Settlements only "illegal" for Jews

[Coyote]

If you provide specific and equivalent examples of a government sponsoring settlement activity of one ethnic group into disputed territory, I will condemn it the same as I do this.

 

[Coyote]

Don't forget about the incredible chutzpah/nerve of these Jews to actually want to live in their historical and ancestral homeland! You would think that something as important as the Bible came from there, considering the fuss they make over it! What, the Bible DID come from there? Nevermind (said in a Gilda Radnor voice)!

Absolutely. And this is part of the hypocrisy. Settlers from Armenia have every right to live in the territory of another State because (their words) “it is an integral part of the Armenian homeland”.

Link?

It’s in the OP.

Unfortunately I must have read my quota of free WSJ articles because I hit a paywall.

You'll have to take my word for it then.

But, in principle, if someone claims that "settlements are illegal", don't you think that someone should apply it everywhere and not only to Jews?

I do. And I stand by it.

 

[Shusha]

Of course...the national law specifically endorsed
S Jewish settlement activity. That kind of leaves non-JewishIsraeli’s in the cold.

If that is the principle you are upholding, shouldn't ALL settlement activity be illegal, and not just Jewish settlement?

If it is a viable argument that "it is an integral part of their homeland", shouldn't that apply to Jews as well?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Yes, exactly...but not only that. It's the height of irony that Jews these days are allowed to live in NY or Paris or Sydney, but not in Hebron or Bethlehem or Shechem--where Judaism was first born, and which is the land of Judea.

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

 

[Shusha]

Absolutely. And this is part of the hypocrisy. Settlers from Armenia have every right to live in the territory of another State because (their words) “it is an integral part of the Armenian homeland”.

Link?

It’s in the OP.

Unfortunately I must have read my quota of free WSJ articles because I hit a paywall.

You'll have to take my word for it then.

But, in principle, if someone claims that "settlements are illegal", don't you think that someone should apply it everywhere and not only to Jews?

I do. And I stand by it.

Great!

So what should be done with all these dozens of countries with illegal settlements?

 

[Coyote]

My opinion of “settlement” activity is this. The Soviets practiced it. They deliberately moved ethnic Russians into regions dominated by non-Russian ethnic groups to dilute the regional demographics and consolidate their control of the territory.

It was a government sponsored settlement program benefiting one ethnic group only, for political purposes.

This an example of another nation conducting a settlement program.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, exactly...but not only that. It's the height of irony that Jews these days are allowed to live in NY or Paris or Sydney, but not in Hebron or Bethlehem or Shechem--where Judaism was first born, and which is the land of Judea.

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Who are “my people”?

Second, I was asked my opinion (or did you miss that)? In my opinion, Jews can live where ever they want.

 

[Coyote]

Link?

It’s in the OP.

Unfortunately I must have read my quota of free WSJ articles because I hit a paywall.

You'll have to take my word for it then.

But, in principle, if someone claims that "settlements are illegal", don't you think that someone should apply it everywhere and not only to Jews?

I do. And I stand by it.

Great!

So what should be done with all these dozens of countries with illegal settlements?

If they are truly equivalent (and the local population is objecting)....a BDS movement.

P.S. what dozens of countries? There is way too little information.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Yes, exactly...but not only that. It's the height of irony that Jews these days are allowed to live in NY or Paris or Sydney, but not in Hebron or Bethlehem or Shechem--where Judaism was first born, and which is the land of Judea.

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Who are “my people”?

Second, I was asked my opinion (or did you miss that)? In my opinion, Jews can live where ever they want.

Your people are those you always promote over all others.

They currently have 16 countries where Jews are not allowed to even enter.

 

[Shusha]

So..what about the incredible nerve and chutzpah of Palestinians that want to live in their homeland

Wait, what?! Who is suggesting that Palestinians can't live in their homeland? Oh, wait. No one.

See here's how its working so far:

Israelis are allowed to live parts of their homeland.
Arab Palestinians are allowed to live in parts of their homeland.

so far so good...

Its perfectly legal for Arabs to live in Israel. (In fact, anything less would be apartheid or a slow-genocide.)

It is illegal for Jews to live in Arab Palestine.

Hmmmm. See the problem?

 

[Coyote]

Yes, exactly...but not only that. It's the height of irony that Jews these days are allowed to live in NY or Paris or Sydney, but not in Hebron or Bethlehem or Shechem--where Judaism was first born, and which is the land of Judea.

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Who are “my people”?

Second, I was asked my opinion (or did you miss that)? In my opinion, Jews can live where ever they want.

Your people are those you always promote over all others.

They currently have 16 countries where Jews are not allowed to even enter.

Again, who are “my people”?

Second, I do not support the exclusion of ANY people based on religion, race, or ethnicity.

Do you?

 

[Indeependent]

If settlements in AREA C are legal they should "legal" for all Israelis and not just Jews to initiate, get permits for and receive infrastructure support. A lot of inequality there.

I know of no other country with a similar policy.

And yet not a peep out of you that 5 million Jordanians living under Israeli control, which includes Arabs in the Knesset , are not allowed into Jordan.

I don't get this. What are you trying to say?

He wants to expel Palestinians to Jordan.

That’s because they are Jordanians and Jordan doesn’t want them.
Now give some input as to how you see Jordan in light of this.

 

[Shusha]

If you provide specific and equivalent examples of a government sponsoring settlement activity of one ethnic group into disputed territory, I will condemn it the same as I do this.

I did. That is what the thread is about. And the territory is not even disputed. It belongs to another State.

Armenia in Azerbijan. Morocco in Western Sahara. Turkey in Cyprus. Indonesia in East Timor. Russia in Crimea.

Condemn away.

 

[Shusha]

My opinion of “settlement” activity is this. The Soviets practiced it. They deliberately moved ethnic Russians into regions dominated by non-Russian ethnic groups to dilute the regional demographics and consolidate their control of the territory.

It was a government sponsored settlement program benefiting one ethnic group only, for political purposes.

This an example of another nation conducting a settlement program.

But what if that territory is an "integral part of our homeland"? What then?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

What homeland? Who was the President of Palestine in 1946? Who was in the Palestinian Olympic team in 1936? I ll Patiently wait as you sound stupid again. Just admit you do not have a clue about the topic.

You mean the place where they have lived for centuries isn’t their homeland? Wow. I had no idea that ONLY the Jews could claim ancestry there.

I never heard of a Basque Olympic team....have you? But sure enough there is a Basque homeland. Imagine that

Who was their president? Do Tell. Jews aren’t even allowed in the KSA. Don’t hear you complaining. Arabs were conquered. Move on or man up and take your land back. Either way they need to stop their incessant whining. Maybe that’s why you identify with them.

If they are not allowed in the KSA start a thread and I will chime in. Otherwise it sounds like whining to me.

Facts aren’t whining. What you do is. Muslims hate Jews. I am OK with that. Call a spade a spade. Stop dancing around their antisemitism.

I don’t disagree that there are anti-Semitic Muslims or for that matter, anti-Islamic Jews. It is human nature. I don’t even disagree that there is a high degree of antisemitism today in Muslim majority countries. So what is your point?

Do you disagree that the Sun rises in the East? That is how absurd your statement sounds.

 

[Coyote]

So..what about the incredible nerve and chutzpah of Palestinians that want to live in their homeland

Wait, what?! Who is suggesting that Palestinians can't live in their homeland? Oh, wait. No one.

We will have to disagree on that. There are plenty here who feel that way including one recently who specifically claimed it is Egypt as their homeland. So yes, Some ones. Just like the some ones who claim Jews have no right to their homeland. It is not as one sided as you claim.

See here's how its working so far:

Israelis are allowed to live parts of their homeland.
Arab Palestinians are allowed to live in parts of their homeland.

so far so good...

Its perfectly legal for Arabs to live in Israel. (In fact, anything less would be apartheid or a slow-genocide.)

It is illegal for Jews to live in Arab Palestine.

Hmmmm. See the problem?

I see multiple problems.

Jews should be allowed to live in Arab Palestine. Agree?

Arabs should be allowed to live in Israel (Jewish Palestine). Agree?

Then there is the area in betweeen.

Do we agree that all citizens of the nation controlling it should have equal access to living there? They should right? Equal funding, support, infrastructure....yet do they?

The government that controls part of it (Area C) has a policy that de facto preferentially allows its Jewish citizens to create new settlements and that is specifically promoted in it’s national law.

So, can we fault the Arabs for their bigotry? Yes.

Can we fault Israel for it’s bigotry? Yes?

Or we can make excuses by saying the law mandates equality even though it is clearly not enforced in the settlement program or other areas such as absentee land owner laws.

 

[Coyote]

Of course...the national law specifically endorsed
S Jewish settlement activity. That kind of leaves non-JewishIsraeli’s in the cold.

If that is the principle you are upholding, shouldn't ALL settlement activity be illegal, and not just Jewish settlement?

If it is a viable argument that "it is an integral part of their homeland", shouldn't that apply to Jews as well?

It should either all be illegal (including the handful of EU sponsored ones) or all legal. But it isn’t. Israel has only allowed Jews to create new settlements in Area C, unless you can name some Arab Israeli ones, I am not aware of any.

 

[Shusha]

Well..again...why do we seeJewish outpostsand settlements being built but but no Arab ones?

I'm going to attempt to answer this in all seriousness. It oddly relates to the thread about whether Palestinians are a "real people".

See, why do Jews move into Judea and Samaria? It is because it is an integral part of the Jewish homeland. It is part of Jewish history. It is part of the Jewish people asserting their self-determination in the place that they consider their home. There are deep ties between the Jewish people and this place. And the land is empty and waiting for them.

So, why don't Arab Israelis move out into Judea and Samaria to create outposts in the middle of nowhere? I'm going to argue it is because they DON'T have that historical connection to that land through thousands of years of history. There is nothing about a specific, bare piece of land in Judea that is special to them.

You can argue all you want that Israel is "winning" and therefore has the power to make these types of decisions. But, go back and think about WHY Israel has managed to get to this place. It is because they are INVESTED in this land that Arabs are just not.

Sure, individual Arabs and Arab families are invested in particular plots of land and particular cities where their families may have come from -- but they are not invested in the place as a WHOLE.

Arabs and Jews in Israel self-select. And they do so based on their own needs and desires. There is no desire for Arab Israelis to go live in outposts in Area C.

This is what flacaltenn has been trying to tell you.


Also, the Arab Palestinians would probably lynch them. Just saying.

 

[Coyote]

My opinion of “settlement” activity is this. The Soviets practiced it. They deliberately moved ethnic Russians into regions dominated by non-Russian ethnic groups to dilute the regional demographics and consolidate their control of the territory.

It was a government sponsored settlement program benefiting one ethnic group only, for political purposes.

This an example of another nation conducting a settlement program.

But what if that territory is an "integral part of our homeland"? What then?

What if it is an integral part of another’s homeland?

 

[Shusha]

It should either all be illegal or all legal.

Yes! Thank you.

So which is it? Legal or illegal?

THAT right there is the topic of this thread.