Service VS Production

[spectrumc01]

I believe that the major problem with our economy is the fact that we have moved from a production economy to a service economy. A service economy does not create wealth, it only shuffles it around. A production economy creates wealth, and we do not produce as much as we used to. If we look at China, India, South Korea, and Mexico we see economies that are heavy in production. All of our problems are just symptoms of this service vs production condition.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The countries you mention don't have:

Unions
EPA
OSHA
High Corp Taxation

And so on. The playing field isn't anywhere near level.

Could be a coincidence though.

 

[boedicca]

The real problem with our economy is this:

 

[boedicca]

And a subset of The Problem:

 

[spectrumc01]

The countries you mention don't have:

Unions
EPA
OSHA
High Corp Taxation

And so on. The playing field isn't anywhere near level.

Could be a coincidence though.

Check this out for the supposed high Corp taxes.
Index of Economic Freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a list of countries and their unions, India, Mexico, and South Korea are among them.
List of trade unions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Flopper]

I don’t think it is correct to say a service economy does not produce wealth. When we talk about a service economy, there is lot more to it than selling hamburger and cleaning carpets. Producing media, designing and programming computer systems, financial systems, and Internet services are huge industries, generating a lot of wealth. Many companies such as IBM who we think of as a manufacturing company derives most of it’s revenue from services. A country does not have to build widgets to be successful, but whatever it does, it must have a completive advantage and our advantage is not manufacturing.

The countries with largest service economies are also the countries with the most advanced economies and the highest standard of Living.

List of countries by GDP sector composition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think moving to service based economy is the problem. In fact, it is a natural out growth of affluence. The fact that our economy is 70% consumption is a problem.

 

[sparky]

I don't think moving to service based economy is the problem. In fact, it is a natural out growth of affluence. The fact that our economy is 70% consumption is a problem.


eh?........ errruhmmm......... harumph!

 

[Sallow]

The real major problem is this.

The major stake holders in private industry have a stranglehold on the government.

They are creating fake crisises to ram through a very selfish and short sighted agenda.

This is nothing new. But it's amazing how this gets played out over and over again..throughout the centuries.

 

[sparky]

and on that note.....>

Wages are not the problem. America’s failed trade policies that open the borders to a flood of cheap imports and allow companies to seek out the lowest labor costs and most lax regulations possible are.

“Many are quick to blame America’s manufacturing woes on labor and regulation. The fact is, average compensation for an American manufacturing worker, including benefits, is $32/hour. In Germany, the figure is $48/hour,” Scott Paul, executive director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, writes at CNBC.com.

“Yet Germany’s manufacturing base is thriving. Germany has a trade surplus. German unions sit on company boards and make joint decisions about investments and strategy.”

While Germany’s manufacturing sector is thriving because it has a national strategy to maximize the use of the important sector, America’s is declining because of a lack of a plan.

 

[editec]

I believe that the major problem with our economy is the fact that we have moved from a production economy to a service economy. A service economy does not create wealth, it only shuffles it around. A production economy creates wealth, and we do not produce as much as we used to. If we look at China, India, South Korea, and Mexico we see economies that are heavy in production. All of our problems are just symptoms of this service vs production condition.

And this service v production problem stems from what policy?

FREE TRADE.

Dumbest policy this nation ever undertook assuming you still believe that it wasn't planned to bankrupt this nation.

So take your choice...

Either the masters are dumber than bag of bricks or

The masters are crashing the US economy on purpose.

 

[Oddball]

I believe that the major problem with our economy is the fact that we have moved from a production economy to a service economy. A service economy does not create wealth, it only shuffles it around. A production economy creates wealth, and we do not produce as much as we used to. If we look at China, India, South Korea, and Mexico we see economies that are heavy in production. All of our problems are just symptoms of this service vs production condition.

And this service v production problem stems from what policy?

FREE TRADE.

Dumbest policy this nation ever undertook assuming you still believe that it wasn't planned to bankrupt this nation.

So take your choice...

Either the masters are dumber than bag of bricks or

The masters are crashing the US economy on purpose.

Auto mechanics, HVAC techs, medical personnel and IT pros are also amongst these service jobs....Rather well-paying professions to boot.


Speaking of dumber than a bag of bricks.

 

[Flopper]

and on that note.....>

Wages are not the problem. America’s failed trade policies that open the borders to a flood of cheap imports and allow companies to seek out the lowest labor costs and most lax regulations possible are.

“Many are quick to blame America’s manufacturing woes on labor and regulation. The fact is, average compensation for an American manufacturing worker, including benefits, is $32/hour. In Germany, the figure is $48/hour,” Scott Paul, executive director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, writes at CNBC.com.

“Yet Germany’s manufacturing base is thriving. Germany has a trade surplus. German unions sit on company boards and make joint decisions about investments and strategy.”

While Germany’s manufacturing sector is thriving because it has a national strategy to maximize the use of the important sector, America’s is declining because of a lack of a plan.

I agree our trade policies have hurt use badly. Also, outsourcing has closed 50,000 factories in the US. Doors are open to imports into the US but we find the doors slammed in face in so many countries. Laissez-faire capitalism just does not work when dealing with a number of our trading partners. While our government maintains a hands off policy, countries such as China, South Korea, and Japan throw barriers up to protect local industry. China for years have manipulated the currency market to keep the dollar strong and thus insuring inexpensive Chinese goods in the US and expensive American goods in China. France and the EU have pumped millions into Airbus giving them a completive advantage against other manufactures.

American manufacturing exports are getting a boost from the low dollar, but that will not last. I believe high end manufacturing is where we should be heading. We should play to our strengths which are a highly skilled work force and American innovation.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The countries you mention don't have:

Unions
EPA
OSHA
High Corp Taxation

And so on. The playing field isn't anywhere near level.

Could be a coincidence though.

Check this out for the supposed high Corp taxes.
Index of Economic Freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a list of countries and their unions, India, Mexico, and South Korea are among them.
List of trade unions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apples and oranges, straw man argument. And you well know so.

Dishonest discourse.

 

[uscitizen]

Yeah didn't the service thing happen about the same time we went from a creditor nation to a debtor one? In the 80's?

 

[kiwiman127]

The countries you mention don't have:

Unions
EPA
OSHA
High Corp Taxation

And so on. The playing field isn't anywhere near level.

Could be a coincidence though.

And the countries you mention don't have: anyone making a wage that comes close to the average wages in the US. And that in itself is ironic consider US wages (in Real Dollars)have been flat for 30 years for the working class.

 

[editec]

I don’t think it is correct to say a service economy does not produce wealth. When we talk about a service economy, there is lot more to it than selling hamburger and cleaning carpets. Producing media, designing and programming computer systems, financial systems, and Internet services are huge industries, generating a lot of wealth. Many companies such as IBM who we think of as a manufacturing company derives most of it’s revenue from services. A country does not have to build widgets to be successful, but whatever it does, it must have a completive advantage and our advantage is not manufacturing.

I agree with that.

The countries with largest service economies are also the countries with the most advanced economies and the highest standard of Living.

And THAT, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition

List of countries by GDP sector composition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think moving to service based economy is the problem. In fact, it is a natural out growth of affluence.

VERY perceptive observation.

The nature migration from an INDUSTRIAL economy to a service economy is the outcome of increasingly efficient industrialism.

But to some extent we have not really done that,

What we have also done in part, even as industry is becoming more efficient is to migrate less efficient indutries to a place where labor is cheap.

So that just exascerbates the imbalance between service jobs and industrial jobs even more than it would have been if OUT SOURCING hadn't ALSO been happening at the same time

The fact that our economy is 70% consumption is a problem.

In the longer run, THAT WE HAVE FOUNDED AN ECONOMY BASED ON CONSUMPTION is a problem that we're not even willing to admit.

In the longer run such an economic system is probably UNSUSTAINABLE no matter where the factories are, or who works in them either.

In the long run a soceity basing its economy on consumption ENCOURAGES WASTE.

And as natural resources are squandered, and as the pollution from a consumptive based society fouls the nest, some OTHER economic paradign must be created.

The above, incidently, is one of the primary complains of the HIP movement.

That ultimately a consumer based economy cannot surive in a world with limited resources.

Yeah yeah I know, most of you who weren't there think HIPDOM was ALL about ACID, lound music and free love.

Well it was about those things, but unpinning all that fun was some SERIOUS social science that informed people like myself, that this society is going to need to make serious changes to the social contract sooner or later.

The HIP movement was not only ahead of its time, it was ahead of of THIS time we're in now, too.

 

[sparky]

and the service industry/afflunce cycle is also unsustainable in that long run, like anything else that creates it's own disparity based predators

i'm told the indian nation considered the long run within their networked tribal counsulate, correct me if i'm wrong but, they only has magic mushrooms....

 

[Sallow]

The countries you mention don't have:

Unions
EPA
OSHA
High Corp Taxation

And so on. The playing field isn't anywhere near level.

Could be a coincidence though.

And the countries you mention don't have: anyone making a wage that comes close to the average wages in the US. And that in itself is ironic consider US wages (in Real Dollars)have been flat for 30 years for the working class.

Yep.

 

[Sallow]

and on that note.....>

Wages are not the problem. America’s failed trade policies that open the borders to a flood of cheap imports and allow companies to seek out the lowest labor costs and most lax regulations possible are.

“Many are quick to blame America’s manufacturing woes on labor and regulation. The fact is, average compensation for an American manufacturing worker, including benefits, is $32/hour. In Germany, the figure is $48/hour,” Scott Paul, executive director of the Alliance for American Manufacturing, writes at CNBC.com.

“Yet Germany’s manufacturing base is thriving. Germany has a trade surplus. German unions sit on company boards and make joint decisions about investments and strategy.”

While Germany’s manufacturing sector is thriving because it has a national strategy to maximize the use of the important sector, America’s is declining because of a lack of a plan.

Agreed on most of this.

Add in German CEOs make no where near what American CEOs make.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I believe that the major problem with our economy is the fact that we have moved from a production economy to a service economy. A service economy does not create wealth, it only shuffles it around. A production economy creates wealth, and we do not produce as much as we used to. If we look at China, India, South Korea, and Mexico we see economies that are heavy in production. All of our problems are just symptoms of this service vs production condition.

I think the major problem with our economy is that a bunch of idiots think they understand it. The really intelligent people know they don't and pay attention to things other than political sound bites.

Global demand is revving up profits at big U.S. manufacturers, and investors are jumping on for the ride, shrugging off high oil prices and concerns about Japan. Manufacturing output, which has bounced back much faster than consumer demand over the past year, grew more than four times as fast in the first quarter as the estimated rate for the overall U.S. economy. A series of surprisingly strong earnings reports this week have underscored that momentum.
"The economy would be limping along, at best, without the strong manufacturing sector," said Robert A. Dye, a senior economist at PNC Financial Services Group Inc. in Pittsburgh, who thinks the broader economy grew at only about a 2% pace in the first quarter.
The stock market has taken notice. On Wednesday, the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 186.79 points, or 1.5%, to 12453.54, its highest close since June 2008. Manufacturing stocks were among the day's biggest gainers, with United Technologies Corp. rising 4.3%, Caterpillar Inc. up 2.5% and Boeing Co. adding 2.6%.

Manufacturers Boom on Global Demand, Spurring Stocks to Three-Year High - WSJ.com


The truth is that the US still leads the world in manufacturing and production, despite all the jobs being shipped to China and us being a service economy now.