Senate Democrats plan to hold the floor to protest inaction on gun legislation

[Slade3200]

You have to consider that not everybody is a military trained vet like yourself. Some people get very scared when a gun is present. They see gun violence and don’t think, I need to get a gun to defend myself, they think I want to get guns off the streets and see less of them in my community. These are the people who support Betos cause and there are many of them.

I grew up as an army brat. The town I graduated high school from, when I graduated, wasn't the biggest, but by no means was it a little huckleberry town. Gun racks with rifles and shot guns were "normal" and nobody messed with them. We had classes on gun safety, if I'm not mistaken they were part of the health classes we had to take. Nothing dedicated to an entire year muchless a semester.... Just part of a class somewhere, every year from early on. What was frown upon is if someone decided to bring a pistol onto school grounds....and it happened and was handled at the appropriate level at the time.

My military training has little to do with my attitude towards firearms. My preference for me to be able to defend me and mine yes... I prefer a ar 15 with a collapsible stock to allow for use in confined spaces, chambered for .308 as I have used the .223/5.56 and should I have to shoot someone, I only want to do it once... Not multiple times. Unless its absolutely necessary.

I don't know when schools got away from teaching firearm safety... Like I said, it was something that was touched upon from an early age for many of us. The vast amount of ignorance about firearms could be abated from an early age if those classes were brought back and taught to our kids. Instead of letting the lack of knowledge (re ignorance) be the rule and saying kids don't need to know.
Kids get all sorts of shit pushed down their proverbial throats, in the guise of education, tolerance, and understanding. I can tell you there were things my children had to "learn" I had grave reservations about... And no, I will not express what they were as they are very off targert here, but I will say they were under that very guise of "tolerence."
Bring back firearm education... I would even suggest allowing the NRA to assist, if not provide instructors, for the necessary classes.... That will be a very unpopular idea for a bunch on the left.... But the NRA isn't a bad guy organization and actually push for education and training... If folks would actually read for themselves what they do.

I don’t think you are far off base. You seem to be an intelligent guy with an open mind towards ideas to make our world a safer place. You are like most gun supporting Americans that I’ve encountered, many of which are close friends of mine. I believe there are more people in the middle on this issue than the wings. Unfortunately the wings are hogging the spotlight.

I also grew up in a small town where many of my friends and family owned guns. I think it is a good idea for schools to do gun safety education. Some still do... a few years ago a local high school 20 minutes from my house was doing a gun safety assembly and the demonstrator accidentally fired the gun in the room full of students. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I think the NRA was forced into a political stance based on the constant attacks by the left. The Dems can't use the "deplorable" strategy as they seen how it worked for them the last time. So instead of insulting every gun owning American, they do so by proxy through the NRA.

The NRA didn't draw first blood. It was the Democrats that came after them. So now they're in bed with the Republican party because the Republicans will support their cause.

They weren’t forced into anything. Come on Ray wake up. They are using the most effective and aggressive marketing tactics to progress their agenda. Same as our politicians are doing with their campaigning. Unfortunately that no longer involves catering to the middle. It’s all about firing up the extreme base and demonizing the other side. It’s unfortunate

 

[DamnDude]

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I'm curious.
Why do you believe the NRA has "disqualified" themselves from being an educator to the people?

 

[Markle]

The origins of the AR-15 (from Wikipedia):

"As a result, the Army was forced to reconsider a 1957 request by General Willard G. Wyman, commander of the U.S. Continental Army Command (CONARC) to develop a .223 caliber (5.56 mm) select-fire rifle weighing 6 lb (2.7 kg) when loaded with a 20-round magazine.[9] The 5.56mm round had to penetrate a standard U.S. M1 helmet at 500 yards (460 meters) and retain a velocity in excess of the speed of sound, while matching or exceeding the wounding ability of the .30 Carbine cartridge.[34] This request ultimately resulted in the development of a scaled-down version of the ArmaLite AR-10, called ArmaLite AR-15 rifle.[5][7][35]"

ArmaLite AR-15 - Wikipedia

Bottom line, the AR-15 is NOT an "assault weapon" from 1957. It is not selective fire either.

What is the difference between these two rifles?

 

[iceberg]

You have to consider that not everybody is a military trained vet like yourself. Some people get very scared when a gun is present. They see gun violence and don’t think, I need to get a gun to defend myself, they think I want to get guns off the streets and see less of them in my community. These are the people who support Betos cause and there are many of them.

I grew up as an army brat. The town I graduated high school from, when I graduated, wasn't the biggest, but by no means was it a little huckleberry town. Gun racks with rifles and shot guns were "normal" and nobody messed with them. We had classes on gun safety, if I'm not mistaken they were part of the health classes we had to take. Nothing dedicated to an entire year muchless a semester.... Just part of a class somewhere, every year from early on. What was frown upon is if someone decided to bring a pistol onto school grounds....and it happened and was handled at the appropriate level at the time.

My military training has little to do with my attitude towards firearms. My preference for me to be able to defend me and mine yes... I prefer a ar 15 with a collapsible stock to allow for use in confined spaces, chambered for .308 as I have used the .223/5.56 and should I have to shoot someone, I only want to do it once... Not multiple times. Unless its absolutely necessary.

I don't know when schools got away from teaching firearm safety... Like I said, it was something that was touched upon from an early age for many of us. The vast amount of ignorance about firearms could be abated from an early age if those classes were brought back and taught to our kids. Instead of letting the lack of knowledge (re ignorance) be the rule and saying kids don't need to know.
Kids get all sorts of shit pushed down their proverbial throats, in the guise of education, tolerance, and understanding. I can tell you there were things my children had to "learn" I had grave reservations about... And no, I will not express what they were as they are very off targert here, but I will say they were under that very guise of "tolerence."
Bring back firearm education... I would even suggest allowing the NRA to assist, if not provide instructors, for the necessary classes.... That will be a very unpopular idea for a bunch on the left.... But the NRA isn't a bad guy organization and actually push for education and training... If folks would actually read for themselves what they do.

I don’t think you are far off base. You seem to be an intelligent guy with an open mind towards ideas to make our world a safer place. You are like most gun supporting Americans that I’ve encountered, many of which are close friends of mine. I believe there are more people in the middle on this issue than the wings. Unfortunately the wings are hogging the spotlight.

I also grew up in a small town where many of my friends and family owned guns. I think it is a good idea for schools to do gun safety education. Some still do... a few years ago a local high school 20 minutes from my house was doing a gun safety assembly and the demonstrator accidentally fired the gun in the room full of students. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I think the NRA was forced into a political stance based on the constant attacks by the left. The Dems can't use the "deplorable" strategy as they seen how it worked for them the last time. So instead of insulting every gun owning American, they do so by proxy through the NRA.

The NRA didn't draw first blood. It was the Democrats that came after them. So now they're in bed with the Republican party because the Republicans will support their cause.

They weren’t forced into anything. Come on Ray wake up. They are using the most effective and aggressive marketing tactics to progress their agenda. Same as our politicians are doing with their campaigning. Unfortunately that no longer involves catering to the middle. It’s all about firing up the extreme base and demonizing the other side. It’s unfortunate

Except the NRA was never considered an EXTREME organization until it suited the agenda of the left.

The left demonizing someone doesn't make it valid or true. Besides they HITLER NAZI RACIST everything. Why give them credibility for their bullshit NOW?

 

[iceberg]

The origins of the AR-15 (from Wikipedia):

"As a result, the Army was forced to reconsider a 1957 request by General Willard G. Wyman, commander of the U.S. Continental Army Command (CONARC) to develop a .223 caliber (5.56 mm) select-fire rifle weighing 6 lb (2.7 kg) when loaded with a 20-round magazine.[9] The 5.56mm round had to penetrate a standard U.S. M1 helmet at 500 yards (460 meters) and retain a velocity in excess of the speed of sound, while matching or exceeding the wounding ability of the .30 Carbine cartridge.[34] This request ultimately resulted in the development of a scaled-down version of the ArmaLite AR-10, called ArmaLite AR-15 rifle.[5][7][35]"

ArmaLite AR-15 - Wikipedia

Bottom line, the AR-15 is NOT an "assault weapon" from 1957. It is not selective fire either.

What is the difference between these two rifles?

Mostly looks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You have to consider that not everybody is a military trained vet like yourself. Some people get very scared when a gun is present. They see gun violence and don’t think, I need to get a gun to defend myself, they think I want to get guns off the streets and see less of them in my community. These are the people who support Betos cause and there are many of them.

I grew up as an army brat. The town I graduated high school from, when I graduated, wasn't the biggest, but by no means was it a little huckleberry town. Gun racks with rifles and shot guns were "normal" and nobody messed with them. We had classes on gun safety, if I'm not mistaken they were part of the health classes we had to take. Nothing dedicated to an entire year muchless a semester.... Just part of a class somewhere, every year from early on. What was frown upon is if someone decided to bring a pistol onto school grounds....and it happened and was handled at the appropriate level at the time.

My military training has little to do with my attitude towards firearms. My preference for me to be able to defend me and mine yes... I prefer a ar 15 with a collapsible stock to allow for use in confined spaces, chambered for .308 as I have used the .223/5.56 and should I have to shoot someone, I only want to do it once... Not multiple times. Unless its absolutely necessary.

I don't know when schools got away from teaching firearm safety... Like I said, it was something that was touched upon from an early age for many of us. The vast amount of ignorance about firearms could be abated from an early age if those classes were brought back and taught to our kids. Instead of letting the lack of knowledge (re ignorance) be the rule and saying kids don't need to know.
Kids get all sorts of shit pushed down their proverbial throats, in the guise of education, tolerance, and understanding. I can tell you there were things my children had to "learn" I had grave reservations about... And no, I will not express what they were as they are very off targert here, but I will say they were under that very guise of "tolerence."
Bring back firearm education... I would even suggest allowing the NRA to assist, if not provide instructors, for the necessary classes.... That will be a very unpopular idea for a bunch on the left.... But the NRA isn't a bad guy organization and actually push for education and training... If folks would actually read for themselves what they do.

I don’t think you are far off base. You seem to be an intelligent guy with an open mind towards ideas to make our world a safer place. You are like most gun supporting Americans that I’ve encountered, many of which are close friends of mine. I believe there are more people in the middle on this issue than the wings. Unfortunately the wings are hogging the spotlight.

I also grew up in a small town where many of my friends and family owned guns. I think it is a good idea for schools to do gun safety education. Some still do... a few years ago a local high school 20 minutes from my house was doing a gun safety assembly and the demonstrator accidentally fired the gun in the room full of students. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I think the NRA was forced into a political stance based on the constant attacks by the left. The Dems can't use the "deplorable" strategy as they seen how it worked for them the last time. So instead of insulting every gun owning American, they do so by proxy through the NRA.

The NRA didn't draw first blood. It was the Democrats that came after them. So now they're in bed with the Republican party because the Republicans will support their cause.

They weren’t forced into anything. Come on Ray wake up. They are using the most effective and aggressive marketing tactics to progress their agenda. Same as our politicians are doing with their campaigning. Unfortunately that no longer involves catering to the middle. It’s all about firing up the extreme base and demonizing the other side. It’s unfortunate

Their agenda? And what agenda do you speak of?

The NRA promotes what their supporters expect them to promote.......them.

Effective and aggressive marketing tactics? Do you object if the Girl Scouts of America promote selling their cookies? Do you object if Toyota has Camry signs on the highway?

After I obtained my CCW license, the NRA sent me solicitations several times. After a short period, they quit sending me flyers because I never responded. The AARP has been sending me crap in the mail for the last ten years. In spite of me telling them to stop, because they supported Commie Care and I find them to be an un-American organization, they continue to this day, and I'm not going to turn 65 for another six years.

I don't know what you consider aggressive and effective because I don't see any NRA signs on the highway. I don't see any NRA ads when I'm at the doctor and pickup a Time magazine or something. I don't see them running television ads during a comedy movie.

 

[Slade3200]

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I'm curious.
Why do you believe the NRA has "disqualified" themselves from being an educator to the people?

They are discredited in my eyes from being an honest actor when it comes to the spreading of information. I’ve read their mailers and heard their advertisements and they engage in hyperbolic propaganda. the courses they provide their members is actually quite good but they have taken a side and decided to play dirty

 

[iceberg]

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I'm curious.
Why do you believe the NRA has "disqualified" themselves from being an educator to the people?

They are discredited in my eyes from being an honest actor when it comes to the spreading of information. I’ve read their mailers and heard their advertisements and they engage in hyperbolic propaganda. the courses they provide their members is actually quite good but they have taken a side and decided to play dirty

They say the left is coming for guns and are there to protect rights.

The left, after saying they are NOT coming for guns was fooling no one and now just admit it.

What EXACTLY is an example of "playing dirty"? And why is demonizing the NRA ansld declaring them a terrorist org valid but them standing their ground is wrong?

 

[DamnDude]

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I'm curious.
Why do you believe the NRA has "disqualified" themselves from being an educator to the people?

They are discredited in my eyes from being an honest actor when it comes to the spreading of information. I’ve read their mailers and heard their advertisements and they engage in hyperbolic propaganda. the courses they provide their members is actually quite good but they have taken a side and decided to play dirty

Okay.
Not to be facetious, but what, specifically, in their material do you deem to be hyperbolic? I ask this coming from the other side wanting, (the general you,) almost needing to understand where you (the personal you) are coming from and to a point the thought process behind your statement.
You state on one hand how useful their material is, to their members, but turn around and say they play dirty. Please expound and allow me the opportunity to understand.

 

[blackhawk]

 

[Slade3200]

You have to consider that not everybody is a military trained vet like yourself. Some people get very scared when a gun is present. They see gun violence and don’t think, I need to get a gun to defend myself, they think I want to get guns off the streets and see less of them in my community. These are the people who support Betos cause and there are many of them.

I grew up as an army brat. The town I graduated high school from, when I graduated, wasn't the biggest, but by no means was it a little huckleberry town. Gun racks with rifles and shot guns were "normal" and nobody messed with them. We had classes on gun safety, if I'm not mistaken they were part of the health classes we had to take. Nothing dedicated to an entire year muchless a semester.... Just part of a class somewhere, every year from early on. What was frown upon is if someone decided to bring a pistol onto school grounds....and it happened and was handled at the appropriate level at the time.

My military training has little to do with my attitude towards firearms. My preference for me to be able to defend me and mine yes... I prefer a ar 15 with a collapsible stock to allow for use in confined spaces, chambered for .308 as I have used the .223/5.56 and should I have to shoot someone, I only want to do it once... Not multiple times. Unless its absolutely necessary.

I don't know when schools got away from teaching firearm safety... Like I said, it was something that was touched upon from an early age for many of us. The vast amount of ignorance about firearms could be abated from an early age if those classes were brought back and taught to our kids. Instead of letting the lack of knowledge (re ignorance) be the rule and saying kids don't need to know.
Kids get all sorts of shit pushed down their proverbial throats, in the guise of education, tolerance, and understanding. I can tell you there were things my children had to "learn" I had grave reservations about... And no, I will not express what they were as they are very off targert here, but I will say they were under that very guise of "tolerence."
Bring back firearm education... I would even suggest allowing the NRA to assist, if not provide instructors, for the necessary classes.... That will be a very unpopular idea for a bunch on the left.... But the NRA isn't a bad guy organization and actually push for education and training... If folks would actually read for themselves what they do.

I don’t think you are far off base. You seem to be an intelligent guy with an open mind towards ideas to make our world a safer place. You are like most gun supporting Americans that I’ve encountered, many of which are close friends of mine. I believe there are more people in the middle on this issue than the wings. Unfortunately the wings are hogging the spotlight.

I also grew up in a small town where many of my friends and family owned guns. I think it is a good idea for schools to do gun safety education. Some still do... a few years ago a local high school 20 minutes from my house was doing a gun safety assembly and the demonstrator accidentally fired the gun in the room full of students. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I think the NRA was forced into a political stance based on the constant attacks by the left. The Dems can't use the "deplorable" strategy as they seen how it worked for them the last time. So instead of insulting every gun owning American, they do so by proxy through the NRA.

The NRA didn't draw first blood. It was the Democrats that came after them. So now they're in bed with the Republican party because the Republicans will support their cause.

They weren’t forced into anything. Come on Ray wake up. They are using the most effective and aggressive marketing tactics to progress their agenda. Same as our politicians are doing with their campaigning. Unfortunately that no longer involves catering to the middle. It’s all about firing up the extreme base and demonizing the other side. It’s unfortunate

Except the NRA was never considered an EXTREME organization until it suited the agenda of the left.

The left demonizing someone doesn't make it valid or true. Besides they HITLER NAZI RACIST everything. Why give them credibility for their bullshit NOW?

I dont care about what the “left” says. I’m going off of what I’ve seen in their mailings and advertisements

 

[Slade3200]

You have to consider that not everybody is a military trained vet like yourself. Some people get very scared when a gun is present. They see gun violence and don’t think, I need to get a gun to defend myself, they think I want to get guns off the streets and see less of them in my community. These are the people who support Betos cause and there are many of them.

I grew up as an army brat. The town I graduated high school from, when I graduated, wasn't the biggest, but by no means was it a little huckleberry town. Gun racks with rifles and shot guns were "normal" and nobody messed with them. We had classes on gun safety, if I'm not mistaken they were part of the health classes we had to take. Nothing dedicated to an entire year muchless a semester.... Just part of a class somewhere, every year from early on. What was frown upon is if someone decided to bring a pistol onto school grounds....and it happened and was handled at the appropriate level at the time.

My military training has little to do with my attitude towards firearms. My preference for me to be able to defend me and mine yes... I prefer a ar 15 with a collapsible stock to allow for use in confined spaces, chambered for .308 as I have used the .223/5.56 and should I have to shoot someone, I only want to do it once... Not multiple times. Unless its absolutely necessary.

I don't know when schools got away from teaching firearm safety... Like I said, it was something that was touched upon from an early age for many of us. The vast amount of ignorance about firearms could be abated from an early age if those classes were brought back and taught to our kids. Instead of letting the lack of knowledge (re ignorance) be the rule and saying kids don't need to know.
Kids get all sorts of shit pushed down their proverbial throats, in the guise of education, tolerance, and understanding. I can tell you there were things my children had to "learn" I had grave reservations about... And no, I will not express what they were as they are very off targert here, but I will say they were under that very guise of "tolerence."
Bring back firearm education... I would even suggest allowing the NRA to assist, if not provide instructors, for the necessary classes.... That will be a very unpopular idea for a bunch on the left.... But the NRA isn't a bad guy organization and actually push for education and training... If folks would actually read for themselves what they do.

I don’t think you are far off base. You seem to be an intelligent guy with an open mind towards ideas to make our world a safer place. You are like most gun supporting Americans that I’ve encountered, many of which are close friends of mine. I believe there are more people in the middle on this issue than the wings. Unfortunately the wings are hogging the spotlight.

I also grew up in a small town where many of my friends and family owned guns. I think it is a good idea for schools to do gun safety education. Some still do... a few years ago a local high school 20 minutes from my house was doing a gun safety assembly and the demonstrator accidentally fired the gun in the room full of students. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I think the NRA was forced into a political stance based on the constant attacks by the left. The Dems can't use the "deplorable" strategy as they seen how it worked for them the last time. So instead of insulting every gun owning American, they do so by proxy through the NRA.

The NRA didn't draw first blood. It was the Democrats that came after them. So now they're in bed with the Republican party because the Republicans will support their cause.

They weren’t forced into anything. Come on Ray wake up. They are using the most effective and aggressive marketing tactics to progress their agenda. Same as our politicians are doing with their campaigning. Unfortunately that no longer involves catering to the middle. It’s all about firing up the extreme base and demonizing the other side. It’s unfortunate

Their agenda? And what agenda do you speak of?

The NRA promotes what their supporters expect them to promote.......them.

Effective and aggressive marketing tactics? Do you object if the Girl Scouts of America promote selling their cookies? Do you object if Toyota has Camry signs on the highway?

After I obtained my CCW license, the NRA sent me solicitations several times. After a short period, they quit sending me flyers because I never responded. The AARP has been sending me crap in the mail for the last ten years. In spite of me telling them to stop, because they supported Commie Care and I find them to be an un-American organization, they continue to this day, and I'm not going to turn 65 for another six years.

I don't know what you consider aggressive and effective because I don't see any NRA signs on the highway. I don't see any NRA ads when I'm at the doctor and pickup a Time magazine or something. I don't see them running television ads during a comedy movie.

When organizations use hyperbole and fear tactics to push their messaging they define themselves to one side and one agenda. That’s fine but when talking about being responsible for the education of our youth, they are no longer credible in my eyes

 

[Slade3200]

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I'm curious.
Why do you believe the NRA has "disqualified" themselves from being an educator to the people?

They are discredited in my eyes from being an honest actor when it comes to the spreading of information. I’ve read their mailers and heard their advertisements and they engage in hyperbolic propaganda. the courses they provide their members is actually quite good but they have taken a side and decided to play dirty

Okay.
Not to be facetious, but what, specifically, in their material do you deem to be hyperbolic? I ask this coming from the other side wanting, (the general you,) almost needing to understand where you (the personal you) are coming from and to a point the thought process behind your statement.
You state on one hand how useful their material is, to their members, but turn around and say they play dirty. Please expound and allow me the opportunity to understand.

I appreciate the question and wish I had a better more specific answer for you. This is my experience... my father had many guns and was an NRA member. I think guns are fun but im not a big hunter or self defense gun guy. I just enjoy making bottles blow up in the back yard kind of thing. My father passed 5 years ago and I’ve been helping my mom over the past few years which includes getting the mail for her. She still gets NRA letters in her box weekly. Occasionally I open and read them and they often make me laugh and shake my head at the talking points they spout out. I don't remember specifics or ide post them, I do very much remember my impressions when I’ve read them. I also get emails from Republican and Democrat candidates and both are full of the same kind of dishonest hyperbole.

I know through my dads experience with the NRA that they provide many useful tools for gun owners, it’s the political wing IMO that has done them a disservice and branded them as an extremist org

 

[DamnDude]

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I'm curious.
Why do you believe the NRA has "disqualified" themselves from being an educator to the people?

They are discredited in my eyes from being an honest actor when it comes to the spreading of information. I’ve read their mailers and heard their advertisements and they engage in hyperbolic propaganda. the courses they provide their members is actually quite good but they have taken a side and decided to play dirty

Okay.
Not to be facetious, but what, specifically, in their material do you deem to be hyperbolic? I ask this coming from the other side wanting, (the general you,) almost needing to understand where you (the personal you) are coming from and to a point the thought process behind your statement.
You state on one hand how useful their material is, to their members, but turn around and say they play dirty. Please expound and allow me the opportunity to understand.

I appreciate the question and wish I had a better more specific answer for you. This is my experience... my father had many guns and was an NRA member. I think guns are fun but im not a big hunter or self defense gun guy. I just enjoy making bottles blow up in the back yard kind of thing. My father passed 5 years ago and I’ve been helping my mom over the past few years which includes getting the mail for her. She still gets NRA letters in her box weekly. Occasionally I open and read them and they often make me laugh and shake my head at the talking points they spout out. I don't remember specifics or ide post them, I do very much remember my impressions when I’ve read them. I also get emails from Republican and Democrat candidates and both are full of the same kind of dishonest hyperbole.

I know through my dads experience with the NRA that they provide many useful tools for gun owners, it’s the political wing IMO that has done them a disservice and branded them as an extremist org

My heartfelt condolences fornyour loss. It's a tough row to hoe when we lose a parent. I wish you peace in your heart, for you and your family.
I will continue later.

 

[Slade3200]

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I'm curious.
Why do you believe the NRA has "disqualified" themselves from being an educator to the people?

They are discredited in my eyes from being an honest actor when it comes to the spreading of information. I’ve read their mailers and heard their advertisements and they engage in hyperbolic propaganda. the courses they provide their members is actually quite good but they have taken a side and decided to play dirty

Okay.
Not to be facetious, but what, specifically, in their material do you deem to be hyperbolic? I ask this coming from the other side wanting, (the general you,) almost needing to understand where you (the personal you) are coming from and to a point the thought process behind your statement.
You state on one hand how useful their material is, to their members, but turn around and say they play dirty. Please expound and allow me the opportunity to understand.

I appreciate the question and wish I had a better more specific answer for you. This is my experience... my father had many guns and was an NRA member. I think guns are fun but im not a big hunter or self defense gun guy. I just enjoy making bottles blow up in the back yard kind of thing. My father passed 5 years ago and I’ve been helping my mom over the past few years which includes getting the mail for her. She still gets NRA letters in her box weekly. Occasionally I open and read them and they often make me laugh and shake my head at the talking points they spout out. I don't remember specifics or ide post them, I do very much remember my impressions when I’ve read them. I also get emails from Republican and Democrat candidates and both are full of the same kind of dishonest hyperbole.

I know through my dads experience with the NRA that they provide many useful tools for gun owners, it’s the political wing IMO that has done them a disservice and branded them as an extremist org

My heartfelt condolences fornyour loss. It's a tough row to hoe when we lose a parent. I wish you peace in your heart, for you and your family.
I will continue later.

Thanks for that. We may be coming at issues from separate sides but I appreciate the way you engage and the way you bring humanity into the debate. We are all brothers and sisters doing our best in this life. We may have different opinions on how to handle issues but my wish is that more of us can remember the things that bond us as humans so we can engage in a way that isn’t always good vs evil.

I look forward to future discussion. Cheers

 

[Muhammed]

I had to look up the definition of this one. Apparently, they're going to throw a temper tantrum and cause a disruption. Might be fun to watch on CSPAN

ˌhold the ˈfloor
speak at a public meeting, etc. for a long time, often stopping others from speaking:

hold the floor

"Senate Democrats are planning to hold the floor on Tuesday evening for an hours-long talk-a-thon on the issue of gun violence.

The floor marathon comes as the White House is struggling to find a place to land in the weeks-long debate over potential gun-law reforms.

“Many of my colleagues have seen their communities torn apart by gun violence; some by horrific mass shootings, others by a relentless, daily stream. Many of them have worked for years to bring commonsense gun safety measures before the Senate,” Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday, in announcing the plan from the Senate floor..."

Senate Democrats to hold the floor to protest inaction on gun violence

I don't know how that all works, but I think Republicans should just walk out until they're done. Let them hold the floor until November for all I care.

Is there any way Mitch can lock the senate doors from the outside?

Yep.

Lock them in the chamber and fumigate it with a pesticide.

Zyklon-B should do the trick.

 

[iceberg]

I grew up as an army brat. The town I graduated high school from, when I graduated, wasn't the biggest, but by no means was it a little huckleberry town. Gun racks with rifles and shot guns were "normal" and nobody messed with them. We had classes on gun safety, if I'm not mistaken they were part of the health classes we had to take. Nothing dedicated to an entire year muchless a semester.... Just part of a class somewhere, every year from early on. What was frown upon is if someone decided to bring a pistol onto school grounds....and it happened and was handled at the appropriate level at the time.

My military training has little to do with my attitude towards firearms. My preference for me to be able to defend me and mine yes... I prefer a ar 15 with a collapsible stock to allow for use in confined spaces, chambered for .308 as I have used the .223/5.56 and should I have to shoot someone, I only want to do it once... Not multiple times. Unless its absolutely necessary.

I don't know when schools got away from teaching firearm safety... Like I said, it was something that was touched upon from an early age for many of us. The vast amount of ignorance about firearms could be abated from an early age if those classes were brought back and taught to our kids. Instead of letting the lack of knowledge (re ignorance) be the rule and saying kids don't need to know.
Kids get all sorts of shit pushed down their proverbial throats, in the guise of education, tolerance, and understanding. I can tell you there were things my children had to "learn" I had grave reservations about... And no, I will not express what they were as they are very off targert here, but I will say they were under that very guise of "tolerence."
Bring back firearm education... I would even suggest allowing the NRA to assist, if not provide instructors, for the necessary classes.... That will be a very unpopular idea for a bunch on the left.... But the NRA isn't a bad guy organization and actually push for education and training... If folks would actually read for themselves what they do.

I don’t think you are far off base. You seem to be an intelligent guy with an open mind towards ideas to make our world a safer place. You are like most gun supporting Americans that I’ve encountered, many of which are close friends of mine. I believe there are more people in the middle on this issue than the wings. Unfortunately the wings are hogging the spotlight.

I also grew up in a small town where many of my friends and family owned guns. I think it is a good idea for schools to do gun safety education. Some still do... a few years ago a local high school 20 minutes from my house was doing a gun safety assembly and the demonstrator accidentally fired the gun in the room full of students. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I think the NRA was forced into a political stance based on the constant attacks by the left. The Dems can't use the "deplorable" strategy as they seen how it worked for them the last time. So instead of insulting every gun owning American, they do so by proxy through the NRA.

The NRA didn't draw first blood. It was the Democrats that came after them. So now they're in bed with the Republican party because the Republicans will support their cause.

They weren’t forced into anything. Come on Ray wake up. They are using the most effective and aggressive marketing tactics to progress their agenda. Same as our politicians are doing with their campaigning. Unfortunately that no longer involves catering to the middle. It’s all about firing up the extreme base and demonizing the other side. It’s unfortunate

Except the NRA was never considered an EXTREME organization until it suited the agenda of the left.

The left demonizing someone doesn't make it valid or true. Besides they HITLER NAZI RACIST everything. Why give them credibility for their bullshit NOW?

I dont care about what the “left” says. I’m going off of what I’ve seen in their mailings and advertisements

and i asked specifically what those were. i've seen them ask for money and i've seen them say they're keeping people from taking guns. money needed to help stop them from taking guns. i have NEVER seen mean/dirty/underhanded tricks or lies from them so i want to know what you saw to make you feel this way.

looks like you answered under damndude and what i got from it is nothing really stood out to be "memorable" - just an impression.

i know of very few out there today "catering to the middle" as you say. media certainly doesn't do it. no politician on either side is doing it that i know of. social media certainly doesn't. the left demonizes everything that stands against their views or values. the right flings religion like answers. nike, gillette, dicks sporting goods, walmart - all cater to the extremes these days.

to get mad at one organization doing this in a manner you can't remember kinda befuddles me. i can tell you what each and every one of those above have done to "tilt my views" so to speak and i'll pull a zztop before i ever shave with gillette products. i gave my nikes away to goodwill.

in short, i know why i'm upset with a given party and what they did to do that to me.

https://www.nralegalfacts.org
that site is simply talking legal facts going around.

from home.nra.org these are their "talking points"

the main newsfeed banner talks of statements from the CEO, standing up for freedom, SF "terrorism" news, Wayne LaPierre saying stand tall, wal mart changes policy...

1 - our fights are under attack like never before. join today.
well, they are. the whole WE ARE NOT COMING FOR YOUR GUNS myth is blown and "red flag" laws are bypassing due process.

2 - NRA-ILA - tireless defenders of your 2nd amendment rights. click on "view more" and you get beto saying HELL YEA WE ARE GOING TO TAKE YOUR AR-15. given the NRA *does* defend the 2nd amendment, i can't see this as out of line.

3 - NRA Publications - Find the NRA Mags that match your interests.

4 - NRAStore.com - get decals, clothing, gear and more.

5 - NRA - Ring of Freedom - dedicated to securing the future of freedom (give money)

6 - NRA Women. showing many women also engage in shooting as a sport.

i also see general news feeds from RSS sources about various gun stories presenting another side of guns you rarely see in a media that uses "pulsing ar15's with grenade launchers" to scare people away from guns. nothing nefarious here, just positive gun stories to show they are in fact, out there.

keep digging you again see beto HELL YES (sorry beto, that will haunt you for the rest of your career) and then SAY NO TO SEMI-AUTO BAN!!! and I AM NOT A TERRORIST. since the BOS in SF declared this org a "Terrorist Org" (no, not engaging in fear at all) they are simply talking about how they filed suit against SF for violating the 1st amendment.

i then see where to register for gun safety classes. private sales and explanations of selling firearms.

oh, here's a killer. skeet vs. sporting clays.

and that's all i see on their site. i see NOTHING that at least *I* would consider YOU MUST GIVE US EVERYTHING OR WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE on their website. when i get their stuff in the mail, yes it does say "we need your help to defend people coming after guns!" and given i *never* got this mail until i did join the NRA, i don't believe they send these out at random to others who have not asked for it.

if you want this to stop, simply call 877-NRA-2000 and ask to be removed. if e-mail click "unsubscribe" at the bottom all spam must have.

so while yes, i do tire of the GIVE US MONEY OR THEY WILL TAKE YOUR GUNS (closest thing i can ever call a "fear tactic" - is it true? do they need money to stop people from bypassing due process and simply banning guns they obviously do not understand?

so please help me understand how the NRA is some big monster that is out there scaring people as i simply do not see it. i get those mails, i reviewed their site. the bullrush is annoying but it is from ANYONE asking me for money; but when you have people out there coming for guns and the NRA is about the only org standing against the mob mentality, what would you expect them to do? are they lying? i've NEVER seen them lie so please tell me if you have.

also - i only get NRA mail 2-3 times a year that i know of and i can toss it just as easily as get mad at it.

so please first understand i appreciate the civil conversation we all seem to be having so far. *this* is what drives me to keep coming here and having to work around trolling assholes only here to stir shit up. but when you make a statement that to me holds no credibility or water, i will want to question is NOT to say you shouldn't feel this way, but to understand WHY you feel this way, and analyze that in our overall climate / culture.

so in short, in a culture of HELL YES WE ARE COMING FOR YOUR GUNS, GIVE US MONEY TO STOP THEM is hardly scaring people but moreso addressing the idiocy out there. at least, to me. it is for certain gun control IS a political issue. given that the only choice you have is to fight it, politically. and politics these days does in fact, suck.

and like damndude, my condolences for your loss. i'm at the point in my life both my parents have passed on and not even many years gone by can stop me from tearing up when i miss them.

 

[JWBooth]

Pull the trigger, lets go, shit or get off the pot, put up or shut up and all them other cliches.

 

[iceberg]

You have to consider that not everybody is a military trained vet like yourself. Some people get very scared when a gun is present. They see gun violence and don’t think, I need to get a gun to defend myself, they think I want to get guns off the streets and see less of them in my community. These are the people who support Betos cause and there are many of them.

I grew up as an army brat. The town I graduated high school from, when I graduated, wasn't the biggest, but by no means was it a little huckleberry town. Gun racks with rifles and shot guns were "normal" and nobody messed with them. We had classes on gun safety, if I'm not mistaken they were part of the health classes we had to take. Nothing dedicated to an entire year muchless a semester.... Just part of a class somewhere, every year from early on. What was frown upon is if someone decided to bring a pistol onto school grounds....and it happened and was handled at the appropriate level at the time.

My military training has little to do with my attitude towards firearms. My preference for me to be able to defend me and mine yes... I prefer a ar 15 with a collapsible stock to allow for use in confined spaces, chambered for .308 as I have used the .223/5.56 and should I have to shoot someone, I only want to do it once... Not multiple times. Unless its absolutely necessary.

I don't know when schools got away from teaching firearm safety... Like I said, it was something that was touched upon from an early age for many of us. The vast amount of ignorance about firearms could be abated from an early age if those classes were brought back and taught to our kids. Instead of letting the lack of knowledge (re ignorance) be the rule and saying kids don't need to know.
Kids get all sorts of shit pushed down their proverbial throats, in the guise of education, tolerance, and understanding. I can tell you there were things my children had to "learn" I had grave reservations about... And no, I will not express what they were as they are very off targert here, but I will say they were under that very guise of "tolerence."
Bring back firearm education... I would even suggest allowing the NRA to assist, if not provide instructors, for the necessary classes.... That will be a very unpopular idea for a bunch on the left.... But the NRA isn't a bad guy organization and actually push for education and training... If folks would actually read for themselves what they do.

I don’t think you are far off base. You seem to be an intelligent guy with an open mind towards ideas to make our world a safer place. You are like most gun supporting Americans that I’ve encountered, many of which are close friends of mine. I believe there are more people in the middle on this issue than the wings. Unfortunately the wings are hogging the spotlight.

I also grew up in a small town where many of my friends and family owned guns. I think it is a good idea for schools to do gun safety education. Some still do... a few years ago a local high school 20 minutes from my house was doing a gun safety assembly and the demonstrator accidentally fired the gun in the room full of students. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Unfortunately I think the NRA has disqualified themself’s from an objective and honest actor. I’ve seen their mailings and public messaging. They capitalize on fear mongering and demonizing hyperbolic talking points. Aside from that they do a great job with safety courses and education. That political element is polluting their mission IMO.

I think the NRA was forced into a political stance based on the constant attacks by the left. The Dems can't use the "deplorable" strategy as they seen how it worked for them the last time. So instead of insulting every gun owning American, they do so by proxy through the NRA.

The NRA didn't draw first blood. It was the Democrats that came after them. So now they're in bed with the Republican party because the Republicans will support their cause.

They weren’t forced into anything. Come on Ray wake up. They are using the most effective and aggressive marketing tactics to progress their agenda. Same as our politicians are doing with their campaigning. Unfortunately that no longer involves catering to the middle. It’s all about firing up the extreme base and demonizing the other side. It’s unfortunate

aggressive? like i said in my last war and peace post, i only get 2-3 a year on this. nothing in e-mail. and without specific examples to show "demonization" (aka, SF legally calling them a terrorist org, did i miss your outrage at this "demonization"?) then i'm at a loss of how to intelligently discuss with you things you can't remember or cite.

 

[CWayne]

The democrats won't put gang members on red flag lists and confiscate their guns. WTF?
Aren't they serious about reducing gun violence?
All they want is to collect rural law-abiding guns?
Gun control is dead without gang members on red flag lists.

Why do you think they don’t want gang members on red flag lists?

They just know if they pass a law, those gangbangers will hand in their guns all on their own. Like any good democrat would.
View attachment 279806

Sounds like you’re missing the point all together. If you think gun control advocates assume gang bangers will turn in their guns then you are a world away from understanding their position. Try listening more and talking less

then why do they keep saying they want them out of the hands of the criminals if "gang bangers" are not the intended "criminal"?

I don’t support confiscation but my understanding of their position is they see over the top dangerous weapons made for war being used in these mass shootings and they want to take them out of circulation. The criminal element is a separate problem that needs to be dealt with by law enforcement.

"over the top dangerous weapons made for war" is a classic definition of hyperbole.