Russia to offer MiG-29 aircraft at Argentina’s tender for fighter jets More: http://tass.com/defens

[Daryl Hunt]

Argentina has been flirting with socialism since they offered sanctuary to Nazi criminals. The Brits kicked their asses in the Falklands war. If they want to pretend that they have a modern air force we will keep it our little secret.

You ultra RWers need to stop calling Dictators socialists. Argentina, like others, calls themselves Socialists when their governments are controlled by a dictator.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Good question if Argentina gets brand new Mig-29s they might be ready for combat in about 2 years. I don't think they can afford them though. But if they go with used Migs then it would be cheaper but take longer. Used Mig-29s have to be sent to a depot area and be refurbished. Someplace like China, Romania or Russia that has the kits.

Argentina has elected to buy the F/A-50 instead. The cost of the new trainer which is also a good fighter is less than it would cost to buy used Mig-29s.

Any source? It was initially Argentina that requested the Mig-29.

Russia to respond to Argentina request to buy 15 MiG-29

Argentina is in dire straights due to them being considered an enemy of Britain and having what is thought to be an unstable economy. Here is a good read. The Russians haven't said no to the Mig-29 but the range is not good enough even with external tanks. Argentina can't afford the SU-30s new and there aren't any on the used market. I won't reprint any of the cite I am giving but it's a good read in a chonological method.

Two to Tango? Argentina Looking Everywhere for New Warplanes

The West won't sell them anything other than training AC right now. And even if they did, financing from the west just wouldn't happen. It would be cash and carry. Russia might cut a deal with them and help them finance it though for used Mig-29s just to poke Britain in the eye over sanctions. South Korea and the US will sell them the 12 pilot trainers though and it looks like Argentina can afford to pay for those.

Argentina has pretty well painted itself into a corner. Their economy is a mess. Anything using British parts or US parts (including the J-79) they can't pay for. Even when they already own these sooner or later they will have to take the bird off the line due to not being able to purchase spare parts.

Sounds like the Mig 29 is still the best option for them.

It may be their only option. But the Mig-29 has such short range and can carry only one drop tank. The Mig-29 can only make it to the island with little loiter time when you carry weapons. Even with the one drop tank. It has only a 800 mile range without the drop tanks and no external weapons.

Argentina has about a year before Britain has their F-35B and it's new carrier in full service.

I doubt they are going to claim the islands.

Without some decent front lined fighters, they can't. Their country is so badly run that 15 used Mg-29s is about all they can afford if they tighten their belts. Now, if Russia decides to pay pity to them, they might offer them 15 SU-30s and then all bets are off. But that would be a poor investment.

 

[Bleipriester]

Any source? It was initially Argentina that requested the Mig-29.

Russia to respond to Argentina request to buy 15 MiG-29

Argentina is in dire straights due to them being considered an enemy of Britain and having what is thought to be an unstable economy. Here is a good read. The Russians haven't said no to the Mig-29 but the range is not good enough even with external tanks. Argentina can't afford the SU-30s new and there aren't any on the used market. I won't reprint any of the cite I am giving but it's a good read in a chonological method.

Two to Tango? Argentina Looking Everywhere for New Warplanes

The West won't sell them anything other than training AC right now. And even if they did, financing from the west just wouldn't happen. It would be cash and carry. Russia might cut a deal with them and help them finance it though for used Mig-29s just to poke Britain in the eye over sanctions. South Korea and the US will sell them the 12 pilot trainers though and it looks like Argentina can afford to pay for those.

Argentina has pretty well painted itself into a corner. Their economy is a mess. Anything using British parts or US parts (including the J-79) they can't pay for. Even when they already own these sooner or later they will have to take the bird off the line due to not being able to purchase spare parts.

Sounds like the Mig 29 is still the best option for them.

It may be their only option. But the Mig-29 has such short range and can carry only one drop tank. The Mig-29 can only make it to the island with little loiter time when you carry weapons. Even with the one drop tank. It has only a 800 mile range without the drop tanks and no external weapons.

Argentina has about a year before Britain has their F-35B and it's new carrier in full service.

I doubt they are going to claim the islands.

Without some decent front lined fighters, they can't. Their country is so badly run that 15 used Mg-29s is about all they can afford if they tighten their belts. Now, if Russia decides to pay pity to them, they might offer them 15 SU-30s and then all bets are off. But that would be a poor investment.

Argentina is not that poor and an industrial hot spot.

 

[onaquest]

i can understand the Argentines wanting to go for politically favourable Russian kit but the MIG-29, really! what a lemon... if they must go for non western fighters they should at least go for the SU-35. Su-35 has long legs, great radar, counter measures and able to carry the new gen air to air, anti-ship and cruise missiles.

Argentina is one of the poorest South American countries. Could be that they can't afford the SU-35.

not sure about it, but you are right not much choices they have today

They are barred from buying any decent fighter that will have any British Parts in it. This includes the US fighters as well as even the European fighters. The list of parts is pretty long. That pretty well leaves China and Russia and no one wants to buy the Chinese junk.

British soft power is savaging Argentina and not just militarily but also financially. it will continue until Argentina relinquishes its claims over the Falkland Islands. the amount of MIG-29's it wants to buy is around 15. that's an operational squadron. not a great deal of fighters to cripple the Argentine budget and Russia is generally receptive to trade barter deals so no reason why they couldn't upgrade to the SU-30/35. this contract to sell MIG's is not new and has been stalled once before.

long term, the MIG's will require more expensive updates to extend their service lives than the SU's. all things being equal even second hand F-16's (which we know will not happen) or Mirage 2000 would provide better capabilities than the MIG-29. now that the British are leaving the EU maybe Brussels won't see the need protecting British interests in the South Atlantic with military embargoes and open the way with military sales and credit facilities.

 

[onaquest]

Argentina is in dire straights due to them being considered an enemy of Britain and having what is thought to be an unstable economy. Here is a good read. The Russians haven't said no to the Mig-29 but the range is not good enough even with external tanks. Argentina can't afford the SU-30s new and there aren't any on the used market. I won't reprint any of the cite I am giving but it's a good read in a chonological method.

Two to Tango? Argentina Looking Everywhere for New Warplanes

The West won't sell them anything other than training AC right now. And even if they did, financing from the west just wouldn't happen. It would be cash and carry. Russia might cut a deal with them and help them finance it though for used Mig-29s just to poke Britain in the eye over sanctions. South Korea and the US will sell them the 12 pilot trainers though and it looks like Argentina can afford to pay for those.

Argentina has pretty well painted itself into a corner. Their economy is a mess. Anything using British parts or US parts (including the J-79) they can't pay for. Even when they already own these sooner or later they will have to take the bird off the line due to not being able to purchase spare parts.

Sounds like the Mig 29 is still the best option for them.

It may be their only option. But the Mig-29 has such short range and can carry only one drop tank. The Mig-29 can only make it to the island with little loiter time when you carry weapons. Even with the one drop tank. It has only a 800 mile range without the drop tanks and no external weapons.

Argentina has about a year before Britain has their F-35B and it's new carrier in full service.

I doubt they are going to claim the islands.

Without some decent front lined fighters, they can't. Their country is so badly run that 15 used Mg-29s is about all they can afford if they tighten their belts. Now, if Russia decides to pay pity to them, they might offer them 15 SU-30s and then all bets are off. But that would be a poor investment.

Argentina is not that poor and an industrial hot spot.

its not poor but has been hampered with financial restrictions and little access to the global banking system due to its defaulting on its debt 20 years ago.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Argentina is in dire straights due to them being considered an enemy of Britain and having what is thought to be an unstable economy. Here is a good read. The Russians haven't said no to the Mig-29 but the range is not good enough even with external tanks. Argentina can't afford the SU-30s new and there aren't any on the used market. I won't reprint any of the cite I am giving but it's a good read in a chonological method.

Two to Tango? Argentina Looking Everywhere for New Warplanes

The West won't sell them anything other than training AC right now. And even if they did, financing from the west just wouldn't happen. It would be cash and carry. Russia might cut a deal with them and help them finance it though for used Mig-29s just to poke Britain in the eye over sanctions. South Korea and the US will sell them the 12 pilot trainers though and it looks like Argentina can afford to pay for those.

Argentina has pretty well painted itself into a corner. Their economy is a mess. Anything using British parts or US parts (including the J-79) they can't pay for. Even when they already own these sooner or later they will have to take the bird off the line due to not being able to purchase spare parts.

Sounds like the Mig 29 is still the best option for them.

It may be their only option. But the Mig-29 has such short range and can carry only one drop tank. The Mig-29 can only make it to the island with little loiter time when you carry weapons. Even with the one drop tank. It has only a 800 mile range without the drop tanks and no external weapons.

Argentina has about a year before Britain has their F-35B and it's new carrier in full service.

I doubt they are going to claim the islands.

Without some decent front lined fighters, they can't. Their country is so badly run that 15 used Mg-29s is about all they can afford if they tighten their belts. Now, if Russia decides to pay pity to them, they might offer them 15 SU-30s and then all bets are off. But that would be a poor investment.

Argentina is not that poor and an industrial hot spot.

For being a country, it's an economic disaster. They are having trouble raising the 12 mill for either the F/A-50 or Super Entendres. But they are going to do it. Now, going for brand new SU-30s (what they really need and Russia would gladly sell them to Argentina as long as Argentina can pay for them) will run into billions when you start from scratch like they are. So they settle for used Mig-29s like many other countries. They are unique that they can't buy Birds and Parts that have US, British or EU parts in them except for training aircraft. It's a mess they made for themselves.

 

[Bleipriester]

Sounds like the Mig 29 is still the best option for them.

It may be their only option. But the Mig-29 has such short range and can carry only one drop tank. The Mig-29 can only make it to the island with little loiter time when you carry weapons. Even with the one drop tank. It has only a 800 mile range without the drop tanks and no external weapons.

Argentina has about a year before Britain has their F-35B and it's new carrier in full service.

I doubt they are going to claim the islands.

Without some decent front lined fighters, they can't. Their country is so badly run that 15 used Mg-29s is about all they can afford if they tighten their belts. Now, if Russia decides to pay pity to them, they might offer them 15 SU-30s and then all bets are off. But that would be a poor investment.

Argentina is not that poor and an industrial hot spot.

For being a country, it's an economic disaster. They are having trouble raising the 12 mill for either the F/A-50 or Super Entendres. But they are going to do it. Now, going for brand new SU-30s (what they really need and Russia would gladly sell them to Argentina as long as Argentina can pay for them) will run into billions when you start from scratch like they are. So they settle for used Mig-29s like many other countries. They are unique that they can't buy Birds and Parts that have US, British or EU parts in them except for training aircraft. It's a mess they made for themselves.

I don´t know for their government finances but their economy is above the South American average.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

It may be their only option. But the Mig-29 has such short range and can carry only one drop tank. The Mig-29 can only make it to the island with little loiter time when you carry weapons. Even with the one drop tank. It has only a 800 mile range without the drop tanks and no external weapons.

Argentina has about a year before Britain has their F-35B and it's new carrier in full service.

I doubt they are going to claim the islands.

Without some decent front lined fighters, they can't. Their country is so badly run that 15 used Mg-29s is about all they can afford if they tighten their belts. Now, if Russia decides to pay pity to them, they might offer them 15 SU-30s and then all bets are off. But that would be a poor investment.

Argentina is not that poor and an industrial hot spot.

For being a country, it's an economic disaster. They are having trouble raising the 12 mill for either the F/A-50 or Super Entendres. But they are going to do it. Now, going for brand new SU-30s (what they really need and Russia would gladly sell them to Argentina as long as Argentina can pay for them) will run into billions when you start from scratch like they are. So they settle for used Mig-29s like many other countries. They are unique that they can't buy Birds and Parts that have US, British or EU parts in them except for training aircraft. It's a mess they made for themselves.

I don´t know for their government finances but their economy is above the South American average.

I shall drink the battery acid because the Drano is bad for me. That's the kind of logic you are using.

 

[Bleipriester]

I doubt they are going to claim the islands.

Without some decent front lined fighters, they can't. Their country is so badly run that 15 used Mg-29s is about all they can afford if they tighten their belts. Now, if Russia decides to pay pity to them, they might offer them 15 SU-30s and then all bets are off. But that would be a poor investment.

Argentina is not that poor and an industrial hot spot.

For being a country, it's an economic disaster. They are having trouble raising the 12 mill for either the F/A-50 or Super Entendres. But they are going to do it. Now, going for brand new SU-30s (what they really need and Russia would gladly sell them to Argentina as long as Argentina can pay for them) will run into billions when you start from scratch like they are. So they settle for used Mig-29s like many other countries. They are unique that they can't buy Birds and Parts that have US, British or EU parts in them except for training aircraft. It's a mess they made for themselves.

I don´t know for their government finances but their economy is above the South American average.

I shall drink the battery acid because the Drano is bad for me. That's the kind of logic you are using.

Drano has always been my favorite.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

i can understand the Argentines wanting to go for politically favourable Russian kit but the MIG-29, really! what a lemon... if they must go for non western fighters they should at least go for the SU-35. Su-35 has long legs, great radar, counter measures and able to carry the new gen air to air, anti-ship and cruise missiles.

Argentina is one of the poorest South American countries. Could be that they can't afford the SU-35.

not sure about it, but you are right not much choices they have today

They are barred from buying any decent fighter that will have any British Parts in it. This includes the US fighters as well as even the European fighters. The list of parts is pretty long. That pretty well leaves China and Russia and no one wants to buy the Chinese junk.

British soft power is savaging Argentina and not just militarily but also financially. it will continue until Argentina relinquishes its claims over the Falkland Islands. the amount of MIG-29's it wants to buy is around 15. that's an operational squadron. not a great deal of fighters to cripple the Argentine budget and Russia is generally receptive to trade barter deals so no reason why they couldn't upgrade to the SU-30/35. this contract to sell MIG's is not new and has been stalled once before.

long term, the MIG's will require more expensive updates to extend their service lives than the SU's. all things being equal even second hand F-16's (which we know will not happen) or Mirage 2000 would provide better capabilities than the MIG-29. now that the British are leaving the EU maybe Brussels won't see the need protecting British interests in the South Atlantic with military embargoes and open the way with military sales and credit facilities.

15 New SU-30s cost about 30 mil each. By the time you get all the support parts, equipment and upgrades to make them usable then I imagine that they will end up costing as much as a F-16 or F-18. Figure the low side of 50 mil per copy. That brings the sum total to 750 mil. India can afford that as can the US, Japan, SK, Russia, China and quite a few western industrial nation but countries like Columbia, Chile, and most of SA including Argentina can't.

As for France bailing out on any deals that they currently have with Britain, don't bet on it. Those two, like Germany, are joined at the hip and use equipment from each.

The good news is, Argentina has a new leader who isn't that keen on trying to keep harrassing (that's about all they can do) and move on which is what Britain is demanding. The new Leader has also started putting Argentina on the success financially and ecomonically. Afterall, they do have a huge natural resources and manufacturing base.