Senator Dianne Feinstein Moves To Ban ALL Assault Rifles, High Capacity Magazines...

[thereisnospoon]

Joe if there was no Guns for those 37 who killed themselves......dont you think they could find another way?......if a person wants to end it bad enough,they dont need a gun to do it....same with Domestic murders.....

Ummm, no actually I don't. And neither do you.

Having a gun in the house makes it a LOT easier to kill yourself or someone else.

Which is why we have a murder rate that is so much higher than other industrialized countries, and a higher suicide rate as well.

My argument was not "how do we stop domestic homicide/suicide". My argument was, is a gun in your house more of a danger to your family than protection.

And statistically- it is.

And here's the thing. I don't want to ban private gun ownership. I do want to change the laws so that crazy people like Joker HOlmes can't walk into a gun store and arm himself like the Zombies are coming.

But the two argument gun fetishists like Caveman give for wanting a gun is 1) "I need to protect myself from all the scary non-white people who might commit crimes" and 2) "I need to have a gun in case government goes too far and I need to fight them."

Both arguments are absurd in the extreme.

If you like to shoot or hunt, I have no problem with that. But frankly, you should have at least the bare minimum responsibility that people take with other activities like driving a car.

Appealing to the lowest common denominator is no way to govern.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Joe if there was no Guns for those 37 who killed themselves......dont you think they could find another way?......if a person wants to end it bad enough,they dont need a gun to do it....same with Domestic murders.....

Ummm, no actually I don't. And neither do you.

Having a gun in the house makes it a LOT easier to kill yourself or someone else.

Which is why we have a murder rate that is so much higher than other industrialized countries, and a higher suicide rate as well.

My argument was not "how do we stop domestic homicide/suicide". My argument was, is a gun in your house more of a danger to your family than protection.

And statistically- it is.

And here's the thing. I don't want to ban private gun ownership. I do want to change the laws so that crazy people like Joker HOlmes can't walk into a gun store and arm himself like the Zombies are coming.

But the two argument gun fetishists like Caveman give for wanting a gun is 1) "I need to protect myself from all the scary non-white people who might commit crimes" and 2) "I need to have a gun in case government goes too far and I need to fight them."

Both arguments are absurd in the extreme.

If you like to shoot or hunt, I have no problem with that. But frankly, you should have at least the bare minimum responsibility that people take with other activities like driving a car.

What is it with you and the racist comments?
"Scary non-white people?" No one but you has mentioned skin tone. Why is that?
Personally..If you are a criminal and try to steal from me or harm me, I will kill you. And I wouldn't give it any more though than the bug that got squashed on my windshield. You commit a crime against another person, you lose your right to remain healthy.
I don't give a fuck what color you are.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The militia consist of a group of private citizens not connected to the government, who supply their own firearms.
If that is how you want to go.

Not connected?

The congress has authority over militias.

Incorrect. The "militia" is defined as National Guard. The governors of the respective States have authority over those troops.
Yes, they can be deployed overseas during war time. THAT however is the ONLY authority
the federal government has over the National Guard.
Case and point, during the aftermath of Katrina, then Gov Blanco had the sole authority to deploy Louisiana Guard troops. She refused.
Case and point. Gov Cuomo of NY wanted to offer NG Troops assistance to NYC, Mayor super Lib REFUSED, stating Guard troops carry guns. Doomburg did not want anyone beside the NYPD to be carrying weapons in Liberal Land.
Meanwhile the people pf the outer Boroughs, the ones Doomberg could not care less about, continue to suffer. They have no power, food, heat or fuel yet they stay in their homes because there is no one to protect them from looting and other crimes.
I know you live in the City. I read the Post and the News on line too. As well as the SI Advance and LI Newsday. So don't go telling me I don't know anything. News is available to anyone who knows how to look for it.

Also the unorganized Militia let's not forget about them.

 

[thereisnospoon]

German Firearms Act of 1937:
"No civilian is to have a firearm without a permit and permits will not be issued to [persons] suspected of acting against the state. For Jews this permission will not be granted. Those people who do not require permission to purchase or carry weapons [include] the whole SS and SA, including the Death's Head group and officers of the Hitler Youth." [Kates, Restricting Handguns pg. 185, 1979]

Adolph Hitler:
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942, [Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951); The original source is notes taken by Hitler associate Martin Bormann, a document called Bormann-Vermerke.

Heinrich Himmler:
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA-- ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."
]

GODWIN ALERT!!!! The sign of a losing argument is always when they bring up the Nazis.

Facts kick your ass, don't they?

 

[JoeB131]

[
SCOTUS says you're full of shit. Your pouting and stamping your feet alters that not at all.

SCOTUS says that now, but frankly, Scalia and Thomas ain't gonna live forever and Obama gets to appoint their replacements.

Then, buh-bye crazy interpretations of the Constitution...

Yes, leave it to the most socialist president in the history of the USA to appoint far left wing activist SC Justices.
Hey genius, did it ever occur to you that Scalia and Thomas have already been asked to stay on the Court for another 4 years?
And as long as Roberts is a the Chief Justice it is he who decides which cases get heard.
Umm the Second Amendment is in no way ambiguous.
The US Constitution is what it is. It is not the personal toy of liberals to be molded and folded into what they want it to say.
Your side will have a tough time if you keep going down this path.

Please don't go thinking Obama has a mandate. You would be incorrect.
The GOP can stop anything Obama wants to do. The representatives in the US House represent the will of the people. Not the president. Not the Senate. Even if they are all GOP, it does not matter.
.

Not a lefty, guy. I voted for Obama because you guys slapped me in the face by nominating the Mormon. And I was pretty clear during the primary season that was what I was going to do...

The GOP has so alienated working folks like me, women, minorities, etc... by pandering to its base, it simply has ceased to function as a party.

Now, on the matter of what the 2nd Amendment says. It pretty clearly says that gun ownership is within the bounds of a "well-regulated militia", which means you CAN have sensible gun laws on the municipal, state and federal level, and you really should.

Joker Holmes being able to buy a 100 round clip isn't "Well-regulated". That's the gun lobby having hijacked the political process from common sense.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Good question..

The day we come for your guns, everyone will be cheering because, frankly, you people are scarier than shit.

Again who are you going to get to enforce the confiscation? I can assure you you'll also be fighting cops deputy sheriffs and members of the fine N.C. State Police. So who will you get too enforce it?

again, that's what David Koresh thought...

It will be a major fight with police deputy sheriffs and N.C. State Police fighting with the people of North Carolina, So who you going to call for back up?

 

[thereisnospoon]

SCOTUS says that now, but frankly, Scalia and Thomas ain't gonna live forever and Obama gets to appoint their replacements.

Then, buh-bye crazy interpretations of the Constitution...

Sorry, kid. Your leftist wet-dream of an unarmed populace helpless against your ideal government which has taken all freedoms away simply isn't going to happen.

It sounds like you need to move your America-hating ass to Cuba. It's just what you're looking for.

Bye now!

Dave, when the government comes for you gun nutters, the rest of us will be cheering because you were frightening the children.

Ask David Koresh how well that worked out for him.

The government is not going to "come for you gun nutters"...It's just not going to happen.
You must be delusional.
Imagine in this day with the rapidity of the spread of information via social networking, I could only imagine the government sending in agents to break down the doors of gun owners. Tell ya what, the government had better be prepared with a lot of bandages and body bags.
The Framers has this in mind, what you suggest (government coming to confiscate firearms) when they wrote the Second Amendment....BTW, the Second Amendment is not going ANYWHERE..

 

[JoeB131]

German Firearms Act of 1937:
"No civilian is to have a firearm without a permit and permits will not be issued to [persons] suspected of acting against the state. For Jews this permission will not be granted. Those people who do not require permission to purchase or carry weapons [include] the whole SS and SA, including the Death's Head group and officers of the Hitler Youth." [Kates, Restricting Handguns pg. 185, 1979]

Adolph Hitler:
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942, [Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951); The original source is notes taken by Hitler associate Martin Bormann, a document called Bormann-Vermerke.

Heinrich Himmler:
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA-- ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."
]

GODWIN ALERT!!!! The sign of a losing argument is always when they bring up the Nazis.

]

Facts kick your ass, don't they?

Uh, guy, the "Facts" just show profound ignorance of Germany history.

Hint- THERE WAS NO NAZI GUN CONTROL. In fact, the Nazis saw gun ownership as a sign of manliness. And guns were so common in Weimar Germany that mobs of Communists, Nazis and other factions were shooting each other in the street for years.

The guy who took all the guns away from your average German was Ike.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The government is not going to "come for you gun nutters"...It's just not going to happen.
You must be delusional.
Imagine in this day with the rapidity of the spread of information via social networking, I could only imagine the government sending in agents to break down the doors of gun owners. Tell ya what, the government had better be prepared with a lot of bandages and body bags.
The Framers has this in mind, what you suggest (government coming to confiscate firearms) when they wrote the Second Amendment....BTW, the Second Amendment is not going ANYWHERE..

I think you miss the point.

How does the IRS get everyone to comply? They make examples out of a few people.

When we get common sense gun laws in this country (sooner than you think), I'm sure there will be a bunch of nutters who think they can shoot it out with the FBI or ATF.

And again, Ask David Koresh how that usually works out.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

GODWIN ALERT!!!! The sign of a losing argument is always when they bring up the Nazis.

]

Facts kick your ass, don't they?

Uh, guy, the "Facts" just show profound ignorance of Germany history.

Hint- THERE WAS NO NAZI GUN CONTROL. In fact, the Nazis saw gun ownership as a sign of manliness. And guns were so common in Weimar Germany that mobs of Communists, Nazis and other factions were shooting each other in the street for years.

The guy who took all the guns away from your average German was Ike.

You might require more help than I first thought
Check out German Weapons Law of November 11, 1938

 

[JoeB131]

Facts kick your ass, don't they?

Uh, guy, the "Facts" just show profound ignorance of Germany history.

Hint- THERE WAS NO NAZI GUN CONTROL. In fact, the Nazis saw gun ownership as a sign of manliness. And guns were so common in Weimar Germany that mobs of Communists, Nazis and other factions were shooting each other in the street for years.

The guy who took all the guns away from your average German was Ike.

You might require more help than I first thought
Check out German Weapons Law of November 11, 1938

Why, because this is something that goes around on Gun nutter websites.

Trust me, my dad was in Germany in WWII. A lack of guns was not a big problem for them.

 

[JoeB131]

Again...

Gun politics in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."[4]
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]
The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]
The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.[5]

In short, the evilllll 1938 law actually loosened the gun laws in germany that existed at that time.

Now, it is true that the 1938 law restricted Jews rights to own guns (along with their right to do just about anything else). But for your average German citizen, it was happy days.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Again...

Gun politics in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."[4]
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]
The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]
The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.[5]

In short, the evilllll 1938 law actually loosened the gun laws in germany that existed at that time.

Now, it is true that the 1938 law restricted Jews rights to own guns (along with their right to do just about anything else). But for your average German citizen, it was happy days.

Wiki OMG

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Uh, guy, the "Facts" just show profound ignorance of Germany history.

Hint- THERE WAS NO NAZI GUN CONTROL. In fact, the Nazis saw gun ownership as a sign of manliness. And guns were so common in Weimar Germany that mobs of Communists, Nazis and other factions were shooting each other in the street for years.

The guy who took all the guns away from your average German was Ike.

You might require more help than I first thought
Check out German Weapons Law of November 11, 1938

Why, because this is something that goes around on Gun nutter websites.

Trust me, my dad was in Germany in WWII. A lack of guns was not a big problem for them.

6 MILLION Jews would argue that point if they had not been disarmed and murdered.

 

[Londoner]

The article linked by the OP offers the following sentence as evidence

"I don’t have the minutes of the meeting (yet), but sources tell me ..."

This is a common Republican strategy designed to agitate stupid people with fake or exaggerated reporting.

Welcome to the GOP's failed election strategy.

Rather than inspiring and identifying with a larger group of hard working Americans,

... they're still trying to scare the same small group of under-educated, white morons.

The Left won't get rid of guns anymore than the Right will get rid of Abortion.

These are wedge issues designed for the stupid. They are "front of the house" distractions.

 

[nitroz]

I'm for keeping these things available, but documentation for ownership is required.

 

[JoeB131]

[
6 MILLION Jews would argue that point if they had not been disarmed and murdered.

Except they were never armed to start with, and after 2000 years of Christian vilification, they found plenty of Christians all over Europe willing to kill them.

Gun control was really the least of their problems.

 

[thereisnospoon]

How many times have you been told wiki is unreliable and cannot be used as a fact source.

Never once by anyone whose opinion I respected.

Wiki is seriously sourced and fact checked. What you said might be true, 10 years ago, but now so much now.

Criminals do not rob people in areas where the people are permitted to carry and own firearms. Of course they don't rob those who are carrying.

No, usually, they wait until no one is home, then they break in and steal what they want, including the guns...

A week does not go by where there is not at least one home invasion robbery that goes bad for the criminal. Happened here last month. Two fucking POS scum bags broke into an elderly couple's home. One was shot dead, the other was wounded and was found at a local hospital with the through and through.

Yes, and I'm sure these stories are like porn to you, but frankly, if we lock up 2 million people, have another 7 million on parole or probation, arm ourselves to the teeth, and we have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world, do you think, maybe, just maybe, we are doing something wrong?

Naaaahhhh.. Probably never occurs to you.

Of course the family members of the perps said "these are good boys. They didn't rob nobody. That man didn't have to shoot them"..
Meanwhile both these fuck heads had records as long as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

So again, I ask, why do we have so many people with records so long walking the streets.

Oh, that's right, because instead of teaching them how to read, and making sure they have good paying jobs, crime and vice are the only career paths available to them.

Then we have to let them walk the streets, because we've already got 2 million people locked up, and we have to let the rapist go to find a cell for a murderer.

Oh, yeah, and let's cut Prison Guard Salaries and benefits, those lazy-ass government workers.

Did I miss anything?

Meanwhile, in the United Kingdom, they only have 39 firearms deaths compared to our 9156, and they only have 78,000 prisoners compared to our 2 Million....

Hmmmmm...

No genius. The reason why those people are in prison is because THEY did something wrong.
How typical of a yellow spined liberal to announce that somehow we did something wrong when a crime is committed.
If the UK is so grand GO LIVE THERE.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

[

The government is not going to "come for you gun nutters"...It's just not going to happen.
You must be delusional.
Imagine in this day with the rapidity of the spread of information via social networking, I could only imagine the government sending in agents to break down the doors of gun owners. Tell ya what, the government had better be prepared with a lot of bandages and body bags.
The Framers has this in mind, what you suggest (government coming to confiscate firearms) when they wrote the Second Amendment....BTW, the Second Amendment is not going ANYWHERE..

I think you miss the point.

How does the IRS get everyone to comply? They make examples out of a few people.

When we get common sense gun laws in this country (sooner than you think), I'm sure there will be a bunch of nutters who think they can shoot it out with the FBI or ATF.

And again, Ask David Koresh how that usually works out.

You keep using Koresh as an example. You may want to check your facts. The Waco Compound had no gun fight with the ATF. The 4 agents that were shout were most likely shot by fellow ATF agents. They crawled in a window upstairs and on the first day there was a video of what happened next. After the agents went in the remaining agents on the roof opened fire on the same window with automatic fire.

After all was said and done the only WOUNDED member of the Compound was Koresh who was shot through the door when the supposed assault began. The door had NO bullet holes in it coming from the Compound only coming from the Parking lot. NONE of the cars in the parking lot had any bullet holes coming from the Compound only from the outside where the ATF agents were. No FBI was ever fired on the entire siege.

Further the members of the compound broke no laws to warrant the supposed assault. Every single weapon in the compound was legally purchased , they had at least 2 members of the Compound that had Federal firearms licenses. The ATF claimed weapons were purchased out of State, simply not true after the final assault all the weapons were checked they were all legally obtained. Further the ATF secretly revoked the FFL from those in the compound just before the raid. No one in the Compound broke any laws.

After the FBI took over and it started to look bad for Reno's law enforcement tactics they fabricated charges that Koresh was sleeping with children. No such claim was ever made before the siege. And before the illegal assault on the compound the Sheriff went out there ever time he had a question and met with Koresh even taking him to his office on occasion.

Know lets fast forward to the final assault shall we? The FBI KNEW that flammable liquids were dispersed through out the wooden compound. They knew that the adults in the Compound would commit suicide if attacked. They knew there were at least 18 children in the compound. NOT one member of the compound had ever attempted to leave. Not one member of the compound was a threat to anyone that did not storm the building. For 3 months no one fired out of the compound no one tried to leave the compound.

Yet Reno ordered 2 tanks to break through the walls of a wooden structure firing tear gas, a structure with flammable materials all around and 18 innocent children. She ordered an assault when none was needed. There was no danger anyone in the compound would get out. The result 18 dead children and something like 60 dead adults.

You may want another example, one that actually has the civilian side shooting at the Feds.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

The government is not going to "come for you gun nutters"...It's just not going to happen.
You must be delusional.
Imagine in this day with the rapidity of the spread of information via social networking, I could only imagine the government sending in agents to break down the doors of gun owners. Tell ya what, the government had better be prepared with a lot of bandages and body bags.
The Framers has this in mind, what you suggest (government coming to confiscate firearms) when they wrote the Second Amendment....BTW, the Second Amendment is not going ANYWHERE..

I think you miss the point.

How does the IRS get everyone to comply? They make examples out of a few people.

When we get common sense gun laws in this country (sooner than you think), I'm sure there will be a bunch of nutters who think they can shoot it out with the FBI or ATF.

And again, Ask David Koresh how that usually works out.

You are convinced sending in federal authorities into neighborhoods to kick down doors is the way to go?
Even if the federal government happens to pass such a law, there is no efficient way to enforce it.
This issue is DEAD in the water. It's just not going to happen. WHY? It's political suicide.
And politicians are most interested in keeping their jobs above all else.