School Staff JAILED for Not Reporting

[Unkotare]

...No gray area about this if a teacher knows what’s good for them. I......

What really matters is what's good for the student. That's the point of the law in question.

 

[Mushroom]

Doesn’t matter. All teachers are required to report crimes against children. Any children anywhere. In California when I was teaching, we had to notify the State. Not just the administration. I’m sure it’s similar in other states as well.

I actually agree here, that was sarcasm.

I find it amazing that the OP seems to believe that teachers and other mandatory reporters should not report abuse of children.

 

[Mushroom]

Do you know how many cases of physical assault student-to-student go unreported?

And this is your excuse that no abuse should be reported?

Not every case of rape is reported. Therefore, we should not respond to any case of rape.

And the funny thing is, once again you seem to think you are being entirely reasonable in your coprolite attempts at making comparisons.

 

[Mushroom]

I know it wasn't consensual and it was sexual assault, but off school property and off school time.

What, so that means that the assaulter gets a free pass?

Once again, complete insanity on what you are saying. I guess if it was a murder, because it happened off school grounds the school should do nothing.

 

[sparky]

Tell me why the parents shouldn't be notified

I'm asking "parents rights" conservatives why a hearsay, 2nd hand report of assault off school property and off school time, not involving adults or family members, is not immediately reported TO THE PARENTS so that THEY can report to authorities.

For the millionth time, this crime could have been reported to the parents,

the law in most States have a list of mandatory reporters.

why do PARENTS RIGHTS folks want the school to make the police report--NOT child abuse as it is typically understood--and NOT the parents?

Methinks the sanctuary state laws are misunderstood here.

they specify that parental notification is not to happen

this is because the groomers influence trumps parental rights

~S~

 

[SweetSue92]

Methinks the sanctuary state laws are misunderstood here.

they specify that parental notification is not to happen

this is because the groomers influence trumps parental rights

~S~

I think that is very probably true in cases where child abuse is reported, but this is not one of those. See the federal definition I posted earlier.

But yes, either way, you point out the contradiction of conservatives howling down the moon that I'm apparently not all-in on being conscripted as a "parent" in this situation. I thought they didn't want that, after all?

What DO they want?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I keep getting downvotes because no one can make a case for this and they know it. Just lob more teacher hate at me.

No, you keep getting downvoted because literally, nearly every other participant in this thread, conservative or liberal, thinks you are very much wrong, here.

 

[SweetSue92]

More to the point, we are mandatory reporters for CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT. Here is the definition of child abuse and neglect. Note that it involves abuse by the parent or caregiver.

So again my point is, since teachers are not mandatory reporters in this situation, why--from a parents rights POV--not just pass the hearsay on to parents and let them report it? And face jail time?

Federal law definitions of child abuse and neglect​

Federal legislation provides guidance to States by identifying a minimum set of acts or behaviors that define child abuse and neglect. The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA) (42 U.S.C.A. § 5106g), as amended by the CAPTA Reauthorization Act of 2010, defines child abuse and neglect as, at minimum:

• "Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation"; or
• "An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm."

This definition of child abuse and neglect refers specifically to parents and other caregivers. A "child" under this definition generally means a person who is younger than age 18 or who is not an emancipated minor.

Definitions of Child Abuse & Neglect - Child Welfare Information Gateway

Describes how child abuse and neglect are defined in Federal law and State laws and presents resources that distinguish between discipline and abuse.

www.childwelfare.gov

Hey Bob Blaylock why all the downvotes when teachers/school staff are not even mandatory reporters in this situation? BTW, that's why it was reported to police, but not CPS.

 

[SweetSue92]

I actually agree here, that was sarcasm.

I find it amazing that the OP seems to believe that teachers and other mandatory reporters should not report abuse of children.

We are mandatory reporters in cases of child abuse. See the federal definition I posted earlier today. This doesn't fit the definition, which is why the school eventually reported to the police, not CPS.

So in this case: why not just report to parents?

When some kid pushed another kid down, that's assault. Should we also report that to police, and maybe let the parents know later?

Now you see the mess teachers are in.

 

[Mushroom]

So in this case: why not just report to parents?

Maybe because the overwhelming percentage of child abusers are the parents.

In the United States, perpetrators of child abuse are more likely to be parents of the child, rather than a non-parent. In 2021, about 210,746 children in the United States were abused by their mother. Furthermore, 132,363 children were abused by their father in that year.

Child abuse victims by perpetrator relationship U.S. 2022| Statista

In the United States, perpetrators of child abuse are more likely to be parents of the child, rather than a non-parent.

www.statista.com

So apparently you want to not report such cases to law enforcement, but instead make the report to the ones most likely to be doing the abuse in the first place.

Oh, and parents also kill more of their own children than all others combined. And most children killed by their parents were physically abused by them before they were killed.

But apparently you think abuse of children is not a crime, and should not be treated as such. Tell me, why are you so insistent that child abuse should not be reported to law enforcement?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Maybe because the overwhelming percentage of child abusers are the parents.

Child abuse victims by perpetrator relationship U.S. 2022| Statista

In the United States, perpetrators of child abuse are more likely to be parents of the child, rather than a non-parent.

www.statista.com

So apparently you want to not report such cases to law enforcement, but instead make the report to the ones most likely to be doing the abuse in the first place.

Oh, and parents also kill more of their own children than all others combined. And most children killed by their parents were physically abused by them before they were killed.

But apparently you think abuse of children is not a crime, and should not be treated as such. Tell me, why are you so insistent that child abuse should not be reported to law enforcement?

she did not say that she said the crimes committed by other children against children shouldn't be reported by teachers.

 

[Mushroom]

she did not say that she said the crimes committed by other children against children shouldn't be reported by teachers.

And this raises several issues.

First of all, anybody that thinks that children will report their abuser parents is a fool. Much like "battered wife syndrome", an abused child who is abused by their parent is more likely to not tell others it is their parent rather than admitting it is.

And trust me, I have been there myself. Back in 1997, my son was abused by his sister. My wife and I were separated, and as soon as I saw the bruises I confronted her about it. She told me it was our daughter, and I knew they had been fighting a lot for months and believed her and my son (who also told me it was his sister). However, his teacher at school the next day also saw the bruises and reported it. CPS came in and questioned him, where he once again said it was caused during a fight between him and his sister.

However, when they questioned the sister, she said it was their mother that beat both of them. End result, my wife was arrested and spent several days in jail. The next week at a hearing our daughter finally admitted in court that it was her, but the damage was done.

And the thing is, neither my wife nor I held any animosity because we understand how things like that can happen. And for all they knew, our daughter was telling the truth and their mother was abusing both of them. In fact, one of the reasons the CPS questioned the initial report and interviews was that our son admitted he and his sister were in a mutual altercation. And when questioned my wife and I gave the same statement. The only one that differed was that of our daughter, who tried to spin a story that she was not involved at all and their mom was abusing both of them. But she was also 14 at the time, and likely had no idea how the authorities would respond to such an accusation.

But even after all of that mess, I still say reporting to the parents and not law enforcement is the wrong thing to do. I have ironically experienced the wrong calls being made, but still defend the system because when it comes to the welfare of kids, chances like that should not be taken.

 

[SweetSue92]

No, you keep getting downvoted because literally, nearly every other participant in this thread, conservative or liberal, thinks you are very much wrong, here.

Okay, Bob is on record: he thinks it's fine for govt employees to report student on student crime even when it is off school property and off school times, and does not involve child abuse, rather leaving it to parents to report.

What other powers you want to give us?

 

[SweetSue92]

Maybe because the overwhelming percentage of child abusers are the parents.

Child abuse victims by perpetrator relationship U.S. 2022| Statista

In the United States, perpetrators of child abuse are more likely to be parents of the child, rather than a non-parent.

www.statista.com

So apparently you want to not report such cases to law enforcement, but instead make the report to the ones most likely to be doing the abuse in the first place.

Oh, and parents also kill more of their own children than all others combined. And most children killed by their parents were physically abused by them before they were killed.

But apparently you think abuse of children is not a crime, and should not be treated as such. Tell me, why are you so insistent that child abuse should not be reported to law enforcement?

This is breathtaking frankly.

All this vitriol you heaped on me and you didn't understand this from the beginning. Gee, thanks.

This was nothing to do with abuse BY THE PARENTS.

No really, read that again.

A teen girl passed a teacher a note and claimed ANOTHER girl was "having trouble with guys" and being sexually assaulted.

THAT IS NOT A CPS REPORT.

WE ARE NOT 'MANDATORY REPORTERS' for that.

Let me know if you understand that much and we'll continue.

 

[TNHarley]

In choir class, a student passed a note to the choir teacher along the lines of, "My friend is being sexually assaulted". The teacher passed it to the guidance office and admin, who had meetings and did...nothing.

Of course, what happened to the girl is terrible and it's a shame the admin dropped the ball. BUT

Staff are now JAILED--including the teacher, who did the correct thing.

On one hand: Just do your job and teach! On the other: but oh yeah, you're responsible to report any misconduct you hear about, even if it's OFF school time and OFF school property--at threat of losing your job AND BEING JAILED.

America cannot decide what they want. Are we just teaching? Or are we raising your kids to the point of being responsible for what teenagers do on the weekends? And if we miss--we are in jail?

Who is going to do this job now? Why would they?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/27/us/florida-school-employees-arrested-sexual-assault/index.html

Many states have mandatory reporting laws on this.
Example : https://programsforminors.utk.edu/w...1/TENNESSEE-LAW-ON-MANDATORY-REPORTING-OF.pdf

 

[SweetSue92]

And this raises several issues.

First of all, anybody that thinks that children will report their abuser parents is a fool. Much like "battered wife syndrome", an abused child who is abused by their parent is more likely to not tell others it is their parent rather than admitting it is.

And trust me, I have been there myself. Back in 1997, my son was abused by his sister. My wife and I were separated, and as soon as I saw the bruises I confronted her about it. She told me it was our daughter, and I knew they had been fighting a lot for months and believed her and my son (who also told me it was his sister). However, his teacher at school the next day also saw the bruises and reported it. CPS came in and questioned him, where he once again said it was caused during a fight between him and his sister.

However, when they questioned the sister, she said it was their mother that beat both of them. End result, my wife was arrested and spent several days in jail. The next week at a hearing our daughter finally admitted in court that it was her, but the damage was done.

And the thing is, neither my wife nor I held any animosity because we understand how things like that can happen. And for all they knew, our daughter was telling the truth and their mother was abusing both of them. In fact, one of the reasons the CPS questioned the initial report and interviews was that our son admitted he and his sister were in a mutual altercation. And when questioned my wife and I gave the same statement. The only one that differed was that of our daughter, who tried to spin a story that she was not involved at all and their mom was abusing both of them. But she was also 14 at the time, and likely had no idea how the authorities would respond to such an accusation.

But even after all of that mess, I still say reporting to the parents and not law enforcement is the wrong thing to do. I have ironically experienced the wrong calls being made, but still defend the system because when it comes to the welfare of kids, chances like that should not be taken.

And by the way, I'm not saying you're wrong. Let that sink in too. (But remember: this case is not even about child abuse from adults).

I AM saying that people who advocate for strong parent rights and that the school should stay out are being inconsistent here.

That's it. Just that.

 

[SweetSue92]

Many states have mandatory reporting laws on this.
Example : https://programsforminors.utk.edu/w...1/TENNESSEE-LAW-ON-MANDATORY-REPORTING-OF.pdf

Yeah? It's mostly federal guidelines:

The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA) requires each State to have provisions or procedures for requiring certain individuals to report known or suspected instances of child abuse and neglect.1

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/manda.pdf

 

[TNHarley]

Yeah? It's mostly federal guidelines:

The Federal Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA) requires each State to have provisions or procedures for requiring certain individuals to report known or suspected instances of child abuse and neglect.1

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/manda.pdf

So what is the issue here, then?

 

[TNHarley]

I AM saying that people who advocate for strong parent rights and that the school should stay out are being inconsistent here.

You are conflating two separate issues here.

 

[SweetSue92]

Many states have mandatory reporting laws on this.
Example : https://programsforminors.utk.edu/w...1/TENNESSEE-LAW-ON-MANDATORY-REPORTING-OF.pdf

This is the state in question, Florida. In light of this, I bet the case gets thrown out.

Any person who knows, or has reasonable cause to suspect, that a child is abused, abandoned, or neglected by a parent, legal custodian, caregiver, or other person responsible for the child's welfare is a mandatory reporter. § 39.201(1)(a).

https://www.flcourts.gov/content/download/216146/file/3-Mandatory-Reporting-of-Abuse-Checklist-2017.pdf