Settlements only "illegal" for Jews

[Indeependent]

Well..again...why do we seeJewish outpostsand settlements being built but but no Arab ones?

I'm going to attempt to answer this in all seriousness. It oddly relates to the thread about whether Palestinians are a "real people".

See, why do Jews move into Judea and Samaria? It is because it is an integral part of the Jewish homeland. It is part of Jewish history. It is part of the Jewish people asserting their self-determination in the place that they consider their home. There are deep ties between the Jewish people and this place. And the land is empty and waiting for them.

So, why don't Arab Israelis move out into Judea and Samaria to create outposts in the middle of nowhere? I'm going to argue it is because they DON'T have that historical connection to that land through thousands of years of history. There is nothing about a specific, bare piece of land in Judea that is special to them.

And this is where I think you are wrong...or...maybe you are making assumptions about a people because they do not share your history?

I agree - Judea and Samaria (or the West Bank) is an integral part of Jewish history. No argument from me. I agree there are deep ties. I wouldn't argue that.

Where I disagree is this assumption that there are no deep ties of place for the Palestinian (or Arab) residents. That's it is only a piece of land. In fact - that argument could be made for ANY group of people if you wanted. It's only a piece of land. What makes it special? A history.

There are people who have farmed the same piece of land in America, for several centuries - the same families. They have ties to that land. It is not just a piece of land. Multiply that by many centuries of investment, of families, of traditions -weddings, funerals, children, village life and you have ties every bit as strong as those of the Jewish people even if it isn't the same. The land isn't "empty" - it's inhabited, whether by agricultural people, or as part of a nomadic people's traditional wandering territory (think of the Plains Indians).

There is a kind of arrogance in the assumption that the land is just waiting for them to return...that it has no ties to those living there and they have no ties to it. It smacks of "manifest destiny" in my opinion.

You can argue all you want that Israel is "winning" and therefore has the power to make these types of decisions. But, go back and think about WHY Israel has managed to get to this place. It is because they are INVESTED in this land that Arabs are just not.

Sure, individual Arabs and Arab families are invested in particular plots of land and particular cities where their families may have come from -- but they are not invested in the place as a WHOLE.

They are invested in it every bit as much....but not as a nation but as residents, many residents and as residents who have become a people because of this.

Arabs and Jews in Israel self-select. And they do so based on their own needs and desires. There is no desire for Arab Israelis to go live in outposts in Area C.

This is what flacaltenn has been trying to tell you.

Also, the Arab Palestinians would probably lynch them. Just saying.

How do you know this? They are over crowded. They are frequently unable to get permits for expansion. How do you know they don't desire to live in Area C?

Excellent...I await your asking all the Arabs to return all the possessions and bank accounts they took away from millions of Jews in the last 100 years when the Jews were forcibly kicked out.

The many civilized Arabs living in Israel help the IDF prevent terrorist attacks on a daily basis.

Sure they should. And the Jews can return to the Palestinians everything they took when they forceable expelled them.

Why not?

Israel is more than happy to pay them for their huts and return them to Jordan.

 

[Indeependent]

Well..again...why do we seeJewish outpostsand settlements being built but but no Arab ones?

I'm going to attempt to answer this in all seriousness. It oddly relates to the thread about whether Palestinians are a "real people".

See, why do Jews move into Judea and Samaria? It is because it is an integral part of the Jewish homeland. It is part of Jewish history. It is part of the Jewish people asserting their self-determination in the place that they consider their home. There are deep ties between the Jewish people and this place. And the land is empty and waiting for them.

So, why don't Arab Israelis move out into Judea and Samaria to create outposts in the middle of nowhere? I'm going to argue it is because they DON'T have that historical connection to that land through thousands of years of history. There is nothing about a specific, bare piece of land in Judea that is special to them.

And this is where I think you are wrong...or...maybe you are making assumptions about a people because they do not share your history?

I agree - Judea and Samaria (or the West Bank) is an integral part of Jewish history. No argument from me. I agree there are deep ties. I wouldn't argue that.

Where I disagree is this assumption that there are no deep ties of place for the Palestinian (or Arab) residents. That's it is only a piece of land. In fact - that argument could be made for ANY group of people if you wanted. It's only a piece of land. What makes it special? A history.

There are people who have farmed the same piece of land in America, for several centuries - the same families. They have ties to that land. It is not just a piece of land. Multiply that by many centuries of investment, of families, of traditions -weddings, funerals, children, village life and you have ties every bit as strong as those of the Jewish people even if it isn't the same. The land isn't "empty" - it's inhabited, whether by agricultural people, or as part of a nomadic people's traditional wandering territory (think of the Plains Indians).

There is a kind of arrogance in the assumption that the land is just waiting for them to return...that it has no ties to those living there and they have no ties to it. It smacks of "manifest destiny" in my opinion.

You can argue all you want that Israel is "winning" and therefore has the power to make these types of decisions. But, go back and think about WHY Israel has managed to get to this place. It is because they are INVESTED in this land that Arabs are just not.

Sure, individual Arabs and Arab families are invested in particular plots of land and particular cities where their families may have come from -- but they are not invested in the place as a WHOLE.

They are invested in it every bit as much....but not as a nation but as residents, many residents and as residents who have become a people because of this.

Arabs and Jews in Israel self-select. And they do so based on their own needs and desires. There is no desire for Arab Israelis to go live in outposts in Area C.

This is what flacaltenn has been trying to tell you.

Also, the Arab Palestinians would probably lynch them. Just saying.

How do you know this? They are over crowded. They are frequently unable to get permits for expansion. How do you know they don't desire to live in Area C?

Excellent...I await your asking all the Arabs to return all the possessions and bank accounts they took away from millions of Jews in the last 100 years when the Jews were forcibly kicked out.

The many civilized Arabs living in Israel help the IDF prevent terrorist attacks on a daily basis.

Sure they should. And the Jews can return to the Palestinians everything they took when they forceable expelled them.

Why not?

I forgot!
Israel did that with Gaza and...

 

[Shusha]

IT IS MY OPINION. MY OPINION is that Jews SHOULD be able to live where they want! It is NOT a statement that they CAN. BUT THAT THEY SHOULD.

Cool. Thanks for the clarification.

I can only respond to what you actually type, not what you are thinking.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

In 1947 the Jews took a desert and converted it into a thriving country and now the Islamists want it back? How convenient. As soon as the US gives Cali back to Mexico, the Jews will give Israel back to the terrorists.

 

[Coyote]

And this is where I think you are wrong...or...maybe you are making assumptions about a people because they do not share your history?

I'm not making assumptions about people. I'm pointing out the obvious about the people in question.

The land isn't "empty"

Isn't it?

It isn't empty if people live there. Just as America wasn't empty.

There is a kind of arrogance in the assumption that the land is just waiting for them to return...

You mean the same kind of arrogance which assumes that "nomadic people's traditional wandering territory" somehow trumps "Jewish people's traditional territory"?

Did anyone say that the nomadic people's traditional territory trumped Jewish people's traditional territory?

Why no.

But it's arrogant to assume that somehow, that territory doesn't mean anything to any others.

They are invested in it every bit as much....but not as a nation but as residents...

Yes. Thank you. Exactly.

How do you know this?

Well, I think its because I've done more research on the subject than you have.

Then provide some links and information to support it.

They are over crowded. They are frequently unable to get permits for expansion.

You are generalizing. Who is over-crowded? Who is unable to get permits for expansion? You are conflating so many different things here its hard to know where to start.

Since this is not a new discussion and in fact been discussed ad nauseam, I didn't think I needed to be overly expansive on it. Arab Israeli's.

How do you know they don't desire to live in Area C?

Now, now. I didn't say that. I said they didn't start outposts. How do I know? My research can't turn up a single Arab Israeli outpost. Maybe we can ask rylah . But I just don't see any evidence that its a thing. Now if Arab Israelis DID start outposts all the time, with all the people jumping on how evil Israel is, I'm pretty sure I could find it. But nope.

Gee...maybe there isn't a single Arab outpost because they can't get permits to start new settlements.

 

[Coyote]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

well at least you're honest about it.

 

[Shusha]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

 

[Coyote]

IT IS MY OPINION. MY OPINION is that Jews SHOULD be able to live where they want! It is NOT a statement that they CAN. BUT THAT THEY SHOULD.

Cool. Thanks for the clarification.

I can only respond to what you actually type, not what you are thinking.

Sigh.

Or you could ask for clarification.

 

[Shusha]

Since this is not a new discussion and in fact been discussed ad nauseam, I didn't think I needed to be overly expansive on it. Arab Israeli's.

On the contrary, we should discuss it. You are over-generalizing and thus painting things with a broad brush. Be specific.

WHERE are Arab Israelis overcrowded? WHERE are Arab Israelis unable to get building permits?

Jerusalem? Nablus? Tel Aviv? Hebron? Where?

What are the conditions which allow or prevent expansion in any of these cities? Who is illegally collecting ethnic or religious data on these people and thus refusing building permits based on ethnicity or religion?

 

[Coyote]

Since this is not a new discussion and in fact been discussed ad nauseam, I didn't think I needed to be overly expansive on it. Arab Israeli's.

On the contrary, we should discuss it. You are over-generalizing and thus painting things with a broad brush. Be specific.

WHERE are Arab Israelis overcrowded? WHERE are Arab Israelis unable to get building permits?

Jerusalem? Nablus? Tel Aviv? Hebron? Where?

What are the conditions which allow or prevent expansion in any of these cities? Who is illegally collecting ethnic or religious data on these people and thus refusing building permits based on ethnicity or religion?

That is a whole topic in itself.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

well at least you're honest about it.

You’re such an immature person. At least you admit the Islamists are cowards. No wonder you identify with them.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

“Palestinians” aren’t happy. Why don’t they move? Real Estate in Syria is a bargain these days...

 

[Denizen]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

“Palestinians” aren’t happy. Why don’t they move? Real Estate in Syria is a bargain these days...

Land in your neighborhood is cheaper.

 

[Coyote]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

“Palestinians” aren’t happy. Why don’t they move? Real Estate in Syria is a bargain these days...

Why should they move from their homeland?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

“Palestinians” aren’t happy. Why don’t they move? Real Estate in Syria is a bargain these days...

Land in your neighborhood is cheaper.

In Boston? Really?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

“Palestinians” aren’t happy. Why don’t they move? Real Estate in Syria is a bargain these days...

Why should they move from their homeland?

Because they are unhappy there. Many moved from their homelands to come to America and to other countries. Including my parents. Their homeland is run by corrupt terror regimes. Do I really have to explain this to you? My goodness. The Irish here don’t pine to return to Ireland and the Italians to Italy. “Palestinians” have many mostly Islamist countries to move to. Good luck.

 

[Coyote]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

“Palestinians” aren’t happy. Why don’t they move? Real Estate in Syria is a bargain these days...

Why should they move from their homeland?

Because they are unhappy there. Many moved from their homelands to come to America and to other countries. Including my parents. Their homeland is run by corrupt terror regimes. Do I really have to explain this to you? My goodness. The Irish here don’t pine to return to Ireland and the Italians to Italy. “Palestinians” have many mostly Islamist countries to move to. Good luck.

Well then why don't the Jews who are unhappy with the Palestinians leave the occupied territories??

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Who cares. Conquest is what matters otherwise New York would be controlled by Native Americans. Jews conquered their ancient homeland. Islamists outnumber them 1000 to 1 have em come and take it. I welcome the confrontation. Let’s see what happens.

Gaza is a pain in the ass. But its no threat. An independent West Bank would be no different (as long as Israel controls the Jordan valley.)

“Palestinians” aren’t happy. Why don’t they move? Real Estate in Syria is a bargain these days...

Why should they move from their homeland?

Because they are unhappy there. Many moved from their homelands to come to America and to other countries. Including my parents. Their homeland is run by corrupt terror regimes. Do I really have to explain this to you? My goodness. The Irish here don’t pine to return to Ireland and the Italians to Italy. “Palestinians” have many mostly Islamist countries to move to. Good luck.

Well then why don't the Jews who are unhappy with the Palestinians leave the occupied territories??

Different unhappiness. Like asking why people in Germany in the 30s didn’t leave as they hated Jews. Germans were the majority. Stop using your childish emojis. Grow up.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT about to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT about to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

You said in your post #18:

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

That statement is not true. It is a lie. Therefore, I agree with Dogmaphobe.

The privilege you need to check is the one which assumes that everyone experiences the world the way you do. And that your "feelings" of fairness somehow magically keep people like me and Dogmaphobe from experiencing discrimination based on our ethnicity or religious faith or places where we work.

IT IS MY OPINION. MY OPINION is that Jews SHOULD be able to live where they want! It is NOT a statement that they CAN. BUT THAT THEY SHOULD. It relates to my statements on refugees.

I do not and have never "magically" thought you, or blacks or Muslims or women do not experience discrimination. So check your own privilege. And don't assume Dogmaphobe is Jewish. He isn't. He's a white male that has issues with blacks and Muslims, he has his own "privilege" problems to deal with.

I am not the subject of this thread, but I might mention that ANY parent whose child was at the receiving end of racial abuse would want to protect them and hope the school system would do something about it. when posters say they are happy that my child was a victim of racial attacks, ANY poster would object. you sided with the poster who said he was glad my child was attacked, and so we disagree on the subject of my child and whether he deserves to be physically attacked for his skin color.

since you brought it up and all.


Now, as to the subject of this thread, which certainly isn't me, you support the dispersal of Arabs into Europe even as many of their countries do not even allow Jews to enter. for all your posturing about prejudice, you certainly do ignore the extremely high level of prejudice arising from your people.