Security Clearance for gays? Only on Fox

[CrimsonWhite]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188035,00.html

Foxnews has to be the only ones on the planet, besides Limbaugh, that would think this a story. Must've been a slow news day.

 

[007]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188035,00.html

Foxnews has to be the only ones on the planet, besides Limbaugh, that would think this a story. Must've been a slow news day.

You obviously thought enough of it to post it here...

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I like to invoke debate, no matter what the subject. I personally don't care If gays have security clearance. It's not like they are giving Top Secret clearance to Elton John and George Micheal. Is a gay person more likely to give the Chinese military secrets than say.....President Clinton?

 

[GotZoom]

Not sure what your background is but financial irresponsiblity along with sexual behaviour are two areas focused upon when granting security clearances.

Even Barney Frank admits (from the article you posted):

"Of course, sexual misbehavior could be a grounds for denying a security clearance," he said. "But that's irrelevant as to whether the misbehavior is gay or straight, unless you think that sexual behavior by gay people is inherently misbehavior."

The government isn't saying that homosexuals are a security risk. They are stating that their sexual behaviour, along with straight people, could be a security risk.

They look at things that could possibly lead to blackmail by a foreign government against a member of the military/government who has a security clearance.

Foreign governments target people with security clearances. They will send in women/men to purposely tempt individuals with clearances to have affairs - all while on tape - in order to blackmail then.

Foreign Governments also dig into people's background to see if they are on the brink of financial disaster - then tempt them with money in exchange for information.

The change in wording in a non-issue.

 

[007]

I like to invoke debate, no matter what the subject. I personally don't care If gays have security clearance. It's not like they are giving Top Secret clearance to Elton John and George Micheal. Is a gay person more likely to give the Chinese military secrets than say.....President Clinton?

Well, queer's sexual behavior is much more promiscuous than normal people. I can see where that can be construed as someone who is more susceptible to temptation, or coercion. Not good traits when it comes to security.

Regardless of that fact, you appear to have another agenda other than just invoke debate. You had to bash Fox News and Rush in your original post. That makes me think you're a liberal.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Sexual prefrence has NEVER really been addressed in this subject.
I don't see this as a requirement for getting a clearance, but it
might be a way to loose one. It makes some sense if you look at it this way.
If your sexual prefrence is unknown to the majority of the public then you
could be susceptible to blackmail. I don't see this as a personal attack, more
like a safety precaution.

 

[JOKER96BRAVO]

Not sure what your background is but financial irresponsiblity along with sexual behaviour are two areas focused upon when granting security clearances.

Even Barney Frank admits (from the article you posted):

"Of course, sexual misbehavior could be a grounds for denying a security clearance," he said. "But that's irrelevant as to whether the misbehavior is gay or straight, unless you think that sexual behavior by gay people is inherently misbehavior."

The government isn't saying that homosexuals are a security risk. They are stating that their sexual behaviour, along with straight people, could be a security risk.

They look at things that could possibly lead to blackmail by a foreign government against a member of the military/government who has a security clearance.

Foreign governments target people with security clearances. They will send in women/men to purposely tempt individuals with clearances to have affairs - all while on tape - in order to blackmail then.

Foreign Governments also dig into people's background to see if they are on the brink of financial disaster - then tempt them with money in exchange for information.

The change in wording in a non-issue.

I should have read your entire post before putiing my two cents in.
Well said.
Finances are a huge factor in obtaining a clearance.

 

[KarlMarx]

Is a gay person more likely to give the Chinese military secrets than say.....President Clinton?

The answer is "yes", because foreign agents use it as a means to exploit.

It's not because of homophobia, it's because of national security.

If a gay is closeted and does not want to be exposed, agents can, and have, used it as a means to obtain classified information. One case involved a communications officer on a nuclear submarine, who had a one night stand with another man. It turned out the other man worked for the KGB and secretly recorded it. The communications officer fed the agent classified information to avoid being exposed.

Similarly, a person with financial problems can become the target of foreign agents. This is more likely to happen. I believe that some of the big spy cases e.g. Aldrich Ames etc happened because of money problems.

Anything that makes a person a potential victim for blackmail by foreign intelligence is reason enough to deny a security clearance or revoke one.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Regardless of that fact, you appear to have another agenda other than just invoke debate. You had to bash Fox News and Rush in your original post. That makes me think you're a liberal.

So I'm labeled a liberal because I "bashed" Limbaugh and Fox News? I watch Fox News regurlarly for comedic value. When it is on my television, my house leans to the right. I enjoy Limbaugh's passion, but he can be pretty condescending. He has more in common with Al Franken and Molly Ivins than he thinks, in that respect.

Am I a liberal? No. I'm a moderate. I'm a member of the RNC, College Republicans, and have worked on three congressional campaigns for Republican candidates. Of course this means nothing because the conservative right have been known to label John McCain, Christie Whitman, and other moderates as liberals.

Here is what I believe. I will let you decide.

I believe tax cuts leave money in the pockets of the average Americans that have earned it. When tax cuts are combined with restrained spending and a balanced budget, it can only stimulate the economy.

I think we need an engaged foreign policy and a strong national defense.

I think one of the roles of government is to protect the environment.

I also believe the government should respect the individuality of it's citizens by limiting government interference in their daily lives.

If this is a liberalism, then well..... so be it. But the last time I checked, it wasn't.

I was simply trying to make a point that there is no "fair and balanced" news coverage anymore. CNN is to the left as Fox News is to the right.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

The answer is "yes", because foreign agents use it as a means to exploit.

It's not because of homophobia, it's because of national security.

If a gay is closeted and does not want to be exposed, agents can, and have, used it as a means to obtain classified information. One case involved a communications officer on a nuclear submarine, who had a one night stand with another man. It turned out the other man worked for the KGB and secretly recorded it. The communications officer fed the agent classified information to avoid being exposed.

Similarly, a person with financial problems can become the target of foreign agents. This is more likely to happen. I believe that some of the big spy cases e.g. Aldrich Ames etc happened because of money problems.

Anything that makes a person a potential victim for blackmail by foreign intelligence is reason enough to deny a security clearance or revoke one.

You guys sold me. I wasn't thinking of the blackmail angle. That said, isn't it just as likely for married, hetero civil servants that are engaged in less than faithful activities to be just as susceptible?

 

[Mr. P]

You guys sold me. I wasn't thinking of the blackmail angle. That said, isn't it just as likely for married, hetero civil servants that are engaged in less than faithful activities to be just as susceptible?

Yes it is, and believe me these things are watched and if they occur clearance is pulled. Of course there are variables..Type of clearance, location etc...
When I held a clearance if you couldn't pay your bills or filed bankrupcy you lost it.
If married and having an affair, you lost it.

I could tell you more, but then I'd have to kill ya.

 

[GotZoom]

You guys sold me. I wasn't thinking of the blackmail angle. That said, isn't it just as likely for married, hetero civil servants that are engaged in less than faithful activities to be just as susceptible?

That is the exact point. The government/military doesn't care if it is gay/gay or hetero/hetero or bi/gay or bi/bi or..(did I leave anything out?)...they care if that person has done something that will open them up to possible blackmail.

The ones of us on the board who have had high level security clearances can vouch for me on this. It is huge. The background checks alone take quite a while and cost in excess of six figures. They drill and drill into your head about security. You don't even give a base telephone directory to a foreign national.

A DUI will result in suspension of clearance. I knew a high ranking enlisted gentleman who was consistantly late on paying his NCO club bills. Clearance pulled - financial irresponsibility

The government doesn't play when it comes to this.

 

[Mr. P]

That is the exact point. The government/military doesn't care if it is gay/gay or hetero/hetero or bi/gay or bi/bi or..(did I leave anything out?)...they care if that person has done something that will open them up to possible blackmail.

The ones of us on the board who have had high level security clearances can vouch for me on this. It is huge. The background checks alone take quite a while and cost in excess of six figures. They drill and drill into your head about security. You don't even give a base telephone directory to a foreign national.

A DUI will result in suspension of clearance. I knew a high ranking enlisted gentleman who was consistantly late on paying his NCO club bills. Clearance pulled - financial irresponsibility

The government doesn't play when it comes to this.

I totally forgot about those two items...ahhhhhh the memories.

 

[007]

So I'm labeled a liberal because I "bashed" Limbaugh and Fox News? I watch Fox News regurlarly for comedic value. When it is on my television, my house leans to the right. I enjoy Limbaugh's passion, but he can be pretty condescending. He has more in common with Al Franken and Molly Ivins than he thinks, in that respect.

Am I a liberal? No. I'm a moderate. I'm a member of the RNC, College Republicans, and have worked on three congressional campaigns for Republican candidates. Of course this means nothing because the conservative right have been known to label John McCain, Christie Whitman, and other moderates as liberals.

Here is what I believe. I will let you decide.

I believe tax cuts leave money in the pockets of the average Americans that have earned it. When tax cuts are combined with restrained spending and a balanced budget, it can only stimulate the economy.

I think we need an engaged foreign policy and a strong national defense.

I think one of the roles of government is to protect the environment.

I also believe the government should respect the individuality of it's citizens by limiting government interference in their daily lives.

If this is a liberalism, then well..... so be it. But the last time I checked, it wasn't.

I was simply trying to make a point that there is no "fair and balanced" news coverage anymore. CNN is to the left as Fox News is to the right.

I said it makes me "think" you're a liberal. I didn't "label" you as one, or at least I didn't mean to.

I believe what you're saying about what and who you are, and what you beleive. It's all good. However, it does leave me wondering why, then, that you'd say that Fox News is "comedic" to you. I think Fox News is pretty much right on the money. Yes I'm a right winger, but I don't know how of a Republican I am. I can get pretty disgusted with Republicans, but that remains a far cry from how disgusting I think liberals are.