The whole concept of insurance means you are paying for everybody else... It's not just a government thing. Problem is that there is waaaay to much money, power and corruption in the insurance and pharmaceutical industries and medical care costs are ridiculously high as a result. For many of the same reasons that people complain about government control, they should be complaining about those two rip off agencies.
yes, I was putting money to be used by someone else that was also putting money to be used by me should the need arise.
When your mindless red state stops sabotaging it, you'll probably get them back...one more thing dumbshit.., i lost two of the best doctors i ever had due to your fucked up O'shitforbrainsbamacare !!!
Well one thing is for sure... In general the GOP did nothing to help make the bill a good one. From the start the pouted, dragged their heels, and did what they could to shut down the efforts. It's no surprise it came out full of holes. Think if all that energy was put towards doing their job and giving ideas, input, and strategy to make the bill as good as possible. It's embarrassing how things are running on the hill. I can only hope some miracle changes things for our future.Funny...a Liberal is asking Republicans / Conservatives how they are going to fix the shitty health care disaster they - liberals- rammed down the throats of the majority of Americans who opposed it.
Pelosi declared to the GOP and American citizens, 'You don't have the RIGHT to know what's in this shitty legislation until this shitty health care law is passed'... AND NOW the creators of the shitty health care system demand to know how those who have been 'victimized' by this shitty system are going to fix it.
Well one thing is for sure... In general the GOP did nothing to help make the bill a good one. From the start the pouted, dragged their heels, and did what they could to shut down the efforts. It's no surprise it came out full of holes. Think if all that energy was put towards doing their job and giving ideas, input, and strategy to make the bill as good as possible. It's embarrassing how things are running on the hill. I can only hope some miracle changes things for our future.Funny...a Liberal is asking Republicans / Conservatives how they are going to fix the shitty health care disaster they - liberals- rammed down the throats of the majority of Americans who opposed it.
Pelosi declared to the GOP and American citizens, 'You don't have the RIGHT to know what's in this shitty legislation until this shitty health care law is passed'... AND NOW the creators of the shitty health care system demand to know how those who have been 'victimized' by this shitty system are going to fix it.
My bad, the GOP were complete gentlemen about the whole deal and those blood thirsty dems should have taken the warm spirited and selfless advice/help that the right was offering. Had that happened all would have been hunky dorry... How's that??
Great stats... Where's this quote of Obama wanting to lay off half a million people? I'd love to learn more about this completely believable statement.Well one thing is for sure... In general the GOP did nothing to help make the bill a good one. From the start the pouted, dragged their heels, and did what they could to shut down the efforts. It's no surprise it came out full of holes. Think if all that energy was put towards doing their job and giving ideas, input, and strategy to make the bill as good as possible. It's embarrassing how things are running on the hill. I can only hope some miracle changes things for our future.Funny...a Liberal is asking Republicans / Conservatives how they are going to fix the shitty health care disaster they - liberals- rammed down the throats of the majority of Americans who opposed it.
Pelosi declared to the GOP and American citizens, 'You don't have the RIGHT to know what's in this shitty legislation until this shitty health care law is passed'... AND NOW the creators of the shitty health care system demand to know how those who have been 'victimized' by this shitty system are going to fix it.
There is NOTHING GOP/conservatives can offer to Obama who WANTS to put 1,400 companies out of business. He wants to put them out of business even thought they pay over $100 billion a year in federal/state/local and maybe property taxes in your home town. Obama has stated he wants 450,000 people to be laid off from these 1,400 companies.
And truly there WAS nothing to Obama's exaggerated and blown almost 100% out of proportion that there were 46 million uninsured Americans when there are truly less then 4 million that want and need health insurance. When Obama agreed AFTER ACA was signed oh... as Politifact states it was sloppy to include 10 million "illegal aliens" into the 46 million. But NO ONE seems to recognize that 14 million people didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid BEFORE ACA. ACA never needed for these 14 million just a competent Medicaid administration! So leaves 22 million.
Since when is it a requirement for the 18 million under 34 that made over $50K wanted health insurance. They don't. They don't need. They can afford.
BUT everyone seems to think that they should be included. WRONG they don't need to be to solve the "uninsured" problem!
10 million not citizens...Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
14 million didn't know qualified for Medicaid...http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
18 million under 34 don't WANT insurance...CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
Great stats... Where's this quote of Obama wanting to lay off half a million people? I'd love to learn more about this completely believable statement.Well one thing is for sure... In general the GOP did nothing to help make the bill a good one. From the start the pouted, dragged their heels, and did what they could to shut down the efforts. It's no surprise it came out full of holes. Think if all that energy was put towards doing their job and giving ideas, input, and strategy to make the bill as good as possible. It's embarrassing how things are running on the hill. I can only hope some miracle changes things for our future.Funny...a Liberal is asking Republicans / Conservatives how they are going to fix the shitty health care disaster they - liberals- rammed down the throats of the majority of Americans who opposed it.
Pelosi declared to the GOP and American citizens, 'You don't have the RIGHT to know what's in this shitty legislation until this shitty health care law is passed'... AND NOW the creators of the shitty health care system demand to know how those who have been 'victimized' by this shitty system are going to fix it.
There is NOTHING GOP/conservatives can offer to Obama who WANTS to put 1,400 companies out of business. He wants to put them out of business even thought they pay over $100 billion a year in federal/state/local and maybe property taxes in your home town. Obama has stated he wants 450,000 people to be laid off from these 1,400 companies.
And truly there WAS nothing to Obama's exaggerated and blown almost 100% out of proportion that there were 46 million uninsured Americans when there are truly less then 4 million that want and need health insurance. When Obama agreed AFTER ACA was signed oh... as Politifact states it was sloppy to include 10 million "illegal aliens" into the 46 million. But NO ONE seems to recognize that 14 million people didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid BEFORE ACA. ACA never needed for these 14 million just a competent Medicaid administration! So leaves 22 million.
Since when is it a requirement for the 18 million under 34 that made over $50K wanted health insurance. They don't. They don't need. They can afford.
BUT everyone seems to think that they should be included. WRONG they don't need to be to solve the "uninsured" problem!
10 million not citizens...Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
14 million didn't know qualified for Medicaid...http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
18 million under 34 don't WANT insurance...CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
Ok, The single payer system. To present that as wanting to lay off 450,000 people is a bit of a spin job. I see the point you are making though and I appreciate your thoughts. Your statement "Our country was built and grew around independent responsible people" is perhaps correct, however, the power that our insurance and pharmaceutical companies have acquired has been tremendous and they have taken advantage of that power. How to fix these problems is open to debate, whether it be stricter regulations, a single payer system, or reforms seen in the ACA... point is corruption, power, and abuse by these private companies is what got us into this mess.Great stats... Where's this quote of Obama wanting to lay off half a million people? I'd love to learn more about this completely believable statement.Well one thing is for sure... In general the GOP did nothing to help make the bill a good one. From the start the pouted, dragged their heels, and did what they could to shut down the efforts. It's no surprise it came out full of holes. Think if all that energy was put towards doing their job and giving ideas, input, and strategy to make the bill as good as possible. It's embarrassing how things are running on the hill. I can only hope some miracle changes things for our future.Funny...a Liberal is asking Republicans / Conservatives how they are going to fix the shitty health care disaster they - liberals- rammed down the throats of the majority of Americans who opposed it.
Pelosi declared to the GOP and American citizens, 'You don't have the RIGHT to know what's in this shitty legislation until this shitty health care law is passed'... AND NOW the creators of the shitty health care system demand to know how those who have been 'victimized' by this shitty system are going to fix it.
There is NOTHING GOP/conservatives can offer to Obama who WANTS to put 1,400 companies out of business. He wants to put them out of business even thought they pay over $100 billion a year in federal/state/local and maybe property taxes in your home town. Obama has stated he wants 450,000 people to be laid off from these 1,400 companies.
And truly there WAS nothing to Obama's exaggerated and blown almost 100% out of proportion that there were 46 million uninsured Americans when there are truly less then 4 million that want and need health insurance. When Obama agreed AFTER ACA was signed oh... as Politifact states it was sloppy to include 10 million "illegal aliens" into the 46 million. But NO ONE seems to recognize that 14 million people didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid BEFORE ACA. ACA never needed for these 14 million just a competent Medicaid administration! So leaves 22 million.
Since when is it a requirement for the 18 million under 34 that made over $50K wanted health insurance. They don't. They don't need. They can afford.
BUT everyone seems to think that they should be included. WRONG they don't need to be to solve the "uninsured" problem!
10 million not citizens...Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
14 million didn't know qualified for Medicaid...http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
18 million under 34 don't WANT insurance...CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
"It seems to me," said a questioner at one of the town halls, "that we would take that same scenario and increase it outward for the entire country, and that is why I still support single-payer. And I know that at one point you did."
For those who haven't followed the details of health care reform, a single-payer health care system would mean the government pays hospitals and doctors directly for every person's health care.
Obama statements on single-payer have changed a bit
So it would seem if Obama supports a "single-payer system" what happens to the 1,400 health insurance companies that pay over $100 billion a year in taxes while employing 450,000 people? See most people including Obama don't comprehend the implications of a "single payer". Sounds so nice and efficient.
The USA with nearly 330 million people that historically have been independent is NOT a good candidate for single payer simply because we have such a diverse
ethnic population, geographical and economic strata.
The entire health care crisis was fabricated.
Our country was built and grew around independent responsible people...not a people dependent on the government from womb to tomb...which WILL NEVER work!
The reason it will never work is simple. To take care of every one of my needs on a daily business as the "womb-to-tombers" think is most efficient may be possible
for me...i.e. if I was totally bed ridden strapped down and fed by tubes. But I'm not. For example who would be doing my feeding? Now that sounds obviously
so ludicrous right? But that's the point. Socialism, single payer, "womb-to-tomb" care still depends on people making decisions,etc. for me.
Now multiple by 330 million?
That's why socialism will never ever work as it removes individual responsibility and it is just not possible.
So extrapolate the above illustration to where one single payer i.e. the government is doing what? Paying doctors/hospitals? Wouldn't it be more efficient then
make all doctors/hospitals under the management of the government? Why then pay doctors/hospitals? State provides it all.
So if the doctors/hospitals aren't paid so they can pay SS/Medicare/Taxes how is "single payer" funded? Oh yea right 100% taxes!
I have a couple of questions. This statement 'ethnic population, geographical and economic strata.' apperently make it unsuited for a single payer system. I've seen a couple of posts similar to that. Can you please explain to me what makes the size of a country more unsuited?Especially because you already have government run programs in place (medicare,medicaid).Now as to the assertion that government programs are by definition less effiecient. I have to point to the fact that most socialised medicin systems in Europe are cheaper then those in the US. That leaves the argument as looking at the healthcare system as a massive jobs program. Having more jobs then neccesary in healthcare drives up prices,right?Kinda hard to combine with the statement that government run healthcare would be more wastefull.Ok, The single payer system. To present that as wanting to lay off 450,000 people is a bit of a spin job. I see the point you are making though and I appreciate your thoughts. Your statement "Our country was built and grew around independent responsible people" is perhaps correct, however, the power that our insurance and pharmaceutical companies have acquired has been tremendous and they have taken advantage of that power. How to fix these problems is open to debate, whether it be stricter regulations, a single payer system, or reforms seen in the ACA... point is corruption, power, and abuse by these private companies is what got us into this mess.Great stats... Where's this quote of Obama wanting to lay off half a million people? I'd love to learn more about this completely believable statement.Well one thing is for sure... In general the GOP did nothing to help make the bill a good one. From the start the pouted, dragged their heels, and did what they could to shut down the efforts. It's no surprise it came out full of holes. Think if all that energy was put towards doing their job and giving ideas, input, and strategy to make the bill as good as possible. It's embarrassing how things are running on the hill. I can only hope some miracle changes things for our future.Funny...a Liberal is asking Republicans / Conservatives how they are going to fix the shitty health care disaster they - liberals- rammed down the throats of the majority of Americans who opposed it.
Pelosi declared to the GOP and American citizens, 'You don't have the RIGHT to know what's in this shitty legislation until this shitty health care law is passed'... AND NOW the creators of the shitty health care system demand to know how those who have been 'victimized' by this shitty system are going to fix it.
There is NOTHING GOP/conservatives can offer to Obama who WANTS to put 1,400 companies out of business. He wants to put them out of business even thought they pay over $100 billion a year in federal/state/local and maybe property taxes in your home town. Obama has stated he wants 450,000 people to be laid off from these 1,400 companies.
And truly there WAS nothing to Obama's exaggerated and blown almost 100% out of proportion that there were 46 million uninsured Americans when there are truly less then 4 million that want and need health insurance. When Obama agreed AFTER ACA was signed oh... as Politifact states it was sloppy to include 10 million "illegal aliens" into the 46 million. But NO ONE seems to recognize that 14 million people didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid BEFORE ACA. ACA never needed for these 14 million just a competent Medicaid administration! So leaves 22 million.
Since when is it a requirement for the 18 million under 34 that made over $50K wanted health insurance. They don't. They don't need. They can afford.
BUT everyone seems to think that they should be included. WRONG they don't need to be to solve the "uninsured" problem!
10 million not citizens...Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
14 million didn't know qualified for Medicaid...http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
18 million under 34 don't WANT insurance...CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
"It seems to me," said a questioner at one of the town halls, "that we would take that same scenario and increase it outward for the entire country, and that is why I still support single-payer. And I know that at one point you did."
For those who haven't followed the details of health care reform, a single-payer health care system would mean the government pays hospitals and doctors directly for every person's health care.
Obama statements on single-payer have changed a bit
So it would seem if Obama supports a "single-payer system" what happens to the 1,400 health insurance companies that pay over $100 billion a year in taxes while employing 450,000 people? See most people including Obama don't comprehend the implications of a "single payer". Sounds so nice and efficient.
The USA with nearly 330 million people that historically have been independent is NOT a good candidate for single payer simply because we have such a diverse
ethnic population, geographical and economic strata.
The entire health care crisis was fabricated.
Our country was built and grew around independent responsible people...not a people dependent on the government from womb to tomb...which WILL NEVER work!
The reason it will never work is simple. To take care of every one of my needs on a daily business as the "womb-to-tombers" think is most efficient may be possible
for me...i.e. if I was totally bed ridden strapped down and fed by tubes. But I'm not. For example who would be doing my feeding? Now that sounds obviously
so ludicrous right? But that's the point. Socialism, single payer, "womb-to-tomb" care still depends on people making decisions,etc. for me.
Now multiple by 330 million?
That's why socialism will never ever work as it removes individual responsibility and it is just not possible.
So extrapolate the above illustration to where one single payer i.e. the government is doing what? Paying doctors/hospitals? Wouldn't it be more efficient then
make all doctors/hospitals under the management of the government? Why then pay doctors/hospitals? State provides it all.
So if the doctors/hospitals aren't paid so they can pay SS/Medicare/Taxes how is "single payer" funded? Oh yea right 100% taxes!
We have a few major industries in our society which hold a majority of the power... Banking, Health Care, Insurance, Oil/Coal... I am all for capitalism but all of these industries have been corrupted and have thus taken advantage of the people. Whether you like it or not, these problems reach a point where the peoples last defense is government intervention. I believe if these companies would have been "responsible" then there wouldn't be a need for intervention or reform, however, they did it to themselves, so there was little choice in the matter.
I'd prefer everything in the US to be private and have the government be as small as possible. Government run programs are full of waste and inefficiencies... We can only get back to this kind of system if our private industry can prove to be responsible, trustworthy, and effective. For now, as much as we hate it... We are in detention, so we might as well make the best of it.
Your first question I assume is for HEALTHMYTHS as it was not my statement so i'll leave that to him. I did mention the inefficiencies of government programs which I stand behind. It's a result of poor leadership, accountability, and systems in place... All can be remedied through smarter management and resources. However, in general, a free market business is poised for better efficiency and production simply do to the competitive nature of the market. Employees need to be productive or they get fired and employers need to provide good incentives to employees so they don't lose them to competition. This environment is less prevalent in government where the old cliche "Get paid enough not to quit and work hard enough not to get fired" is more a part of the culture. In the case of this discussion I think the free market had their shot and royal screwed it up so government took over. We need to focus now on making the government system as efficient as possible. Too much political posturing and wasted time on fighting a system that needs to be improved with smart ideas and solutions. "Ripping it to shreds" is idiotic.
I'll use healthcare in my country as an example. We have a single payer system wich cost depending on who you ask about 1/2 wat yours cost.List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . We achieve this because quite a few costs that you guys have aren't applicable. Advertising to name 1, the expenditure of needing Pharmacy tech's being another. Quite a few jobs that are neccessary to run a business in an competitive enveriment aren't neccesary. We also don't have the tendency to sue our doctors for multi million dollars. Higher education is more affordable driving the cost of doctors down, because they don't have to deal with towering student loan debts. And last it's not a for profit proposition so profit margins, 4 to 5 percent apperently i read, also don't happen. I will gladly and immediatly admit that government run companies are not always better. I wouldn't want the state to start producing tv's. But some area's of human endeavor work better when greed is not a factor.
I agree and think we can learn a lot from socialize medicine policies that work in other countries. We need to recognize that there are differences in the US but that doesn't mean we can't learn. The end goal of health care should be to help and heal people and not to make huge profits, this helps the case of having healthcare be a social program vs. a private one... If the free market could have used competition to drive a better product then we wouldn't be having this argument, however, their efforts seem to just drive prices to ridiculous levels and leave too many "high risk" individuals out in the cold.
I have a foot both in the US and Europe and I love the original idea of America. That's why I'm active here. The US was a beacon of freedom, of religion, of speech it was full of optimism. But the last 15 years or so I've gradually seen it become twisted,I feel it has become xenofobic,fearfull and increasingly polarised. Hence the heated discussions on this board. To few ppl are willing to actually listen and show empathy to oneanother. I hope that the time will come when I can send my daughter who has dual nationality to your country and be assured that she can build a good live there if she so chooses. But sadly I'm not optimistic
What I said was a bit of topic and meandering there, so I'll just say this.You're right both Europe and the US need to try to learn from oneaother. We Europeans for instance need to stop looking to the US for direction. We have it easy because we always had our bigger brother to take care of us when it came to national security. And in essence made youre military more expensive and powerfull then it should be. And thus degrading you guys ability to invest as heavily in social programs then was possible for us. In short we need to be better neighbours to. Lol hows that for listening?
