Settlements only "illegal" for Jews

[Coyote]

If you provide specific and equivalent examples of a government sponsoring settlement activity of one ethnic group into disputed territory, I will condemn it the same as I do this.

I did. That is what the thread is about. And the territory is not even disputed. It belongs to another State.

Armenia in Azerbijan. Morocco in Western Sahara. Turkey in Cyprus. Indonesia in East Timor. Russia in Crimea.

Condemn away.

Provide some links please, since you are the one making the claims.

Russia in Crimea I absolutely condemn, it is along the same lines I previously mentioned with Russia.

 

[Coyote]

It should either all be illegal or all legal.

Yes! Thank you.

So which is it? Legal or illegal?

THAT right there is the topic of this thread.

My preference is illegal until the dispossession is decided. If Israel wants to put it’s citizens there it needs to man up, annex it, give citizenship to all the residents and be done with it.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, exactly...but not only that. It's the height of irony that Jews these days are allowed to live in NY or Paris or Sydney, but not in Hebron or Bethlehem or Shechem--where Judaism was first born, and which is the land of Judea.

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

I have never said Jews should not be able to live where they wish. Why do you think I am lying?

 

[Coyote]

I don't get this. What are you trying to say?

He wants to expel Palestinians to Jordan.

No such thing as a “Palestinian” they are Egyptians and Jordanians. Learn history.

Coyote gets her “history” from Arab sites.

Coyote lives in a fantasy world.

No she doesn’t.
She gets her news from Arabs.

I am not the topic guys. Get back on topic.

 

[Indeependent]

He wants to expel Palestinians to Jordan.

No such thing as a “Palestinian” they are Egyptians and Jordanians. Learn history.

Coyote gets her “history” from Arab sites.

Coyote lives in a fantasy world.

No she doesn’t.
She gets her news from Arabs.

I am not the topic guys. Get back on topic.

You are the topic as long as you focus on Israel and never mention Jordan.
Jordan is paying Israel to keep the Jordanians out and the Jews are the bad guys!

 

[Coyote]

No such thing as a “Palestinian” they are Egyptians and Jordanians. Learn history.

Coyote gets her “history” from Arab sites.

Coyote lives in a fantasy world.

No she doesn’t.
She gets her news from Arabs.

I am not the topic guys. Get back on topic.

You are the topic as long as you focus on Israel and never mention Jordan.
Jordan is paying Israel to keep the Jordanians out and the Jews are the bad guys!

What is the topic in the OP? It isn't Jordan. Review it.

 

[Shusha]

Yes, exactly...but not only that. It's the height of irony that Jews these days are allowed to live in NY or Paris or Sydney, but not in Hebron or Bethlehem or Shechem--where Judaism was first born, and which is the land of Judea.

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT allowed to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, exactly...but not only that. It's the height of irony that Jews these days are allowed to live in NY or Paris or Sydney, but not in Hebron or Bethlehem or Shechem--where Judaism was first born, and which is the land of Judea.

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT about to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

 

[Indeependent]

Coyote gets her “history” from Arab sites.

Coyote lives in a fantasy world.

No she doesn’t.
She gets her news from Arabs.

I am not the topic guys. Get back on topic.

You are the topic as long as you focus on Israel and never mention Jordan.
Jordan is paying Israel to keep the Jordanians out and the Jews are the bad guys!

What is the topic in the OP? It isn't Jordan. Review it.

It is partially Jordan because Jordan won’t take their citizens back.
Many of them want to live in Jordan.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

He wants to expel Palestinians to Jordan.

No such thing as a “Palestinian” they are Egyptians and Jordanians. Learn history.

Coyote gets her “history” from Arab sites.

Coyote lives in a fantasy world.

No she doesn’t.
She gets her news from Arabs.

I am not the topic guys. Get back on topic.

As I said no such thing as “Palestinians”.

 

[Shusha]

If you provide specific and equivalent examples of a government sponsoring settlement activity of one ethnic group into disputed territory, I will condemn it the same as I do this.

I did. That is what the thread is about. And the territory is not even disputed. It belongs to another State.

Armenia in Azerbijan. Morocco in Western Sahara. Turkey in Cyprus. Indonesia in East Timor. Russia in Crimea.

Condemn away.

Provide some links please, since you are the one making the claims.

Russia in Crimea I absolutely condemn, it is along the same lines I previously mentioned with Russia.

Or you could do some research on your own. But start here. (Not the first time I've posted this.)

If you are paywalled on WSJ, I'd suggest a simple google search on "armenia azerbaijan disputed territory".

Or you could look up the Armenian National Committee of America's website.

Options for learning are pretty broad.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Coyote lives in a fantasy world.

No she doesn’t.
She gets her news from Arabs.

I am not the topic guys. Get back on topic.

You are the topic as long as you focus on Israel and never mention Jordan.
Jordan is paying Israel to keep the Jordanians out and the Jews are the bad guys!

What is the topic in the OP? It isn't Jordan. Review it.

It is partially Jordan because Jordan won’t take their citizens back.
Many of them want to live in Jordan.

Truth. Trans Jordan

 

[Coyote]

Well..again...why do we seeJewish outpostsand settlements being built but but no Arab ones?

I'm going to attempt to answer this in all seriousness. It oddly relates to the thread about whether Palestinians are a "real people".

See, why do Jews move into Judea and Samaria? It is because it is an integral part of the Jewish homeland. It is part of Jewish history. It is part of the Jewish people asserting their self-determination in the place that they consider their home. There are deep ties between the Jewish people and this place. And the land is empty and waiting for them.

So, why don't Arab Israelis move out into Judea and Samaria to create outposts in the middle of nowhere? I'm going to argue it is because they DON'T have that historical connection to that land through thousands of years of history. There is nothing about a specific, bare piece of land in Judea that is special to them.

And this is where I think you are wrong...or...maybe you are making assumptions about a people because they do not share your history?

I agree - Judea and Samaria (or the West Bank) is an integral part of Jewish history. No argument from me. I agree there are deep ties. I wouldn't argue that.

Where I disagree is this assumption that there are no deep ties of place for the Palestinian (or Arab) residents. That's it is only a piece of land. In fact - that argument could be made for ANY group of people if you wanted. It's only a piece of land. What makes it special? A history.

There are people who have farmed the same piece of land in America, for several centuries - the same families. They have ties to that land. It is not just a piece of land. Multiply that by many centuries of investment, of families, of traditions -weddings, funerals, children, village life and you have ties every bit as strong as those of the Jewish people even if it isn't the same. The land isn't "empty" - it's inhabited, whether by agricultural people, or as part of a nomadic people's traditional wandering territory (think of the Plains Indians).

There is a kind of arrogance in the assumption that the land is just waiting for them to return...that it has no ties to those living there and they have no ties to it. It smacks of "manifest destiny" in my opinion.

You can argue all you want that Israel is "winning" and therefore has the power to make these types of decisions. But, go back and think about WHY Israel has managed to get to this place. It is because they are INVESTED in this land that Arabs are just not.

Sure, individual Arabs and Arab families are invested in particular plots of land and particular cities where their families may have come from -- but they are not invested in the place as a WHOLE.

They are invested in it every bit as much....but not as a nation but as residents, many residents and as residents who have become a people because of this.

Arabs and Jews in Israel self-select. And they do so based on their own needs and desires. There is no desire for Arab Israelis to go live in outposts in Area C.

This is what flacaltenn has been trying to tell you.

Also, the Arab Palestinians would probably lynch them. Just saying.

How do you know this? They are over crowded. They are frequently unable to get permits for expansion. How do you know they don't desire to live in Area C?

 

[Coyote]

If you provide specific and equivalent examples of a government sponsoring settlement activity of one ethnic group into disputed territory, I will condemn it the same as I do this.

I did. That is what the thread is about. And the territory is not even disputed. It belongs to another State.

Armenia in Azerbijan. Morocco in Western Sahara. Turkey in Cyprus. Indonesia in East Timor. Russia in Crimea.

Condemn away.

Provide some links please, since you are the one making the claims.

Russia in Crimea I absolutely condemn, it is along the same lines I previously mentioned with Russia.

Or you could do some research on your own. But start here. (Not the first time I've posted this.)



If you are paywalled on WSJ, I'd suggest a simple google search on "armenia azerbaijan disputed territory".

Or you could look up the Armenian National Committee of America's website.

Options for learning are pretty broad.

When someone makes claims, it is up to them to support it. Certainly that is what is demanded of me when I make claims. I do not see why other should be any different with others.

 

[Shusha]

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT about to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

Not to mention how the same posters supporting Judenrein are the first to demand all western countries take in unlimited numbers of Muslims who want nothing but to change their culture.

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT about to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

You said in your post #18:

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

That statement is not true. It is a lie. Therefore, I agree with Dogmaphobe.

The privilege you need to check is the one which assumes that everyone experiences the world the way you do. And that your "feelings" of fairness somehow magically keep people like me and Dogmaphobe from experiencing discrimination based on our ethnicity or religious faith or places where we work.

 

[Indeependent]

Well..again...why do we seeJewish outpostsand settlements being built but but no Arab ones?

I'm going to attempt to answer this in all seriousness. It oddly relates to the thread about whether Palestinians are a "real people".

See, why do Jews move into Judea and Samaria? It is because it is an integral part of the Jewish homeland. It is part of Jewish history. It is part of the Jewish people asserting their self-determination in the place that they consider their home. There are deep ties between the Jewish people and this place. And the land is empty and waiting for them.

So, why don't Arab Israelis move out into Judea and Samaria to create outposts in the middle of nowhere? I'm going to argue it is because they DON'T have that historical connection to that land through thousands of years of history. There is nothing about a specific, bare piece of land in Judea that is special to them.

And this is where I think you are wrong...or...maybe you are making assumptions about a people because they do not share your history?

I agree - Judea and Samaria (or the West Bank) is an integral part of Jewish history. No argument from me. I agree there are deep ties. I wouldn't argue that.

Where I disagree is this assumption that there are no deep ties of place for the Palestinian (or Arab) residents. That's it is only a piece of land. In fact - that argument could be made for ANY group of people if you wanted. It's only a piece of land. What makes it special? A history.

There are people who have farmed the same piece of land in America, for several centuries - the same families. They have ties to that land. It is not just a piece of land. Multiply that by many centuries of investment, of families, of traditions -weddings, funerals, children, village life and you have ties every bit as strong as those of the Jewish people even if it isn't the same. The land isn't "empty" - it's inhabited, whether by agricultural people, or as part of a nomadic people's traditional wandering territory (think of the Plains Indians).

There is a kind of arrogance in the assumption that the land is just waiting for them to return...that it has no ties to those living there and they have no ties to it. It smacks of "manifest destiny" in my opinion.

You can argue all you want that Israel is "winning" and therefore has the power to make these types of decisions. But, go back and think about WHY Israel has managed to get to this place. It is because they are INVESTED in this land that Arabs are just not.

Sure, individual Arabs and Arab families are invested in particular plots of land and particular cities where their families may have come from -- but they are not invested in the place as a WHOLE.

They are invested in it every bit as much....but not as a nation but as residents, many residents and as residents who have become a people because of this.

Arabs and Jews in Israel self-select. And they do so based on their own needs and desires. There is no desire for Arab Israelis to go live in outposts in Area C.

This is what flacaltenn has been trying to tell you.

Also, the Arab Palestinians would probably lynch them. Just saying.

How do you know this? They are over crowded. They are frequently unable to get permits for expansion. How do you know they don't desire to live in Area C?

Excellent...I await your asking all the Arabs to return all the possessions and bank accounts they took away from millions of Jews in the last 100 years when the Jews were forcibly kicked out.

The many civilized Arabs living in Israel help the IDF prevent terrorist attacks on a daily basis.

 

[Coyote]

If you provide specific and equivalent examples of a government sponsoring settlement activity of one ethnic group into disputed territory, I will condemn it the same as I do this.

I did. That is what the thread is about. And the territory is not even disputed. It belongs to another State.

Armenia in Azerbijan. Morocco in Western Sahara. Turkey in Cyprus. Indonesia in East Timor. Russia in Crimea.

Condemn away.

Provide some links please, since you are the one making the claims.

Russia in Crimea I absolutely condemn, it is along the same lines I previously mentioned with Russia.

Or you could do some research on your own. But start here. (Not the first time I've posted this.)

If you are paywalled on WSJ, I'd suggest a simple google search on "armenia azerbaijan disputed territory".

Or you could look up the Armenian National Committee of America's website.

Options for learning are pretty broad.

I will start with the link you provided. Thank you.

 

[Coyote]

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT about to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

I get that you hate Muslims so much you can’t tolerate the fact that we might take in Muslim refugees who have suffered tremendously under our war with Iraq, the Syrian Civil War, and the horrors of Isis, or the Rohinga of Myanmar who have been subject to genocide, brutality, child rape and more at the hands of the Bhuddist majority. I don’t know about you and those who agree with you, but I don’t CARE what religion refugees and immigrants are. I am all to aware of our countries own shameful history in this regard. Are you? Why are you so keen on repeating it?

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

Can you say the same?

No, Jews CAN NOT live wherever they want. Your people make sure of that.


Have you ever considered telling the truth for a change?

Shusha why do you agree with this?

Because its true. Jews are NOT about to live where ever they wish.

Do you have a list of countries to which you are NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL? Because of your religious faith, your ethnicity or because you once visited Israel?

I DO. So do others posting here.

Check your privilege.

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

You said in your post #18:

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

That statement is not true. It is a lie. Therefore, I agree with Dogmaphobe.

The privilege you need to check is the one which assumes that everyone experiences the world the way you do. And that your "feelings" of fairness somehow magically keep people like me and Dogmaphobe from experiencing discrimination based on our ethnicity or religious faith or places where we work.

IT IS MY OPINION. MY OPINION is that Jews SHOULD be able to live where they want! It is NOT a statement that they CAN. BUT THAT THEY SHOULD. It relates to my statements on refugees.

I do not and have never "magically" thought you, or blacks or Muslims or women do not experience discrimination. So check your own privilege. And don't assume Dogmaphobe is Jewish. He isn't. He's a white male that has issues with blacks and Muslims, he has his own "privilege" problems to deal with.

 

[Coyote]

Well..again...why do we seeJewish outpostsand settlements being built but but no Arab ones?

I'm going to attempt to answer this in all seriousness. It oddly relates to the thread about whether Palestinians are a "real people".

See, why do Jews move into Judea and Samaria? It is because it is an integral part of the Jewish homeland. It is part of Jewish history. It is part of the Jewish people asserting their self-determination in the place that they consider their home. There are deep ties between the Jewish people and this place. And the land is empty and waiting for them.

So, why don't Arab Israelis move out into Judea and Samaria to create outposts in the middle of nowhere? I'm going to argue it is because they DON'T have that historical connection to that land through thousands of years of history. There is nothing about a specific, bare piece of land in Judea that is special to them.

And this is where I think you are wrong...or...maybe you are making assumptions about a people because they do not share your history?

I agree - Judea and Samaria (or the West Bank) is an integral part of Jewish history. No argument from me. I agree there are deep ties. I wouldn't argue that.

Where I disagree is this assumption that there are no deep ties of place for the Palestinian (or Arab) residents. That's it is only a piece of land. In fact - that argument could be made for ANY group of people if you wanted. It's only a piece of land. What makes it special? A history.

There are people who have farmed the same piece of land in America, for several centuries - the same families. They have ties to that land. It is not just a piece of land. Multiply that by many centuries of investment, of families, of traditions -weddings, funerals, children, village life and you have ties every bit as strong as those of the Jewish people even if it isn't the same. The land isn't "empty" - it's inhabited, whether by agricultural people, or as part of a nomadic people's traditional wandering territory (think of the Plains Indians).

There is a kind of arrogance in the assumption that the land is just waiting for them to return...that it has no ties to those living there and they have no ties to it. It smacks of "manifest destiny" in my opinion.

You can argue all you want that Israel is "winning" and therefore has the power to make these types of decisions. But, go back and think about WHY Israel has managed to get to this place. It is because they are INVESTED in this land that Arabs are just not.

Sure, individual Arabs and Arab families are invested in particular plots of land and particular cities where their families may have come from -- but they are not invested in the place as a WHOLE.

They are invested in it every bit as much....but not as a nation but as residents, many residents and as residents who have become a people because of this.

Arabs and Jews in Israel self-select. And they do so based on their own needs and desires. There is no desire for Arab Israelis to go live in outposts in Area C.

This is what flacaltenn has been trying to tell you.

Also, the Arab Palestinians would probably lynch them. Just saying.

How do you know this? They are over crowded. They are frequently unable to get permits for expansion. How do you know they don't desire to live in Area C?

Excellent...I await your asking all the Arabs to return all the possessions and bank accounts they took away from millions of Jews in the last 100 years when the Jews were forcibly kicked out.

The many civilized Arabs living in Israel help the IDF prevent terrorist attacks on a daily basis.

Sure they should. And the Jews can return to the Palestinians everything they took when they forceable expelled them.

Why not?

 

[Shusha]

And this is where I think you are wrong...or...maybe you are making assumptions about a people because they do not share your history?

I'm not making assumptions about people. I'm pointing out the obvious about the people in question.

The land isn't "empty"

Isn't it?

There is a kind of arrogance in the assumption that the land is just waiting for them to return...

You mean the same kind of arrogance which assumes that "nomadic people's traditional wandering territory" somehow trumps "Jewish people's traditional territory"?

They are invested in it every bit as much....but not as a nation but as residents...

Yes. Thank you. Exactly.

How do you know this?

Well, I think its because I've done more research on the subject than you have.

They are over crowded. They are frequently unable to get permits for expansion.

You are generalizing. Who is over-crowded? Who is unable to get permits for expansion? You are conflating so many different things here its hard to know where to start.

How do you know they don't desire to live in Area C?

Now, now. I didn't say that. I said they didn't start outposts. How do I know? My research can't turn up a single Arab Israeli outpost. Maybe we can ask rylah . But I just don't see any evidence that its a thing. Now if Arab Israelis DID start outposts all the time, and they were demolished, with all the people jumping on how evil Israel is, I'm pretty sure I could find it. But nope.