Rush Limbaugh Radio Show

[Adam's Apple]

On Rush Limbaugh's radio show today (6/2), his staff had researched some New York Times articles on the American occupation of Germany after the end of the war. These articles were published in 1944 and 1945. It was just amazing how these articles were so similar in tone to what the Times is publishing today about the war on terror--all extremely negative. The articles were all about how the Germans hated us and how we were going to end up losing the war because of mismanagement. Sound familiar? We all need to go to the library and read those articles for ourselves so we can start shooting down some of this liberal propaganda. I live in a very liberal university town, and I need all the help I can get. Rush Limbaugh's program has helped me a lot in this regard.

 

[MtnBiker]

Some info:

A Familiar Place
It got ugly in postwar Germany, too.



With all the nay saying about our presence in Iraq, it's worth noting that none of these difficulties are particularly new. No postwar occupation has been without serious challenges, including the occupation of Germany after World War II. The New York Times ran a series of news stories in late 1945 reporting, in part, the following:




"Germans Reveal Hate of Americans," October 31, 1945

The German attitude toward the American occupation forces has swung from apathy and surface friendliness to active dislike. According to a military government official, this is finding expression in the organization of numerous local anti-American organizations throughout the zone and in a rapid increase in the number of attacks on American soldiers. There were more such attacks in the first week of October than in the preceding five months of the occupation, this source declared.
This official views the situation as so serious that he and others are protesting the withdrawal of 1,600 experienced military-government officers form the German governments on township, county and regional levels between Nov. 1 and Dec. 15. "We have been talking since the summer about the trouble that we expect this winter," the source said. "That trouble has now begun and we meet it with a plan to withdraw officers from communities where trouble is already being encountered.


"Loss of Victory in Germany Through U.S. Policy Feared," November 18, 1945

Grave concern was expressed today by informed officials that the United States might soon lose the fruits of victory in Germany through the failure to prepare adequately for carrying out its long-term commitments under the Potsdam Declaration. Government failures were attributed in part to public apathy. The predictions of a coming crisis are predicated upon three points:
1) The failure to start training a civilian corps of administrators to take over when the Army's Military Government pulls out of Germany by June 1.

2) The failure of the Government to set up an expert advisory group, such as that which existed in the Foreign Economic Administration's Enemy Branch to back up the American administrators of Germany with informed advice and provide a focal point in Washington for policy-making on the German question.

3) The failure of the Allies to decide together, or the United States for itself, the crucial economic question raised by the Potsdam Declaration; namely what level of German economic activity is desired over the long term?


"Germans Declare Americans Hated," December 3, 1945

An exhaustive compilation of opinions of Germans in all walks of life on their reaction to the United States occupation of their country was released this afternoon from the confidential status under which it was submitted to officials of the United States Forces in the European Theatre recently.
Bitter resentment and deep disappointment was voiced over the Americans' first six months of occupation, though there was some praise for the improvements in transportation, health conditions, book publishing and entertainment.


"German Election Set In Towns of U.S. Zone," December 19, 1945

United States Seventh Army headquarters announced today that plans had been completed for initial German elections in January at Gemuende. A statement said that a vast majority of Germans remained passive in attitude toward politics and displayed no disposition to take over civic

Link

 

[Annie]

This actually has been documented and printed widely on the web. Germany I believe was occupied for 7 years and Japan for 9. Major mistake with Japan was trying to introduce federalism, they culturally just could not get the concept.

In Germany I believe their were sniper problems for over 3 years.

 

[acludem]

I would gently remind those of you claiming a liberal bias in this case that the Presidents through the times of these articles were Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman, both Democrats, both considered very liberal in their day.

acludem

 

[acludem]

Democracy wasn't a foreign concept at all to Germans. There was, for the short period between World War I and the rise of Adolf Hitler a parliamentary democracy in Germany. This failed because Hitler exploited weaknesses in the electoral system to gain power. The same people who created that system crafted the system still in place in Germany today. They learned from the weaknesses that gave Hitler his opportunity.

In Japan, the U.S. helped create a Constitutional monarchy similar to that of Great Britain. This allowed Japan to continue it's monarchical tradition but also to have a parliamentary democracy.

Iraq's tradition is one of absolutist monarchy. The primary religion calls for strong theocracy. It'll be very hard to create a stable democracy in this region - much, much harder than it was in Japan.

acludem

 

[nbdysfu]

Originally posted by acludem
I would gently remind those of you claiming a liberal bias in this case that the Presidents through the times of these articles were Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman, both Democrats, both considered very liberal in their day.

acludem

There was also Neville Chamberlain. Neville is closer to the significant characteristic of left [anti-war] that FDR and Harry Truman Definitely lacked. And Churchill was a conservative, Ike...

Still, I think the wrong impression can be gathered from only looking at the NYT. If you go to a library and read through magazines frome wwii, you will find an overall lack of negative coverage. Maybe the newspapers were the doomsayers, and the magazines did all the pepping? Coverage in general in wwii was mostly prowar, to the point of propaganda.

My grandfather had an encyclopedic collection of wwii journalist photos. Some were doctored for actual use in magazines. Others, like one of a helmeted soldier turning a flame thrower on a half naked and surrendering japanese soldier most likely never even made it into the most viciously antiwar publication of the time.

 

[nbdysfu]

originally posted by acludem
-----------
The same people who created that system crafted the system still in place in Germany today. They learned from the weaknesses that gave Hitler his opportunity.
-----------

This was true for West Germany, although you must remember it was done under the supervision and protection of the Allied powers, including the United States. Poland and East Germany, however, were assimilated into the Soviet bloc. (I won't make a point of mentioning that Stalin spoke for the left, oops)


-----------
In Japan, the U.S. helped create a Constitutional monarchy similar to that of Great Britain. This allowed Japan to continue it's monarchical tradition but also to have a parliamentary democracy.

Iraq's tradition is one of absolutist monarchy. The primary religion calls for strong theocracy. It'll be very hard to create a stable democracy in this region - much, much harder than it was in Japan.
-----------

Japan's emporer was worshipped as a god for thousands of years, this loyalty was linked to a fanatical warrior code. In the first part of WWII The United States was pushed out of the Western Pacific, leaving thousands of Americans and supporting locals to death marches, and mass beheadings. Hundreds of thousands of americans would die taking back the tiny islands. For years after japan surrendered, fanatical soldiers were found staked out in pill boxes, who believed the war was still happening. If anything Iraq would be easier in that sense.

 

[menewa]

Actually, during the lead up to WWII, the conservative press was very against getting entangled in the war in Europe and Asia.

One principal reason for this was William R. Hearst. He was closely allied with the Nazi Party and used his media empire to call the British and the French the true aggrevators of the conflict. This highly influenced American opinion. His high readership and loyal readers probably had something to do with FDR waiting so long to get involved. In fact, without Hearst and the high level of anti-Semitism that existed in the US at the time, millions of lives might have been spared a horrible extermination.

 

[KarlMarx]

Originally posted by menewa
Actually, during the lead up to WWII, the conservative press was very against getting entangled in the war in Europe and Asia.

One principal reason for this was William R. Hearst. He was closely allied with the Nazi Party and used his media empire to call the British and the French the true aggrevators of the conflict. This highly influenced American opinion. His high readership and loyal readers probably had something to do with FDR waiting so long to get involved. In fact, without Hearst and the high level of anti-Semitism that existed in the US at the time, millions of lives might have been spared a horrible extermination.

Strange how things have changed, isn't it? Now it is the Liberals who are isolationist and anti-semitic. After all, isn't it the Left that doesn't want us in Iraq? Isn't it the Left that blames our alliance with Israel as one of the reasons that the world and the Moslems hate us so?

Comparing the liberals of our grandfathers' generation to the liberals of today is like comparing apples to oranges. Liberals in FDR's day, and even up to the early 1960s were unabashedly pro-America. JFK, who was definitely liberal, was anti-communist. I can't say the same for John F Kerry, a lapdog to communist dictators e.g. Daniel Ortega and who voted against funding the Contras, Star Wars, strengthening our military etc etc etc.

The turning point seems to be the mid to late 1960s, during that time, the American Left became radicalized and started embracing the ideas of Marx. If you listen carefully to the feminists, for instance, you hear a lot of neo-Marxist philosophy.

 

[musicman]

Karl Marx:

Here are a few excerpts from chapter one of "Slouching towards Gomorrah, by Robt. Bork:

The sixties were born at a particular time and place: June, 1962, the AFL-CIO camp at Port Huron, Michigan........ Though most Americans have never heard of the proceedings at Port Huron, they were crucial, for the authentic spirit of sixties radicalism issued there. That spirit spread and evolved afterwards, but it's later malignant stages were implicit in it's birth.

....Starting from a draft by Tom Hayden, the convention wrangled out the "Port Huron Statement", a lengthy, stupefyingly dull manifesto, setting forth the SDS agenda for changing human beings, the nation, and the world.************

The sixties couterculture now wear business suits, and occupy positions of power in acedemia, the courts, the mainstream media, and the Democrat Party. Until Bork pointed it out, I never knew that they had their own bible!

The Communist Manifesto. Mein Kampf. The Port Huron Statement.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by acludem
It'll be very hard to create a stable democracy in this region - much, much harder than it was in Japan.

acludem

And what brings you to this conclusion, the previous irrelevant facts you presented?

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
And what brings you to this conclusion, the previous irrelevant facts you presented?

I'm in a bit of a quandary. I find myself in the somewhat embarrassing position of being in agreement with acludem and I am loath to admit it.

From personal experience in dealing with muslims from the middle east as well as the tales of many friends who have spent years there, I have come to the conclusion that, sociologically speaking, these people are, beyond the shadow of any doubt, the most screwed up collection of misfits on the face of the planet.

If we had a CIA that was worth a damn and a government that dealt with the facts as they exist instead of politically correct stereotypes, we would be busily trying to get them to go back to killing each other.

It is not my nature to hate, much less to hate an entire people. But I sure as hell fail to see any redeeming qualities in this pack of camel jockeys.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
I'm in a bit of a quandary. I find myself in the somewhat embarrassing position of being in agreement with acludem and I am loath to admit it.

From personal experience in dealing with muslims from the middle east as well as the tales of many friends who have spent years there, I have come to the conclusion that, sociologically speaking, these people are, beyond the shadow of any doubt, the most screwed up collection of misfits on the face of the planet.

If we had a CIA that was worth a damn and a government that dealt with the facts as they exist instead of politically correct stereotypes, we would be busily trying to get them to go back to killing each other.

It is not my nature to hate, much less to hate an entire people. But I sure as hell fail to see any redeeming qualities in this pack of camel jockeys.

Like all political football issues such as abortion and taxes, money and power cannot be aquired if the issue goes away. They only want to control terrorism, not get rid of it. As long as anything can make money or create power, our government will be there and keep it alive.

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
I'm in a bit of a quandary. I find myself in the somewhat embarrassing position of being in agreement with acludem and I am loath to admit it.

From personal experience in dealing with muslims from the middle east as well as the tales of many friends who have spent years there, I have come to the conclusion that, sociologically speaking, these people are, beyond the shadow of any doubt, the most screwed up collection of misfits on the face of the planet.

If we had a CIA that was worth a damn and a government that dealt with the facts as they exist instead of politically correct stereotypes, we would be busily trying to get them to go back to killing each other.

It is not my nature to hate, much less to hate an entire people. But I sure as hell fail to see any redeeming qualities in this pack of camel jockeys.

I'm sure if you keep up this level of intolerance and hate, Jesus Christ will certainly hold a special spot for you in the eternal kingdom.

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by KarlMarx
Strange how things have changed, isn't it? Now it is the Liberals who are isolationist and anti-semitic. After all, isn't it the Left that doesn't want us in Iraq? Isn't it the Left that blames our alliance with Israel as one of the reasons that the world and the Moslems hate us so?

Comparing the liberals of our grandfathers' generation to the liberals of today is like comparing apples to oranges. Liberals in FDR's day, and even up to the early 1960s were unabashedly pro-America. JFK, who was definitely liberal, was anti-communist. I can't say the same for John F Kerry, a lapdog to communist dictators e.g. Daniel Ortega and who voted against funding the Contras, Star Wars, strengthening our military etc etc etc.

The turning point seems to be the mid to late 1960s, during that time, the American Left became radicalized and started embracing the ideas of Marx. If you listen carefully to the feminists, for instance, you hear a lot of neo-Marxist philosophy.

The Contras were brutal killers that routinely slayed labor leaders and clergy members attempting to protect the poor. Star Wars is unworkable and overpriced and serves nothing but enriching the military-industrial complex and making the world a more dangerous place. And the strength of our military lies in our Air Force, which is extremely wasteful in terms of fuel consumption and relies completely on mass quantities of oil to operate. The top three oil countries are Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran, respectively, all dangerous regions. The need to maintain and create our wasteful machines of war drives more war. I don't see anything positive about funding Contras, funding Star War or having an overwhelming military force. Plenty of countries have very small militaries and they are a lot safer than us.

 

[Bush_is_a_MORON]

Yes I agree, our air force uses much too much gas (they are bloated... hehe) That's why I think we republicans should advocate small battlefield nuclear weapons. they are not bloated, have no gas, and do not stink. we can take them and stick them up bush's ass (first we must remove his head or they will not go in)

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by menewa
I'm sure if you keep up this level of intolerance and hate, Jesus Christ will certainly hold a special spot for you in the eternal kingdom.

Don't mock Christ.

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Bush_is_a_MORON
Yes I agree, our air force uses much too much gas (they are bloated... hehe) That's why I think we republicans should advocate small battlefield nuclear weapons. they are not bloated, have no gas, and do not stink. we can take them and stick them up bush's ass (first we must remove his head or they will not go in)

You are welcome to engage in a constructive debate and present your preferred ideals. However to just put on a charade and be troll poster you will be shown the door.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Bush_is_a_MORON
Yes I agree, our air force uses much too much gas (they are bloated... hehe) That's why I think we republicans should advocate small battlefield nuclear weapons. they are not bloated, have no gas, and do not stink. we can take them and stick them up bush's ass (first we must remove his head or they will not go in)

Care to extrapolate on your redundant proliferation and exposition of existential bovine excrementation?

 

[Bush_is_a_MORON]

Boy! You guys are sharp! And mean too. Why dont you come back to Crawford with me and play in the dung heaps. Crawford has a lot of em ya know. Big ones. I think it will really relaxe you guys and you will get some exercise too. Did I mention Crawford has sheep?