San Jose California attemps to reform pensions

[Duped]

Maybe someone will learn the value of other people's money!

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Those jobs have occupational hazards, and police have enormous power - they arn't volunteers. If you work for 20, years as a cop, you do not deserve to be payed for life. These pensions were created by two groups who put their interest before the ones they swore to serve - who can't afford it.

It's great paying the fiddler for the jig you danced - teaches responsibility!

 

[thereisnospoon]

Anyone remember when safety personnel was all VOLUNTEER?

In the majority of communities across the nation, those positions are still volunteer.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Yessireee....all taxpayers in Cali are bigots including my great-great grandchildren.
Yessireee... my GG children are 'envious'
CalPERS and CalSTRS encompass many more jobs than safety.
Defined pensions are what make cities go bankrupt.
Cali CAN'T afford this!

Pension Reform Act of 2014, filed with California Secretary of State office 10/15/2013

aiCIO - Californian Unfunded Liabilities: Double What We Thought

(June 13, 2013) - California's unfunded pension liabilities for all state and local governments combined is roughly $329 billion, according to Moody's new actuarial method—nearly double the original estimate of $128 billion.


Remember, unfunded liabilities are NOT in the state budget.

It's true. The pension I receive is obscene when compared to the average Joe. Of course my pension and benefits are miniscule when compared to the salary and benefits of CEO's and CFO's, those who never once ran into harms way. And of course I was responding directly to the post where cops and firefighters were singled out.

Isn't it true a contract is binding? Or do you only believe it to be so when you benefit?

Does the good faith and credit of the government mean anything, or is that so only when you benefit?

The contracts were signed off by elected officials previously approved by a County Manager and his staff. Nothing illegal, no hint of fraud (ever hear of Enron?) and we actually worked (ever see how many days of 'work' the H. of Rep. is in session? When will they take a pay cut, and give up their benefits?).

The pay of CEOs, etc is immaterial.. Those people work in the PRIVATE sector. They are paid by those who invest in the company.

 

[Ernie S.]

I think I just heard a sort of squeak from the closet.......

I oiled it with a bit of 48 hour fun.

 

[Listening]

Salary, Benefits & Retirement

SALARY:

Academy pay is $29.95 an hour, until sworn in as a police officer
Police officer, starting step 1 salary $72,571
Police officer, top step salary $97,198 (one step increase annually for seven years)
Lateral police officer salary determined by experience, training and education

**********************

I don't have a problem with this for the most part.

But I don't think that the pensions they get are in line with what the private sector gets. They should get matching 401K dollars (like the private sector).

What has always bothered me is that I know a lot of police officers who retire at 50 and collect full benefits.

 

[Kosh]

Assuming I am reading between the linkless hyperbole correctly, it is instructive how in this case a local government is looking to break a long held contract with (communist!?!) fire fighters/cops and is considered by this nutball to be fully justified in doing so. But when the discussion is on foreclosures by banks issuing usurious mortgages the teabagger narrative is "sorry sucker, you signed on the dotted line now live with it, buyer beware loooser". What the hell is their ******* problem? A working person/consumer should be able to count on the agreements they make with powerful entities but this growing eagerness on their part to cheer when the little guy loses is terribly worrisome. Pensions are becoming a thing of the past, don't know what the hell these assholes think old people are going to do when personal retirement accounts and SS finally buckle to their relentless onslaught of greed enablement.

And the far left propaganda laced post is based on hyper-partisan religious beliefs.

 

[Kosh]

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Yessireee....all taxpayers in Cali are bigots including my great-great grandchildren.
Yessireee... my GG children are 'envious'
CalPERS and CalSTRS encompass many more jobs than safety.
Defined pensions are what make cities go bankrupt.
Cali CAN'T afford this!

Pension Reform Act of 2014, filed with California Secretary of State office 10/15/2013

aiCIO - Californian Unfunded Liabilities: Double What We Thought

(June 13, 2013) - California's unfunded pension liabilities for all state and local governments combined is roughly $329 billion, according to Moody's new actuarial method—nearly double the original estimate of $128 billion.


Remember, unfunded liabilities are NOT in the state budget.

It's true. The pension I receive is obscene when compared to the average Joe. Of course my pension and benefits are miniscule when compared to the salary and benefits of CEO's and CFO's, those who never once ran into harms way. And of course I was responding directly to the post where cops and firefighters were singled out.

Isn't it true a contract is binding? Or do you only believe it to be so when you benefit?

Does the good faith and credit of the government mean anything, or is that so only when you benefit?

The contracts were signed off by elected officials previously approved by a County Manager and his staff. Nothing illegal, no hint of fraud (ever hear of Enron?) and we actually worked (ever see how many days of 'work' the H. of Rep. is in session? When will they take a pay cut, and give up their benefits?).

Typical far left propaganda post.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Maybe someone will learn the value of other people's money!

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Yeah. And ?
The money to pay people not to work has run out.
Taxes on property owners have reached their level of the ability of property owners to absorb the expense.
It's OVER.....Government agencies are going to have to figure out another way to fund the retirements of former public workers.

Ever heard of prop. 13; do some homework and see how well the largest landowners have done since 1978, and how poorly homeowners who purchased after 1978 have faired.

FYI, I was paying $1,700 per month into my retirement the final year before I retired. So don't pretend all gov't workers get a free ride.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Maybe someone will learn the value of other people's money!

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Bigots? Really you stupid ****? The best reply you can come up with for not handing the entire bank over to cops and fire fighters is bigotry?

They perform a job. Police is pretty dangerous, much less so than military but dangerous. Fire fighters pretty much get to go into any situation of their own volition and on their own timeline so not really so dangerous.

Other people do dangerous jobs and don't expect tax payers to pay out the ass for that service. Why do police and fire fighters think we owe them a life of not wanting? And why in the world would you even begin to equate their benefits to bigotry?

 

[Katzndogz]

It has been 36 years since 1978. There are very VERY few people who have not had their property reassessed since 1978. Property taxes go up 1.5% a year which keeps the state from raping retirees too badly.

And yes, when someone dies, the property is reassessed when it passes to heirs.

The cities just cannot afford to pay these pensions. There is no money. Detroit has no money, Stockton has no money and now San Jose has no money. If the risk that police and fire fighters take is priceless, they should have thought of that before they took the job.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Yeah. And ?
The money to pay people not to work has run out.
Taxes on property owners have reached their level of the ability of property owners to absorb the expense.
It's OVER.....Government agencies are going to have to figure out another way to fund the retirements of former public workers.

Ever heard of prop. 13; do some homework and see how well the largest landowners have done since 1978, and how poorly homeowners who purchased after 1978 have faired.

FYI, I was paying $1,700 per month into my retirement the final year before I retired. So don't pretend all gov't workers get a free ride.

WTF does any land owners well being have to do with what you deserve? They do well so you think you deserve to do better? What for?

Good job on spiking your pension you ungrateful ****. Not like the tax payers paid you well during your employment but in the end they paid you so well you could **** them even further by inflating your retirement.

You are the reason we are having these problems. Congrats on your assholiness.

 

[Clementine]

My brother-in-law has been a fireman for 40 years. He's amazing and has served this city proudly. I think he's worth his weight in gold. Unfortunately, his retirement is in jeopardy, like many others across the country. He's earned every benefit he receives, but the money has to be there in order for him to get what he deserves.

I hate it that our town has been overrun with welfare people. The place has gone to hell. Neighborhoods that used to look good are now run down because many homes are rent controlled and no one takes care of them. Police are called to a house down the street frequently. The couple are on welfare and always sitting outside drinking and smoking. They don't work and they are lousy parents. Nice to know our tax dollars are keeping them going. I am sorry, but reading the police log every week proves that this sort of thing isn't rare. It's a damn epidemic.

I don't know how the city can afford to keep paying the police and fire depts. considering there just isn't enough money coming in.

We have many retired police and firemen drawing pensions and that number increases all the time. We pay pensions in addition to the new employees who take their place.

In a perfect world, there would be growth and more people entering the work force each year. That is the only way to ensure that city workers get paid. Without that, everyone is screwed. When able-bodied people who should be working and contributing are sitting home and collecting welfare from the tax payers, things go to shit.

As unfair as it is for any employee not to get the retirement they earned, what other choice is there when the money runs out. Other people's money ALWAYS runs out eventually. I'm surprised that more cities in California haven't gone belly up. There are so many welfare recipients, so much crime and illegal alien gangs fighting with the other minority gangs that many tax payers got the hell out of Dodge. Now cities scramble to find money to keep going and all the protestors in the world won't cause the city to magically find the money.

 

[Kosh]

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Yeah. And ?
The money to pay people not to work has run out.
Taxes on property owners have reached their level of the ability of property owners to absorb the expense.
It's OVER.....Government agencies are going to have to figure out another way to fund the retirements of former public workers.

Ever heard of prop. 13; do some homework and see how well the largest landowners have done since 1978, and how poorly homeowners who purchased after 1978 have faired.

FYI, I was paying $1,700 per month into my retirement the final year before I retired. So don't pretend all gov't workers get a free ride.

And the far left propaganda hits just keep on coming...

 

[Missouri_Mike]

My brother-in-law has been a fireman for 40 years. He's amazing and has served this city proudly. I think he's worth his weight in gold. Unfortunately, his retirement is in jeopardy, like many others across the country. He's earned every benefit he receives, but the money has to be there in order for him to get what he deserves.

I hate it that our town has been overrun with welfare people. The place has gone to hell. Neighborhoods that used to look good are now run down because many homes are rent controlled and no one takes care of them. Police are called to a house down the street frequently. The couple are on welfare and always sitting outside drinking and smoking. They don't work and they are lousy parents. Nice to know our tax dollars are keeping them going. I am sorry, but reading the police log every week proves that this sort of thing isn't rare. It's a damn epidemic.

I don't know how the city can afford to keep paying the police and fire depts. considering there just isn't enough money coming in.

We have many retired police and firemen drawing pensions and that number increases all the time. We pay pensions in addition to the new employees who take their place.

In a perfect world, there would be growth and more people entering the work force each year. That is the only way to ensure that city workers get paid. Without that, everyone is screwed. When able-bodied people who should be working and contributing are sitting home and collecting welfare from the tax payers, things go to shit.

As unfair as it is for any employee not to get the retirement they earned, what other choice is there when the money runs out. Other people's money ALWAYS runs out eventually. I'm surprised that more cities in California haven't gone belly up. There are so many welfare recipients, so much crime and illegal alien gangs fighting with the other minority gangs that many tax payers got the hell out of Dodge. Now cities scramble to find money to keep going and all the protestors in the world won't cause the city to magically find the money.

Good people are going to lose what they thought they were going to get. It was just a bad investment. They invested in the government never running out of money to pay them retirement benefits far beyond what any private sector employee could possibly hope for. Yet the money they want or think they are due has to come from those very private sector people getting nothing.

I don't feel bad for government employees. They made their investment in government. Probably not a good idea.

 

[Katzndogz]

In order to get union support, politicians voted to raise union benefits. Next election, politicians had to promise even more to get union support. It became a death spiral. Citizens could never hope to get what these publuc employees were getting. Yet they had to pay it.

It's the same thing with welfare. Politicians promise more and more to be paid by fewer and fewer people. It doesn't look good when it starts falling apart.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Maybe someone will learn the value of other people's money!

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Actually, firefighters do not have an especially dangerous job. I am more likely to die on the job than a firefighter.

 

[JakeStarkey]

In order to get union support, politicians voted to raise union benefits. Next election, politicians had to promise even more to get union support. It became a death spiral. Citizens could never hope to get what these publuc employees were getting. Yet they had to pay it.

It's the same thing with welfare. Politicians promise more and more to be paid by fewer and fewer people. It doesn't look good when it starts falling apart.

Similar to corporate contributions: putting the leges in business pocket instead of voter pocket.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think I just heard a sort of squeak from the closet.......

I oiled it with a bit of 48 hour fun.

Yup, wormyernie likes getting lubed with 48 hour oil.

 

[MeBelle]

Maybe bigots and those envious of others might consider the reality of what police and firefighters do for a living, and what is required of them. At any minute on any shift they may be called upon to risk their own life to protect the property or life of others.

Yessireee....all taxpayers in Cali are bigots including my great-great grandchildren.
Yessireee... my GG children are 'envious'
CalPERS and CalSTRS encompass many more jobs than safety.
Defined pensions are what make cities go bankrupt.
Cali CAN'T afford this!

Pension Reform Act of 2014, filed with California Secretary of State office 10/15/2013

aiCIO - Californian Unfunded Liabilities: Double What We Thought

(June 13, 2013) - California's unfunded pension liabilities for all state and local governments combined is roughly $329 billion, according to Moody's new actuarial method—nearly double the original estimate of $128 billion.


Remember, unfunded liabilities are NOT in the state budget.

It's true. The pension I receive is obscene when compared to the average Joe. Of course my pension and benefits are miniscule when compared to the salary and benefits of CEO's and CFO's, those who never once ran into harms way. And of course I was responding directly to the post where cops and firefighters were singled out.

Isn't it true a contract is binding? Or do you only believe it to be so when you benefit?

Does the good faith and credit of the government mean anything, or is that so only when you benefit?

The contracts were signed off by elected officials previously approved by a County Manager and his staff. Nothing illegal, no hint of fraud (ever hear of Enron?) and we actually worked (ever see how many days of 'work' the H. of Rep. is in session? When will they take a pay cut, and give up their benefits?).

A contract is only as good for the length of the term it was written for.
If a contract were set in stone forever why the need for bargaining?
Which is why every few years unions must renegotiate.

Does the good faith and credit of the government mean anything, or is that so only when you benefit?
Silly head. I am union. Only had one furlough day this year, last year we had four furlough days.

1) Comparing Enron to taxpaying Californians whose taxes get jacked in order to pay unfunded pension liabilities is nonsense.
2) Who signed CalPERS and CalSTRS into law and how did CalPERS, especially, get so much power?
3) Corporate CEOs/CFOs are not paid with California tax dollars, nor do they have a defined pension benefit. CEOs, etc, are paid by the stockholders. Mixing apples and oranges is deflection.
4) Why in the heck should elected councilmen be eligible for CalPERS? Do they risk their life?

Answer those questions please. I have more for you.

 

[Kosh]

In order to get union support, politicians voted to raise union benefits. Next election, politicians had to promise even more to get union support. It became a death spiral. Citizens could never hope to get what these publuc employees were getting. Yet they had to pay it.

It's the same thing with welfare. Politicians promise more and more to be paid by fewer and fewer people. It doesn't look good when it starts falling apart.

Similar to corporate contributions: putting the leges in business pocket instead of voter pocket.

Sure just ask Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc.