Right-Wing Challenge: Fair Income Tax For The Top 50% vs Bottom 50%

[CowboyTed]

I think we shouldnt be on the list,,

taxing a mans work is as fascist as it gets,,

it literally takes food out of working peoples mouths,,

So how do you think the Government should be paid for by society?

If you want no tax you are saying what is wrong with life in Mad Max..

 

[JohnDB]

Here is the challenge and it is based on next year's budget.

You need to raise about $2.4T in personal income taxes just to be $2.0T short of next year's expenses (Trump's plan) in a way that allows people to also live a life.

How do you raise your $2.4T from income taxes between the two halves of earners? Bottom half and top half.

Today we get 98% from the top 50% as it is circled in red on the chart to the right but as you can see they earn almost all the income and certainly 100% of the discretionary income after you put bare bones living expenses against $23k vs 137k.

What is "fair" to you?

I predict a long line of right-wingers suggesting we take $200B from people making $23K still leaving a $1.6T deficit without regard to how one would live. But maybe they will surprise me with some thoughtful reflection on income tax burdens and living with low means.

GO!

Trump 2026 Budget
$7T in Expenses

$2.4T of Income Tax
$1.7T of Payroll Tax
$0.5T of Corporate Tax
$0.5T of Excise and Tariffs
$5.2T of Revenue

$1.8T Deficit


View attachment 1229675

How does the federal tax system affect low-income households?

taxpolicycenter.org

Trump does NOT set budget and taxes....

That duty belongs to CONGRESS....

The ONLY "tax" Trump can levy is the emergency tarrifs. Also import and export dock fees and licenses (petroleum products)

Then Congress sets the budget....and the current congress is absolutely uninterested in curbing spending which is what is creating budget shortfalls. ALL members are more interested in showing their constituents what they did to bring government dollars to their home state than demonstrate how they kept taxes low.

 

[kyzr]

Explain why it isn’t fair to treat everyone the same.

You explain why we should tax Elon Musk and billionaires the same as the working poor.
Most of us know why, you apparently don't.

 

[citygator]

Cutting spending will allow revenues to catch up.

Words typed. If you are willing to give up your Boomer SS and Medicare then were are in business. Otherwise we need increased tax revenue Boomer.

 

[kyzr]

Words typed. If you are willing to give up your Boomer SS and Medicare then were are in business. Otherwise we need increased tax revenue Boomer.

We boomers paid for our SS and Medicare.
If you want to cut anything you can cut Welfare and Medicaid, where all the fraud is.

 

[citygator]

A flat tax of 10% by the federal government along with ending "deductions/tax loopholes" would make things completely fair.
If a flat tax of 10% was imposed on a person who made $1 million dollars and had no deductions/loopholes, that person would pay $100,000. If your income was $50,000, your tax would be $5,000. Totally fair. The person who made the million is paying more into the federal government that you are. It couldn't be "fairer" than that.

I get that, and I do like a flat tax with one caveat. Dont apply it to under a certain income level. If you flat tax the bottom 50% you barely add to the total tax revenue but add some extreme hardship onto people who just dont have any money.

Think about this. You raise the same amount of money in both these scenarios:

• Tax bottom 50% and top 50% with a flat 10%
• Tax bottom 50% nothing and top 50% with a flat 11% tax.

Both of those raise the same income.

Flat tax needs to be a bit higher than 10% though.

 

[citygator]

Income taxes are barely half of Federal revenues, so the top half is paying about 25%, not '98%' or the other absurd numbers. The 'top half' re also receiving most of the benefits of Social Security and Medicare, along with the largest chunks of tax breaks and deductions. along with most of the income. Claiming they're 'overtaxed' is stupid and of course hides the income brackets that are paying the highest rate. Since now the claim is $60K is 'middle class', which is barely above minimum wage adjusted for real inflation, then yes, the lower brackets are indeed over-taxed, while the upper brackets, like the top 5%, aren't paying squat relative to the 'middle class'.

Here is what the real income curve looks like:

The L-Curve 2.0: An Updated Graph of the US Income Distribution

The US Income distribution does not look like a "Bell Curve". It is an "L-Curve": a gradual ramp for 99% of the population forming "horizontal branch" and a steep spike at top reacing beyond stratosphere. The disparity is so great it is difficult to represent on single graph. To comprehend it...

lcurve.org

This is why the uber-wealthy just love pushing the 'income tax' off on wages, and why they pay 'economists' to peddle the last 12 'Fair Tax' scams off on the clueless.

Those are excellent points.

 

[citygator]

We boomers paid for our SS and Medicare.
If you want to cut anything you can cut Welfare and Medicaid, where all the fraud is.

Dude. If you order a steakdinner and dessert for $100 and all you give the waiter is $12 for dessert... you dont get to have the dessert. You still owe $88 for your steak dinner. That is how you lived your life. You ate a steak dinner, left if for me to pay, and want to claim your measly $12 was for your dessert. Screw that logic dude.

 

[kyzr]

Dude. If you order a steak dinner and dessert for $100 and all you give the waiter is $12 for dessert... you dont get to have the dessert. You still owe $88 for your steak dinner. That is how you lived your life. You ate a steak dinner, left if for me to pay, and want to claim your measly $12 was for your dessert. Screw that logic dude.

We paid in-full for our "steak dinner". If nothing is done SS still pays us about 80% of promised benefits.
The fact that demographic changes requires periodic changes/fixes to the system is not unusual.
You don't need to pay any more than it takes to keep SS for your retirement.
Its not only SS that needs fixing by 2033, Medicare needs to be fixed by 2034.

My recommendation is to cut Welfare and Medicaid.

Medicare and Social Security go-broke dates pushed up due to rising health care costs, new SSA law

The go-broke dates for Medicare and Social Security’s trust funds have moved up as rising health care costs and new legislation affecting Social Security benefits have contributed to closer projected depletion dates.

apnews.com

 

[DGS49]

We Boomers HAVE NOT funded our own retirements with our FICA taxes. We - statistically speaking - are far out-living the money that we and our employers put in. That's what is bankrupting the "trust fund."

SS should be means tested, and the cap on earnings subject to the FICA tax should be eliminated. Problem solved.

When I move through our coastal paradises (e.g., Miami) and view all of the multi-million dollar condo's that line the shore, I realize that most of the owners of these condo's are drawing SS retirement benefits. That is absurd. It is not "us getting our money back." It is an entitlement and should be treated as such. If you don't need it you shouldn't get it.

 

[citygator]

We paid in-full for our "steak dinner". If nothing is done SS still pays us about 80% of promised benefits.
The fact that demographic changes requires periodic changes/fixes to the system is not unusual.
You don't need to pay any more than it takes to keep SS for your retirement.
Its not only SS that needs fixing by 2033, Medicare needs to be fixed by 2034.

My recommendation is to cut Welfare and Medicaid.

Medicare and Social Security go-broke dates pushed up due to rising health care costs, new SSA law

The go-broke dates for Medicare and Social Security’s trust funds have moved up as rising health care costs and new legislation affecting Social Security benefits have contributed to closer projected depletion dates.

apnews.com

Your "steak dinner" is 13 carrier groups, multiple wars, roads, tax breaks for corporations, lower rates, and a whole bunch of shit you didnt pay for. Your dessert is the SS and Medicare you are trying to steal from me. You cant leave me $40T in debt and say you paid for anything.

 

[kyzr]

Your "steak dinner" is 13 carrier groups, multiple wars, roads, tax breaks for corporations, lower rates, and a whole bunch of shit you didnt pay for. Your dessert is the SS and Medicare you are trying to steal from me. You cant leave me $40T in debt and say you paid for anything.

SS is separate from the Federal Budget dumbass.
That $40T national debt is a separate issue from SS dumbass.
SS and Medicare need to be "fixed".
"WE" are workers who paid for SS and Medicare, your ***** is with congress who never balanced a budget and never cut spending, not us.

If you want to save money cut Welfare and Medicaid.

 

[Nostra]

You explain why we should tax Elon Musk and billionaires the same as the working poor.
Most of us know why, you apparently don't.

Because treating everyone the same is fair, stupid.

Explain how treating everyone the same isn’t fair. Try not to dodge again, Wimpy.

 

[Nostra]

You explain why we should tax Elon Musk and billionaires the same as the working poor.
Most of us know why, you apparently don't.

Musk wrote a tax check for a single year for $12 BILLION. let me know when your working poor guy ponies up that much to run the govt, Dipsqueeze.

 

[Nostra]

Words typed. If you are willing to give up your Boomer SS and Medicare then were are in business. Otherwise we need increased tax revenue Boomer.

Income taxes don’t fund SS, you blithering idiot.

 

[Delldude]

Words typed. If you are willing to give up your Boomer SS and Medicare then were are in business. Otherwise we need increased tax revenue Boomer.

I think drastically cutting the global welfare and fraud that is being exposed in those HC programs is the option. Funny two biggest bingos for HC fraud are in blue states.

Thanks for your $340,000 contribution that makes everyday a weekend for me and my fellow Boomers.

Lemme see, golf or stop by the casino?

 

[progressive hunter]

So how do you think the Government should be paid for by society?

If you want no tax you are saying what is wrong with life in Mad Max..

I said no income tax,,

do you even know how much of total revenue comes from income tax??

we went for 100 yrs without it and things were better than fine,, once it started we started having world wars worse than mad max,,

 

[kyzr]

Because treating everyone the same is fair, stupid.
Explain how treating everyone the same isn’t fair. Try not to dodge again, Wimpy.

If you can't understand why taxing the working poor less than billionaires is fair, I can't help you.
This isn't a dodge. Its about values.

 

[Nostra]

If you can't understand why taxing the working poor less than billionaires is fair, I can't help you.
This isn't a dodge. Its about values.

Nope, just can’t get how you think treating everyone the same isn’t fair.

I guess you really are that stupid.

And the poor would pay less than the rich.

 

[progressive hunter]

If you can't understand why taxing the working poor less than billionaires is fair, I can't help you.
This isn't a dodge. Its about values.

the poor will always pay less than millionaires,,

what you want is to punish people for being successful because you failed your life,,