Separation of Church and State?

[rayboyusmc]

Republican Sen. John McCain and Democratic Sen. Barack Obama, both seeking to use religion to their advantage in the presidential campaign, have learned painful lessons about the risks of getting too close to religious leaders.

Both now realize that sermons given to a narrow audience on Sundays don't always play as well on the national stage, where context can be a casualty. And McCain's rejection of endorsements from two evangelical pastors puts into relief the candidate's problems with that core GOP constituency.

McCain, the Republican nominee-in waiting, and Obama, who is closing in on the Democratic nod, both have been slowed by their respective pastor problems. Whether the controversies will play a role in the months ahead remains unclear, but the two candidates face decisions about how clergy fit into their efforts to reach voters informed by faith.

Clergy who have seen colleagues go from relative obscurity to infamy in the course of a 24-hour news cycle face similar choices in weighing whether to talk about politics and candidates.

"This is the new terrain of religious politics," said David Domke, a University of Washington communications professor and co-author of "The God Strategy: How Religion Became a Political Weapon in America." "Politicians have been getting a pass on this for some time, using support from a minister or pastor for their political advantage and not having to answer for what that pastor has said."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080525/ap_on_el_pr/problem_pastors

 

[Yurt]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080525/ap_on_el_pr/problem_pastors

McCain, the Republican nominee-in waiting, and Obama, who is closing in on the Democratic nod, both have been slowed by their respective pastor problems

typical left wing bullshit. as if to compare obama's pastor of 20 years with..............mccain's pastor? huh? morons.

how you can objectively look at the media and not wonder how left slanted it is? are those on the left that blind? are you that dull? if so, you will end up in history's dust bin. in this great country's history, parties have come and gone, your 'party of lies' is next.

 

[rayboyusmc]

typical left wing bullshit. as if to compare obama's pastor of 20 years with..............mccain's pastor? huh? morons.

how you can objectively look at the media and not wonder how left slanted it is? are those on the left that blind? are you that dull? if so, you will end up in history's dust bin. in this great country's history, parties have come and gone, your 'parties of lies' is next.

McCain actively sought out his pastors for the religious vote, moron.

If any party is going into the dustbin, it is your conservative party, Oh, Dull one. What a flatulent response, Yurt.

 

[nibor]

McCain actively sought out his pastors for the religious vote, moron.

If any party is going into the dustbin, it is your conservative party, Oh, Dull one. What a flatulent response, Yurt.

Actually you both are caught between a wink and a nod..................



THERE IS NO SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE..........NONE PERIOD!!!!!!!

 

[SingingMongoose]

typical left wing bullshit. as if to compare obama's pastor of 20 years with..............mccain's pastor? huh? morons.

They didn't say "He's guilty," they said "he's been affected by it." That's just an objective observation.

And the media is VERY conservative. Perhaps Ted Turner thinks he's a liberal, perhaps Hollywood actors and actresses vote Democrat, but the media sends all kinds of nasty value-messages that reinforce the status quo.

 

[Ravi]

I hate to see Dems using religion in the manner the Reps do...

 

[midcan5]

In order today to be the republican nominee one has to swear allegiance to the Church of republicanism and a sort of phony religious piety is a big requirement. This is another example of how he has flip flopped.


"During this presidential campaign, McCain has shifted positions when it comes to what he religion now considers himself to be. In June 2007, McClatchy reported, "McCain still calls himself an Episcopalian." But as the 2008 South Carolina primary approached, McCain had a convenient-timed change of heart as he appealed to the Palmetto's State's massive evangelical base. In August, as ABC reported, "McCain's campaign staff identified him as 'Episcopalian' in a questionnaire prepared for ABC News' August 5 debate." But by September 2007, McCain announced he had in fact switched teams:

"It plays a role in my life. By the way, I'm not Episcopalian. I'm Baptist.""

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001024.htm

 

[jillian]

typical left wing bullshit. as if to compare obama's pastor of 20 years with..............mccain's pastor? huh? morons.

how you can objectively look at the media and not wonder how left slanted it is? are those on the left that blind? are you that dull? if so, you will end up in history's dust bin. in this great country's history, parties have come and gone, your 'party of lies' is next.

you still aren't getting it. obama's pastor isn't affecting policy so i don't like it, but i really couldn't give a rats patoot.

mccain's IS a purely political relationship that HE sought out....and for which he traded policy issues.

Real simple. Not that difficult to follow.

 

[SingingMongoose]

THERE IS NO SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE..........NONE PERIOD!!!!!!!

Do you mean that there ought to be no separation, or that there's none in practice?

 

[jreeves]

you still aren't getting it. obama's pastor isn't affecting policy so i don't like it, but i really couldn't give a rats patoot.

mccain's IS a purely political relationship that HE sought out....and for which he traded policy issues.

Real simple. Not that difficult to follow.

Of course the part where you say it has affected MCcain's policy is completely conjecture on your part. Whereas Wright's effect on Obama's policies are well documented.

 

[nibor]

Do you mean that there ought to be no separation, or that there's none in practice?

No Mongoose there is no separation literally OR legally.


What does the term separation of church and state actually mean......................that there will be NO RELIGION SPECIFIC LAWS written into the laws of the land!!!!!

THAT concept no longer exists since March 26 1991.......................it was subversively usurped on that day, hidden under the lie of EDUCATION DAY!

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=47276

 

[nibor]

Oh and btw here IS the prescribed literal PUNISHMENT FOR BREAKING THOSE LAWS! ................BEHEADING........jews being the merciful that they are.................not!


http://www.fisheaters.com/jc2.html

http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/P.L.102-14.htm

 

[jillian]

Of course the part where you say it has affected MCcain's policy is completely conjecture on your part. Whereas Wright's effect on Obama's policies are well documented.

no conjecture. one...why do you THINK they endorsed mccain? because they love him? nope... because he gave/promised them something.

two... why else is the man who called the rabid religious right "agents of intolerance" suddenly looking heavenward when he talks longingly about the unborn?

Answer to two... see one.

Sorry, mccain wouldn't get my vote if there was NO ONE running against him.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

No Mongoose there is no separation literally OR legally.


What does the term separation of church and state actually mean......................that there will be NO RELIGION SPECIFIC LAWS written into the laws of the land!!!!!

THAT concept no longer exists since March 26 1991.......................it was subversively usurped on that day, hidden under the lie of EDUCATION DAY!

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=47276

Oh wow, Bush is a fanatical religious nut....we'd better get his religious nonsense OUT of our schools....I mean, look at this HORRIBLE horrible religious crap that he is spewing and hiding right under an Education Day LIE....

"Public as well as private institutions of learning have both an obligation and a proper interest in advancing principles of ethical conduct and moral virtue. Teachers who demonstrate, by word and example, the importance of such qualities as truthfulness, fair play, tolerance, and respect for human life are among the best role models a child can have."

/end sarcasm

 

[nibor]

Oh wow, Bush is a fanatical religious nut....we'd better get his religious nonsense OUT of our schools....I mean, look at this HORRIBLE horrible religious crap that he is spewing and hiding right under an Education Day LIE....

"Public as well as private institutions of learning have both an obligation and a proper interest in advancing principles of ethical conduct and moral virtue. Teachers who demonstrate, by word and example, the importance of such qualities as truthfulness, fair play, tolerance, and respect for human life are among the best role models a child can have."

/end sarcasm

Caught between a wink and a nod I see...............AS LONG AS IT'S JEWISH CONDUCT AND VIRTUE?????????


The law is the law......................and it's prescriptions!!!!!!!


Why are the Ten Commandments gone from the public to learn ???????

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Caught between a wink and a nod I see...............AS LONG AS IT'S JEWISH CONDUCT AND VIRTUE?????????


The law is the law......................and it's prescriptions!!!!!!!


Why are the Ten Commandments gone from the public to learn ???????

Quite the little verbal prancy dancer aren't ya? Is that because you can't speak a straight sentence?

Tell me, are truthfulness, fair play, tolerance, and respect for human life the same thing as the 10 Commandments or some horrible Jewish religious lie you think is being foisted upon our country?

 

[AllieBaba]

What kills me is that the left has much more respect for separation of church and state than it does for the concept of freedom of religion.

Separation of church and state is NOT an admonition that politicians must be agnostic/atheist/non-religious, nor is it a directive meant to eliminate all reference to religion from our politics. Separation of church and state does NOT mean if one is a moral person, or a religious person, then your politics must not reflect your morality or your religion.

All it means is that the state cannot dictate to us which religion we MUST be.

People still get to talk about their religion, they still get to go to church and espouse religious ideals...even if they run for a political office. It is not a violation of "separation of church and state" if they say they are against abortion for religious reasons. It is not a violation of "separation of church and state" if they allow prayer in public schools...provided they aren't expelling children for refusing to pray. It isn't a violation of church and state if they say they are running for office because Allah told them to. It isn't a violation of church and state if they say they are guided by God when they propose changes in law.

It's only a violation of "church and state" separation if they pass laws which punish people for their religious beliefs, period, if those beliefs aren't such that they, by and of themselves, don't trample upon the rights of others.

 

[nibor]

Quite the little verbal prancy dancer aren't ya? Is that because you can't speak a straight sentence?

Tell me, are truthfulness, fair play, tolerance, and respect for human life the same thing as the 10 Commandments or some horrible Jewish religious lie you think is being foisted upon our country?

What do the Ten Commandments dictate to you???

Are truthfulness, fair play, tolerance, and respect for human life OR ONE'S RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, anything that was passed in this bill without the public's common knowledge or say so in a so called democracy?????

And yes I think the dictates and perscription for punishment is quite terrible, especially in another time under unforseen future circumstances could be more than quite terrible!!!!!!!!!

AND BY WHO'S RIGHT.....................?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

What do the Ten Commandments dictate to you???

Are truthfulness, fair play, tolerance, and respect for human life OR ONE'S RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, anything that was passed in this bill without the public's common knowledge or say so in a so called democracy?????

And yes I think the dictates and perscription for punishment is quite terrible, especially in another time under unforseen future circumstances could be more than quite terrible!!!!!!!!!

AND BY WHO'S RIGHT.....................?

You're a nut.

Nobody's dictating the 10 Commandments.

 

[AllieBaba]

And it wouldn't matter if they were, because that's not what the separation is about.