Retailers in Big Trouble: horrible cut in Spending on Black Friday

[Neubarth]

American consumers shopped more for bargains at the start of the U.S. holiday season and spent significantly less than a year ago, according to early data released on Sunday.

Consumers said they will have spent nearly 8 percent less on average, or about $343 per person, over the weekend that includes U.S. Thanksgiving Day, Black Friday and runs through Sunday, according to the National Retail Federation.

While traffic to stores and retail websites rose to 195 million people from 172 million in 2008, the early data this weekend represents a worrisome sign for retailers, who had braced for weak sales and sought ways to protect margins.

Data released by ShopperTrak on Saturday showed that sales rose a scant 0.5 percent on Black Friday, which is often the single busiest day of the holiday shopping season.

US Shoppers Spent Less Over Black Friday: NRF - Retail * US * News * Story - CNBC.com

 

[Neubarth]

THAT WAS A VERY BIG DROP! Not a good sign for the economic revival. Oh well, the Obama administration will come out with a whole barrage of false data and misleading comments to try to get the market to go up today. Obama needs to be forcefully removed. The sooner the better.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I had to get a prescription filled and without thinking it through, had it filled at Sams Club -- on Black Friday.

I had horrible thought about not being able to park in the lot, fight my way through the lines to even get to the pharmacy, then having to wait on lines for hours to fill the prescription and then pay for it

I went to Sams Club in Elmsford, NY on Black Friday at 4 pm -- park right near the entrance as there were many many spots open.

Average of only 2 customers at each of the registers! Like a Ghost Town!!

Took me all of 10 minutes from parking to exiting.

I can't imagine this was a good day for Sams Club

 

[uscitizen]

I went to Office Depot on Saturday evening and they still had plenty of black Friday specials left. Bought an extra Plantronics bluetooth thingy for $15.
Well that and the ink cartridge I origionally went in for.

 

[The Rabbi]

THAT WAS A VERY BIG DROP! Not a good sign for the economic revival. Oh well, the Obama administration will come out with a whole barrage of false data and misleading comments to try to get the market to go up today.

I think you are the one offering false data. In truth, people spent less but there were more people. Overall spending was UP marginally from last year. It was not a "very big drop."

 

[Neubarth]

that was a very big drop! Not a good sign for the economic revival. Oh well, the obama administration will come out with a whole barrage of false data and misleading comments to try to get the market to go up today.

i think you are the one offering false data. In truth, people spent less but there were more people. Overall spending was up marginally from last year. It was not a "very big drop."

Reality has escaped you. They have meds that can help you in your confused delusional state.

Remember, it is not my article, but one of another. Eight percent is substantial.WHEN I was a teenager out of high school. I did a lot of window shopping, but seldom bought because I did not have the coin. Guess what is the operative consideration here?

 

[The Rabbi]

that was a very big drop! Not a good sign for the economic revival. Oh well, the obama administration will come out with a whole barrage of false data and misleading comments to try to get the market to go up today.

i think you are the one offering false data. In truth, people spent less but there were more people. Overall spending was up marginally from last year. It was not a "very big drop."

Reality has escaped you. They have meds that can help you in your confused delusional state.

Remember, it is not my article, but one of another. Eight percent is substantial.WHEN I was a teenager out of high school. I did a lot of window shopping, but seldom bought because I did not have the coin. Guess what is the operative consideration here?

I think you failed math.
The absolute number of people shopping doesn't matter. The amount per person spent doesn't matter. The total amount spent is all that matters. And that number is positive from last year.
The number sucks. The number shows we're nowhere near recovery. The number suggests a lot of retailers will be shutting their doors come Jan. But it does not add up to what you claim.

 

[jillian]

i think you are the one offering false data. In truth, people spent less but there were more people. Overall spending was up marginally from last year. It was not a "very big drop."

Reality has escaped you. They have meds that can help you in your confused delusional state.

Remember, it is not my article, but one of another. Eight percent is substantial.WHEN I was a teenager out of high school. I did a lot of window shopping, but seldom bought because I did not have the coin. Guess what is the operative consideration here?

I think you failed math.
The absolute number of people shopping doesn't matter. The amount per person spent doesn't matter. The total amount spent is all that matters. And that number is positive from last year.
The number sucks. The number shows we're nowhere near recovery. The number suggests a lot of retailers will be shutting their doors come Jan. But it does not add up to what you claim.

actually, what the numbers show is that brick and mortar sales are same as last year... but internet shopping is up

according to bloomberg.com and thestreet.com, cyber sales were up 16% over last year at just 3 p.m. today.

Cyber Monday Sales Rise 16% in U.S., Coremetrics Says (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

Cyber Monday Sales: Holiday Bright Spot | Innovation Update | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com

 

[The Rabbi]

And that contradicts what I wrote, how?
Actually what I saw was that last year's sales were about $14B or something and this year's were 14.3. Distribution was a little different, is all. Still not the blow out year people had hoped for. And it bodes ill for January.

 

[Toro]

Rabbi is correct.

Sales did not drop. Sales rose, although not by much.

Sales per shopper is irrelevant.

 

[Neubarth]

Rabbi is correct.

Sales did not drop. Sales rose, although not by much.

Sales per shopper is irrelevant.

Rabbi and you both do not understand the costs and power of advertising, do you? You can lure a great many people out with fantastic teaser deals. That is exactly what they did. I do not need a plasma HD television, but I was giving consideration to going out to see if I could get one.

Coin is valuable for many things. Did the people spend more or less than they did last year? The answer is less, so the reality is that advertising can get people curious enough to go out to the store early to take advantage of Plasma TV's at outrageously low prices and other "get them in the store" bargains.

From a retailing standpoint, it was a horrific blow. The actual total dollar amount was way below what it was two years ago, and the individual shopper bought less this year than last. That bespeaks of horrible illness in the economy which I have seen alluded to on one of the recent posts. The average shopper has less coin, just like when I was a teenager. Less coin and you are less likely to buy. That is a simple reality and we are seeing it across the nation.

 

[Neubarth]

i think you are the one offering false data. In truth, people spent less but there were more people. Overall spending was up marginally from last year. It was not a "very big drop."

Reality has escaped you. They have meds that can help you in your confused delusional state.

Remember, it is not my article, but one of another. Eight percent is substantial.WHEN I was a teenager out of high school. I did a lot of window shopping, but seldom bought because I did not have the coin. Guess what is the operative consideration here?

I think you failed math.
The absolute number of people shopping doesn't matter. The amount per person spent doesn't matter. The total amount spent is all that matters. And that number is positive from last year.
The number sucks. The number shows we're nowhere near recovery. The number suggests a lot of retailers will be shutting their doors come Jan. But it does not add up to what you claim.

The money spent advertising to get the people to take their fannies out of their seats and go down to the shopping center was basically ineffective. Sales per shopper is a vital consideration in retail as there are indexes that show that shoppers will make so many trips on average before Christmas. We have seen them waste a lot of trips and they bought less on the trips. It all adds up even if you think the math is funny. One of these days, you will learn about retail and understand that the eight percent reduction per shopper is a BIG DEAL. Think about it. I know it is abstract thinking for you, but if you ponder it for a spell it will sink in.

 

[Neubarth]

NEXT WEEK RETAIL SALES FOR NOVEMBER COME OUT. Economic Calendar: Financial Calendars - Yahoo! Finance

Those numbers will more than likely NOT look very good.

 

[The Rabbi]

Reality has escaped you. They have meds that can help you in your confused delusional state.

Remember, it is not my article, but one of another. Eight percent is substantial.WHEN I was a teenager out of high school. I did a lot of window shopping, but seldom bought because I did not have the coin. Guess what is the operative consideration here?

I think you failed math.
The absolute number of people shopping doesn't matter. The amount per person spent doesn't matter. The total amount spent is all that matters. And that number is positive from last year.
The number sucks. The number shows we're nowhere near recovery. The number suggests a lot of retailers will be shutting their doors come Jan. But it does not add up to what you claim.

The money spent advertising to get the people to take their fannies out of their seats and go down to the shopping center was basically ineffective. Sales per shopper is a vital consideration in retail as there are indexes that show that shoppers will make so many trips on average before Christmas. We have seen them waste a lot of trips and they bought less on the trips. It all adds up even if you think the math is funny. One of these days, you will learn about retail and understand that the eight percent reduction per shopper is a BIG DEAL. Think about it. I know it is abstract thinking for you, but if you ponder it for a spell it will sink in.

OK, so first your claim was that people spent less, by about 8%, this year than last year. That was shown to be patently false.
Now your claim is that "advertising dollars" were somehow ineffective. I'd like to see how you measure that. It seems they were more effective because there were more, not fewer, shoppers.
In any case you have interjected an extraneous fact in your argument, which has been proven wrong to begin with.
Since I have been running a retail business for the last 3+ years you are in no position to lecture me about this. I'd suggest getting your head out of your tuchas and learning to read a news report.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Regardless of the current economic mess, retailers are for the most part obsolete. Online shopping combined with just-in-time manufacturering has changed the entire way the world shops.

Except for a relatively small number of items that consumers will still want to see first hand before buying, everything is going to be purchased online soon. Good online return policies may eliminate them altogether. Shopping is a pain in the ass.

I think that it's a good thing. Retailers take way to large of a slice of the pie. If they were eliminated, more money could go to the manufacturers and workers that produce the items.

The merchantile sub-society are scum anyway. We'd all be better off without them.

 

[manu1959]

yep the sky is falling and yet my retail clients keep sending me stores to design for them.....and they keep building them...

 

[Toro]

Online sales rise.

In a display of strength by the e-commerce sector, online shopping sites reported a surge in sales and traffic on Monday, bucking the mixed-bag results experienced by traditional retailers so far this holiday season.

By 6:30 p.m. Eastern time on so-called Cyber Monday, Web shoppers had spent, in total, 11% more than they did a year ago at that time, according to Coremetrics Inc., a Web analytics company that tracks shopper behavior on the sites of more than 500 U.S. brands.

But in a sign that shoppers were chasing steep discounts and spreading out purchases, the average size of each sales ticket had slipped nearly 14% from last year. ...

Online shopping built momentum over Thanksgiving weekend, a time when shoppers have typically gone to traditional stores to hunt for deals. ComScore reported that U.S. online shoppers spent $595 million on Black Friday, up 11% from last year. GSI Commerce Inc., which runs about 100 Web sites for brands including Aeropostale and GNC, said same-store sales on Thursday through Sunday increased 17% over the same period last year.

About 5% to 7% of U.S. shopping typically happens online, but this holiday season online may account for 10% of all holiday shopping, or about $44 billion, according to Forrester Research. The shift to online shopping, fueled by deal seekers in the recession, may be coming at the expense of sales at traditional stores later in the holiday season, Forrester says.

'Cyber Monday' Gets Boost From Online Discounts - WSJ.com

 

[Anikdote]

That's exciting news. I'm glad to folks are embracing the simplicity and ease of online shopping rather than fighting mall crowds.

 

[Paulie]

American consumers shopped more for bargains at the start of the U.S. holiday season and spent significantly less than a year ago, according to early data released on Sunday.

Consumers said they will have spent nearly 8 percent less on average, or about $343 per person, over the weekend that includes U.S. Thanksgiving Day, Black Friday and runs through Sunday, according to the National Retail Federation.

While traffic to stores and retail websites rose to 195 million people from 172 million in 2008, the early data this weekend represents a worrisome sign for retailers, who had braced for weak sales and sought ways to protect margins.

Data released by ShopperTrak on Saturday showed that sales rose a scant 0.5 percent on Black Friday, which is often the single busiest day of the holiday shopping season.

US Shoppers Spent Less Over Black Friday: NRF - Retail * US * News * Story - CNBC.com

With all due respect Neubarth, this is a pointless thread. It's well recognized that jobs haven't been added yet, so there's still very little money to be spending collectively.

At some point, the liquidity that the Fed has created will enter the economy, and companies will hire again. And then people will spend again.

Of course, this isn't something that I think is a very fruitful endeavor anyway, but eventually people will spend again.

I can't figure out if you're just a paranoid bear in general, or you're actually stuck short and want desperately to exit your positions and erase a lot of red on your broker account page.

 

[Neubarth]

American consumers shopped more for bargains at the start of the U.S. holiday season and spent significantly less than a year ago, according to early data released on Sunday.

Consumers said they will have spent nearly 8 percent less on average, or about $343 per person, over the weekend that includes U.S. Thanksgiving Day, Black Friday and runs through Sunday, according to the National Retail Federation.

While traffic to stores and retail websites rose to 195 million people from 172 million in 2008, the early data this weekend represents a worrisome sign for retailers, who had braced for weak sales and sought ways to protect margins.

Data released by ShopperTrak on Saturday showed that sales rose a scant 0.5 percent on Black Friday, which is often the single busiest day of the holiday shopping season.

US Shoppers Spent Less Over Black Friday: NRF - Retail * US * News * Story - CNBC.com

With all due respect Neubarth, this is a pointless thread. It's well recognized that jobs haven't been added yet, so there's still very little money to be spending collectively.

At some point, the liquidity that the Fed has created will enter the economy, and companies will hire again. And then people will spend again.

Of course, this isn't something that I think is a very fruitful endeavor anyway, but eventually people will spend again.

I can't figure out if you're just a paranoid bear in general, or you're actually stuck short and want desperately to exit your positions and erase a lot of red on your broker account page.

You are wrong on all counts. The thread serves to warn people that all of the thousands and thousands of lies that have come out of Washington in the past ten months have had no substance to them. Now, I have pointed out the lies as they have spewed forth. The Obama administration is the most horribly immoral in world history. I am an historian and know all about the criminal behavior of the Grant and Harding administrations. They pale in comparison to that of the stinking Obama administration. He is the most corrupt son of a slut in American history. Lies about unemployment. Lies about Unemployment insurance claims. Lies about earnings (All the companies have taken a cue from this corrupt administration.) Coercion with the Big Banks. Obama is letting them have their way with him and with the stock market. I have been long this market all but two weeks in time. I shorted for the fifth time since March today. I have been wrong twice on shorting and right twice. This time we will find out if I am more wrong than right. The corruption is so manifest that even today, if you listened to the commentary coming from Washington, you would most likely believe that American Auto Sales were soaring (or at least strongly positive). The reality is that they were down ten percent from November of last year. In November of last year they were down about 44 percent from the November of the previous year. So, sales are still falling, but by wording what they said, in such a way that they made people think everything was going up and up . They have done that with almost all economic news releases since March. Corrupt as hell. Durable goods orders have plunged and have not improved. Actual unemployment is over 22 percent based upon independent unemployment surveys. Did you notice the lies this morning? Can you tell me how the government was deceiving the people right out of the chute as the market opened? Let's see how intelligent you are. Tell me what those lying sacks of shit did.