Romneycare vs. Obamacare.............

[ABikerSailor]

Both plans that are laid out by Romney and Obama cut about the same amount from the budget..............the only question is where that 713 billion would be cut FROM.

Romney/Ryan's budget would eliminate the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and they would then reinstate the 713 dollars cut from the INSURANCE PROGRAMS AND HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS and give everyone a voucher. Basically, they'd cut the money from the people actually using it and give it back to the corporations.

Obama/Biden's budget would keep the Affordable Care Act, but the 713 billion would be cut from the insurance companies and certain healthcare providers, while providing health care for everyone at cheap rates.

If you want healthcare, vote Obama.

And oh yeah..................Ryan said Romneycare is failing in MA. According to their facts and figures, nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

[Black_Label]

Good post, this is what I find funny is Willard trashing the ACA, when Romneycare was his signature piece of legislation (maybe next to the state level assault weapons ban)

It's clear he is doing nothing but pandering to the hard right trolls to get votes. The ACA is here to stay.

 

[Trajan]

Both plans that are laid out by Romney and Obama cut about the same amount from the budget..............the only question is where that 713 billion would be cut FROM.

Romney/Ryan's budget would eliminate the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and they would then reinstate the 713 dollars cut from the INSURANCE PROGRAMS AND HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS and give everyone a voucher. Basically, they'd cut the money from the people actually using it and give it back to the corporations.

Obama/Biden's budget would keep the Affordable Care Act, but the 713 billion would be cut from the insurance companies and certain healthcare providers, while providing health care for everyone at cheap rates.

If you want healthcare, vote Obama.

And oh yeah..................Ryan said Romneycare is failing in MA. According to their facts and figures, nothing could be farther from the truth.

obama takes that $7113 Bn and uses it not to finance medicare for folks at 65 or older and the system for them now, but to buttress costs for the rest of obamacare, namely, care given to you younger folks. ....you understand that ...right?


ryans plan does not effect anyone over 55, nor will it for anyone who opts to stay in the "traditional" medicare mechanism and schedule as it applies right this moment.

it encourages competition to flatten or lower costs provided to medicare patients by requiring bids for offers for coverage plans, the 2nd lowest bid will be chosen, hence there will always be an opportunity to spend less for those that wish too.

ryans plan sends the cuts back to medicare. Obamas doesn't, he will count on a 15 member unelected board to tell ins. co'.s via price controls and cutting services they don't think are efficacious treatments for patients etc.

let me share a snippet that I think many will find interesting;

circa summer 2010-

A panel at the American Enterprise Institute featured Richard Foster, the Medicare actuary who estimates that ObamaCare's $716 billion in Medicare cuts will cause one of six hospitals to become unprofitable. In the audience was Chip Kahn, the president of a for-profit hospital trade group that lobbied for ObamaCare, who stood up to defend the bargain his industry cut in return for 30 million new subsidized customers.

Mr. Foster noted that the cuts, which come via a technical change to Medicare payment rates, apply in perpetuity. But the hospitals only get the extra patients once, so the wedge between costs and benefits for hospitals widens over time.


"Well," Mr. Kahn replied, "you can say, 'Did you make a bad deal?' Fortunately I don't think I'll probably be working after 2020." When Mr. Foster pressed him, he joked again, "I'm glad my contract only goes another six years."


more at-
Joseph Rago: The Forgotten History of Ryan's Medicare Reform - WSJ.com

 

[ABikerSailor]

Actually, Obama uses that 713 billion to keep the donut hole closed for seniors (which will go away under Romney/Ryan, because they'll get rid of the ACA), which means that if ACA goes away, Grandma and Grandpa will see IMMEDIATE price increases.

And yeah...............Ryan even stated that he wants to give the cuts in spending BACK to the insurance companies and health care providers.

Face it.......................Romney/Ryan want health care back in the hands of the corporations, and Obama/Biden want affordable health care for all.

The 713 billion dollar cut wouln't affect the recepients, just the insurance companies (who charge way too much for their product anyway).

 

[ABikerSailor]

And now.............Ryan has his mother lying for him about what he's gonna do to Medicare.

 

[Greenbeard]

And now.............Ryan has his mother lying for him about what he's gonna do to Medicare.

I wonder if Mom knows Romney proposes to move the date of the Medicare trust fund's insolvency up to 2016. In return, he promises to start reforming Medicare starting in 2023.

Sounds like a great plan.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Both plans that are laid out by Romney and Obama cut about the same amount from the budget..............the only question is where that 713 billion would be cut FROM.

Romney/Ryan's budget would eliminate the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and they would then reinstate the 713 dollars cut from the INSURANCE PROGRAMS AND HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS and give everyone a voucher. Basically, they'd cut the money from the people actually using it and give it back to the corporations.

Obama/Biden's budget would keep the Affordable Care Act, but the 713 billion would be cut from the insurance companies and certain healthcare providers, while providing health care for everyone at cheap rates.

If you want healthcare, vote Obama.

And oh yeah..................Ryan said Romneycare is failing in MA. According to their facts and figures, nothing could be farther from the truth.

obama takes that $7113 Bn and uses it not to finance medicare for folks at 65 or older and the system for them now, but to buttress costs for the rest of obamacare, namely, care given to you younger folks. ....you understand that ...right?


ryans plan does not effect anyone over 55, nor will it for anyone who opts to stay in the "traditional" medicare mechanism and schedule as it applies right this moment.

it encourages competition to flatten or lower costs provided to medicare patients by requiring bids for offers for coverage plans, the 2nd lowest bid will be chosen, hence there will always be an opportunity to spend less for those that wish too.

ryans plan sends the cuts back to medicare. Obamas doesn't, he will count on a 15 member unelected board to tell ins. co'.s via price controls and cutting services they don't think are efficacious treatments for patients etc.

let me share a snippet that I think many will find interesting;

circa summer 2010-

A panel at the American Enterprise Institute featured Richard Foster, the Medicare actuary who estimates that ObamaCare's $716 billion in Medicare cuts will cause one of six hospitals to become unprofitable. In the audience was Chip Kahn, the president of a for-profit hospital trade group that lobbied for ObamaCare, who stood up to defend the bargain his industry cut in return for 30 million new subsidized customers.

Mr. Foster noted that the cuts, which come via a technical change to Medicare payment rates, apply in perpetuity. But the hospitals only get the extra patients once, so the wedge between costs and benefits for hospitals widens over time.


"Well," Mr. Kahn replied, "you can say, 'Did you make a bad deal?' Fortunately I don't think I'll probably be working after 2020." When Mr. Foster pressed him, he joked again, "I'm glad my contract only goes another six years."


more at-
Joseph Rago: The Forgotten History of Ryan's Medicare Reform - WSJ.com

The Affordable Care Act changes to Medicare extended its solvency to 2024. When ACA is repealed and those changes voided,

solvency falls back to 2016.

If the Romney/Ryan plan has no effect on anyone under 55, then nothing in Medicare changes for 10 years. That's 6 years beyond 2016. Medicare will be broke by then.

 

[SniperFire]

Both plans that are laid out by Romney and Obama cut about the same amount from the budget..............the only question is where that 713 billion would be cut FROM.

Romney/Ryan's budget would eliminate the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and they would then reinstate the 713 dollars cut from the INSURANCE PROGRAMS AND HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS and give everyone a voucher. Basically, they'd cut the money from the people actually using it and give it back to the corporations.

Obama/Biden's budget would keep the Affordable Care Act, but the 713 billion would be cut from the insurance companies and certain healthcare providers, while providing health care for everyone at cheap rates.

If you want healthcare, vote Obama.

And oh yeah..................Ryan said Romneycare is failing in MA. According to their facts and figures, nothing could be farther from the truth.

obama takes that $7113 Bn and uses it not to finance medicare for folks at 65 or older and the system for them now, but to buttress costs for the rest of obamacare, namely, care given to you younger folks. ....you understand that ...right?


ryans plan does not effect anyone over 55, nor will it for anyone who opts to stay in the "traditional" medicare mechanism and schedule as it applies right this moment.

it encourages competition to flatten or lower costs provided to medicare patients by requiring bids for offers for coverage plans, the 2nd lowest bid will be chosen, hence there will always be an opportunity to spend less for those that wish too.

ryans plan sends the cuts back to medicare. Obamas doesn't, he will count on a 15 member unelected board to tell ins. co'.s via price controls and cutting services they don't think are efficacious treatments for patients etc.

let me share a snippet that I think many will find interesting;

circa summer 2010-

A panel at the American Enterprise Institute featured Richard Foster, the Medicare actuary who estimates that ObamaCare's $716 billion in Medicare cuts will cause one of six hospitals to become unprofitable. In the audience was Chip Kahn, the president of a for-profit hospital trade group that lobbied for ObamaCare, who stood up to defend the bargain his industry cut in return for 30 million new subsidized customers.

Mr. Foster noted that the cuts, which come via a technical change to Medicare payment rates, apply in perpetuity. But the hospitals only get the extra patients once, so the wedge between costs and benefits for hospitals widens over time.


"Well," Mr. Kahn replied, "you can say, 'Did you make a bad deal?' Fortunately I don't think I'll probably be working after 2020." When Mr. Foster pressed him, he joked again, "I'm glad my contract only goes another six years."


more at-
Joseph Rago: The Forgotten History of Ryan's Medicare Reform - WSJ.com

The Affordable Care Act changes to Medicare extended its solvency to 2024. When ACA is repealed and those changes voided,

solvency falls back to 2016.

If the Romney/Ryan plan has no effect on anyone under 55, then nothing in Medicare changes for 10 years. That's 6 years beyond 2016. Medicare will be broke by then.

Untrue.

'Double Counting: The actuary also previously confirmed that the Medicare reductions in Obamacare “cannot be simultaneously used to finance other federal outlays and to extend the [Medicare] trust fund” solvency date – rendering dubious any potential claims that Obamacare will extend Medicare’s solvency. As Speaker Pelosi admitted last year, Democrats “took a half a trillion dollars out of Medicare in [Obamacare], the health care bill” – and you can’t improve Medicare’s solvency by taking money out of the program.'

Trustees: Medicare Will Go Broke in 2016, If You Exclude Obamacare's Double-Counting - Forbes

Even a moron such as yourself should be able to figure that you can't improve the solvency by taking money out of the program.
'

 

[Zander]

Romney has a different plan than Ryan, so you people are full of Obamaloney.

 

[Trajan]

Actually, Obama uses that 713 billion to keep the donut hole closed for seniors (which will go away under Romney/Ryan, because they'll get rid of the ACA), which means that if ACA goes away, Grandma and Grandpa will see IMMEDIATE price increases.

And yeah...............Ryan even stated that he wants to give the cuts in spending BACK to the insurance companies and health care providers.

Face it.......................Romney/Ryan want health care back in the hands of the corporations, and Obama/Biden want affordable health care for all.

The 713 billion dollar cut wouln't affect the recepients, just the insurance companies (who charge way too much for their product anyway).

you didn't read a word I posted, but whats new, you are just here to emote.....

anyway, a few more tidbits for the those that actually read-

ABiker is and wishes to remain ignorant apparently of the wheeling and dealing obama did with PhRMA, or big pharma which is the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, who settled on 80 Bn in give backs after chewing Obama down from 100 Bn, ( with the help of course of Pfizers CEO) after getting what they wanted and almost got screwed by their own greed, ponied up $150 million for an advertising campaign coordinated with the WH to support obamacare......see?

Big Pharma went from evil bloodsucking drug industry to being saints..... what they don't realize is, if obamcare stands they will get screwed anyway when price controls and or drug importation are mandated as obamacare turns over every couch cushion looking to save money, aside from their boards of experts ( Ipab) telling doctors they cannot prescribe certain drugs ( expensive ones) for the aged and poor risk treatments.

and that money cannot be spent twice so any budget neutrality is in the shitter, isn't it Greenbeard? CLASS defunct, double accounting as to the original 500 Bn taken from medicare........where does the money come from now?

so biker, lets see your shocked face....



tell him greenbeard, post the truth for a change.....

 

[Greenbeard]

Romney has a different plan than Ryan, so you people are full of Obamaloney.

That's his problem.

Ryan retained the ACA's savings to keep the insolvency date extended to the mid-2020s. By which point his reforms would have started kicking in.

Romney felt compelled to say he'd "restore" Obama's savings (apparently not even Multiple Choice Mitt felt he could campaign on them and demonize them simultaneously), accelerating the depletion of the trust fund. So now the trust fund will be insolvent in 2016, as was going to happen pre-ACA. And his plans to reform Medicare don't start until 2023.

That's a huge problem for him. And it's a problem Ryan didn't have.

 

[SniperFire]

Romney has a different plan than Ryan, so you people are full of Obamaloney.

That's his problem.

Ryan retained the ACA's savings to keep the insolvency date extended to the mid-2020s. By which point his reforms would have started kicking in.

Romney felt compelled to say he'd "restore" them (apparently not even Multiple Choice Mitt felt he could campaign on them and demonize them simultaneously), accelerating the depletion of the trust fund. So now the trust fund will be insolvent in 2016, as it was going to happen pre-ACA. And his plans to reform Medicare don't start until 2023.

That's a huge problem for him. And it's a problem Ryan didn't have.

The insolvency date has not changed. Obama is double-counting.

America needs to get people who are good with numbers like Romney / Ryan in there to fix it.


Fast.

 

[Zander]

Romney has a different plan than Ryan, so you people are full of Obamaloney.

That's his problem.

Ryan retained the ACA's savings to keep the insolvency date extended to the mid-2020s. By which point his reforms would have started kicking in.

Romney felt compelled to say he'd "restore" them (apparently not even Multiple Choice Mitt felt he could campaign on them and demonize them simultaneously), accelerating the depletion of the trust fund. So now the trust fund will be insolvent in 2016, as it was going to happen pre-ACA. And his plans to reform Medicare don't start until 2023.

That's a huge problem for him. And it's a problem Ryan didn't have.

More Obamaloney from the resident Obamacare shill.....

I love a good fairy tale...so please tell us how Obamacare saves money again...

 

[Greenbeard]

More Obamaloney from the resident Obamacare shill.....

I love a good fairy tale...so please tell us how Obamacare saves money again...

What happens to Ryan's mom (or anyone's, for that matter) between 2016, when Romney bankrupts Medicare, and 2023 when his reforms--that Mom isn't supposed to be subject to anyway--allegedly start?

Any ideas?

 

[SniperFire]

More Obamaloney from the resident Obamacare shill.....

I love a good fairy tale...so please tell us how Obamacare saves money again...

What happens to Ryan's mom (or anyone's, for that matter) between 2016, when Romney bankrupts Medicare, and 2023 when his reforms--that Mom isn't supposed to be subject to anyway--allegedly start?

Any ideas?

The insolvency date has not changed, regardless of what your Talking Points Memo told you to say.

But in a couple of days, you will just move on to your next lie.

 

[Zander]

More Obamaloney from the resident Obamacare shill.....

I love a good fairy tale...so please tell us how Obamacare saves money again...

What happens to Ryan's mom (or anyone's, for that matter) between 2016, when Romney bankrupts Medicare, and 2023 when his reforms--that Mom isn't supposed to be subject to anyway--allegedly start?

Any ideas?

I don't care. I am confident that they'll figure something out.

Meanwhile, more bad news for Obamacare......http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/u...-make-family-coverage-too-costly.html?_r=4&hp

 

[Trajan]

More Obamaloney from the resident Obamacare shill.....

I love a good fairy tale...so please tell us how Obamacare saves money again...

What happens to Ryan's mom (or anyone's, for that matter) between 2016, when Romney bankrupts Medicare, and 2023 when his reforms--that Mom isn't supposed to be subject to anyway--allegedly start?

Any ideas?

I don't care. I am confident that they'll figure something out.

Meanwhile, more bad news for Obamacare......http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/u...-make-family-coverage-too-costly.html?_r=4&hp

you need to log in for that zander.....i don't pay to read the NY Times

 

[Greenbeard]

I don't care. I am confident that they'll figure something out.

Six months ago I would've assumed that at worst Romney would've turned out to be a competent technocrat.

But after one disastrous, ill-thought out policy proposal after another I'm starting to think he's kind of an idiot. At least when it comes to public policy. Perhaps he should go back to something he's good at.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Both plans that are laid out by Romney and Obama cut about the same amount from the budget..............the only question is where that 713 billion would be cut FROM.

Romney/Ryan's budget would eliminate the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) and they would then reinstate the 713 dollars cut from the INSURANCE PROGRAMS AND HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS and give everyone a voucher. Basically, they'd cut the money from the people actually using it and give it back to the corporations.

Obama/Biden's budget would keep the Affordable Care Act, but the 713 billion would be cut from the insurance companies and certain healthcare providers, while providing health care for everyone at cheap rates.

If you want healthcare, vote Obama.

And oh yeah..................Ryan said Romneycare is failing in MA. According to their facts and figures, nothing could be farther from the truth.

I guess the fact that obamacare takes the 713 billion from medicare doesn't matter right? Idiots.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So all of a sudden now it's OK to discuss Medicare cuts because Obama hacked $700B to pay for Obamacare.

Hmmmmkay