Rules of Engagement (ROE) CHANGED...Hurray!!!

[JoeB131]

"Trust me"??? You have to be kidding!
You still ignorantly say the US military was at fault for killing 600,000 Iraqis!
A total lie which the FACTS have shown you are therefore a LIAR!
There NEVER were 600,000!
Again the FACTS... but you are so ignorant you can't understand them!
Where are the below does the number "600,000" appear?

The group that did the Iraq count used the same methodology to calculate fatalities in the Congo conflict, but no one considered those numbers controversial.

We invaded the country. We cause the chaos that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths. Yes, we are morally responsible. Not the "military", they were just following orders.

This is entirely on Bush.

NOW I understand what you are ! Anti-Semitic! "and the Jews were never going to tolerate a Saddam-led Iraq." Unbelievable! Ignorant racist pig!
I suppose you also sit in the basement of your parents house with tin foil hat and are asking "what's the frequency Kenneth"!
What a true dummy!

Hey, guy, the Jews were pushing to get Saddam out for decades. All the way back when Ronnie Reagan thought he was a guy we could work with.

LRB · John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby

What role did Israel play in the run-up to the Iraq war?

While the rest of us wept at 9/11, AIPAC, PNAC and the Carlyse group all rubbed their hands together and said, "This is where we get Saddam!!!"

 

[JoeB131]

Well at least at the minimum the we of the "RIGHT" KNOW when NOT to help the bad guys kill our guys!
Can't say the same for these idiot /traitors who actually according to a Harvard study HELPED the terrorists kill people!
You asked "What else was Obama suppose to do?"
JUST SHUT THE F....K UP!
Remember Obama was the traitor who told the world "our troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians," Only an idiot tells the bad guys our guys are BAD!

Okay, guy,n ow you are just repeating yourself and not adding anything to the conversation.

We were air-raiding villages and killing civilians. Why do you try to pretend we weren't.

The problem with clusterfucks like Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan, is that no one does exactly what Obama and Reid did- point out it was stupid - until we are so far enmeshed into it that we can't get ourselves out easily.

So we are going to commit more troops to Afghanistan, and no one here can say, "What are those 3900 more troops going to do that is going to change the trajectory of the war."

 

[JoeB131]

With this mentality was it NO wonder ISIS regained Mosul,etc. and 11% of Afghanistan is still in barbarians' hands.
So is it NO surprise that the Harvard study found words like the above "emboldened" the terrorist to increase killings and violence after these statements were made to

Yes, yes, people are totally going to stop fighting foreign invaders if they hear us use harsh words.

Here's why ISIS took Mosul. because the people that your boy Bush propped up, Maliki and his bunch of idiots, were totally ******* incompetent and the soldiers we trained tore off their uniforms and ran away naked!

They didn't do it because Harry Reid told them to.

 

[Dschrute3]

Let's just leave those countries instead. We don't belong in em. We never did. Time to stop being an Imperialist Empire.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Pretty much. Walk away and let them kill each other.

 

[healthmyths]

Well at least at the minimum the we of the "RIGHT" KNOW when NOT to help the bad guys kill our guys!
Can't say the same for these idiot /traitors who actually according to a Harvard study HELPED the terrorists kill people!
You asked "What else was Obama suppose to do?"
JUST SHUT THE F....K UP!
Remember Obama was the traitor who told the world "our troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians," Only an idiot tells the bad guys our guys are BAD!

Okay, guy,n ow you are just repeating yourself and not adding anything to the conversation.

We were air-raiding villages and killing civilians. Why do you try to pretend we weren't.

The problem with clusterfucks like Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan, is that no one does exactly what Obama and Reid did- point out it was stupid - until we are so far enmeshed into it that we can't get ourselves out easily.

So we are going to commit more troops to Afghanistan, and no one here can say, "What are those 3900 more troops going to do that is going to change the trajectory of the war."

Of course we were air-raiding villages killing civilians! THAT'S WAR! Dummy... for someone who spent 11 years in the military you are a really dumb f...K!
War is not a political football. During WWII NOT very many people knew what was truly going on or tactics, or timetables.
YET idiots like YOU which again is against your "military" training wanting this kind of ROE which is what this thread is all about!
You don't tell soldiers not to go somewhere where they won't be killing people! How f...king dumb are you and your Obamatrons?

This is what the thread is congratulating Trump on doing...i.e. listening militarily NOT to political hacks like you but the military
as to how to win in Afghanistan!
The report says the area under Afghan government "control or influence" decreased to 65.6 percent by the end of May from 70.5 percent last year, based on data provided by US forces in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan: Who controls what
So idiots like you want to let racists, islamic radicals take over the rest of the country?

How dumb are people like you and thank goodness YOU are out of the military because YOU were a traitor. A person who
obviously DID MORE harm then good.
You really stink as an American you know. I truly am ashamed you were in the military because YOU can't seem to comprehend
team work. Positive values. All you can think of is YOURSELF!
Too bad you are truly ignorant of how the real world works! You have been so self deluded and introverted that you think everything
revolves around your idiot concepts!
A) There never were 600,000 Iraqis KILLED by your fellow military! GEEZ you keep that lie up!
B) 90% of Americans were proud after 9/11 that we were going after the bad guys that did the worst damage in history to the USA.
C) You were happy to see 3.6 million kids starve I guess because the sanctions were put in place TO get Saddam to be a normal
person... not someone I guess you never heard about what he and his sons DID!

"'I would read them out the verdict and cut off their tongue without any form of anaesthetic. There was always a lot of blood. Some offenders passed out. Others screamed in pain. They would then be given basic medical assistance in an ambulance which would always come with us on such punishment runs. Then they would be thrown in jail.'"
-- Fedayeen Saddam member interviewed in The Sunday Times (London), April 20, 2003
Saddam has reduced his people to abject poverty. He wiped out families, villages, cities and cultures, and drove four million people into exile. He killed between 100,000 and 200,000 Kurds. He killed as many as 300,000 Shiites in the uprising after the Persian Gulf war. He killed or displaced 200,000 of the 250,000 marsh Arabs who had created a unique, centuries-old culture in the south. He drained the marshes, an environmental treasure, and turned them into a desert.

And you were happy to see that happen I bet! Disgusting human being!

 

[JoeB131]

Of course we were air-raiding villages killing civilians! THAT'S WAR! Dummy... for someone who spent 11 years in the military you are a really dumb f...K!

Except there was no tactical advantage to bombing villages and in many ways, we probably made things worse for ourselves.

here's the thing concerning Iraq. THERE WAS NO GOOD REASON TO INVADE IT! Nothing made bin Laden's case that America wanted to take over better than America actually trying to take something over.

War is not a political football. During WWII NOT very many people knew what was truly going on or tactics, or timetables.
YET idiots like YOU which again is against your "military" training wanting this kind of ROE which is what this thread is all about!
You don't tell soldiers not to go somewhere where they won't be killing people! How f...king dumb are you and your Obamatrons?

Except when I was in, we had a lot of training about NOT killing civilians, not torturing prisoners, not generally making ourselves unwelcome. And that seemed to have gone right out the window when Bush invaded Iraq.

This is what the thread is congratulating Trump on doing...i.e. listening militarily NOT to political hacks like you but the military
as to how to win in Afghanistan!

Except nothing you guys have proposed is goig to help us "win". And I've been asking you, most of the thread now, what does "winning" look like, exactly?

How dumb are people like you and thank goodness YOU are out of the military because YOU were a traitor. A person who
obviously DID MORE harm then good.
You really stink as an American you know. I truly am ashamed you were in the military because YOU can't seem to comprehend
team work. Positive values. All you can think of is YOURSELF!

no, guy, I'm thinking about the young men and women who come back from these awful places with PTSD and missing limbs and traumatic injuries with so very little to show for it after 16 years. If we haven't "won" the war in 16 years, it's kind of obvious that we aren't going to. The Afghans have been fighting since the 1970's, for Christ's sake. At some point, we have to wash our hands of this mess. and if that makes Trump look bad, too bad.

Too bad you are truly ignorant of how the real world works! You have been so self deluded and introverted that you think everything
revolves around your idiot concepts!
A) There never were 600,000 Iraqis KILLED by your fellow military! GEEZ you keep that lie up!

I said that 600,000 died in the war FROM ALL CAUSES. That makes the United States responsible. And it's not the military's fault. General Shinkesi told Bush that we needed 500,000 troops to secure the country,and Bush went in with less than 160,000. Bush didn't listen to the military, which is why it turned into the mess it did.

B) 90% of Americans were proud after 9/11 that we were going after the bad guys that did the worst damage in history to the USA.

Yes, and then Bush abused that support by going on a personal vendetta against Saddam for humiliating his Dad. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. He wasn't even a particularly devout Muslim.

C) You were happy to see 3.6 million kids starve I guess because the sanctions were put in place TO get Saddam to be a normal
person... not someone I guess you never heard about what he and his sons DID!

First, saying that one inhumane thing we were doing to Iraq made another inhumane thing we did to Iraq is up there with the kid who killed his parents begging for mercy because he was an orphan.

Second, by 2000, the Oil for Food program was working just fine as far as meeting Iraq's nutritional needs while denying Saddam the resources to rebuild his military.

Third. Saddam was a bastard. He was a bastard when he was invading Iran and your hero, Ronnie Reagan, sold him the chemicals he used to gas the Kurds. We've supported a LOT of bastards around the world- Somoza, Pinochet, Marcos, Botha, etc.

And you were happy to see that happen I bet! Disgusting human being!

NO, I just don't wee why any of that is worth ONE AMERICAN LIFE. We didn't go to war with Iraq because he drained a swamp or gassed some Kurds 20 years earlier.

We went to war with him because he had WMD's and he was going to give them to Al Qaeda.

Which was a complete and total lie.



.

 

[healthmyths]

Of course we were air-raiding villages killing civilians! THAT'S WAR! Dummy... for someone who spent 11 years in the military you are a really dumb f...K!

Except there was no tactical advantage to bombing villages and in many ways, we probably made things worse for ourselves.

here's the thing concerning Iraq. THERE WAS NO GOOD REASON TO INVADE IT! Nothing made bin Laden's case that America wanted to take over better than America actually trying to take something over.

War is not a political football. During WWII NOT very many people knew what was truly going on or tactics, or timetables.
YET idiots like YOU which again is against your "military" training wanting this kind of ROE which is what this thread is all about!
You don't tell soldiers not to go somewhere where they won't be killing people! How f...king dumb are you and your Obamatrons?

Except when I was in, we had a lot of training about NOT killing civilians, not torturing prisoners, not generally making ourselves unwelcome. And that seemed to have gone right out the window when Bush invaded Iraq.

This is what the thread is congratulating Trump on doing...i.e. listening militarily NOT to political hacks like you but the military
as to how to win in Afghanistan!

Except nothing you guys have proposed is goig to help us "win". And I've been asking you, most of the thread now, what does "winning" look like, exactly?

How dumb are people like you and thank goodness YOU are out of the military because YOU were a traitor. A person who
obviously DID MORE harm then good.
You really stink as an American you know. I truly am ashamed you were in the military because YOU can't seem to comprehend
team work. Positive values. All you can think of is YOURSELF!

no, guy, I'm thinking about the young men and women who come back from these awful places with PTSD and missing limbs and traumatic injuries with so very little to show for it after 16 years. If we haven't "won" the war in 16 years, it's kind of obvious that we aren't going to. The Afghans have been fighting since the 1970's, for Christ's sake. At some point, we have to wash our hands of this mess. and if that makes Trump look bad, too bad.

Too bad you are truly ignorant of how the real world works! You have been so self deluded and introverted that you think everything
revolves around your idiot concepts!
A) There never were 600,000 Iraqis KILLED by your fellow military! GEEZ you keep that lie up!

I said that 600,000 died in the war FROM ALL CAUSES. That makes the United States responsible. And it's not the military's fault. General Shinkesi told Bush that we needed 500,000 troops to secure the country,and Bush went in with less than 160,000. Bush didn't listen to the military, which is why it turned into the mess it did.

B) 90% of Americans were proud after 9/11 that we were going after the bad guys that did the worst damage in history to the USA.

Yes, and then Bush abused that support by going on a personal vendetta against Saddam for humiliating his Dad. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. He wasn't even a particularly devout Muslim.

C) You were happy to see 3.6 million kids starve I guess because the sanctions were put in place TO get Saddam to be a normal
person... not someone I guess you never heard about what he and his sons DID!

First, saying that one inhumane thing we were doing to Iraq made another inhumane thing we did to Iraq is up there with the kid who killed his parents begging for mercy because he was an orphan.

Second, by 2000, the Oil for Food program was working just fine as far as meeting Iraq's nutritional needs while denying Saddam the resources to rebuild his military.

Third. Saddam was a bastard. He was a bastard when he was invading Iran and your hero, Ronnie Reagan, sold him the chemicals he used to gas the Kurds. We've supported a LOT of bastards around the world- Somoza, Pinochet, Marcos, Botha, etc.

And you were happy to see that happen I bet! Disgusting human being!

NO, I just don't wee why any of that is worth ONE AMERICAN LIFE. We didn't go to war with Iraq because he drained a swamp or gassed some Kurds 20 years earlier.

We went to war with him because he had WMD's and he was going to give them to Al Qaeda.

Which was a complete and total lie.



.

YOU ARE A f...king LIAR! LIE: "I said that 600,000 died in the war FROM ALL CAUSES."
You wrote and I quote: "And , no most of the people we killed in Iraq - about 600,000 of them - were not "fighters" or anyone we had an argument with."

So now I've proven you are not only a LIAR but you even forget what you wrote!

And you keep repeating that dumb ass.."Yes, and then Bush abused that support by going on a personal vendetta against Saddam for humiliating his Dad. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. He wasn't even a particularly devout Muslim." Where is your PROOF for that totally ignorant and unsubstantiated statement that idiots like you have repeated that the ONLY reason for going into Iraq was to vindicate his "Dad" Geez and even that you f...ked up... Smarter idiots then you said it was because a death threat against Bush's Dad was why Bush jr went in! Even in repeating idiocies you can't get it straigh

"General Shinkesi told Bush that we needed 500,000 troops to secure the country,and Bush went in with less than 160,000"
Again it is SO easy to get the FACTS...and easier to get correct spelling!
"four-star general Eric Shinseki"!!

Finally i'm going to ask you to show how ignorant you are!
Do you know why we still have over 140,000 troops in Asia/Europe 70 years after WWII?
I bet you don't know and YOU tout yourself as a "military" person...albeit an E6... a dumb ass staff sergeant!

 

[JoeB131]

YOU ARE A f...king LIAR! LIE: "I said that 600,000 died in the war FROM ALL CAUSES."
You wrote and I quote: "And , no most of the people we killed in Iraq - about 600,000 of them - were not "fighters" or anyone we had an argument with."

So English comprehension isn't one of your strong suits.

Yes, we KILLED people through indirect causes. That makes it OUR responsibility, you immoral warmongering little ****.

So now I've proven you are not only a LIAR but you even forget what you wrote!

No, you just prove you failed logic and morality. But it's okay. YOu want to send more kids back home in body bags so Trumpy doesn't look bad.

And you keep repeating that dumb ass.."Yes, and then Bush abused that support by going on a personal vendetta against Saddam for humiliating his Dad. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. He wasn't even a particularly devout Muslim." Where is your PROOF for that totally ignorant and unsubstantiated statement that idiots like you have repeated that the ONLY reason for going into Iraq was to vindicate his "Dad" Geez and even that you f...ked up... Smarter idiots then you said it was because a death threat against Bush's Dad was why Bush jr went in! Even in repeating idiocies you can't get it straigh

Uh, guy, here's the thing. There was no good reason to go to war with Saddam at that point. And it irked the shit out of Bush that his Daddy got voted out and Saddam was still thumbing his nose at us. 600,000 Iraqi and 6000 American corpses later, he fixed that.

"General Shinkesi told Bush that we needed 500,000 troops to secure the country,and Bush went in with less than 160,000"
Again it is SO easy to get the FACTS...and easier to get correct spelling!
"four-star general Eric Shinseki"!!

Okay, now you are getting a little hysterical. Let's try to stay on point. Shinseki said that we had to have 500K troops. Bush didn't listen. Given the country spiraled into chaos very quickly, hundreds of thousands of people died needlessly.

Finally i'm going to ask you to show how ignorant you are!
Do you know why we still have over 140,000 troops in Asia/Europe 70 years after WWII?
I bet you don't know and YOU tout yourself as a "military" person...albeit an E6... a dumb ass staff sergeant!

Are the Germans and Japanese still shooting at them? Do we have guys coming back in body bags every week? That's kind of a dumb statement.

 

[healthmyths]

YOU ARE A f...king LIAR! LIE: "I said that 600,000 died in the war FROM ALL CAUSES."
You wrote and I quote: "And , no most of the people we killed in Iraq - about 600,000 of them - were not "fighters" or anyone we had an argument with."

So English comprehension isn't one of your strong suits.

Yes, we KILLED people through indirect causes. That makes it OUR responsibility, you immoral warmongering little ****.

So now I've proven you are not only a LIAR but you even forget what you wrote!

No, you just prove you failed logic and morality. But it's okay. YOu want to send more kids back home in body bags so Trumpy doesn't look bad.

And you keep repeating that dumb ass.."Yes, and then Bush abused that support by going on a personal vendetta against Saddam for humiliating his Dad. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. He wasn't even a particularly devout Muslim." Where is your PROOF for that totally ignorant and unsubstantiated statement that idiots like you have repeated that the ONLY reason for going into Iraq was to vindicate his "Dad" Geez and even that you f...ked up... Smarter idiots then you said it was because a death threat against Bush's Dad was why Bush jr went in! Even in repeating idiocies you can't get it straigh

Uh, guy, here's the thing. There was no good reason to go to war with Saddam at that point. And it irked the shit out of Bush that his Daddy got voted out and Saddam was still thumbing his nose at us. 600,000 Iraqi and 6000 American corpses later, he fixed that.

"General Shinkesi told Bush that we needed 500,000 troops to secure the country,and Bush went in with less than 160,000"
Again it is SO easy to get the FACTS...and easier to get correct spelling!
"four-star general Eric Shinseki"!!

Okay, now you are getting a little hysterical. Let's try to stay on point. Shinseki said that we had to have 500K troops. Bush didn't listen. Given the country spiraled into chaos very quickly, hundreds of thousands of people died needlessly.

Finally i'm going to ask you to show how ignorant you are!
Do you know why we still have over 140,000 troops in Asia/Europe 70 years after WWII?
I bet you don't know and YOU tout yourself as a "military" person...albeit an E6... a dumb ass staff sergeant!

Are the Germans and Japanese still shooting at them? Do we have guys coming back in body bags every week? That's kind of a dumb statement.

There NEVER were 600,000 Iraqi corpses!
So now the SOLE reason according to you Bush "Liberated Iraq" was because his dad lost an election? GEEZ are you truly that dumb?
So why then are there still 140,000 Troops in Asia/Europe? You didn't answer the question!

 

[danielpalos]

I really don't understand these idiot liars that KNOW that it takes just a few minutes to show they are liars WHY they persist?
Unbelievable in this day when the FACTS are so easy to get!

they dont call em leftards for no reason

The right wing has always been clueless and Causeless; but for twice a day. This is Not, one of those, twice a day moments.

Well at least at the minimum the we of the "RIGHT" KNOW when NOT to help the bad guys kill our guys!
Can't say the same for these idiot /traitors who actually according to a Harvard study HELPED the terrorists kill people!
You asked "What else was Obama suppose to do?"
JUST SHUT THE F....K UP!
Remember Obama was the traitor who told the world "our troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians," Only an idiot tells the bad guys our guys are BAD!
He and these other traitors also helped the barbarians by telling the world:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "War is lost", Certainly gave the barbarians a good old atta boy!
U.S. Rep. Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,”
Or how about the future Secretary of State Senator Kerry(D)
"American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children." Calling our troops "TERRORISTS"!
With this mentality was it NO wonder ISIS regained Mosul,etc. and 11% of Afghanistan is still in barbarians' hands.
So is it NO surprise that the Harvard study found words like the above "emboldened" the terrorist to increase killings and violence after these statements were made to
cheerlead the bad guys and bad mouth our guys?
JUST SHUT THE F...K UP!

Y'all on the right wing cannot distinguish between the common Defense and the common Offense. Why should the left take y'all seriously?

We have general welfare clause not a general defense clause.

It really is that simple, dears.

 

[JoeB131]

There NEVER were 600,000 Iraqi corpses!
So now the SOLE reason according to you Bush "Liberated Iraq" was because his dad lost an election?

Not the sole reason. But it was how the Jews in PNAC and AIPAC were able to manipulate George W. Stupid into doing something his father and Clinton knew was a bad idea.

Richard Clarke, national security advisor at the time, said that Bush people were trying to link 9/11 to Iraq from the minute it happened.

GEEZ are you truly that dumb?
So why then are there still 140,000 Troops in Asia/Europe? You didn't answer the question!

Because it wasn't a relevant question to anything. We aren't in places where were aren't wanted. When they've asked us to leave, like the French did in the 1960's, we left.

 

[Conservative65]

Bout damned time.

Who the hell expects soldiers to fight with one hand tied behind their backs?

Men forced to use ridiculous Rules of Engagement prepared by folks who are sitting on their big fat asses safe at home??

Anyone that expects those soldiers to fight with one hand tied isn't fighting to win, they're fighting to not lose. Sad thing is that's what will happen. I thought soldiers fought to win. Doing so requires fighting harder than the enemy.

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his". - G. Patton.

Sometimes that involves fighting in a manner that some weaklings may not like but it produces excellent results.

 

[Conservative65]

What's our vital interest in staying in Afghanistan at this point?

Were you OK with being there when Obama was President? Wait, I already know your excuse.

 

[Conservative65]

Bout damned time.

Who the hell expects soldiers to fight with one hand tied behind their backs?

Men forced to use ridiculous Rules of Engagement prepared by folks who are sitting on their big fat asses safe at home??

Why are we still there again?

When you can tell me that, then we can discuss the Rules of Engagement.

Your BOY President had 8 years to get us out. When you can tell me why he didn't, then we can discuss anything you want.

 

[Conservative65]

I really don't understand these idiot liars that KNOW that it takes just a few minutes to show they are liars WHY they persist?
Unbelievable in this day when the FACTS are so easy to get!

they dont call em leftards for no reason

The right wing has always been clueless and Causeless; but for twice a day. This is Not, one of those, twice a day moments.

Well at least at the minimum the we of the "RIGHT" KNOW when NOT to help the bad guys kill our guys!
Can't say the same for these idiot /traitors who actually according to a Harvard study HELPED the terrorists kill people!
You asked "What else was Obama suppose to do?"
JUST SHUT THE F....K UP!
Remember Obama was the traitor who told the world "our troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians," Only an idiot tells the bad guys our guys are BAD!
He and these other traitors also helped the barbarians by telling the world:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid(D) "War is lost", Certainly gave the barbarians a good old atta boy!
U.S. Rep. Murtha(D) "Our troops killed innocent civilians in cold blood,”
Or how about the future Secretary of State Senator Kerry(D)
"American soldiers going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children." Calling our troops "TERRORISTS"!
With this mentality was it NO wonder ISIS regained Mosul,etc. and 11% of Afghanistan is still in barbarians' hands.
So is it NO surprise that the Harvard study found words like the above "emboldened" the terrorist to increase killings and violence after these statements were made to
cheerlead the bad guys and bad mouth our guys?
JUST SHUT THE F...K UP!

Y'all on the right wing cannot distinguish between the common Defense and the common Offense. Why should the left take y'all seriously?

We have general welfare clause not a general defense clause.

It really is that simple, dears.

"…make them believe, that offensive operations, often times, is the surest, if not the only (in some cases) means of defence" - G. Washington

"The best defense is a good offense"

I wouldn't expect a **** like you to understand either one.

We have powers of Congress in the Constitution that give direct authority to wage war. We don't have anything you idiots on the left use as examples of general welfare. Ponder on that, son.

 

[JoeB131]

Anyone that expects those soldiers to fight with one hand tied isn't fighting to win, they're fighting to not lose. Sad thing is that's what will happen. I thought soldiers fought to win. Doing so requires fighting harder than the enemy.

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his". - G. Patton.

Sometimes that involves fighting in a manner that some weaklings may not like but it produces excellent results.

guy, the Russians sent a million troops in Afghanistan and they were a lot more ruthless than we ever would tolerate, and they still ended up fleeing with their tails between their legs.

The problem we have is the same one they had. the same problem we had in Vietnam. It's not the ability to win on the battlefield, it's that the kind of government we want them to have they reject.

If you put the Taliban on the ballot, they'd probably win.

Your BOY President had 8 years to get us out. When you can tell me why he didn't, then we can discuss anything you want.

1) He mostly got us out. Trump is the one who wants to dive back in.

2) Doubling down on Afghanistan was one of the things I criticize Obama for. The exercise became pointless after Karzai stole the election in 2009.

 

[healthmyths]

There NEVER were 600,000 Iraqi corpses!
So now the SOLE reason according to you Bush "Liberated Iraq" was because his dad lost an election?

Not the sole reason. But it was how the Jews in PNAC and AIPAC were able to manipulate George W. Stupid into doing something his father and Clinton knew was a bad idea.

Richard Clarke, national security advisor at the time, said that Bush people were trying to link 9/11 to Iraq from the minute it happened.

GEEZ are you truly that dumb?
So why then are there still 140,000 Troops in Asia/Europe? You didn't answer the question!

Because it wasn't a relevant question to anything. We aren't in places where were aren't wanted. When they've asked us to leave, like the French did in the 1960's, we left.

So you believe GWB was a stupid pawn manipulated by people to do THEIR will.
But of course YOU the staff sergeant in the military KNEW OH so much better the GWB right after 9/11! You had MORE information on hand then GWB. Where were you in advising GWB not to go in?

Maybe you were one of the 10% that didn't like GWB in 2002...when GWB had the HIGHEST favorability rating of ANY president.

Maybe you being so sagacious you were part of the opposition of this group:
"I think in Washington, at the time, it's a testament to Bush's strength as president that he was able to take what had been a kind of fringe position -- that is, an invasion of Iraq -- and make it a mainstream position, almost on his own, by force of will. If you had gotten up in Washington at a dinner party in 2000 and said, "I think the United States should send a large armed force to Iraq, invade it, and conquer it, and occupy it," people would have thought you were nuts.
If you objected to that course in the spring of 2003, people in Washington would have thought you were nuts."
George W. Bush - The Iraq War Decision | The Choice 2004 | FRONTLINE | PBS

But of course YOU'VE always had 20/20 hindsight haven't you?
One fact I think you are totally ignorant about:
FACT: From 1991 until 1996 per capita GDP never rose above $507.
Iraq Economic Data (1989-2003) — Central Intelligence Agency
$16,500 (2016 est.)
Iraq's GDP grew by more than 10% in 2016, the best performance in the past decade, because of rising oil prices, a significant driver of Iraqi GDP
The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency
$500 in 2003 under Saddam... versus 2016 $16,500! That is a 3,200% growth in 13 years.
But of course YOU and your ignorant ilk would LOVE to have those Iraq people to live in a $500/per person Gross domestic product... a measure of a country's
economic well being.
By the way we dumb ass Americans with our dumb ass economy have a per capita GDP of $57,300!
But of course letting a staff sergeant run the country makes a whole lot of sense more then letting people with experiences with a little more responsibilities like GWB and Trump. Compared to Obama who NEVER ever ran anything and because of idiots like you who Obama said he lied openly to you calling you the "stupidity of American voter... !"

 

[healthmyths]

Anyone that expects those soldiers to fight with one hand tied isn't fighting to win, they're fighting to not lose. Sad thing is that's what will happen. I thought soldiers fought to win. Doing so requires fighting harder than the enemy.

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his". - G. Patton.

Sometimes that involves fighting in a manner that some weaklings may not like but it produces excellent results.

guy, the Russians sent a million troops in Afghanistan and they were a lot more ruthless than we ever would tolerate, and they still ended up fleeing with their tails between their legs.
Response to your above comment:
You won't do it but for other more scholarly and intellectually honest people this is a very definitive site describing in greater detail then a measly staff sergeant can understand!
One of many factors of Russia leaving Afghanistan:
Ironically, when the Soviet forces were compelled to withdraw from Afghanistan (April 15, 1989), the Soviet Union was beginning to undergo the initial stages of drastic reforms from above since the reign of Alexander II.
Afghanistan Online: The Role of Afghanistan in the fall of the USSR

The problem we have is the same one they had. the same problem we had in Vietnam. It's not the ability to win on the battlefield, it's that the kind of government we want them to have they reject.

If you put the Taliban on the ballot, they'd probably win.

So in response to your above comment that the problem was we attempted to FORCE Vietnamese and Afghanis to adopt US style governance?
Well Trump agrees with you! I know you don't comprehend because in your limited scope of honesty you won't look at realities but through your extremely unininformed
and biased lens:...
"America will continue its support for the Afghan government and the Afghan military as they confront the Taliban in the field. Ultimately, it is up to the people of Afghanistan to take ownership of their future, to govern their society, and to achieve an ever-lasting peace. We are a partner and a friend, but we will not dictate to the Afghan people how to live or how to govern their own complex society. We are not nation building again. We are killing terrorists
Full Transcript: Donald Trump Announces His Afghanistan Policy

I don't think you comprehend that statement but honestly GWB never wanted "Nation-building" EITHER!!!
In October 2000, presidential candidate George W. Bush famously derided the concept of nation building and the suggestion that the U.S. military should take the lead in building up failed states. “Maybe I’m missing something here,” Mr. Bush said in a debate with Democratic rival Al Gore. “I mean, are we going to have some kind of nation-building corps from America? Absolutely not.”
Bush a convert to nation building
9/11 Changed his mind!

Your BOY President had 8 years to get us out. When you can tell me why he didn't, then we can discuss anything you want.

1) He mostly got us out. Trump is the one who wants to dive back in.

2) Doubling down on Afghanistan was one of the things I criticize Obama for. The exercise became pointless after Karzai stole the election in 2009.

Response to your above comment:
You won't do it but for other more scholarly and intellectually honest people this is a very definitive site describing in greater detail then a measly staff sergeant can understand!
One of many factors of Russia leaving Afghanistan:
Ironically, when the Soviet forces were compelled to withdraw from Afghanistan (April 15, 1989), the Soviet Union was beginning to undergo the initial stages of drastic reforms from above since the reign of Alexander II.
Afghanistan Online: The Role of Afghanistan in the fall of the USSR

The problem we have is the same one they had. the same problem we had in Vietnam. It's not the ability to win on the battlefield, it's that the kind of government we want them to have they reject.

If you put the Taliban on the ballot, they'd probably win.

So in response to your above comment that the problem was we attempted to FORCE Vietnamese and Afghanis to adopt US style governance?
Well Trump agrees with you! I know you don't comprehend because in your limited scope of honesty you won't look at realities but through your extremely unininformed
and biased lens:...
"America will continue its support for the Afghan government and the Afghan military as they confront the Taliban in the field. Ultimately, it is up to the people of Afghanistan to take ownership of their future, to govern their society, and to achieve an ever-lasting peace. We are a partner and a friend, but we will not dictate to the Afghan people how to live or how to govern their own complex society. We are not nation building again. We are killing terrorists
Full Transcript: Donald Trump Announces His Afghanistan Policy

I don't think you comprehend that statement but honestly GWB never wanted "Nation-building" EITHER!!!
In October 2000, presidential candidate George W. Bush famously derided the concept of nation building and the suggestion that the U.S. military should take the lead in building up failed states. “Maybe I’m missing something here,” Mr. Bush said in a debate with Democratic rival Al Gore. “I mean, are we going to have some kind of nation-building corps from America? Absolutely not.”
Bush a convert to nation building
9/11 Changed his mind!

 

[JoeB131]

So you believe GWB was a stupid pawn manipulated by people to do THEIR will.
But of course YOU the staff sergeant in the military KNEW OH so much better the GWB right after 9/11! You had MORE information on hand then GWB. Where were you in advising GWB not to go in?

Oh, no, at the time, I was totally on board. Even though I left the military after the first Gulf War, I gave the president the benefit of the doubt. But now we know he lied. Or repeated other people's lies.

Keep in mind, I was pretty conservative until 2008 when my views changed after getting screwed over by an employer and a big insurance company.

Point of the matter is, Bush said Saddam had WMD's and he didn't. And a lot of people said he probably didn't at the time. There was no reason to go to war.

Maybe you were one of the 10% that didn't like GWB in 2002...when GWB had the HIGHEST favorability rating of ANY president.

No, like I said, I was pretty right wing up until 2008, when my boss at that time punctuated a royal ******* over with "Good thing I don't have to deal with a union". That's when I realized, I wasn't rich enough to vote Republican... and neither are you.

$500 in 2003 under Saddam... versus 2016 $16,500! That is a 3,200% growth in 13 years.
But of course YOU and your ignorant ilk would LOVE to have those Iraq people to live in a $500/per person Gross domestic product... a measure of a country's
economic well being.

A country where the people are only making $500 bucks a year, isn't a threat to us. I know the Military Industrial Complex needs fake threats like Iraq or North Korea to justify huge military pork budgets, but they really weren't.

So we dumped a Trillion Dollars into a country we had waged a decade of economic war on, and if you were lucky enough not to be one of the 600,000 people who died, you got to live with rampaging gangs of fanatics fighting over the resources that were left.

We really, really didn't do Iraq any favors by invading it.

But of course letting a staff sergeant run the country makes a whole lot of sense more then letting people with experiences with a little more responsibilities like GWB and Trump. Compared to Obama who NEVER ever ran anything and because of idiots like you who Obama said he lied openly to you calling you the "stupidity of American voter... !"

Dude, I don't want to run the country. Do I think I'm smarter than Bush or Trump? Um. Yeah. neither one of those guys is all that sharp, but they make Americans (the dumbest people in the industrialized world) feel better about themselves rather than address the real problems.

But let's run this down again. This thread is about Afghanistan. can you please let me know what brilliant strategy is going to change the course of the war?

Thanks.