SB1062, Hobby Lobs...Religious Exemptions Q: Do Corporations have Religious Beliefs?

[bedowin62]

I think when I think about it corporations can have religious beliefs.
While I think the idea that the are fighting against birth control and what not is stupid. They have that right. I also disagree with the mandate of aca, but at the same time these things in healthcare need to be covered period.
I'd say everything is covered and if hobby lobby doesn't like it they can not hand out healthcare. The choice is theirs.

It's not a choice. They want to provide health coverage. But they dont want to provide the health coverage that is mandated. Their only choice is to provide coverage that offends them or not provide any and pay a penalty. That isn't freedom. That isnt a reasonable compromise.

They can get out of the business. They have that freedom.

spoken like a true fascist

moron

 

[dblack]

Not really

It highlights the sincerity of a Corporations religious convictions

So, our rights hinge on our "sincerity"?

When the courts are deciding the religious rights of an employer over the rights of an employee ....yes sincerity of those religious beliefs is a concern

Which only hints at the ridiculous nature of the argument.

 

[rightwinger]

So, our rights hinge on our "sincerity"?

When the courts are deciding the religious rights of an employer over the rights of an employee ....yes sincerity of those religious beliefs is a concern

Which only hints at the ridiculous nature of the argument.

Court majority harshly critical of Obamacare contraception mandate - CNN.com

At issue is whether certain companies can refuse to do so on the sincere claim it would violate their owners' long-established personal beliefs
Both corporations emphasize their desire to operate in harmony with biblical principles while competing in a secular marketplace. That includes their leaders' publicly stated opposition to abortion.

Their biblical principles dictate that they oppose abortion....but not when it affects their profits

 

[Sallow]

Religious beliefs and devotions are formed in the “minds and hearts of individuals,” so said a recent court ruling.

How far can a fictitious entity that is invisible, intangible, existing only in contemplation of law and formed to create profits for it's shareholders go in exercising it's Freedom of Religion?

All the way, just as if it were a flesh and blood, mind and heart individual?

Are they established on it's foundation based upon that individual's beliefs? The Salvation Army or even the Boy Scouts of America was Founded upon Christian ideals and morals they felt was important enough to benefit the needs of the nation. To say their need to hold onto their interests or chosen established values to follow in the form of business is wrong, is to suggest the NAACP is somehow racist for pursuing after "their" chosen established interest that "they" feel best serves after the needs of this country. A business established by an owner who wishes to follow after religious values, has every right to do so as everyone else who markets after a particular group or for the benefit of others.

You are mixing apples and oranges.

For profit corporations are not charities or advocates.

 

[dblack]

Religious beliefs and devotions are formed in the “minds and hearts of individuals,” so said a recent court ruling.

How far can a fictitious entity that is invisible, intangible, existing only in contemplation of law and formed to create profits for it's shareholders go in exercising it's Freedom of Religion?

All the way, just as if it were a flesh and blood, mind and heart individual?

Are they established on it's foundation based upon that individual's beliefs? The Salvation Army or even the Boy Scouts of America was Founded upon Christian ideals and morals they felt was important enough to benefit the needs of the nation. To say their need to hold onto their interests or chosen established values to follow in the form of business is wrong, is to suggest the NAACP is somehow racist for pursuing after "their" chosen established interest that "they" feel best serves after the needs of this country. A business established by an owner who wishes to follow after religious values, has every right to do so as everyone else who markets after a particular group or for the benefit of others.

You are mixing apples and oranges.

For profit corporations are not charities or advocates.

And every different type of group gets a different deal under corporatism.

 

[The Rabbi]

So, our rights hinge on our "sincerity"?

When the courts are deciding the religious rights of an employer over the rights of an employee ....yes sincerity of those religious beliefs is a concern

Which only hints at the ridiculous nature of the argument.

What right does an employee have to birth control coverage or abortion coverage? Nutsucker scrapes the bottom of the logic barrel.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I find it amazing that there are still a few people defending obamacare.

 

[dblack]

I find it amazing that there are still a few people defending obamacare.

Paid shills?

 

[NYcarbineer]

When claims of religious 'freedom' run up against laws to the contrary, where does the law start to prevail?

Human sacrifice? Forced female circumcision? Child marriage? Polygamy?

Where?

 

[dblack]

I find it amazing that there are still a few people defending obamacare.

Paid shills?

Or just idiots?

 

[The Rabbi]

When claims of religious 'freedom' run up against laws to the contrary, where does the law start to prevail?

Human sacrifice? Forced female circumcision? Child marriage? Polygamy?

Where?

Where the state can show a compelling reason to over ride the religious objection.
In this case there is none.
QED.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I find it amazing that there are still a few people defending obamacare.

Paid shills?

Or just idiots?

Yes and yes?

 

[NYcarbineer]

When the courts are deciding the religious rights of an employer over the rights of an employee ....yes sincerity of those religious beliefs is a concern

Which only hints at the ridiculous nature of the argument.

What right does an employee have to birth control coverage or abortion coverage? Nutsucker scrapes the bottom of the logic barrel.

Employees have a right to whatever the law of the land provides for, as long as the law is in effect. That's why we have courts.

 

[The Rabbi]

Which only hints at the ridiculous nature of the argument.

What right does an employee have to birth control coverage or abortion coverage? Nutsucker scrapes the bottom of the logic barrel.

Employees have a right to whatever the law of the land provides for, as long as the law is in effect. That's why we have courts.

Wrong.
They have the right to avail themselves of it. They do not have the right to have others pay for it.
liber-fail.

 

[rightwinger]

When the courts are deciding the religious rights of an employer over the rights of an employee ....yes sincerity of those religious beliefs is a concern

Which only hints at the ridiculous nature of the argument.

What right does an employee have to birth control coverage or abortion coverage? Nutsucker scrapes the bottom of the logic barrel.

Try to keep up...they have that right under Obamacare

Hobby Lobby is trying to claim their religious right trumps the existing law

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'd love to see the reactions here if this was a Muslim Corp. insisting on being able to neglect federal laws based on Islamic religious beliefs.

When conservatives talk about freedom of religion, it's code for freedom of Christianity.

 

[paperview]

I'd love to see the reactions here if this was a Muslim Corp. insisting on being able to neglect federal laws based on Islamic religious beliefs.

No one is talking about neglecting federal law.
More talking out of your ass.

What the hell? The BC mandate is federal law. HL wants to be exempt from it.

More of Rabbi showing he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

The whole crux of this issue is whether a Corp must comply with the LAW or if they can object on religious grounds.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'd love to see the reactions here if this was a Muslim Corp. insisting on being able to neglect federal laws based on Islamic religious beliefs.

No one is talking about neglecting federal law.
More talking out of your ass.

What the hell? The BC mandate is federal law. HL wants to be exempt from it.

More of Rabbi showing he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

The whole crux of this issue is whether a Corp must comply with the LAW or if they can object on religious grounds.

You arent the most ignorant poster here only because the competition is stiff.
Religious exemptions ARE the law. A religious org, like Little Sisters of Mercy, who get one ARE complying with the law because laws typically allow religious exemptions.
Until Obama anyway.

 

[bendog]

Considering that the Catholic church is widely considered to be the largest corporation on Earth, it isn't too far fetched to think that a corporation can become a religion. Corporatism is basically a religion on Wall Street now.

Maybe I'll start a new religion and call it Corporatology- the belief that corporations are successful because they are ran by supreme beings from outer space. Corporatology states that taxation and regulations of any kind are a threat to religious freedom, and the corporate gods who pay monthly tithes to my church can cite the 1st Amendment to escape the crushing taxes and EPA burdens imposed on them by an unworthy society.

Corporatology.

I like that. I really like that.

We could bow down before a fake, but symbolic, stock certificate, and receive bread and wine representing the sustenance provided by the corporate state.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What right does an employee have to birth control coverage or abortion coverage? Nutsucker scrapes the bottom of the logic barrel.

Employees have a right to whatever the law of the land provides for, as long as the law is in effect. That's why we have courts.

Wrong.
They have the right to avail themselves of it. They do not have the right to have others pay for it.
liber-fail.

You're jabbering in riddles. Try to be coherent.