Zone1 Saying "Blacks" commit 50% of murders is Racism

[IM2]

Yes you can and often for reasons outside your control. But it’s rare as least as far as true poverty is. Then we have to define poverty which is a real can of worms. I really don’t want to open that can.

Bullshit.

Now you guys have been shown what the government has done to blacks. The legacy of that attitude is carried on by people such as you who talk falsely about what every other group has done in order to dismiss the facts you get presented. Perhaps for whites poverty might be due to individual bad choices, but that's NOT the case for blacks.

 

[IM2]

Who does that?

You right wingers.

 

[Correll]

I'm on the side of learning and data with out context does not encourage that.

Sounds good. As long as you don't use it as an excuse to not look at information that makes you uncomfortable.


Or is politically problematic.

 

[Correll]

The problem may be how we divide groups. All blacks in one group, ignoring the the fact that crime rates are often related to class, not race.

Easy enough to check. Organize the data both ways and see if the difference disappears.


Blues Mans and many like him, want to call people racist for even talking about it. That has been the normal for a long time now, adn the result is

1. Little serious discussion of issues.

2. Policy being driven by bad data.

3. People keep dying.


Which side are you on?

 

[Coyote]

What do you mean you get crickets? I answered. You just ignored it.

I pointed out other reasons for failure to get out of poverty - lack of motivation, having little discipline, subpar intelligence, mental illness etc. - but a very big reason IS having babies one can’t afford when unmarried and failing to complete one’s education.

It is interesting because lot of rightists consider poverty a failure of moral character while a lot of leftists blame structural inequalities in society. I agree with you that single mothers are a big factor,along with some others. (That is one reason I support free birth control and mandatory comprehensive sexual education. The states with the highest number of OOW births oppose that.)

U.S. Poverty Statistics and Facts (Updated for 2025)

Learn about how poverty affects different demographics in the United States by looking at the most recent statistics and data.

www.debt.org

Among the most impoverished are:

• Those living in female-headed households with no husband present (24.3%).
• Young adults without a high school diploma (23.7%).
• Those living in a family whose head is unemployed (26.4%).
• Minorities (18.8% for blacks).

Poverty for Native Americans is almost 27%, by far the highest of any group.

But poverty is also caused or exacerbated by external factors that are not individual choice: lack of jobs/loss of jobs in an area; lack of affordable housing in areas where there are jobs; medical bills; lack of well paying jobs; too many part time or gig jobs; lack of affordable childcare. These represent societal deficits that contribute to poverty.

What contributes to crime rates is even more complex, because while poverty is a major factor so is population density.

So when there’s such an obvious correlation between illegitimacy and poverty, and blacks have a 72% rate! - why keep saying, “well, there could be other reasons“ and thus deflect from a primary cause?

Because it is not the only major reason and to insist that it deflecting from that.

If I kept falling down the stairs because I’m hopping down on one foot, and it was pointed out that people who use both feet fall much less often, how is it helpful to say, “well maybe I’m falling a different reason. Maybe the stairs are uneven. Maybe I have vertigo.” Why not recognize that people using both feet do so much better, and start using both feet?

Because that is simplistic. What are you going to tell the parents of a family working multiple part time jobs but still living in poverty? Or the 11.3% in poverty with high medical debt?

Your insistence on deflecting from a major cause of poverty - high OOW birthrate, which is sky high among blacks - is failing to hold blacks responsible for their own ability to significantly reduce their poverty rate via their own actions.

Your insistence on focusing on only one root cause and placing full blame on the individual, to the exclusion of others is conveniently simplistic. It doesn’t touch on lack of affordable jobs, high cost of higher education, lack of well paying jobs, shortage of full time jobs, high cost of medical care and lack of health insurance that are part of the overall pictures. If you want to reduce poverty, they need to be addressed (compare the US with other developed countries and we fall far short).

 

[Coyote]

Sounds good. As long as you don't use it as an excuse to not look at information that makes you uncomfortable.


Or is politically problematic.

Do you apply that to yourself?

 

[Correll]

Do you apply that to yourself?

Of course.

 

[Godboy]

Collectivizing all blacks together for crimes they didn't personally commit, is racism and black guilt. It's ok to be black, blacks don't have to have black guilt for crimes they've never committed. Funny enough, the same people who cite 13/50, are the same ones who called Don Lemon a racist for saying that white men are the biggest domestic terror threat. By their own logic, they are racist then. This type of racism is mainstream, people try to rationalize their racism through the guise of "facts".

The black community and its culture is what produces black crime. Sorry, but the entire community is responsible for how that community behaves. It would be one thing if it was a few bad apples, but we are talking about wide spread violence.

 

[Godboy]

Our failing culture is tied to our failing crony capitalist system. We have a culture that breeds violence, thanks in part to our economic system.

Nope. As usual you are wrong. You dont see the same level of violence in ultra poor white communities.

 

[Godboy]

What happens if you break it down by class? Do poor blacks commit more crimes than poor whites? Do middle class blacks commit more crime than middle class whites?

Do you hear about drive-by shootings in poor white neighborhoods? Appalachia is one of the poorest places in the nation. They dont have anything close to the murder rate of even average black communities, let alone the worst black communities. Poverty doesnt cause violence. Anti social sub cultures are what causes violence. Black culture is the issue and until it drastically changes, their crime rates will never diminish.

 

[gipper]

Nope. As usual you are wrong. You dont see the same level of violence in ultra poor white communities.

That’s because they’re doing fantastic in our failed culture.

 

[Orangecat]

You right wingers.

And yet here you are, collectivizing all right wingers together.
Hypocrite much? Lol.

 

[Coyote]

Easy enough to check. Organize the data both ways and see if the difference disappears.

Easy.

Blues Mans and many like him, want to call people racist for even talking about it. That has been the normal for a long time now, adn the result is

1. Little serious discussion of issues.

2. Policy being driven by bad data.

3. People keep dying.


Which side are you on?

Do you hear about drive-by shootings in poor white neighborhoods? Appalachia is one of the poorest places in the nation. They dont have anything close to the murder rate of even average black communities, let alone the worst black communities.

It's the difference between urban and rural poverty. Appalachia is largely rural. Some of the poorest regions are black and in the rural south. They don't have drive by shootings or the level of crime and gun violence.

Poverty doesnt cause violence.

It correlates with violence.

Anti social sub cultures are what causes violence. Black culture is the issue and until it drastically changes, their crime rates will never diminish.

"Black culture"...

Poor urban populations have always experienced high crime levels regardless of the majority ethnic group. At different times it was perpetrated by Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans etc ... is white culture to blame?

How about rural blacks? Middle and upper class blacks? That is all black culture but little violence.

 

[AMart]

Is this Afro comb statue racist? Can you imagine if a white mayor did this?

 

[DGS49]

Take race out of the equation. Look at people who finish HS, who DO NOT have children out of wedlock, who get jobs and stay employed. Focus on married and/or committed couples. All of these things are within our control.

See how many of such people are living in poverty. As for everyone else, they are on their own. If you drop out, have illegitimate kids, don't get a job (they are ubiquitous right now), then you only have yourself to blame if your life is wretched.

Fuck race. Even talking about it is for losers.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Take race out of the equation. Look at people who finish HS, who DO NOT have children out of wedlock, who get jobs and stay employed. Focus on married and/or committed couples. All of these things are within our control.

See how many of such people are living in poverty. As for everyone else, they are on their own. If you drop out, have illegitimate kids, don't get a job (they are ubiquitous right now), then you only have yourself to blame if your life is wretched.

Fuck race. Even talking about it is for losers.

You havent been paying attention our board black racist and white apologists all claim whites are to blame no matter what. Some how white people force black people to drop out and screw like rabbits.

 

[gipper]

And yet here you are, collectivizing all right wingers together.
Hypocrite much? Lol.

I suspect he thinks all white people are racists.

 

[Coyote]

The black community and its culture is what produces black crime. Sorry, but the entire community is responsible for how that community behaves. It would be one thing if it was a few bad apples, but we are talking about wide spread violence.

Actually it is not "wide spread violence". Violent crime in a city tends to be concentrated in just few blocks of a few neighborhoods. Among less than 1% of a cities population. Yet another indicator that the "black culture" claim doesn't hold up.

There's No Such Thing as a Dangerous Neighborhood

Most serious urban violence is concentrated among less than 1 percent of a city’s population. So why are we still criminalizing whole areas?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Orangecat]

I suspect he thinks all white people are racists.

The cognitive dissonance on display is astounding. Whining about lumping a segment of people together, and then lumping another segment together to place blame for it.

 

[AMart]

Collectivizing all blacks together for crimes they didn't personally commit, is racism and black guilt. It's ok to be black, blacks don't have to have black guilt for crimes they've never committed. Funny enough, the same people who cite 13/50, are the same ones who called Don Lemon a racist for saying that white men are the biggest domestic terror threat. By their own logic, they are racist then. This type of racism is mainstream, people try to rationalize their racism through the guise of "facts".

It's probably higher more like 75% of murders.