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Ron Paul announced Presidential plan today

Avorysuds

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This is what it looks like when someone puts up a serious plan with numbers to back up their positions.

This link is to just a general news story, this is a simplistic breakdown of the plan:
Ron Paul proposes saving $1T by scrapping five federal departments - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

This link is to actual graphs, numbers, charts and whatever you could ever want provided to understand how the plan will achieve its said goal: http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/RestoreAmericaPlan.pdf

Looks good to me, looking forward to seeing if the plan is legit.

There is a lot of information provided so I fully understand if this thread does not get much trafic, lol.
 

Avatar4321

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I could get behind something like this. though i think cutting the government back to at least 2002 levels would be better.
 

Wiseacre

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I'm okay with cutting back those dep'ts and maybe eventually eliminating them, but not all at once. I'd be gradually cutting back over time to get there rather than in one year cuz it could really hurt the economy enough to put us into another recession.
 
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Avorysuds

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I could get behind something like this. though i think cutting the government back to at least 2002 levels would be better.

I think one of RP’s weakest points is he has never had a 4 year plan. The media and debates watch RP implode because they ask him questions about what he believes or what he would like to see done under certain circumstances knowing people will think “HOL FUCKING SHIT.”

I’m very happy to see Paul put down a workable plan in 4 years, I hope he sticks to it.
 
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Avorysuds

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I'm okay with cutting back those dep'ts and maybe eventually eliminating them, but not all at once. I'd be gradually cutting back over time to get there rather than in one year cuz it could really hurt the economy enough to put us into another recession.

Well... 4 years is not all at once imo. =D
 
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Avorysuds

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BTW, thanks you 2 for taking the time to look at this, I know it sucks for some people to actually read details =D.
 

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Why would it suck to look at details of something ive been advocating for a while.
 

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Let me guess, 1.) make drugs legal and tax them 2.) sell nukes to Iran.
 
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Avorysuds

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Let me guess, 1.) make drugs legal and tax them 2.) sell nukes to Iran.

Not sure if you're trying to make fun of people that would say something like that or if you really mean it...

Open the links and read, I know it's not as catchy as other plans but sometimes plans involve planning.
 
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Avorysuds

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Why would it suck to look at details of something ive been advocating for a while.

I meant for most posters and voters. I know you give people a shot, even if you're not sold on them, one of the reasons I respect you as a poster here.
 

DontBeStupid

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While it's nice to finally see a GOP candidate put forth a plan with serious back up attached, Ron Paul's plan is bat shit crazy. A good education would become a luxury of those who could afford one. States would be allowed to pollute other states with no recourse. Unemployment would go up. Income inequality would go up. The number of uninsured would go up. We would be positioned to have another asset bubble.

And worst of all, we would have no national security plan when it comes to energy independence or airport security.

Bat. Shit. Crazy.
 
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Avorysuds

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While it's nice to finally see a GOP candidate put forth a plan with serious back up attached, Ron Paul's plan is bat shit crazy. A good education would become a luxury of those who could afford one. States would be allowed to pollute other states with no recourse. Unemployment would go up. Income inequality would go up. The number of uninsured would go up. We would be positioned to have another asset bubble.

And worst of all, we would have no national security plan when it comes to energy independence or airport security.

Bat. Shit. Crazy.

And you can back any of that up with.............


That's what I thought.

More or less I take it you didn't read the plan or you did but figured you wouldn't comment on it. Maybe you didn't like the ending of the wars part, lol...
 
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Defiant1

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Let me guess, 1.) make drugs legal and tax them 2.) sell nukes to Iran.

Not sure if you're trying to make fun of people that would say something like that or if you really mean it...

Open the links and read, I know it's not as catchy as other plans but sometimes plans involve planning.

No, I'm at work. Didn't have time to read RP's plan so I was guessing what it was.
 

Dont Taz Me Bro

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A good education would become a luxury of those who could afford one.

How's that?

States would be allowed to pollute other states with no recourse.

Did I miss him abolishing the judiciary?

Unemployment would go up. Income inequality would go up.

Elaborate

The number of uninsured would go up. We would be positioned to have another asset bubble.

Again, explain

And worst of all, we would have no national security plan when it comes to energy independence or airport security.

Did I miss the part where he abolished national security?
 

Dont Taz Me Bro

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While it's nice to finally see a GOP candidate put forth a plan with serious back up attached, Ron Paul's plan is bat shit crazy. A good education would become a luxury of those who could afford one. States would be allowed to pollute other states with no recourse. Unemployment would go up. Income inequality would go up. The number of uninsured would go up. We would be positioned to have another asset bubble.

And worst of all, we would have no national security plan when it comes to energy independence or airport security.

Bat. Shit. Crazy.

And you can back any of that up with.............


That's what I thought.

More or less I take it you didn't read the plan or you did but figured you wouldn't comment on it.

Just a knee jerk reaction. He put little to no thought in to what he wrote.
 

pgm

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This is what it looks like when someone puts up a serious plan with numbers to back up their positions.

Yay.

This link is to just a general news story, this is a simplistic breakdown of the plan:
Ron Paul proposes saving $1T by scrapping five federal departments - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

On the simplistic breakdown first:
*Cutting $1 trillion in one year will hurt a lot. I'm not saying it's not a good thing in the long run, but it'll certainly be bad in the short run. If a business that spent a trillion dollars a year suddenly stopped spending that money, it would have a huge ripple effect on the world economy. Still, it's a scary thought that so many are dependent on one thing (no matter how you feel about the role of government), so making the economy more independent from big government is a good idea. I just wouldn't do the transition in one year (especially right now).
*Cutting regulation should make up for some of the negative effects of cutting spending. You won't reduce the costs of regulation to make up 1 trillion dollars, but it'll certainly help.
*The bully pulpit has not proven itself at all effective in at least George Bush or Barack Obama's presidencies. Bush tried it on his social security reform and failed. Obama is trying it with his jobs bill and it is not yet doing anything. I don't see Ron Paul as having a better ability to bully Congress into action.
*The power of the veto may work better because Paul will obviously use it in a consistent and principled way. It could just end up with nothing happening at all, however, unless 2/3s of Congress can come up with a compromise that isn't what Paul wants.
*Changing entitlement spending to block grants could be good because it will create competition on who can come up with the best plan. But it also might hurt people as states could be more interested in cutting costs than providing the best service.
*Cutting the federal workforce by 10% is definitely good as a long-term goal, but it'll certainly hurt the economy by massively increasing unemployment.
*He can't cut the pay of Congress in one year. He can have Congress change the pay for the second two years.
*I support the idea of a $40K/year presidential salary. The President does have tons of expenses (he has to pay for food, including the meals by the White House chef). Supposedly, the President has $50K/year in expenses. But the President can learn to spend less.
*Moving the capital gains tax to zero will definitely help investment. But it'll help the people who make their income off of capital gains far, far more. I could question the fairness of it, but instead I'll question whether it could be distortionary to favor investment income far more than other income. It'll spur growth, but it could also increase risk.
OK, that's all on this.

This link is to actual graphs, numbers, charts and whatever you could ever want provided to understand how the plan will achieve its said goal: http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/RestoreAmericaPlan.pdf

Looks good to me, looking forward to seeing if the plan is legit.

I'll read those later. I do believe Paul's numbers. Particularly since he predicts government revenue to drop with the drop in taxes. I question his growth predictions slightly (I fear a double dip if one trillion is taken out of the economy in a year). I don't necessarily think they're wrong--I just would like to see some more independent analysis. But Paul's focus isn't on increasing revenue anyway--it's on cutting spending.
 

DontBeStupid

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A good education would become a luxury of those who could afford one.

How's that?

States would be allowed to pollute other states with no recourse.

Did I miss him abolishing the judiciary?



Elaborate

The number of uninsured would go up. We would be positioned to have another asset bubble.

Again, explain

And worst of all, we would have no national security plan when it comes to energy independence or airport security.

Did I miss the part where he abolished national security?
The Department of Education handles money going to states and also enforces existing educational laws. If you do away with that Department, then no one is handling federal money (most likely because there wouldn't be any) and no one is enforcing existing laws, so obviously schools would stop following them. No money and no enforcement would not lead to better public schools. It's the same with the EPA. They set standards for pollution and enforce those standards. No one enforcing means no one following means states can pollute each other and it's not against the law.

Paul's plan cuts the government work force by 10%, which will mean hundreds of thousands more unemployed. He also repeals the Affordable Care Act while replacing it with nothing. This means there will be no plan, at all, to help control insurance costs, which means every year more and more people will be uninsured. He also repeals the recent finance reforms, while replacing them with nothing, which means there will be no measures in place to prevent another asset bubble.

Put all this together and it SEVERELY hurts the middle and lower classes. Paul compensates them by .... massively cutting taxes for the wealthy. Middle and lower income earners already have ways to get dividends and invest tax-free. Eliminating taxes on capital gains and dividends is a massive gift to the wealthy. They can grow their wealth completely tax free, which will lead to even greater inequality.

The ONLY part of Paul's plan I like is ending the wars. It's the only part that will help our country.
 
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Avorysuds

Avorysuds

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Sorry I had to take my GF to the ER because she got a "needle stick" while giving shots. The problem with your numbers DBS is that the jobs Obama has "created" are fake, meaning unless he keeps dumping tens of billions into keeping them they will fade away. 3 years later and we are worse off, so you can't really argue his way worked.

Oh and all that spending build a huge deficit that got the country downgraded.
 

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