Rumors In the Car Business

[Navy1960]

By Jui Chakravorty Das and Kevin Krolicki South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co has had talks with Chrysler LLC owner Cerberus Capital Management about a potential acquisition of the U.S. automaker's Jeep brand and possibly other assets, people with knowledge of the talks said on Friday. The emergence of Korea's largest automaker as a potential bidder for at least part of Chrysler comes on the same day General Motors Corp said it shelved its own pursuit of an acquisition of its.

Hyundai and Chrysler in talks as GM pulls out - Worldnews.com

South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co on Saturday denied its interest in Chrysler's assets, adding it had no capacity for a new acquisition as it focused on completing construction of overseas plants.

Hyundai Motor denies interest in Chrysler assets - Worldnews.com

The rumors are flying since GM has lost in it's efforts to convince the Federal Govt. to lend it the money to buy Chrysler. Nissan earlier had made an effort to purchase Chrysler but that deal fell through as well. It would appear that Chrysler's only hope now is a Federal "bailout" otherwise they are on their own. I don't see the option of a car company or any company for that matter the size of Chrysler or GM going into Bankruptcy, it may be the best thing for these companies in the end, they might emerge from it as leaner and more efficient companies and better able to compete in the Market. Yesterday, Car and Driver reported that the average GM automobile containe 1800.00 dollars of built in healthcare cost for UAW employee's while the average Toyota contains 110.00. The facts are these companies GM, Chrysler, and Ford can point to their own demise by their complete mismanagement, poor engineering, poor marketing, and the inability to respond to slow markets and having large inventories of cars and truck in place in an economic downturn that do not suit the needs of the market. Further adding to that demise, is the massive burden these companies are saddled with in Union pension and benefit funds. While I don't blame the Union's for receiving these benefits, it is ultimately the company that say's yes or no if they will pay them. While this may seem simplistic, had the American Auto companies has the ability to say NO and had more interest in competing and producing a good product then perhaps they would not find themselves in such dire straights. While I am not a fan of absolute Unionization in this case for the the companies to up and just say it's all the Unions fault is a baseless argument, when ultimately they are the ones that agree to the terms of employment.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think in the coming weeks and months, the definition of capitalism will need to be redefined. The government will not let the U.S. car industry fail.

 

[WillowTree]

I think in the coming weeks and months, the definition of capitalism will need to be redefined. The government will not let the U.S. car industry fail.

honey the US car industry failed a long time ago,, shoddy overpriced fall apart products sank them.. it's no ones fault but their own.

 

[Navy1960]

While I think the best thing in the world that could happen to Ford, GM and Chrysler would be for them to go into Bankruptcy. Yes, it would be hard for a long time for many to accept, but in the end one or two or maybe all of them will emerge much better able to compete than they are today. However , being realistic here congress will never let that happen and will most likely bail them out and lend credence to the long time crappy business practices of these companies. The real sad part of this is , that GM and Ford both have some amazing cars that they have not brought to market yet, plug-in hybrids, electric cars etc. How long did GM work on a HFCV Fuel Cell Car? and promote it? It seems it was a long time, and guess which company is introducing the first Fuel Cell Car to the Market? That would be Honda.

 

[xsited1]

honey the US car industry failed a long time ago,, shoddy overpriced fall apart products sank them.. it's no ones fault but their own.

The Democrats will save the Unions, er, auto makers. You can take that to the bank.

 

[Navy1960]

Congress and the Bush administration must take immediate action," she added. Administration officials have concluded that the bailout bill that passed earlier does not permit loans to the auto industry, but lawmakers are expected to return to the Capitol for a brief postelection session beginning next week.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., also supports help for the industry, and he issued a statement saying Democrats were "determined to pass legislation that will save the jobs of millions" as part of a postelection session.

"This will only get done if President Bush and Senate Republicans work with us in a bipartisan fashion, and I am confident they will do what is right for our economy," he said.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_10956672

I have to believe your right about the auto companies.

 

[WillowTree]

The Democrats will save the Unions, er, auto makers. You can take that to the bank.

they may try, but Americans aren't stupid. well 48% of us anyway.. I buy Toyota.. the last American car I bought was a Mercury cougar. now I loved that car, but It was always needing repairs. I have an 8 year old Toyota which has never been to the repair shop.. I'm sold. Buy Toyota, change your oil religiously. and you are good to go for at least 300,000 miles.

 

[Navy1960]

The automatic stay provides a period of time in which all judgments, collection activities, foreclosures, and repossessions of property are suspended and may not be pursued by the creditors on any debt or claim that arose before the filing of the bankruptcy petition. As with cases under other chapters of the Bankruptcy Code, a stay of creditor actions against the chapter 11 debtor automatically goes into effect when the bankruptcy petition is filed. 11 U.S.C. § 362(a). The filing of a petition, however, does not operate as a stay for certain types of actions listed under 11 U.S.C. § 362(b). The stay provides a breathing spell for the debtor, during which negotiations can take place to try to resolve the difficulties in the debtor's financial situation.

Under specific circumstances, the secured creditor can obtain an order from the court granting relief from the automatic stay. For example, when the debtor has no equity in the property and the property is not necessary for an effective reorganization, the secured creditor can seek an order of the court lifting the stay to permit the creditor to foreclose on the property, sell it, and apply the proceeds to the debt. 11 U.S.C. § 362(d).

The Bankruptcy Code permits applications for fees to be made by certain professionals during the case. Thus, a trustee, a debtor's attorney, or any professional person appointed by the court may apply to the court at intervals of 120 days for interim compensation and reimbursement payments. In very large cases with extensive legal work, the court may permit more frequent applications. Although professional fees may be paid if authorized by the court, the debtor cannot make payments to professional creditors on prepetition obligations, i.e., obligations which arose before the filing of the bankruptcy petition. The ordinary expenses of the ongoing business, however, continue to be paid.

Chapter 11 - Bankruptcy Basics

As I stated earlier under Chapter 11 these companies may suffer a lot initially, however they will emerge at least in part much better off, rather than continually giving them good money after bad.

 

[editec]

I wonder how many years Japan and Korea were allowed to DUMP cars into America before they gained enough market share to kill our auto industry.

You know, probably about the same number of years that auto workers in Japan and Korean were beaten and murdered and called commies for trying to unionize their auto plants?

You people really ought to read "The Great Betrayal" by Pat Buchanen.

It might open SOME of your eyes.

You're into signing America economic death warrants, and with that your own individual freedoms that some of you think you can going to protect by owning guns.

America is being turned back into a colony, folks.

The birth right that we all had, and that ten generations of American worked damned hard to give us, is being pissed away, and few of you seem to understand how it is happening, or why it is happening, or most importantly who is behind it.

 

[NOBama]

Congress and the Bush administration must take immediate action," she added. Administration officials have concluded that the bailout bill that passed earlier does not permit loans to the auto industry, but lawmakers are expected to return to the Capitol for a brief postelection session beginning next week.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., also supports help for the industry, and he issued a statement saying Democrats were "determined to pass legislation that will save the jobs of millions" as part of a postelection session.

"This will only get done if President Bush and Senate Republicans work with us in a bipartisan fashion, and I am confident they will do what is right for our economy," he said.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_10956672

I have to believe your right about the auto companies.

The only question that remains is: Who's going to bail US - you and me - out after we're done bailing-out all the industries that hurt us to begin with?

Another thing that concerns me is who's getting the billions, I mean Trilloins of dollars that the Fed feels they need NOT tell us about; what's up with that anyway?

 

[Navy1960]

I wonder how many years Japan and Korea were allowed to DUMP cars into America before they gained enough market share to kill our auto industry.

You know, probably about the same number of years that auto workers in Japan and Korean were beaten and murdered and called commies for trying to unionize their auto plants?

You people really ought to read "The Great Betrayal" by Pat Buchanen.

It might open SOME of your eyes.

You're into signing America economic death warrants, and with that your own individual freedoms that some of you think you can going to protect by owning guns.

America is being turned back into a colony, folks.

The birth right that we all had, and that ten generations of American worked damned hard to give us, is being pissed away, and few of you seem to understand how it is happening, or why it is happening, or most importantly who is behind it.

You will forgive me if the buy American mantra that GM,Ford, and Chrysler like to throw out on the table is somewhat stale when those very companies with one hand move operations to Mexico,Canada, and yes even Japan and with the other each time the UAW threatens them they submit willingly to each demand and are now at the point where the average wage per hour/per car with benefits and pensions at the big three is 85.00 an hour and each car that rolls off the line at those companies is already 1500.00 in the hole in healthcare benefits. Then I contrast that too Toyota that builds a billion dollar truck plant in San Antonio employing thousands with less per hour wages , Honda in Ohio, Kia in Alabama and several others here in the United States and all those are Americans building the very same car's. So the big 3's claim on buy American is weak at best. While it's true that exported auto's face bigger tariffs than imported one's who is to blame for that? You need only look to our own trade policies over the last 30 years for that. I will submit though, that an ever increasing number of the so called foreign cars are being built in the United States making the argument of a level playing field weak as well. If the big three want to compete in this environment, they can first do so by providing a product that does so, think about this a moment, if the Big three had products that competed directly with these companies on quality, mileage, price and style, then we would not be having this conversation.

 

[Navy1960]

The only question that remains is: Who's going to bail US - you and me - out after we're done bailing-out all the industries that hurt us to begin with?

Another thing that concerns me is who's getting the billions, I mean Trilloins of dollars that the Fed feels they need NOT tell us about; what's up with that anyway?

You do realize this money for the bailout is comming indirectly from loans our Govt. borrows from China? The tax payers, you and I are the one's who are obligated to pay those loans.

 

[9 Volt]

Detroit's about to become a ghost town.

 

[Navy1960]

Detroit's about to become a ghost town.

Detroit has is already well on it's way 9 Volt, it's really a sad sight though, because if you visit there and see past all the empty buildings and boarded up houses, it has so much potential that has been let go IMHO. I visit the city often to visit old friends.

 

[9 Volt]

Detroit has is already well on it's way 9 Volt, it's really a sad sight though, because if you visit there and see past all the empty buildings and boarded up houses, it has so much potential that has been let go IMHO. I visit the city often to visit old friends.

Sad. I agree.

 

[editec]

You will forgive me if the buy American mantra that GM,Ford, and Chrysler like to throw out on the table is somewhat stale when those very companies with one hand move operations to Mexico,Canada, and yes even Japan

Yes, I will forgive you. I will forgive you because you know part of the story, like most people do, but not the FULL history of how and why that happened.

and with the other each time the UAW threatens them they submit willingly to each demand and are now at the point where the average wage per hour/per car with benefits and pensions at the big three is 85.00 an hour and each car that rolls off the line at those companies is already 1500.00 in the hole in healthcare benefits.

Yes, I understand that. American Auto workers are well paid , AND unlike WalMarts, the American Auto Companies do NOT underpay their workers and force them onto a government paid program for health care.

In other words, the American taxpayer is not paying for the Auto workers health care, like we must do for WALMART's employees.

Why do you think 40,000,000 of us have no health care?

Then I contrast that too Toyota that builds a billion dollar truck plant in San Antonio employing thousands with less per hour wages , Honda in Ohio, Kia in Alabama and several others here in the United States and all those are Americans building the very same car's.

You mean all those companies which enjoyed a thirty year advantage of outlawing unions and not having to pay for their defence (because the Americans paid for us) so they could DUMP their autos into the American market at prices LESS THAN THEY COST IN their nations?

Yeah, those nations were nationalistic while our nation was internationalistic.

Who won WWWII, anyway? We won the war then lost the peace.

So the big 3's claim on buy American is weak at best.

It is if you only understand half of the story, I'll admit that.

Take into account the history of why those companies have been losing market share for the last four decades and you might find yourself wondering what on earth our government was thinking all that time.

While it's true that exported auto's face bigger tariffs than imported one's who is to blame for that?

Ah...our government?

You need only look to our own trade policies over the last 30 years for that.

Yeah...what do you think I've been complaining about in post after post on this board?

I will submit though, that an ever increasing number of the so called foreign cars are being built in the United States making the argument of a level playing field weak as well.

Yeah, they came with no history, and no pensions, and no unions and so of course they've got the advantage that the American Auto workers (who took care of Americans for the last 100 years) do.

If the big three want to compete in this environment, they can first do so by providing a product that does so, think about this a moment, if the Big three had products that competed directly with these companies on quality, mileage, price and style, then we would not be having this conversation.

I'm driving a ford. Great truck. Built by Mazda, of course, here in America. Most of the parts? Made in Japan. Now that's 18th century colonialism updated under the smoke screen of Free market capitalism, when it has NOTHING WHATEVER do do with laissez fare economics....which is the BS that the internationalists who are seeking to destroy our countrs' goverment have been tell us.

NAV, I don't disagree with any of your points, because they have merit.

but like I say, your points are only part (and the least important part) of the story.

And if it was only the American Auto industry that was being put oour of business by FREE TRADE, I'd be far less emphatic about my complaint that the USA leadership has been systematically betraying this nation's government and working classes, too.

But now more than 30% of every thing we buy in this nation is made offshore. Now our imbalance of trade is completely unsustainable.

Every real social problem we have, health care, declining wages, infrstructure falling apart, you name it, cam be directly linked to the fact that we have been forcing companies in this country to offshore their industry.

And when say force, I mean they had NO CHOICE!

The USA doesn't make a single phone.

We invented that business.

What you are advocating, whether you realize it or not, isn't going to lead to a wonderful world for working people worlwide.

What you are supporting, unknowingly, leads to a two tier fuedal world where capital can take every advantage, and laborering people are tied to the land no less obviously than the serfs of Impreaial russia were.

What you are supporting now, out of your half understanding of what's going on, is going to lead to a United States which is weak and defenseless and when that happens, amigo, the rights you have as a citizen will meaningless.

It didn't have to go down the way it did for this nation or its middle class, and it doesn't have to continue going down either.

Free trade is anything but free, dude.

It is has taken our nation from a the world's net creditor, the industrial powerhouse of the world, the land with the wealthiest middle class on earth to a giant which is about to fall over from the debts it now owes to nations which we gave license to screw US in trade policies.

I do not blame other nations, I blame this nations FREE TRADERS.

Actually the correct spelling should be FREE TRAITORS, to be honest.

FREE TRADE is, FYI, a liberal policy, not a conservative one.

The USA did NOT become the nation it was practicing free trade.

Had we been a free trade nation we would still be a colony of Europe.

 

[Andrew2382]

The only car company that has raised their prices this year has been BMW.

GM cars are not that bad. I had an envoy and I loved it an dnever had problems with it. My girl used to have a Gand Prix, another nice car.

We both have moved to beamers but GM makes pretty good products.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

I wonder how many years Japan and Korea were allowed to DUMP cars into America before they gained enough market share to kill our auto industry.

You know, probably about the same number of years that auto workers in Japan and Korean were beaten and murdered and called commies for trying to unionize their auto plants?

You people really ought to read "The Great Betrayal" by Pat Buchanen.

It might open SOME of your eyes.

You're into signing America economic death warrants, and with that your own individual freedoms that some of you think you can going to protect by owning guns.

America is being turned back into a colony, folks.

The birth right that we all had, and that ten generations of American worked damned hard to give us, is being pissed away, and few of you seem to understand how it is happening, or why it is happening, or most importantly who is behind it.

Most excellent post brother .. but you might as well be talking to your socks.

Far too many are never going to figure it out.

 

[glockmail]

Does anyone remember what the government did to help out Harley-Davidson back in the mid 80's? They put a tariff on imported motorcycles over 700ccs. That, plus the fact that the company is employee owned and not unionized, gave the company a little breathing room to get its ass back into shape. Now Harleys are coveted throughout the world.

I'm not sure what the government can do for GM, but it sure as heck must involve getting rid of the current union system, and it doesn't have to involve "bail out" with huge amounts of cash. That will only postpone the otherwise inevitable.

 

[editec]

cross posted SNAFU