Retiring the A-10

[Vrenn]

Actually, helicopters and aircraft like the A-10 are still useful even if we do not. So long as we have not given up air superiority most of the air to air fighters are going to be too busy seeking out each other to mess with the slower movers close to the ground.

During the Iraq war, the sky was full of F-15s, F-16s and F-18s yet their AF still had the time and opportunity to attack the low flying jammers.

 

[DudleySmith]

The US only ever goes to wars where it thinks it'll have an easy time. Look at Iran, the US has been itching to invade for decades, and still hasn't.

Iran is run by feckless cowards and studiously avoids open actions, just the occasional 'border incident'; it funds terrorists and proxies. We learned from Iraq that nation building like we did after WW II doesn't work with Islamic countries; they know if they kick off a war they will lose, and lose badly. Mussolini is not the last pompous dictator who will be hung from a lamp post by his own people.

 

[DudleySmith]

Yes, against 3rd world countries with second grade militarie

Iraq was not a '3rd World country', and its military was very modern. We essentially wiped out its offensive capabilities in literally hours, and on its own home ground, where it should have had an enormous advantage. They shut down Iran's invasion, while outnumbered by a huge amount.

 

[Flash]

The A-10 is great in a non peer conflict. Going up against a modern adversary with surface to air capabilites they wouldn't last very long.

 

[Zincwarrior]

It is a CAS aircraft. One as a general rule does not use guided missiles in CAS.

That argument makes about as much sense as claiming guns are irrelevant because we have artillery and missiles.

The guns can't kill tanks now. A10s drop a variety of guided missiles, laser and satellite guided bombs, and its targeting system for unguided bombs is quite impressive.

 

[Vrenn]

The guns can't kill tanks now. A10s drop a variety of guided missiles, laser and satellite guided bombs, and its targeting system for unguided bombs is quite impressive.

The AC-130 has the capability to us it's gun and kill a tank. No tank can survive being hit from the top by a 105mm Howitzer. The AC can be above the defenses for the Tank.

 

[Mushroom]

The guns can't kill tanks now.

Wait, what?

*shakes head and reads that again*

What, did they somehow magically stop working against tanks in the last 2 decades?

And anti-tank is not the only role of a CAS aircraft. You really do not know anything about the topic at all, do you?



That is a great example of what CAS actually is. Enemies in trees about 400 meters away, carefully targeted with 30mm cannon rounds without harming the friendlies nearby.



There is another, with snipers in the trees about 200 meters away.



Another sniper position neutralized by 30mm cannon.

What, do you get all of your knowledge of the military from video games?

 

[Vrenn]

Wait, what?

*shakes head and reads that again*

What, did they somehow magically stop working against tanks in the last 2 decades?

And anti-tank is not the only role of a CAS aircraft. You really do not know anything about the topic at all, do you?



That is a great example of what CAS actually is. Enemies in trees about 400 meters away, carefully targeted with 30mm cannon rounds without harming the friendlies nearby.



There is another, with snipers in the trees about 200 meters away.



Another sniper position neutralized by 30mm cannon.

What, do you get all of your knowledge of the military from video games?

And it takes one passing AC-130J to handle all of those in a matter of minutes and then they can move on to another support. If the A-10 can operate in that area then the AC-130 can also and the AC was purpose built for CAS way back in 1967. This is why they aren't buying any more A-10s but the AC is being purchased as quickly as possible. And then let's not forget the COIN Aircraft done by the AT-6E. There isn't a mission left for the A-10.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Yes, against 3rd world countries with second grade militaries. China and Russia won't be playing that game. And that is the reason we have such a massive military and spend the billions on it.


And we had better rely on the Naval Resources since the land based (not counting the long range bombers) are going to need to be involved in a chain of inflight refueling to get there and back.You can't rely on the F-22, hundreds of F-16s and the F-15 force.

The Russian air force has been shown to bew a paper tiger at best, poor maintenence and low flying hours for it's pilots result in bad performance. The PLAAF has the same problem "the PLAAF combat potential remained constrained by the notoriously poor training of Chinese pilots. Bomber pilots typically fly approximately 80 hours a year; fighter pilots 100-110 hours; and ground attack pilots 150 hours." US pilots fly over 240 hours a year.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Yes, against 3rd world countries with second grade militaries. China and Russia won't be playing that game. And that is the reason we have such a massive military and spend the billions on it.


And we had better rely on the Naval Resources since the land based (not counting the long range bombers) are going to need to be involved in a chain of inflight refueling to get there and back.You can't rely on the F-22, hundreds of F-16s and the F-15 force.

We have overseas bases all over the place so refueling wont be an issue.
And even if it was we do have the capability to refuel inflight and we've done it before.
But than the big bombers can make the flight there and back without refueling.
And where do you think these 3rd world countries get there missiles?
The Ukraine is wiping out Russia with American made weapons. So a 3rd world country with advanced American weapons is handling Russia with ease.
That kinda blows your whole 3rd world countries cant win BS out of the sky now doesnt it.

 

[Vrenn]

We have overseas bases all over the place so refueling wont be an issue.
And even if it was we do have the capability to refuel inflight and we've done it before.

Yes, but not at the level that would be required if we had to do serious battle with the Chinese. We don't have enough tankers to get our fighters AND bombers there, fight and back.

But than the big bombers can make the flight there and back without refueling.

You know nothing about bombers. I spent 8 years on the Tankers and Bombers for SAC. And not one bomber left the area without meeting up with a tanker. Getting a fully loaded bomber off the ground and up to speed takes a lot of gas. Bombers do not take off with a full fuel load. They have to top off before they leave to get there. And then, on the way back, they will meet another tanker to get home. The ONLY bomber that had that kind of range was the B-36. Funny, after more than 8 years, I never saw a single operational B-36 on a bomber base.

And where do you think these 3rd world countries get there missiles?

Ever hear about a fun in the sun vacation place called North Korea?

The Ukraine is wiping out Russia with American made weapons. So a 3rd world country with advanced American weapons is handling Russia with ease.

First of all, Ukraine isn't a 3rd world country. And it ain't easy for them to keep dying to keep Russia from taking over everything and murdering every single Ukrainian. The stakes are that high. Otherwise, it would be better for them to sue for peace. Russia made some serious mistakes early on and they tossed away most of their Air Power when they waited until Ukraine got the SA Missile systems. They underestimated to say the least.

That kinda blows your whole 3rd world countries cant win BS out of the sky now doesnt it.

China and Russia are far from 3rd world countries and have some serious militaries. Ukraine hasn't faced it yet. But you can bet that if the US were to be involved the full weight of the Russian and Chinese military would come to bear. They could not afford to underestimate the US and the US cannot afford to make that same mistake.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Yes, but not at the level that would be required if we had to do serious battle with the Chinese. We don't have enough tankers to get our fighters AND bombers there, fight and back.



You know nothing about bombers. I spent 8 years on the Tankers and Bombers for SAC. And not one bomber left the area without meeting up with a tanker. Getting a fully loaded bomber off the ground and up to speed takes a lot of gas. Bombers do not take off with a full fuel load. They have to top off before they leave to get there. And then, on the way back, they will meet another tanker to get home. The ONLY bomber that had that kind of range was the B-36. Funny, after more than 8 years, I never saw a single operational B-36 on a bomber base.




Ever hear about a fun in the sun vacation place called North Korea?




First of all, Ukraine isn't a 3rd world country. And it ain't easy for them to keep dying to keep Russia from taking over everything and murdering every single Ukrainian. The stakes are that high. Otherwise, it would be better for them to sue for peace. Russia made some serious mistakes early on and they tossed away most of their Air Power when they waited until Ukraine got the SA Missile systems. They underestimated to say the least.



China and Russia are far from 3rd world countries and have some serious militaries. Ukraine hasn't faced it yet. But you can bet that if the US were to be involved the full weight of the Russian and Chinese military would come to bear. They could not afford to underestimate the US and the US cannot afford to make that same mistake.

I sure would hate to rely on chinese equipment.
They're like the russians in that respect.
And yes we're capable of bombing runs without aerial refueling. And as I already said we have air bases all over the world.

 

[Vrenn]

I sure would hate to rely on chinese equipment.
They're like the russians in that respect.
And yes we're capable of bombing runs without aerial refueling. And as I already said we have air bases all over the world.

And daylight bombing of Berlin in the daytime doesn't need fighter escorts in 1943.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And daylight bombing of Berlin in the daytime doesn't need fighter escorts in 1943.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Mushroom]

The Ukraine is wiping out Russia with American made weapons.

Uh, actually not. In reality, the vast majority of missiles that Ukraine has been using are Soviet-Russian made. It is only in recent months that they have been using US made missiles, and so far only defensive ones. It was only last month also that they finally started to arm their bombers with UK made missiles.

I have absolutely no idea why in the heck people seem to believe that Ukraine is using "US missiles", as there is barely any US made equipment there at all. The vast majority is Soviet or Russian made stuff they had started the war with, or acquired from former Warsaw Pact nations that still had a lot of it on hand. One can not simply send a bunch of US made NATO equipment over and expect it to be simply bolted onto Warsaw Pact equipment and expect it to work.

 

[Mushroom]

WTF are you talking about?

He has absolutely no idea. I bet he does not have a clue as to why there were no fighters escorting the bombers in 1943. He just makes things up as he goes and spits them out, they make little to no sense to anybody but himself.

 

[Vrenn]

He has absolutely no idea. I bet he does not have a clue as to why there were no fighters escorting the bombers in 1943. He just makes things up as he goes and spits them out, they make little to no sense to anybody but himself.

You MAGAts sure do like to gum yer jaws and say exactly nothing.

 

[DudleySmith]

And daylight bombing of Berlin in the daytime doesn't need fighter escorts in 1943.

This is just beyond ignorant.

If anyone in the PEanut Gallery doesn't know why this is stupid, do a search on the ranges of fighter escorts by year. It will become very clear to you why they weren't along for the entire flight until late in the war.

 

[Mushroom]

You MAGAts sure do like to gum yer jaws and say exactly nothing.

Which only proves to show that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you only jabber on making up things you know nothing about, then attacking any that refuse to believe your nonsense.

Case in point, I have never hid how much I detested the former President in here. Yet amazingly, that seems to be the only comeback you can ever make when I call you on your coprolite.

So tell us, as you made the claim that escort fighters were not needed to escort daylight raids in 1943, why was that? You made the silly claim, validate it.

 

[Vrenn]

Which only proves to show that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you only jabber on making up things you know nothing about, then attacking any that refuse to believe your nonsense.

Case in point, I have never hid how much I detested the former President in here. Yet amazingly, that seems to be the only comeback you can ever make when I call you on your coprolite.

So tell us, as you made the claim that escort fighters were not needed to escort daylight raids in 1943, why was that? You made the silly claim, validate it.

I was being sarcastic and you jumped on it like it was true. BTW, I know why they tried to do it and it had to do with how they were forced to use the P-38 and make them fly with the Bombers. The loss rate was 11-1 because the P-38 didn't have the time to gain the power, speed or altitude it needed to fight. Of course, the P-38 was outnumbered 11-1 meaning, even with the conditions, the P-38 had a 1-1 kill rate. Buy 1944, the P-38 had an 11-1 kill rate the other direction. Of course, that includes all Theaters.

Now, Magat, ago back to your own world where the rest of us don't exist or you can sell us to your buddies for a bag of chips.