Senate Democrats Claim to Have 60 Votes!

[Toronado3800]

Anyone who doesn't want this implemented better think of one heck of a plan. Seems America has no stomach for folks dying in the street instead of getting their new 60k kidney transplant.

I don't know what that plan is. Best I thought of was dumping or subsidizing a very large investment into mass producing MRI machines or coming up with ways to make transplants, chemo, and whatever treatment they come up with tomorrow more affordable.

 

[slackjawed]

Bring on the debate! Bring on the fact checking and let the people make their voice heard. That's how this is supposed to work. This vote was to allow debate on the floor of the senate. The next vote will be to stop the debate and allow the senate to vote. Yes that can be filibustered. The vote after that will be to decide if the vote passes or fails. Then there has to be a vote to reconcile the senate bill with the house bill.
One of the most damaging actions in my lifetime has been the creation of the federal department of public education. It dumbed down the schools and i offer some of the comments on this thread as proof.

 

[Liability]

Bring on the debate! Bring on the fact checking and let the people make their voice heard. That's how this is supposed to work. This vote was to allow debate on the floor of the senate. The next vote will be to stop the debate and allow the senate to vote. Yes that can be filibustered. The vote after that will be to decide if the vote passes or fails. Then there has to be a vote to reconcile the senate bill with the house bill.
One of the most damaging actions in my lifetime has been the creation of the federal department of public education. It dumbed down the schools and i offer some of the comments on this thread as proof.

The phrase you use, "Bring on the debate," translates quite specifically into "do not tolerate" the procedural mechanism of "filibuster."

Are you always opposed to filibusters?

 

[slackjawed]

Bring on the debate! Bring on the fact checking and let the people make their voice heard. That's how this is supposed to work. This vote was to allow debate on the floor of the senate. The next vote will be to stop the debate and allow the senate to vote. Yes that can be filibustered. The vote after that will be to decide if the vote passes or fails. Then there has to be a vote to reconcile the senate bill with the house bill.
One of the most damaging actions in my lifetime has been the creation of the federal department of public education. It dumbed down the schools and i offer some of the comments on this thread as proof.

The phrase you use, "Bring on the debate," translates quite specifically into "do not tolerate" the procedural mechanism of "filibuster."

Are you always opposed to filibusters?

Your interptetation of my words is wrong. I support the rules of proceadure that have been in place for some time. If the debate includes filibuster.- so be it!

 

[SFC Ollie]

The only way to have made any improvements on this Bill is to have killed it in committee.

 

[Liability]

Bring on the debate! Bring on the fact checking and let the people make their voice heard. That's how this is supposed to work. This vote was to allow debate on the floor of the senate. The next vote will be to stop the debate and allow the senate to vote. Yes that can be filibustered. The vote after that will be to decide if the vote passes or fails. Then there has to be a vote to reconcile the senate bill with the house bill.
One of the most damaging actions in my lifetime has been the creation of the federal department of public education. It dumbed down the schools and i offer some of the comments on this thread as proof.

The phrase you use, "Bring on the debate," translates quite specifically into "do not tolerate" the procedural mechanism of "filibuster."

Are you always opposed to filibusters?

Your interptetation of my words is wrong. I support the rules of proceadure that have been in place for some time. If the debate includes filibuster.- so be it!

The 60 votes to "bring on the debate" ends any hope of filibuster.

Thus the bill will get voted on -- in whatever from and the form does not matter. It will get an up or down vote by a smple majority.

NEXT, it will have to be "reconciled" with the House version.

The reconciliation version will ALSO get an up or down vote with no hope that a filibuster can kill it.

Accordingly, the "bill" in its final form WILL pass with the only question being what precise form it will take. And under present circumstances, the prospects for it being ANYTHING other than the darkest rawest ugliest smelliest most Marxist piece of crap to ever be squeezed through the buttcheeks of Congress are slim to none.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There will not be much the Republicans can do. This mess will go through. We all will start to pay additional taxes and the benefit if you want to call it that will not be felt for at least another 4 years.
the Libs will be patting themselves on the back on the Sunday talk shows tomorrow.

Time to have faith, and take a little trip down memory lane.

Remember the Immigration Bill that both parties signed onto?

And it got 64 votes to allow debate?

Well, the American people spoke loud and clear, and...


"A procedural vote in the Senate today effectively killed the controversial immigration reform bill crafted by the White House, Democrats and key Republican leaders.
The tally fell 14 votes short of the 60 needed to invoke cloture, which would have cut off debate, leading to a final vote requiring only a simply majority.

Members of both parties on Capitol Hill have said the issue is unlikely to be addressed again until after the 2008 presidential election.

President Bush seemed to accept that fate after an appearance in Newport, R.I.

Tuesday, the Senate voted 64-35 to resurrect the legislation, including 24 Republicans, 39 Democrats and independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut. In opposition were 25 Republicans, nine Democrats and independent Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont. Two weeks ago, only 45 senators supported a vote for cloture that would cut off debate and proceed to a vote. "

Immigration bill dead in Senate

 

[SFC Ollie]

There will not be much the Republicans can do. This mess will go through. We all will start to pay additional taxes and the benefit if you want to call it that will not be felt for at least another 4 years.
the Libs will be patting themselves on the back on the Sunday talk shows tomorrow.

Time to have faith, and take a little trip down memory lane.

Remember the Immigration Bill that both parties signed onto?

And it got 64 votes to allow debate?

Well, the American people spoke loud and clear, and...


"A procedural vote in the Senate today effectively killed the controversial immigration reform bill crafted by the White House, Democrats and key Republican leaders.
The tally fell 14 votes short of the 60 needed to invoke cloture, which would have cut off debate, leading to a final vote requiring only a simply majority.

Members of both parties on Capitol Hill have said the issue is unlikely to be addressed again until after the 2008 presidential election.

President Bush seemed to accept that fate after an appearance in Newport, R.I.

Tuesday, the Senate voted 64-35 to resurrect the legislation, including 24 Republicans, 39 Democrats and independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut. In opposition were 25 Republicans, nine Democrats and independent Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont. Two weeks ago, only 45 senators supported a vote for cloture that would cut off debate and proceed to a vote. "

Immigration bill dead in Senate

I suppose we need to start writing, and calling. Although I think my congressman and both Senators have a special file set up for anything they receive from me. If they printed out my emails they could wallpaper their offices with them.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There will not be much the Republicans can do. This mess will go through. We all will start to pay additional taxes and the benefit if you want to call it that will not be felt for at least another 4 years.
the Libs will be patting themselves on the back on the Sunday talk shows tomorrow.

Time to have faith, and take a little trip down memory lane.

Remember the Immigration Bill that both parties signed onto?

And it got 64 votes to allow debate?

Well, the American people spoke loud and clear, and...


"A procedural vote in the Senate today effectively killed the controversial immigration reform bill crafted by the White House, Democrats and key Republican leaders.
The tally fell 14 votes short of the 60 needed to invoke cloture, which would have cut off debate, leading to a final vote requiring only a simply majority.

Members of both parties on Capitol Hill have said the issue is unlikely to be addressed again until after the 2008 presidential election.

President Bush seemed to accept that fate after an appearance in Newport, R.I.

Tuesday, the Senate voted 64-35 to resurrect the legislation, including 24 Republicans, 39 Democrats and independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut. In opposition were 25 Republicans, nine Democrats and independent Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont. Two weeks ago, only 45 senators supported a vote for cloture that would cut off debate and proceed to a vote. "

Immigration bill dead in Senate

I suppose we need to start writing, and calling. Although I think my congressman and both Senators have a special file set up for anything they receive from me. If they printed out my emails they could wallpaper their offices with them.

I'm in an even worse position, the People's Republic of New York is in the Democrat Death Grip.

Senator Schumer just sends "Thank you for your input, you can be sure your concerns are in my thoughts..."

Not.

 

[slackjawed]

The phrase you use, "Bring on the debate," translates quite specifically into "do not tolerate" the procedural mechanism of "filibuster."

Are you always opposed to filibusters?

Your interptetation of my words is wrong. I support the rules of proceadure that have been in place for some time. If the debate includes filibuster.- so be it!

The 60 votes to "bring on the debate" ends any hope of filibuster.

Thus the bill will get voted on -- in whatever from and the form does not matter. It will get an up or down vote by a smple majority.


NEXT, it will have to be "reconciled" with the House version.

The reconciliation version will ALSO get an up or down vote with no hope that a filibuster can kill it.

Accordingly, the "bill" in its final form WILL pass with the only question being what precise form it will take. And under present circumstances, the prospects for it being ANYTHING other than the darkest rawest ugliest smelliest most Marxist piece of crap to ever be squeezed through the buttcheeks of Congress are slim to none.

simply wrong again. I blame the american educational system and am certain you went to public school.

 

[Liability]

Your interptetation of my words is wrong. I support the rules of proceadure that have been in place for some time. If the debate includes filibuster.- so be it!

The 60 votes to "bring on the debate" ends any hope of filibuster.

Thus the bill will get voted on -- in whatever from and the form does not matter. It will get an up or down vote by a smple majority.


NEXT, it will have to be "reconciled" with the House version.

The reconciliation version will ALSO get an up or down vote with no hope that a filibuster can kill it.

Accordingly, the "bill" in its final form WILL pass with the only question being what precise form it will take. And under present circumstances, the prospects for it being ANYTHING other than the darkest rawest ugliest smelliest most Marxist piece of crap to ever be squeezed through the buttcheeks of Congress are slim to none.

simply wrong again. I blame the american educational system and am certain you went to public school.

Your ability to cobble together words into random meaningless blather is duly noted.

At debate, of course, you suck worse than a porn starlette on crack.

I don't blame the public education system for your massive failure. I blame you. You are just a fucking lump.

Although this too will sail over your sub-atomic sized mind at light speed, you should also be advised that I am not wrong at all ("simply" or otherwise, ya fucking simpleton shitbrain). I am absolutely correct about the import of what happened in the Senate yesterday. The one who is "wrong" is you and that's probably because you blindly accept the pablum spoon fed to you by the nanny state lame stream media.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Time to have faith, and take a little trip down memory lane.

Remember the Immigration Bill that both parties signed onto?

And it got 64 votes to allow debate?

Well, the American people spoke loud and clear, and...


"A procedural vote in the Senate today effectively killed the controversial immigration reform bill crafted by the White House, Democrats and key Republican leaders.
The tally fell 14 votes short of the 60 needed to invoke cloture, which would have cut off debate, leading to a final vote requiring only a simply majority.

Members of both parties on Capitol Hill have said the issue is unlikely to be addressed again until after the 2008 presidential election.

President Bush seemed to accept that fate after an appearance in Newport, R.I.

Tuesday, the Senate voted 64-35 to resurrect the legislation, including 24 Republicans, 39 Democrats and independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut. In opposition were 25 Republicans, nine Democrats and independent Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont. Two weeks ago, only 45 senators supported a vote for cloture that would cut off debate and proceed to a vote. "

Immigration bill dead in Senate

I suppose we need to start writing, and calling. Although I think my congressman and both Senators have a special file set up for anything they receive from me. If they printed out my emails they could wallpaper their offices with them.

I'm in an even worse position, the People's Republic of New York is in the Democrat Death Grip.

Senator Schumer just sends "Thank you for your input, you can be sure your conserns are in my thoughts..."

Not.

I get pretty much the same thing from Senator Brown.

"I appreciate your sharing your thoughts, and I will certainly keep your views in mind"

 

[slackjawed]

Thanks liability for showing me the ignore list- you made it!

 

[Liability]

Thanks liability for showing me the ignore list- you made it!

Slackbrained: I cannot help it that an imbecile such as you has to run away and hide when confronted with truth.

But I DO take a measure of satisfaction in knowing that I caused you to run and hide, ya fucking pussay!

And I REALLY chuckle when I realize that if I get quoted, by any other USMB members, my words will still make you whimper in futile rage!

Stomp those widdle feetsies, now, you pansy!

 

[Navy1960]

The process is as follows, while last evenings vote required 60 votes to begin debate on the measure ,

Regardless of the provisions of Rule II or Rule IV or any other rule of the Senate, at any time a motion signed by 16 Senators, to bring to a close the debate upon any measure, motion, other matter pending before the Senate, or the unfinished business, is presented to the Senate.

The Presiding Officer, or Clerk at the direction of the Presiding Officer, shall immediately state the motion to the Senate body, and one hour after the Senate meets on the following calendar day but one, he shall lay the motion before the Senate and direct that the clerk call the roll, and upon the ascertainment that a quorum is present.

Without debate, the Presiding Officer shall then submit to the Senate by a yea-and-nay vote the question: "Is it the sense of the Senate that the debate shall be brought to a close?"

If that question is decided in the affirmative by three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn -- except on a measure or motion to amend the Senate rules, in which case the necessary affirmative vote shall be two-thirds of the Senators present and voting -- then said measure, motion, or other matter pending before the Senate, or the unfinished business, shall be the unfinished business to the exclusion of all other business until disposed of..

Standing Rules of the United States Senate, Rule XXII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Filibuster..

In current practice, Senate Rule 22 permits filibusters in which actual continuous floor speeches are not required, although the Senate Majority Leader may require an actual traditional filibuster if he or she so chooses[citation needed]. This threat of a filibuster where no floor speech and no quorum is required may, therefore, be more powerful than an actual filibuster, which would require attendance by a quorum of Senators as well as the physical presence of the Senators speaking.

Previously, the filibustering senator(s) could delay voting only by making an endless speech. Currently, they only need to indicate that they are filibustering, thereby preventing the Senate from moving on to other business until the motion is withdrawn or enough votes are gathered for cloture.

Filibuster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rule 22
The filibuster is related to "cloture," a rule adopted almost 100 years ago requiring a two-thirds vote. At times this was two-thirds of those voting; for a limited time, it was two-thirds of membership.

In 1975, the Senate reduced the number of votes needed to invoke cloture to three-fifths (60) of Senate membership. At the same time, they made the filibuster "invisible" by requiring only that 41 Senators state that they intend to filibuster; critics say this makes the modern filibuster "painless."

So while the actual bill only requires a simple majority to pass, it still muist clear at least one more 60 vote hurdle into order to end debate on the bill and proceed to a vote. thats provided that a "hold" has not been placed on the bill which can be done by any Senator.

Sections 2 and 3 of Rule VII (Morning Business) of the Standing Rules of the Senate outline the procedure for bringing motions to the floor of the Senate. Under these rules, "no motion to proceed to the consideration of any bill...shall be entertained...unless by unanimous consent". In practice, this means that a Senator may privately provide notice to their party leadership of their intent to object to a motion. At that point, the motion cannot proceed because unanimous consent has not been reached, even though the Senator has not publicly announced their intent to object. This allows a Senator to remain anonymous while preventing the motion from going forward.

So while its correct to say that the measure would pass and there is no doubt about that if a simple majority is required for final passage. However it has not reached that point and is far from it. If for example, cloture is invoked and it fails to get the required 60 votes to invoke colture the bill can be sent back to committee, killed, or set aside, or can even extend debate on it. Bottom line here is this, this healthcare so called "reform" is far from final passage and is far from law until such time as ALL of the issues with it are settled and that won't be for some time.

 

[Liability]

Navy:

The vote yesterday to proceed with the debate WAS a vote to invoke cloture. It passed. Filibuster is no longer available as a tool to prevent the passage of the Health Bill.

See, for example: Leahy Will Vote To End Health Bill Filibuster, Plans To Offer Amendment To End Health Insurers' Antitrust Exemption | Press Releases | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com

Leahy knew what he was voting on. He was terminating the filibuster.

And when the Senate now passes a Health bill in ANY form, it will have to be reconciled with the House version.

I trust you understand and agree that the Rules will NOT permit a filibuster on a reconciliation vote.

Thus, there is no longer the filibuster tool available to opponents of this Marxist legislation.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I don't know the Senate rules, don't pretend to be an expert in Government. But I certainly hope that we still have a shot at stopping this disaster.

I just can't understand why anyone would want this type of program at this time. We need jobs a lot more than we need a change in healthcare.

In fact I bet that if unemployment were back at 5 % or less at least 50% of those uninsured would suddenly have insurance again. And it wouldn't cost a trillion dollars or so.

 

[oreo]

Senate Democrats assured of 60 votes to debate health bill - CNN.com

If this is true they will defeat the filibuster. Although I think a public option is a good thing, this bill is a disaster! Its puts so much pressure and financial responsibility, on the already pressed and cash strapped, small businesses. It's not going to be pretty. Hit the business community any more and we could be headed towards a depression.

I really don't see how anyone could like this bill. A 40% tax on Americans who currently have insurance--(that pay over 8500.00 per year for their plans, which is about everyone.) Even the unions are having a fit about that one--because they say it will only excalate insurance premiums.

Small businesse's are not going to be able to afford this. Meaning they will cut back on expenditures for new hires, or lower wages to existing employees to pay for it.

Then to continually threaten to tax the over 250K crowd which only represents 5% of this nation now--also hits small business people.

As Mitch McConnell stated today--the threats toward small business in this country since this administration took office--higher taxes--now health care. Who is going to expand with these constant threats--or even risk opening a new small business.

This administration is so anti-business it's flat unbelievable. They have in effect--declared war on business in this country. It's like this administration is out to bankrupt every business in this country.

 

[Navy1960]

Navy:

The vote yesterday to proceed with the debate WAS a vote to invoke cloture. It passed. Filibuster is no longer available as a tool to prevent the passage of the Health Bill.

See, for example: Leahy Will Vote To End Health Bill Filibuster, Plans To Offer Amendment To End Health Insurers' Antitrust Exemption | Press Releases | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com

Leahy knew what he was voting on. He was terminating the filibuster.

And when the Senate now passes a Health bill in ANY form, it will have to be reconciled with the House version.

I trust you understand and agree that the Rules will NOT permit a filibuster on a reconciliation vote.

Thus, there is no longer the filibuster tool available to opponents of this Marxist legislation.

That was a motion to Invoke Cloture on the motion to proceed with debate, they still must vote on another motion to end debate and as such does not limit any Senator(s) from a Filibuster. The real sneaky part of this is how they attached the bill,
H.R.3590
Title: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to modify the first-time homebuyers credit in the case of members of the Armed Forces and certain other Federal employees, and for other purposes.
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

That is the bill in which they have latched on to in order to slip the healthcare bill in , in order to get around many procedure measures that are required of any bill in the US Senate. Here is a link on the motion they voted on last night,.
Democrats.senate.gov - Senator Harry Reid, Majority Leader

It's on a motion to proceed to debate not Cloture on the healthcare bill, in fact the bill they invoked cloture on is not even a healthcare bill. It's the Service Members Homeowners Tax Act. It's a slick little procedure, rather like the way they used the Defense budget as a method to pass social legislation.

 

[asaratis]

The 60 votes to "bring on the debate" ends any hope of filibuster.

Thus the bill will get voted on -- in whatever from and the form does not matter. It will get an up or down vote by a smple majority.


NEXT, it will have to be "reconciled" with the House version.

The reconciliation version will ALSO get an up or down vote with no hope that a filibuster can kill it.

Accordingly, the "bill" in its final form WILL pass with the only question being what precise form it will take. And under present circumstances, the prospects for it being ANYTHING other than the darkest rawest ugliest smelliest most Marxist piece of crap to ever be squeezed through the buttcheeks of Congress are slim to none.

simply wrong again. I blame the american educational system and am certain you went to public school.

Your ability to cobble together words into random meaningless blather is duly noted.

At debate, of course, you suck worse than a porn starlette on crack.

I don't blame the public education system for your massive failure. I blame you. You are just a fucking lump.

Although this too will sail over your sub-atomic sized mind at light speed, you should also be advised that I am not wrong at all ("simply" or otherwise, ya fucking simpleton shitbrain). I am absolutely correct about the import of what happened in the Senate yesterday. The one who is "wrong" is you and that's probably because you blindly accept the pablum spoon fed to you by the nanny state lame stream media.

Thanks liability for showing me the ignore list- you made it!

Slackbrained: I cannot help it that an imbecile such as you has to run away and hide when confronted with truth.

But I DO take a measure of satisfaction in knowing that I caused you to run and hide, ya fucking pussay!

And I REALLY chuckle when I realize that if I get quoted, by any other USMB members, my words will still make you whimper in futile rage!

Stomp those widdle feetsies, now, you pansy!

Take a chill pill, man. You're comin' across like a dimwitted, liberal "debater". Besides, the man is right.