Role Reversal: Canada Blames America for Violence...

[insein]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html

Canada blames U.S. for gun violence
Toronto shooting is latest death in a record year

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 Posted: 0254 GMT

TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.

Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.

The shooting stemmed from a dispute among a group of 10 to 15 youth, and the victim was a teenager out with a parent near a popular shopping mall, police said Tuesday.

"I think it's a day that Toronto has finally lost its innocence," Det. Sgt. Savas Kyriacou said. "It was a tragic loss and tragic day."

While many Canadians take pride in Canadian cities being less violent than their American counterparts, Toronto has seen 78 murders this year, including a record 52 gun-related deaths -- almost twice as many as last year.

"What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.

"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.

Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.

Miller said the availability of stolen Canadian guns is another problem, and that poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.

"There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity. The kind of programs that we once took for granted in Canada that would reach out to young people have systematically disappeared over the past decade and I think that gun violence is a symptom of a much bigger problem," Miller said.

The escalating violence prompted the prime minister to announce earlier this month that if re-elected on January 23, his government would ban handguns. With severe restrictions already in place against handgun ownership, many criticized the announcement as politics.

Martin, who says up to half of the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons brought in illegally from the United States, raised the smuggling problem when he met with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in October.

Martin offered his condolences in a statement Tuesday, saying he was horrified by the shootings.

"What we saw yesterday is a stark reminder of the challenge that governments, police forces and communities face to ensure that Canadian cities do not descend into the kind of rampant gun violence we have seen elsewhere," Martin said.

John Thompson, a security analyst with the Toronto-based Mackenzie Institute, says the number of guns smuggled from the United States is a problem, but that Canada has a gang problem -- not a gun problem -- and that Canada should stop pointing the finger at the United States.

"It's a cop out. It's an easy way of looking at one symptom rather than addressing a whole disease," Thompson said.

Two suspects were arrested and at least one firearm was seized soon after the shootings Monday. Kyriacou said it was an illegal handgun.

Three females and four males were injured, including one male who is in critical condition. Police believe they were bystanders.

Liberalism sure is a disease, Mr. Thompson. How else do you get the idea that illegal gun smugglers are going to listen to harsher gun laws if they already dont listen to the ones that are in place? Then on top of that, how is it that arresting the individuals who committed the crime not enough but that they have to add further government programs to help these would be murderers into not becoming murderers?

Thank god i dont live in Canada.

 

[Said1]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html



Liberalism sure is a disease, Mr. Thompson. How else do you get the idea that illegal gun smugglers are going to listen to harsher gun laws if they already dont listen to the ones that are in place? Then on top of that, how is it that arresting the individuals who committed the crime not enough but that they have to add further government programs to help these would be murderers into not becoming murderers?

Thank god i dont live in Canada.

Martin's been singing that song for weeks. He wants to ban all hand guns. Period.

 

[insein]

Martin's been singing that song for weeks. He wants to ban all hand guns. Period.

I realize your Canadian, Said. How do you live with these politicians though? At least the liberals we have here are becoming more marginalized. The ones in Canada are still the majority.

 

[Said1]

I realize your Canadian, Said. How do you live with these politicians though? At least the liberals we have here are becoming more marginalized. The ones in Canada are still the majority.

To be honest, a lot of it is mouth service. For the most part, they tend to run on the left and lead on the right, although I think the hand gun thing has a good chance of going through on a provincial level in Ontario. The liberals don't hold a majority government though and probably won't for some time. The real "leftist" party isn't that popular but lately.............. :bat:

 

[insein]

To be honest, a lot of it is mouth service. For the most part, they tend to run on the left and lead on the right, although I think the hand gun thing has a good chance of going through on a provincial level in Ontario. The liberals don't hold a majority government though and probably won't for some time. The real "leftist" party isn't that popular but lately.............. :bat:

Well thats good for your sake.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

IF all citizens over 30 were REQUIRED to carry handguns violent crime would drop to near zero.

Too bad these libs get everthing backasswards.

 

[Said1]

IF all citizens over 30 were REQUIRED to carry handguns violent crime would drop to near zero.

Too bad these libs get everthing backasswards.

Knives have always been the weapon of choice up here. You'd think they'd start there.

 

[Said1]

From the Toronto mayor.

Miller reiterates his support for handgun ban
Last updated Dec 28 2005 09:20 AM EST
CBC News

While it's only half the solution, the first step to ending the recent spate of gun violence in the city is straightforward, said Mayor David Miller – cut off the supply of handguns.

In a sweeping interview on the CBC Radio program The Current, Miller said guns are getting into the hands of criminals through two sources, half from across the border and half from the theft of weapons from collectors and stores.

"We know, for example, that in Toronto two years ago there was a theft of a number of guns from a legal owner in Malvern," said Miller, by telephone from his family vacation in Spain. "Twelve of which were recovered later by police at crime scenes."

He would also like to see more done across the border.

"We need to advocate in the United States for them to have stronger gun control laws. Police statistics show that about half the guns that they are able to determine the origin of are from the U.S."

And along with that, stronger border controls are also needed, he said.

Miller continued to support Prime Minister Paul Martin's call for an almost complete ban of handgun ownership in the country, an initiative that has drawn fire for being merely an election ploy and, according to a gun shop owner in Edmonton, has increased sales of weapons four-fold.

"I can't speak of conditions in Edmonton, but in Toronto there is absolutely no need for anyone to have a handgun," Miller said. "In Toronto, the vast majority of people don't believe in handgun ownership, and whether it's election time or not, it's good public policy."

Putting more police on the street in communities is another way to fight gun violence, as is "investing in young people who are getting drawn into the gang culture to show them they have a real chance outside of the gangs."

What it comes down to, Miller said, is that "a gun turns somebody into a killer."

Link

 

[nbdysfu]

"We know, for example, that in Toronto two years ago there was a theft of a number of guns from a legal owner in Malvern," said Miller, by telephone from his family vacation in Spain. "Twelve of which were recovered later by police at crime scenes."

He would also like to see more done across the border.

"We need to advocate in the United States for them to have stronger gun control laws. Police statistics show that about half the guns that they are able to determine the origin of are from the U.S."

Not that I'm suggesting a politician would be misleading, but is it possible that the canadian who legally owned at least 12 guns had a few american handguns in his collection? How many American handguns used in crime can he actually prove were smuggled illegally from the states?