Should America Bid Farewell to Exceptional Freedom?

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Exceptional Freedom?

Is that like Super duper mega colossal Freedom?

He's talking about the freedom we've been steadily losing due to people like you.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Exceptional FREEDOM?

The Bush-Cheney regime exhibited such extreme modes of governance in its embrace of an imperial presidency, its violation of domestic and international law, and its disdain for human rights and democratic values that it was hard to view such anti-democratic policies as part of a pervasive shift towards a hidden order of authoritarian politics, which historically has existed at the margins of American society. How else to label such a government other than shockingly and uniquely extremist, given its political legacy that included the rise of the security and torture state; the creation of legal illegalities in which civil liberties were trampled; the launching of an unjust war in Iraq legitimated through official lies; the passing of legislative policies that drained the federal surplus by giving away more than a trillion dollars in tax cuts to the rich; the enactment of a shameful policy of preemptive war; the endorsement of an inflated military budget at the expense of much-needed social programs; the selling off of as many government functions as possible to corporate interests; the resurrection of an imperial presidency; an incessant attack against unions; support for a muzzled and increasingly corporate-controlled media; government production of fake news reports to gain consent for regressive policies; use of an Orwellian vocabulary for disguising monstrous acts such as torture ("enhanced interrogation techniques"); furtherance of a racist campaign of legal harassment and incarceration of Arabs, Muslims and immigrants; advancement of a prison binge through a repressive policy of criminalization; establishment of an unregulated and ultimately devastating form of casino capitalism; the arrogant celebration and support for the interests and values of big business at the expense of citizens and the common good, and the dismantling of social services and social safety nets as part of a larger campaign of ushering in the corporate state and the reign of finance capital.

The fact that you think the vanishing of Exceptional Freedom in this country started with Bush (or Obama for some of the others) is a picturesque example of how it's been allowed to happen. The nibbling away at freedom in this country began long before the 21st century.

 

[rightwinger]

Exceptional Freedom?

Is that like Super duper mega colossal Freedom?

He's talking about the freedom we've been steadily losing due to people like you.

You seem like a young guy..

Which freedoms have you lost that you used to enjoy?

 

[rightwinger]

The fact that you think the vanishing of Exceptional Freedom in this country started with Bush (or Obama for some of the others) is a picturesque example of how it's been allowed to happen. The nibbling away at freedom in this country began long before the 21st century.

You need to study the freedoms available in the 19th and 20th centuries. You would not be so ready to return to them

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's not surprising that someone who is Exceptionally Stupid would fail to GROK the Exceptional Freedom that Americans have experienced. It is unusual in human history for average people to be as free as we once were; and it's a shame to see our government actively destroying that freedom via abuse of power.

Both parties have been responsible since 1980 for the tightening down of personal liberties and freedom of movement. However personal freedom has been expanded far beyond the WASP hegemony that controlled the country through the early 1960s. That is a good thing.

 

[boedicca]

The freedom to determine my own health. The freedom to build. The freedom to choose who to work for. The freedom over intrusive government. The freedom to determine my own destiny.

The lefties in this thread do not Grok freedom. They think it is the condition of avoiding all individual responsibility and being subservient to The State.

"Freedom's Just Another Word For Letting The State Choose."

 

[rightwinger]

The freedom to determine my own health. The freedom to build. The freedom to choose who to work for. The freedom over intrusive government. The freedom to determine my own destiny.

The lefties in this thread do not Grok freedom. They think it is the condition of avoiding all individual responsibility and being subservient to The State.

"Freedom's Just Another Word For Letting The State Choose."

Other than vague bullshit, you still have not identified a single freedom that has been lost.

Freedom to build?

Freedom to choose who to work for?


Are you guys really that lame?

 

[Immanuel]

The freedom to determine my own health. The freedom to build. The freedom to choose who to work for. The freedom over intrusive government. The freedom to determine my own destiny.

The lefties in this thread do not Grok freedom. They think it is the condition of avoiding all individual responsibility and being subservient to The State.

"Freedom's Just Another Word For Letting The State Choose."

Other than vague bullshit, you still have not identified a single freedom that has been lost.

Freedom to build?

Freedom to choose who to work for?


Are you guys really that lame?

That argument is not any different than the one used by real rightwingers when I used to say that the Patriot Act threatened our freedoms. Every time I would say that some kook would say, "what freedoms have you lost?". I'm sorry, maybe people don't understand, The Patriot Act threatened my freedom and so does HCR. It is a threat to freedom. It is a threat to my right to make a choice. I'm sure you have heard of the "freedom to choose" right? Isn't that the freedom that pro-choice people shout about all the time?

Well, I no longer have that right in regards to my health care. In four years I will have to choose a government puppet that promises to pay what the government says it can pay in regards to my health care. I won't be able to choose the plan that is best for me. I will have to take what the government is willing to give me. That is just one freedom that I lost two weeks ago when Obama flashed both his smile and his pen.

I won't be able to choose the most cost effective plan either, because all premiums will be regulated by the government which means Health Insurance companies won't be able to offer me a lower premium than the other guy. Where's my choice?

Immie

 

[boedicca]

Freedom to not buy health care is a pretty obvious one.

 

[rightwinger]

Freedom to not buy health care is a pretty obvious one.

Do you currently have Health insurance?

 

[boedicca]

Do you read English?

 

[rightwinger]

Do you read English?

Do you currently have Healthcare Insurance?

Yes or No

 

[boedicca]

Non sequitur.

Please explain how forcing someone to purchase a service or product against his will does not violate his freedom.

 

[rightwinger]

Non sequitur.

Please explain how forcing someone to purchase a service or product against his will does not violate his freedom.

i assume your dodging is an admission that you do

So explain what freedom you have lost?

 

[Immanuel]

Non sequitur.

Please explain how forcing someone to purchase a service or product against his will does not violate his freedom.

i assume your dodging is an admission that you do

Please explain what difference it makes.

I do not currently have health insurance. My right to not purchase health insurance in the future is threatened.

However, I would rather be insured and when things in my life change, that too will change. That does not change the fact however, that my right to choose not to purchase health insurance is threatened.

Immie

 

[boedicca]

So explain what freedom you have lost?

I have lost the freedom to choose for myself.

What don't you understand about that?

 

[rightwinger]

Non sequitur.

Please explain how forcing someone to purchase a service or product against his will does not violate his freedom.

i assume your dodging is an admission that you do

Please explain what difference it makes.

I do not currently have health insurance. My right to not purchase health insurance in the future is threatened.

However, I would rather be insured and when things in my life change, that too will change. That does not change the fact however, that my right to choose not to purchase health insurance is threatened.

Immie

Please explain why you would not have health insurance and what your current plans are if you become seriously ill or injured. Don't you think unemployed people should have coverage?

 

[boedicca]

Health Insurance is not Health Care.

 

[rightwinger]

Health Insurance is not Health Care.

Do you currently have insurance and why?

 

[boedicca]

Irrelevant.

We are discussing the freedom to not purchase vs. being coerced by the government to buy something against one's will.