Scott Ritter Believes Russia's Winning in Ukraine

[badger2]

Alliance for peace?

Not for nothing but Russia is currently in the midst of a failed invasion and the only success Russia is really having is bombing cities. Kind of what they did in Georgia and Chechnya. Nothing peaceful about it.

In the meantime NATO is stronger than ever and more countries are showing interest in joining.

Not sure if you're aware but most of the entire world is against Russia on this. China and Russia also have their issues with each other such as border disputes and well, frankly they don't trust each other.

You guys really drunk the kool-aid.

American automatons drank the kool-aid when Truman did a theologian imitation and got the prisoners to chant the mantra "invasion" about Korea, a war that marks the origin of NATO's effeminate, expansive violence.

 

[Lesh]

Yes, I see this as Nato's aggression through expansion toward Russia's borders.

The MAD factor that has saved the world from a major war is being challenged by both sides in this war. America through it's Ukraine proxy vs. Russia.

My opinion is consistent with the opinions of writers whose articles are posted at antiwar.com.

My position on this war is not on one side or the other winning the war, it's in ending the war in a satisfactory way that satisfies both sides.

I'm really not sure of how that can happen quite yet, but I can make some suggestions.

You would see things that way but then you’re a sock puppet

 

[theHawk]

Looks to be a russian asset much in the vein of Candice Owens and Tulsi Gabbard.

That's a shame.

A Russian asset for stating the obvious?

Do you think Ukraine is winning this war?

 

[HappyJoy]

Yes, I see this as Nato's aggression through expansion toward Russia's borders.

Aggression? Are we forcing these countries to join or just maybe many of them do not want to be stuck on the wrong side of iron curtain 2.0? What countries has NATO attacked and forced them to join? Zero? OK.

The MAD factor that has saved the world from a major war is being challenged by both sides in this war. America through it's Ukraine proxy vs. Russia.

No, it's not. Only one side (your side presumably) has made nuclear threats.

My opinion is consistent with the opinions of writers whose articles are posted at antiwar.com.

Are you and why should anyone care?

My position on this war is not on one side or the other winning the war, it's in ending the war in a satisfactory way that satisfies both sides.

You talk about both sides like it's an equal thing and one didn't invade the other.

I'm really not sure of how that can happen quite yet, but I can make some suggestions.

Russia needs an exit and most likely will peel off the eastern territories. Well, at least I think. Two weeks ago it seems we figured out Russia doesn't have the capability to take Kiev and now Ukrainian forces are have success with counter attacks. So, I don't even think the worst case scenario for Russia from a couple of weeks ago is all that guaranteed. No matter what happens Russia has crippled it's economy and it's not going to roar back once this is over as the rest of Europe is going to continue to untether itself economically for strategic reasons and that is all Russia's fault.

 

[HappyJoy]

American automatons drank the kool-aid when Truman did a theologian imitation and got the prisoners to chant the mantra "invasion" about Korea, a war that marks the origin of NATO's effeminate, expansive violence.

Oh, this is 2022, not 1950.

BTW, South Korea has it pretty good. How is the North doing comrade?

 

[HappyJoy]

Your mistake is that you take the ad hominem bait while throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We don't give a flying rat's rear-end if Ritter, like Rimbaud, is a lecher. We intelligently look at the objective science, the objective value of the material concerning an illegitimate state since 2014.

Objective science? Then you call Ukraine an illegitimate state. Straight out of the Kremlin.

You're ignoring evidence of Russia's defeat and the reason you're doing it is because some people just like dictators.

 

[Donald H]

Russia needs an exit and most likely will peel off the eastern territories. Well, at least I think.

That's highly optimistic of you. I only wish it could be so easy and so safely settled. But it isn't and you have failed to award any small victories to America, or the Ukraine if you insist it's not America's war against Russia.

Is it now my job to award some small victories to America/the Ukraine? I'll try.

America has moved closer to Russia's borders through it's gaining of a part of Ukraine.
The Ukraine will become a Nato country within no more than 2 years. (the obvious solution even though America couldn't possibly agree)

Perhaps some others can imagine some other satisfactory conclusions that can become a part of the peace.

But I caution: If part of the Ukraine becomes a Nato country then the peace will be impressed on both sides, through the strength of Article 5.

To America: An injury to one is an injury to all.

To Russia: An aggression on one is an aggression against all.

Thereby making another war impossible! America wouldn't want that would it?

 

[HappyJoy]

That's highly optimistic of you. I only wish it could be so easy and so safely settled. But it isn't and you have failed to award any small victories to America, or the Ukraine if you insist it's not America's war against Russia.

Who said anything about easy or safely settled?

Is it now my job to award some small victories to America/the Ukraine? I'll try.

America has moved closer to Russia's borders through it's gaining of a part of Ukraine.
The Ukraine will become a Nato country within no more than 2 years. (the obvious solution even though America couldn't possibly agree)

I don't know that Ukraine was ever going to be apart of NATO. Probably less likely now, or at least delayed by years. There is no way NATO is going to let Ukraine in if they have any current border disputes and even after this war ends, there will still be disputes.

Perhaps some others can imagine some other satisfactory conclusions that can become a part of the peace.

But I caution: If part of the Ukraine becomes a Nato country then the peace will be impressed on both sides, through the strength of Article 5.

It's Ukraine, not the Ukraine. I'd like to see Ukraine become part of the EU, in that sense they can help build up their economy.

To America: An injury to one is an injury to all.

To Russia: An aggression on one is an aggression against all.

Thereby making another war impossible! America wouldn't want that would it?

In some respect I think Russia would love to have NATO forces get involved in Ukraine. Losing to NATO at least Russia lost to something more than a third rate economically depressed military. Then Russia could continue with it's whiny grievance campaign against NATO.

However losing to Ukraine outright, that looks very bad for Russia.

 

[Redfish]

Why would they? What a weird thing to say.

Did we win the Vietnam war?

that is the only way Ukraine can "win". they cannot defeat Russia by staying within Ukraine. Russia will win that battle hands down.

no we did not win Vietnam, we declared defeat and came home, same in Afghanistan. Why do you want another one?

 

[HappyJoy]

that is the only way Ukraine can "win". they cannot defeat Russia by staying within Ukraine. Russia will win that battle hands down.

no we did not win Vietnam, we declared defeat and came home, same in Afghanistan. Why do you want another one?

According to your logic Vietnam couldn't have won unless they invaded Washington D.C.

 

[Redfish]

According to your logic Vietnam couldn't have won unless they invaded Washington D.C.

not a valid analogy, but nice try, maybe when you grow up you will understand, or maybe not. We lost vietnam because we did not try to win it. We could have ended it in a week if we really wanted to. Viet nam did not win, we folded.

 

[georgephillip]

But to argue that Ukraine is now a “Nazi state” is absurd. One might as well argue Poland or Hungary are Nazi states. Indeed, Russia itself has a strong and growing fascist base, and a state apparatus that has many attributes of fascism. Ukraine is now increasingly fiercely anti-Russian, yes. But this is hardly surprising considering Putin’s invasion.

Nazis in Ukraine poll around 2%-3% in elections, but they make up a very effective fighting force both in the streets and the front lines.

Zelensky was elected partially on a platform to de-escalate the conflict in Donbas.

Neo_Nazis under his command objected:

How Ukraine's Jewish president Zelensky made peace with neo-Nazi paramilitaries on front lines of war with Russia - The Grayzone

"In a face-to-face confrontation with militants from the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion who had launched a campaign to sabotage the peace initiative called 'No to Capitulation,' Zelensky encountered a wall of obstinacy.

"With appeals for disengagement from the frontlines firmly rejected, Zelensky melted down on camera. 'I’m the president of this country. I’m 41 years old. I’m not a loser. I came to you and told you: remove the weapons,' Zelensky implored the fighters."

 

[badger2]

Oh, this is 2022, not 1950.

BTW, South Korea has it pretty good. How is the North doing comrade?

None of your mouthy ahistorical cynicism changes the fact of the pathology pointed out. Truman was a psychopath that got many puppets to dance by reifying a signifier, just as does any other theologian-pimp. Ueber das Marionettentheater.

 

[georgephillip]

"As soon as the Russian forces take the city of Mariupol under control, the Kiev regime will fall. The capture of Mariupol and its complete liberation from the Ukrainian neo-nazis is of great importance for the Russian Army."

Odessa by October

 

[georgephillip]

Ritter is probably correct about groups of neo-nazis positioned in all areas of the Ukraine military, top to bottom.

There's an old workplace adage I've heard for my entire life (74 years) to the effect that 20% of employees perform 80% of the productive labor in most workplaces.

I think something similar exists with neo-Nazis in defense of Ukraine.

They seem capable of winning in the streets and on the front lines.

It is also useful to look at where their money comes from:

Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment?

"The unit (Azov) received backing from Ukraine’s interior minister in 2014, as the government had recognised its own military was too weak to fight off the pro-Russian separatists and relied on paramilitary volunteer forces.

"These forces were privately funded by oligarchs – the most known being Igor Kolomoisky, an energy magnate billion.."

Kolomoisky also funded Zelensky's presidential campaign AND the latter's television show that launched his career in public service.

How an embattled Ukrainian oligarch has kept his grip on an economic empire

 

[georgephillip]

When the Ukraine army enters Moscow, I will agree that they could win. Until that happens its just a matter of how much damage Ukraine is willing to incur.

Would evicting the Russians from Crimea suffice?



"Russia wants to control Ukraine and have it be a non-Western-leaning state, but Horrell (former Naval intelligence officer) said the Ukrainian people have shown that the invasion alone will not eliminate their Western ideals.

"And, he said, they would not accept a president who was chosen by Russia.

"'That is almost zero chance of occurring now,' Horrell said. 'And for Ukraine ... you would define victory as the complete expulsion of the Russian invaders, not just this recent invasion, but to get the borders back to 2014, before Crimea was illegally annexed.'"

 

[HappyJoy]

None of your mouthy ahistorical cynicism changes the fact of the pathology pointed out. Truman was a psychopath that got many puppets to dance by reifying a signifier, just as does any other theologian-pimp. Ueber das Marionettentheater.

Who cares what you think Truman was. The year is 2022 and Putin is the psychopath.

 

[georgephillip]

Sources for that have already been posted by others, you seem to ignore them in favor of one guy that carries water for Russian propaganda, much like yourself. That one guy who is almost always voices opinions against the United States and it's allies. He's a convicted pedo and he's directly tied to Russian propaganda (RT

Is that because the US is the only country on the planet that has killed, maimed, mutilated, raped, and displaced millions of innocent civilians on the opposite side of the planet FOR MONEY since 1945?

Whose water are you carrying, corrupt oligarchs and their political poodles?

"Igor Kolomoisky, a Ukrainian energy baron of Jewish heritage, has been a top funder of Azov since it was formed in 2014. He has also bankrolled private militias like the Dnipro and Aidar Battalions, and has deployed them as a personal thug squad to protect his financial interests.

"In 2019, Kolomoisky emerged as the top backer of Zelensky’s presidential bid. Though Zelensky made anti-corruption the signature issue of his campaign, the Pandora Papers exposed him and members of his inner circle stashing large payments from Kolomoisky in a shadowy web of offshore accounts."

Would you be surprised to learn Kolomoisky also funded Zelensky's BS television show that put him in Ukraine's presidential palace?

How Ukraine's Jewish president Zelensky made peace with neo-Nazi paramilitaries on front lines of war with Russia - The Grayzone

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The U.S. — and Zelensky himself — may some time in the future agree to seek a ceasefire and negotiated settlement that “diplomatically” recognizes at least the reasonableness of the Russian historical claim to Crimea. That may be necessary to end this war. At that time we may see charges of “treason” hurled by Ukrainian ultra-nationalists and fascists at the Jewish Zelensky, the West, etc. But for now the key questions are still being resolved by fighting, and it is necessary that Putin’s bloody invasion be stopped and pushed back.

 

[HappyJoy]

Is that because the US is the only country on the planet that has killed, maimed, mutilated, raped, and displaced millions of innocent civilians on the opposite side of the planet FOR MONEY since 1945?

Whose water are you carrying, corrupt oligarchs and their political poodles?

"Igor Kolomoisky, a Ukrainian energy baron of Jewish heritage, has been a top funder of Azov since it was formed in 2014. He has also bankrolled private militias like the Dnipro and Aidar Battalions, and has deployed them as a personal thug squad to protect his financial interests.

"In 2019, Kolomoisky emerged as the top backer of Zelensky’s presidential bid. Though Zelensky made anti-corruption the signature issue of his campaign, the Pandora Papers exposed him and members of his inner circle stashing large payments from Kolomoisky in a shadowy web of offshore accounts."

Would you be surprised to learn Kolomoisky also funded Zelensky's BS television show that put him in Ukraine's presidential palace?

How Ukraine's Jewish president Zelensky made peace with neo-Nazi paramilitaries on front lines of war with Russia - The Grayzone

Are we really going to ignore everything that Putin is? Did Kolomoisky invade Russia or something?

Are you guys still bummed that Zelensky didn't open up a bogus investigation on the Biden's?

Anyway, to say I'm not concerned about Kolomoisky is an understatement. What I am concerned about is a fledgling democracy that has been under the corrupt thumb of it's larger neighbor for generations finally has a chance to rid itself of corruption and you guys want to push them right back in.

Anyway I seem to recall that Russia has it's own mass murder problem in it's past that more than rivals the Nazis. They've also invaded their neighbors when those neighbors don't want to join them. What about their own Afghanistan war which ended up accelerating their empire breaking up?