Againsheila
Gold Member
And yet, Sunni, an American Muslim, has no problems with this.
Saudi woman gets 150 lashes for driving
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And yet, Sunni, an American Muslim, has no problems with this.
Esmeralda
Diamond Member
He also does not represent the billions of Muslims across the world. Based on what I have read of his posts and in comparison to what I know of the Muslim world, probably having lived in it more than he has, if he ever has, I note that his posts show him to be far more conservative than most modern, educated Muslims. He has a very simplistic and old fashioned view as opposed to more forward thinking, modern, educated Muslims. Saudi does not represent modern day Islam. I just had a conversation about that with a group of educated, modern young Muslim women just the other day. Not American Muslims but women who live in the ME. And not women who were saying what they thought I wanted to hear. I have spent so much time, due to my career, spending personal, relaxed time with Muslim people, we speak openly about these subjects. The major aspect of my interaction with them is casual conversation and discussion.
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Againsheila
Gold Member
You do know that the average age girls start menstruating is 12 and a half, right?
You have an average American Muslim right here on this thread and he has no problems with this woman being whipped to death. He doesn't even think it's going to kill her.
Roudy
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Most Muslim countries have these "extremist issues" even the most moderate of them, while the govt. is moderate, the majority of the population has this backwards ass barbaric culture.
If you think the marriage is only a "contract" you are extremely wrong. Marriage and SEX with 9 year olds is completely legal. Are you another one of these people who whitewash Islamic behavior and culture?
Againsheila
Gold Member
Difference is, it's the criminals that make in dangerous, not the laws.
Againsheila
Gold Member
And you believe resisting arrest is worthy of being whipped to death?
Roudy
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And what percentage of Muslims are "forward thinking / educated", not including the ones that live in the US, Europe and the West in general? Sunni is actually pretty much typical Islamist thinking.
Againsheila
Gold Member
Well, he's posted a whole lot of quotes from the Koran, all you've posted is your opinion based on your own experiences. Which one will hold up in a court of law?
Againsheila
Gold Member
Good Lord, a 3rd person who has no problems with this woman being whipped to death. There is no hope.
HenryBHough
Diamond Member
Amazing how many think women are for whipping.
More amazing how many of them are women.
More amazing how many of them are women.
Againsheila
Gold Member
He's the only one here that I know of that's an actual Muslim. That makes his views here very important. As I tell my Japanese students, "You are ambassadors for your country. What you do here will reflect on your country, your people and your family." Same goes for the only Muslim on the thread. What he says and does reflects on his religion. If some Muslim comes on here and argues against this woman being lashed to death, I will give him all the credit he is due, and I will be relieved. Right now, I'm not too thrilled with you either. How can you defend this practice?
Roudy
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What are you talking about. I don't think you've been around Muslims the way you claim to.
If you had, you would know that Saudi Arabia is MORE than the Vatican of Islam, it is the CENTER of Islam, they face Mecca when they pray, and every true Muslim of all walks of life yearns to do pilgrimage there. It is where Mohammad came from and is buried, and setting for the Koran came from.
Without Saudi Arabia, Islam is nothing.
HenryBHough
Diamond Member
The only ADMITTED Muslim.......
Againsheila
Gold Member
Well, that is a point. I would still like to see a Muslim come on here and lambaste Sunni and Saudi Arabia and deny that this is any part of Islam.
Esmeralda
Diamond Member
What court of law? Saudi is a complete theocracy. So in Saudi, Sharia law will hold up. However, as far as I know, and I researched it, there are only one or two countries in the world that are ruled by Sharia law. Others have partial Sharia law, others none, not as part of their legal system. The things he may post about the Koran are like people posting things from the Old Testment that no longer apply in the modern West. It is the same with modern Islam. Many things in the Koran are not applical in modern Islam, no more than many things in the Bible are applical in modern Christianity. Over and over again I post that there are billions of Muslims in the world. Only a tiny proportion live in the ME, and even in the ME, most of the countries don't have full Sharia law. You are thinking like all the countries are the same, when in fact they are all different. It's like thinking all Western countries are the same because they are predominantly Christian. Are Columbia or Brazil exactly like America because it is Christian? Why don't people use common sense?
Againsheila
Gold Member
It was an expression. It means that he posted facts, you posted opinion.
Until some Muslims come out speaking against this punishment, they might as well all be in favor of it.
Esmeralda
Diamond Member
Mecca is in Saudi. Saudi Arabia is not Mecca. Mecca is Mecca. Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia. Two different entities. Just like the Vatican is inside Italy. That does not make Italy the center of Christianity. Going on a pilgramage to Mecca is not going on a pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia.
Most modern, educated Muslims do not live by Sharia law. Most Muslim countries around the world do not live by Sharia law. Saudi Arabia does not represent Islam.
You people need to educate yourselves.
Againsheila
Gold Member
I don't want to. If accepting Islam means accepting that this woman deserves to be lashed to death as you are defending, then I want no part of it. You and Sunni and the other guy can all go, well someplace I'm not.
Book of Jeremiah
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I'd be happy to. Let's start with Yemen. I will have to go back and get the other links to cover all these nations but I have facts here and these are hard to deny. To be clear I didn't say these nations were worse than Saudi Arabia but they are no better, Esmeralda. Also I believe you when you say you have visited these nations and had wonderful experiences. I do know the Muslim people can be wonderful hosts. This still does not negate the fact that they are living in denial about the madness happening within their countries.
First link - Yemen
Human rights in Yemen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The situation for Human Rights in Yemen is rather poor. The security forces have been responsible for torture, inhumane treatment and even extrajudicial executions.[1] But according to the Embassy of Yemen, in recent years there has been some improvement, with the government signing several international human rights treaties, and even appointing a woman, Dr. Wahiba Fara’a, to the role of Minister of the State of Human Rights.[2] Other sources state that many problems persist alongside allegations that these reforms have not been fully implemented and that abuses still run rampant, especially in the areas of women's rights, freedom of the press, torture and police brutality.[3] There are arbitrary arrests of citizens, especially in the south, as well as arbitrary searches of homes. Prolonged pretrial detention is a serious problem, and judicial corruption, inefficiency, and executive interference undermine due process. Freedom of speech, the press and religion are all restricted.[1]
Note* Yemen is the worst abuser - for child marriages - in the world.
Next link- Pakistan - human rights abuses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Pakistan
Religious intolerance against Pakistani Christians by Islamists[edit]Controversial blasphemy laws[edit]In Pakistan, 1.5% of the population are Christian. Pakistani law mandates that any "blasphemies" of the Quran are to be met with punishment. On July 28, 1994, Amnesty International urged Pakistan's Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto to change the law because it was being used to terrorize religious minorities. She tried, but was unsuccessful. However, she modified the laws to make them more moderate. Her changes were reversed by the Nawaz Sharif administration which was backed by Religious/Political parties.
Here is a list of some notable incidents involving blasphemy accusations:
Ayub Masih, a Christian, was convicted of blasphemy and sentenced to death in 1998. He was accused by a neighbor of stating that he supported British writer, Salman Rushdie, author of The Satanic Verses. Lower appeals courts upheld the conviction. However, before the Pakistan Supreme Court, his lawyer was able to prove that the accuser had used the conviction to force Mashi's family off their land and then acquired control of the property. Masih has been released.[5]
On October 28, 2001 in Lahore, Pakistan, Islamic militants killed 15 Christians at a church. On September 25, 2002 two terrorists entered the "Peace and Justice Institute", Karachi, where they separated Muslims from the Christians, and then executed eight Christians by shooting them in the head.[citation needed]
In 2001, Pervaiz Masih, Head Master of a Christian High School in Sialkot was arrested on false blasphemy charges by the owner of another school in the vicinity.
On September 25, 2002, unidentified gunmen shot dead seven people at a Christian charity in Karachi's central business district. They entered the third-floor offices of the Institute for Peace and Justice (IPJ) and shot their victims in the head. All of the victims were Pakistani Christians. Karachi police chief Tariq Jamil said the victims had their hands tied and their mouths had been covered with tape. Pakistani Christians have alleged that they have "become increasingly victimised since the launch of the US-led international war on terror."[6]
In November 2005, 3,000 militant Islamists attacked Christians in Sangla Hill in Pakistan and destroyed Roman Catholic, Salvation Army and United Presbyterian churches. The attack was over allegations of violation of blasphemy laws by a Pakistani Christian named Yousaf Masih. The attacks were widely condemned by some political parties in Pakistan.[7] However, Pakistani Christians have expressed disappointment that they have not received justice. Samson Dilawar, a parish priest in Sangla Hill, has said that the police have not committed to trial any of the people who were arrested for committing the assaults, and that the Pakistani government did not inform the Christian community that a judicial inquiry was underway by a local judge. He continued to say that Muslim clerics "make hateful speeches about Christians" and "continue insulting Christians and our faith".[8]
In February 2006, churches and Christian schools were targeted in protests over the publications of the Jyllands-Posten cartoons in Denmark, leaving two elderly women injured and many homes and properties destroyed. Some of the mobs were stopped by police.[9]
In August 2006, a church and Christian homes were attacked in a village outside of Lahore, Pakistan in a land dispute. Three Christians were seriously injured and one missing after some 35 Muslims burned buildings, desecrated Bibles and attacked Christians.[10]
On September 22, 2006, a Pakistani Christian named Shahid Masih was arrested and jailed for allegedly violating Islamic "blasphemy laws" in Pakistan. He is presently held in confinement and has expressed fear of reprisals by Islamic Fundamentalists.[11]
On August 1, 2009, nearly 40 houses and a church in Gojra were torched on the suspicion that Quran had been burnt there. While police watched, 8 victims were burned alive, 4 of them women, one aged 7. Eighteen more were injured.
In 2012 a young Christian woman, Rimsha Masih, was arrested on blasphemy charge, but released after a few weeks in high security lock-up as a result of international outrage.[12]
On March 9, 2013, two days after Sawan Masih, a Christian, was accused of blasphemy a mob of two thousand Muslims torched over 200 homes and two churches. Masih was sentenced to death the following year.[13]
In April 2014 a Christian couple from Gojra, Shafqat Emmanuel and Shagufta Kausar, received death sentences.[14]
Based, in part, on such incidents, Pakistan was recommended by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) in May 2006 to be designated as a "Country of Particular Concern" (CPC) by the Department of State.[10]
Link to Afghanistan - Taliban treatment of women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
Afghan women were forced to wear the burqa at all times in public, because, according to one Taliban spokesman, "the face of a woman is a source of corruption" for men not related to them.[3] In a systematic segregation sometimes referred to as gender apartheid, women were not allowed to work, they were not allowed to be educated after the age of eight, and until then were permitted only to study the Qur'an.
Women seeking an education were forced to attend underground schools, where they and their teachers risked execution if caught.[4][5] They were not allowed to be treated by male doctors unless accompanied by a male chaperone, which led to illnesses remaining untreated. They faced public flogging and execution for violations of the Taliban's laws.[6][7] The Taliban allowed and in some cases encouraged marriage for girls under the age of 16. Amnesty International reported that 80% of Afghan marriages were considered to be arranged by force.[8][when?]
NOTE* 80% of all marriages in Afghanistan are by force.
Iran link - Domestic violence against women in Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Iran
In 2004 Dr. Ghazi Tabatabaei, a renowned Iranian sociologist, led a study of domestic violence for a joint project undertaken by the Women's Center for Presidential Advisory, Ministry of Higher Education and The Interior Ministry. Other noted scholars, professionals, psychologists and socialists participated in the study of the capital cities in Iran's 28 provinces that resulted after several years in 32 volumes of results. The findings from questionnaires included the following areas of focus: violence towards women and children, marriages and remarriages, divorce, the effect of education and work on violence and family issues.[3]
The 32 volume findings are available only to scholars and researchers at the Center for Research in Tehran and have been shared with governmental lawmakers and agencies. The study of Iran, a diverse country of many ethnical and cultural communities, resulted in varied results by province, and particularly different the further that women lived from Tehran, the capital of Iran. This could be attributed to the lack of higher education, economics, and dominance of religion.[3]
From the study:
66% married women in Iran are subjected to some kind of domestic violence in the first year of their marriage, either by their husbands or by their in-laws.
All married women who were participants in this study in Iran have experienced 7.4% of the 9 categories of abuse.
The more children in a family, the more likely domestic violence will occur towards women.
9.63% of women in the study reported wishing their husbands would die, as a result of the abuse they have experienced.[3]
____________________________
These nations are not my idea of safe living conditions for women and children but I respect your right to disagree with me, Esmeralda.
- Jeremiah
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Book of Jeremiah
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I will respond to Sunni Man's points one by one and prove why he has no point.
1) The woman driving ban in Saudi Arabia has everything to do with Islam as it was ordered by the Wahabbi Clerics through a Fatwa banning women from driving. The punishment for driving is flogging as noted in Aris's newslink. Free Press. see article at bottom ...
2) The woman is receiving the lashes as a result of the issued fatwa for flogging ( if a woman drives ) and not as a result of her having had an alleged dispute with officers / resisting arrest.
3) The Saudi woman was driving by herself. The protest was about women driving by themselves. Without a male companion. There is more than one Islamic nation that forbids women traveling alone and the Taliban in Afganistan and Pakistan would not permit a woman to drive either.
4) Saudi Arabia does not set the rules for driving punishments or the rules for Islamic Law. The Wahabbi Muslim Clerics do. It is all tied into Islam.
5) Saudi Arabia is the home of Mecca which is the Vatican for Muslims as Roudy pointed out. Saudi Arabia funds the Islamic indoctrination of American students through building, financing and paying for Islamic learning centers & Professors salaries. 80% of the Mosques in the USA are Wahabbi and the Saudis are not our friends. Neither is Islam. imo.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/25/360078/driving-costs-saudi-woman-150-lashes/
Clip from article:
There is no specific law to prevent women from driving in the kingdom, however, women simply cannot apply for driving licenses and some have been arrested for driving.
Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where women are prohibited from driving. The medieval ban is a religious fatwa imposed by the country’s Wahhabi clerics. If women get behind the wheel in the kingdom, they may be arrested, sent to court and even flogged.
Supporters of the ban say allowing women to drive will threaten public morality and encourage them to mix freely in public.
_____________________________________
NOTE***** There is no specific law to prevent women from driving in the kingdom. The problem is with the Muslim Wahabbi religious clerics who imposed a religious fatwa on driving! Their punishment? 150 lashes! The problem? These Muslim Clerics following Islam. Get it? Got it? Good!
1) The woman driving ban in Saudi Arabia has everything to do with Islam as it was ordered by the Wahabbi Clerics through a Fatwa banning women from driving. The punishment for driving is flogging as noted in Aris's newslink. Free Press. see article at bottom ...
2) The woman is receiving the lashes as a result of the issued fatwa for flogging ( if a woman drives ) and not as a result of her having had an alleged dispute with officers / resisting arrest.
3) The Saudi woman was driving by herself. The protest was about women driving by themselves. Without a male companion. There is more than one Islamic nation that forbids women traveling alone and the Taliban in Afganistan and Pakistan would not permit a woman to drive either.
4) Saudi Arabia does not set the rules for driving punishments or the rules for Islamic Law. The Wahabbi Muslim Clerics do. It is all tied into Islam.
5) Saudi Arabia is the home of Mecca which is the Vatican for Muslims as Roudy pointed out. Saudi Arabia funds the Islamic indoctrination of American students through building, financing and paying for Islamic learning centers & Professors salaries. 80% of the Mosques in the USA are Wahabbi and the Saudis are not our friends. Neither is Islam. imo.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/25/360078/driving-costs-saudi-woman-150-lashes/
Clip from article:
There is no specific law to prevent women from driving in the kingdom, however, women simply cannot apply for driving licenses and some have been arrested for driving.
Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where women are prohibited from driving. The medieval ban is a religious fatwa imposed by the country’s Wahhabi clerics. If women get behind the wheel in the kingdom, they may be arrested, sent to court and even flogged.
Supporters of the ban say allowing women to drive will threaten public morality and encourage them to mix freely in public.
_____________________________________
NOTE***** There is no specific law to prevent women from driving in the kingdom. The problem is with the Muslim Wahabbi religious clerics who imposed a religious fatwa on driving! Their punishment? 150 lashes! The problem? These Muslim Clerics following Islam. Get it? Got it? Good!
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