Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

[flacaltenn]

Israel's views of tbe situation represent only one party's view of the situation on the ground. There is another party involved who's views are now marginalized. Each adds their own bias' to events. Of course you like Trump. He sees it from ONLY one view and endorses that view with prejudice.

And --- IS there a "Palestinian view" of the situation? I think not. Who are the anointed leaders that speak for ALL Palestinians? Including the 300,000 ex-pats or exiles?

The dumb western strategy has been to FORCE a "Palestinian unification" in a form of NATIONALISM that is completely alien to the Palestinians. They don't want it. They don't TRUST IT. And they have seen where Western IMPOSED nationalism has only led to corrupt, strong-man Arab governments - full of corruption, cronyism, and totalitarian measures.

The WEST brought nationalism to the Middle East. It's not natural. OVER 1/2 of Palestinians see the PA that way right now. As corrupt, inept and having too much power over the tribal, sectarian, familial lines of control that they prefer..

I think many of sympathizers, you might be included, have LEPT to the same dumb concept of a "unified" Palestinian democracy of some sort that probably should NEVER exist -- speaking on behalf of ALL of them.

So what would YOU suggest Trump do to line up a qualified partner for peace from the Pali side to negotiate with?

Actually I have not leapt to the view of a unified Palestinian democracy. I even STARTED a thread on a wholly different way of looking at it. I am trying to figure how that means there still can’t be Palestinian views or how only Israel’s view is correct? This lines up with the impression I get from Pro-Israel faction that Israel can do no wrong when comes to the Palestinians.

But you ASSUME their IS a "Palestinian position" to take !!! If that position is so well articulated and represented, the PA would STILL BE in business wouldn't they?

So you ARE starting with a flawed premise that Israel has all the "partners in peace" lined up at a table -- and that's FAR from the truth. WHO are they supposed to negotiate with -- YOU?

Where ARE the "Palestinians"? 1/2 of them aren't even enjoying the relative prosperity in Israel, but living in dingy camps under guard of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan. Do you represent THOSE Palestinians as well? Or only the ones that "tortured and tormented" in Israel?

What the hell are you talking about? All Palestinians. That is what I am referring to. And I have not said anything about torturing or tormenting so do not put words in my mouth. I have also consistently said that Israel lacks a negotiating partner that speaks for all Palestinians so would you stop putting words in my mouth?

In the meantime what is Trumps strategy here because all I am seeing is pissy vengeful behavior because the Palestinians arent properly humble and adoring after he gave on Jerusalem whole and undivided to Israel.

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

I found the treaties that were signed between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan to finally end hostilities of 30 years since 1948.. It's REALLY instructive, and some of that made it into the article I'm writing to SUPPORT the concept of a "Neighborhood design solution" to the Pali issue. It's all there in BOTH of those agreements how "solving the Pali problem" required ALL the neighbors to focus and contribute.

From the article.

This is not a typical post-war armistice negotiation. The Palestinians did not position armies on every border of Israel in 1968 and coordinate the attacks. That armistice between Egypt, Jordan and Israel was settled long ago. In the pact with Egypt that ended 30 years of hostilities, signed in 1978 and brokered by the US, the undeniable and necessary actuality of a neighborhood solution for the displacement of Palestinians was fully and very thoroughly articulated.

A. West Bank and Gaza --- 1. Egypt, Israel, Jordan and the representatives of the Palestinian people should participate in negotiations on the resolution of the Palestinian problem in all its aspects. To achieve that objective, negotiations relating to the West Bank and Gaza should proceed in three stages:

The agreement went on to state that “Egypt, Israel, and Jordan will agree on the modalities for establishing the elected self-governing authority in the West Bank and Gaza.” The matching peace pact with Jordan, signed in 1998, formulates: “ In the case of displaced persons, [would be addressed] in a quadripartite committee together with Egypt and the Palestinians”. Refugees external to the occupied lands were to be addressed largely through International working groups.

NOTHING NEW.. It's ALWAYS been recognized that Israel ALONE doesn't carry the burden of making every last Palestinian happy.. It's ALWAYS required a neighborhood solution. But all the summits and meetings and leaderships could NOT make that happen..

It would tear dear Coyote up if Trump and/or his son-in-law could make that happen..

Way off topic --- so I'm out. The issue of aid is of little interest to me. The issue of MAKING DEALS that get butts off of thrones and chairs to fix things does..

 

[rylah]

And --- IS there a "Palestinian view" of the situation? I think not. Who are the anointed leaders that speak for ALL Palestinians? Including the 300,000 ex-pats or exiles?

The dumb western strategy has been to FORCE a "Palestinian unification" in a form of NATIONALISM that is completely alien to the Palestinians. They don't want it. They don't TRUST IT. And they have seen where Western IMPOSED nationalism has only led to corrupt, strong-man Arab governments - full of corruption, cronyism, and totalitarian measures.

The WEST brought nationalism to the Middle East. It's not natural. OVER 1/2 of Palestinians see the PA that way right now. As corrupt, inept and having too much power over the tribal, sectarian, familial lines of control that they prefer..

I think many of sympathizers, you might be included, have LEPT to the same dumb concept of a "unified" Palestinian democracy of some sort that probably should NEVER exist -- speaking on behalf of ALL of them.

So what would YOU suggest Trump do to line up a qualified partner for peace from the Pali side to negotiate with?

Actually I have not leapt to the view of a unified Palestinian democracy. I even STARTED a thread on a wholly different way of looking at it. I am trying to figure how that means there still can’t be Palestinian views or how only Israel’s view is correct? This lines up with the impression I get from Pro-Israel faction that Israel can do no wrong when comes to the Palestinians.

But you ASSUME their IS a "Palestinian position" to take !!! If that position is so well articulated and represented, the PA would STILL BE in business wouldn't they?

So you ARE starting with a flawed premise that Israel has all the "partners in peace" lined up at a table -- and that's FAR from the truth. WHO are they supposed to negotiate with -- YOU?

Where ARE the "Palestinians"? 1/2 of them aren't even enjoying the relative prosperity in Israel, but living in dingy camps under guard of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan. Do you represent THOSE Palestinians as well? Or only the ones that "tortured and tormented" in Israel?

What the hell are you talking about? All Palestinians. That is what I am referring to. And I have not said anything about torturing or tormenting so do not put words in my mouth. I have also consistently said that Israel lacks a negotiating partner that speaks for all Palestinians so would you stop putting words in my mouth?

In the meantime what is Trumps strategy here because all I am seeing is pissy vengeful behavior because the Palestinians arent properly humble and adoring after he gave on Jerusalem whole and undivided to Israel.

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

I found the treaties that were signed between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan to finally end hostilities of 30 years since 1948.. It's REALLY instructive, and some of that made it into the article I'm writing to SUPPORT the concept of a "Neighborhood design solution" to the Pali issue. It's all there in BOTH of those agreements how "solving the Pali problem" required ALL the neighbors to focus and contribute.

From the article.

This is not a typical post-war armistice negotiation. The Palestinians did not position armies on every border of Israel in 1968 and coordinate the attacks. That armistice between Egypt, Jordan and Israel was settled long ago. In the pact with Egypt that ended 30 years of hostilities, signed in 1978 and brokered by the US, the undeniable and necessary actuality of a neighborhood solution for the displacement of Palestinians was fully and very thoroughly articulated.

A. West Bank and Gaza --- 1. Egypt, Israel, Jordan and the representatives of the Palestinian people should participate in negotiations on the resolution of the Palestinian problem in all its aspects. To achieve that objective, negotiations relating to the West Bank and Gaza should proceed in three stages:

The agreement went on to state that “Egypt, Israel, and Jordan will agree on the modalities for establishing the elected self-governing authority in the West Bank and Gaza.” The matching peace pact with Jordan, signed in 1998, formulates: “ In the case of displaced persons, [would be addressed] in a quadripartite committee together with Egypt and the Palestinians”. Refugees external to the occupied lands were to be addressed largely through International working groups.

NOTHING NEW.. It's ALWAYS been recognized that Israel ALONE doesn't carry the burden of making every last Palestinian happy.. It's ALWAYS required a neighborhood solution. But all the summits and meetings and leaderships could NOT make that happen..

It would tear dear Coyote up if Trump and/or his son-in-law could make that happen..

Way off topic --- so I'm out. The issue of aid is of little interest to me. The issue of MAKING DEALS that get butts off of thrones and chairs to fix things does..

I like the way You challenge the current stiffed lexicon that has preoccupied the public discourse for the last 2-3 decades. Enjoyed that post very much.

Breath of fresh air
Thanks You!

 

[Mindful]

The Branch takes you into the everyday lives of Jewish and Arab Israelis forging meaningful relationships — at work, in the theater, at school, at Hadassah’s hospitals, even at an ice cream shop. Presented by Hadassah and hosted by veteran journalist Dina Kraft, The Branch provides inspiration by lifting up positive stories of people offering branches of peace.

 

[rylah]

The Branch takes you into the everyday lives of Jewish and Arab Israelis forging meaningful relationships — at work, in the theater, at school, at Hadassah’s hospitals, even at an ice cream shop. Presented by Hadassah and hosted by veteran journalist Dina Kraft, The Branch provides inspiration by lifting up positive stories of people offering branches of peace.

Very interesting timing, I was considering publicizing the unique friendship story between my family and the Aboulafias.
Thank You, I didn't know about this portal.

 

[member]

They are not being genocided, Hamas is not going around the world killing Jews. It is a conflict and Hamas deliberately targets civilians but that isnt genocide.

They do use language that calls it to mind. "Rip the hearts out of Jews".

When was the last time they said that? And who said it?

Leader of the government of Hamas. A few weeks ago.

And Hamas is widely recognized as a terrorist organization. What does the governing body of WB say?

What genocide are the Palestinians committing?

My original point in all this was that the blockade serves to protect Israel and her citizens from the government of Gaza which is a terrorist organization voicing genocidal tendencies towards Jews. While flacalten was pointing out that it doesn't solve anything in the long run, it does serve a vital purpose with respect to the safety of the Jewish people.

As you have pointed out several times on this thread, Gaza and the WB are very different, yes, should be handled differently.

That said, Abbas and his advisers have made comments, particularly concerning the Temple Mount, which are heinous, comparing Israel to the Inquisition and the Nazis.

"...Hamas is not going around the world killing Jews..."




anyway....

"My original point in all this was that the blockade serves to protect Israel and her citizens from the government of Gaza which is a terrorist organization voicing genocidal tendencies towards Jews. While flacalten was pointing out that it doesn't solve anything in the long run, it does serve a vital purpose with respect to the safety of the Jewish people."

I understand your country's concern about-terrorists and their "tendencies" towards the people there [jewish] and even not jewish....."there" or not.

"Hamas official Fathi Hammad said that the terror group is s ready to export Qassam rockets to Arab armies in order "to fight the Zionist entity." hammad said: etc...."


hammad said.....we know what you like to say.... man...it sure is diabolical and stupid....you go ahead and place that order for QR's..........nothing good will come of it - doesn't help in getting your state for the theatre group people and festival goers....







... even street people know: terrorists, hamas officials, mr. hammad....and the rest....




evil... hammad -- a scuzzface terrorist. i'm supposed to take him seriously with the title of "official " placed before "terrorist group"?

too bad for the [palestinian] theatre group people and festival goers.....guess the dream of a state has to be squashed and put on hold [again]. too bad for the whole place....gaza, WB, .... what do the "non-terrorist" palestinians say about this ? pf flickmore - have any youtube "protest clips" of people [your friends...the palestinians] protesting their Gov't and their terroristic ways? don't they want a state or are they stupid too....shouldn't this hammad be picked up & arrested at this point ?

LoL.....


good luck (to all) !

 

[Coyote]

Actually I have not leapt to the view of a unified Palestinian democracy. I even STARTED a thread on a wholly different way of looking at it. I am trying to figure how that means there still can’t be Palestinian views or how only Israel’s view is correct? This lines up with the impression I get from Pro-Israel faction that Israel can do no wrong when comes to the Palestinians.

But you ASSUME their IS a "Palestinian position" to take !!! If that position is so well articulated and represented, the PA would STILL BE in business wouldn't they?

So you ARE starting with a flawed premise that Israel has all the "partners in peace" lined up at a table -- and that's FAR from the truth. WHO are they supposed to negotiate with -- YOU?

Where ARE the "Palestinians"? 1/2 of them aren't even enjoying the relative prosperity in Israel, but living in dingy camps under guard of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan. Do you represent THOSE Palestinians as well? Or only the ones that "tortured and tormented" in Israel?

What the hell are you talking about? All Palestinians. That is what I am referring to. And I have not said anything about torturing or tormenting so do not put words in my mouth. I have also consistently said that Israel lacks a negotiating partner that speaks for all Palestinians so would you stop putting words in my mouth?

In the meantime what is Trumps strategy here because all I am seeing is pissy vengeful behavior because the Palestinians arent properly humble and adoring after he gave on Jerusalem whole and undivided to Israel.

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

What is the Trump Administration doing towards that strategy and where is it articulated?

Trump has insulted and distanced from many key allies in his America First ideology - he thinks America can do it better alone. Why would you expect THIS endeavor to be any different? China is increasing it's global powerhouse, NK is laughing at us as Trump proclaims they are no longer a nuclear menace, and Russia? Is being Russia. Another unfettered wannabe power broker. Why do you expect a different plan here?

P.S. I don't disagree with the strategy for pulling Arab states and Israel in a regional agreement - there is no other effective long turm solution. But I'm not seeing that.

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

 

[Indeependent]

But you ASSUME their IS a "Palestinian position" to take !!! If that position is so well articulated and represented, the PA would STILL BE in business wouldn't they?

So you ARE starting with a flawed premise that Israel has all the "partners in peace" lined up at a table -- and that's FAR from the truth. WHO are they supposed to negotiate with -- YOU?

Where ARE the "Palestinians"? 1/2 of them aren't even enjoying the relative prosperity in Israel, but living in dingy camps under guard of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan. Do you represent THOSE Palestinians as well? Or only the ones that "tortured and tormented" in Israel?

What the hell are you talking about? All Palestinians. That is what I am referring to. And I have not said anything about torturing or tormenting so do not put words in my mouth. I have also consistently said that Israel lacks a negotiating partner that speaks for all Palestinians so would you stop putting words in my mouth?

In the meantime what is Trumps strategy here because all I am seeing is pissy vengeful behavior because the Palestinians arent properly humble and adoring after he gave on Jerusalem whole and undivided to Israel.

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

What is the Trump Administration doing towards that strategy and where is it articulated?

Trump has insulted and distanced from many key allies in his America First ideology - he thinks America can do it better alone. Why would you expect THIS endeavor to be any different? China is increasing it's global powerhouse, NK is laughing at us as Trump proclaims they are no longer a nuclear menace, and Russia? Is being Russia. Another unfettered wannabe power broker. Why do you expect a different plan here?

P.S. I don't disagree with the strategy for pulling Arab states and Israel in a regional agreement - there is no other effective long turm solution. But I'm not seeing that.

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

 

[Coyote]

And Hamas is widely recognized as a terrorist organization. What does the governing body of WB say?

What genocide are the Palestinians committing?

My original point in all this was that the blockade serves to protect Israel and her citizens from the government of Gaza which is a terrorist organization voicing genocidal tendencies towards Jews. While flacalten was pointing out that it doesn't solve anything in the long run, it does serve a vital purpose with respect to the safety of the Jewish people.

As you have pointed out several times on this thread, Gaza and the WB are very different, yes, should be handled differently.

Thank you.

That said, Abbas and his advisers have made comments, particularly concerning the Temple Mount, which are heinous, comparing Israel to the Inquisition and the Nazis.

Pretty heinious comments have been made all around. Netanyahu's comparison of the Palestinians to Nazi's. Ayelet Shaked, referring to Palestinian children as snakes and that the mother's, neighbors and families of terrorists should be exterminated (a genocidal tendancy). You have Avignor Lieberman calling for the beheading of "disloyal" Israeli Arabs. Increasingly intolerant rhetoric abounds on both sides and eventually, both sides will be so backed into their respective positions it will erupt. There is NO ONE to tone it down, no one to moderate either side anymore - the US has abandoned that role. Given what is going on throughout the ME - from the abandonment of the Iran deal, the increasingly confrontational rhetoric, multiple failing states (Libya, Iraq, Yeman) and civil wars (Syria) - this kind of rhetoric is not good from either side.

You do not seem to know the Nazi history of the Palestinians.
When the Muslims call the Israelis Nazis, they are not telling the truth.
When Israel calls the Palestinians Nazis, although there aren't that many who might do that, that comes not only from the Arab Palestinians history with Nazi Germany, but many of their actions and words which continue to be like those of the Nazis.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

Amin Al Husseini: Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood

Many of the Jews in the actions that led to the founding of Israel were terrorists. Does that make it accurate to call Israel a terrorist regime or to call Israeli Jews terrorists today? No.

Comparing the Palestinians today to Nazi's is the same and serves no useful purporses. You want to have your cake and eat it to - you can call the Palestinians Nazi's but don't you dare call the Israeli's similar serious insults.

Being called a terrorist, while defending themselves from barbarian Arabs, and uncaring English, is not the same as people from a religion, taught to hate you, and intent in never wanting you to have your own country on your own ancient homeland ARE two totally different issues.

You do not realize that the Arabs from 1920 on have been wanting to not only destroy Israel but kill, or subjugate all the Jews, just as they had them before......as second class citizens known as Dhimmis.

Your knowledge of history continues to be thin.

The Palestinians today are not Nazis.
They are a totally different group of terrorists, like the Nazis, who want to have power over land which does not belong to them, and over the indigenous people on those lands.

The ones who started with the Nazi comparison were the Arab Palestinians.

They will use any comparison against the Jews and Israel which will help make them look like the victims they are truly not.

Bullshit. Bombing open market places and civilian bus's is terrorism plain and simple. You're trying to make distinctions that aren't there. Which is why I say Israel can do no wrong - you just find a way to justify it and white wash the less savory elements of your own history.

As far as the Nazi comparison from Netanyahu? It was highly inappropriate, and even many Jews were angered over it. But you will support it and justify it won't you?

 

[Coyote]

What the hell are you talking about? All Palestinians. That is what I am referring to. And I have not said anything about torturing or tormenting so do not put words in my mouth. I have also consistently said that Israel lacks a negotiating partner that speaks for all Palestinians so would you stop putting words in my mouth?

In the meantime what is Trumps strategy here because all I am seeing is pissy vengeful behavior because the Palestinians arent properly humble and adoring after he gave on Jerusalem whole and undivided to Israel.

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

What is the Trump Administration doing towards that strategy and where is it articulated?

Trump has insulted and distanced from many key allies in his America First ideology - he thinks America can do it better alone. Why would you expect THIS endeavor to be any different? China is increasing it's global powerhouse, NK is laughing at us as Trump proclaims they are no longer a nuclear menace, and Russia? Is being Russia. Another unfettered wannabe power broker. Why do you expect a different plan here?

P.S. I don't disagree with the strategy for pulling Arab states and Israel in a regional agreement - there is no other effective long turm solution. But I'm not seeing that.

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

 

[Indeependent]

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

What is the Trump Administration doing towards that strategy and where is it articulated?

Trump has insulted and distanced from many key allies in his America First ideology - he thinks America can do it better alone. Why would you expect THIS endeavor to be any different? China is increasing it's global powerhouse, NK is laughing at us as Trump proclaims they are no longer a nuclear menace, and Russia? Is being Russia. Another unfettered wannabe power broker. Why do you expect a different plan here?

P.S. I don't disagree with the strategy for pulling Arab states and Israel in a regional agreement - there is no other effective long turm solution. But I'm not seeing that.

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

There cannot be a coherent policy in an area of the world where 21 nations are at war.
Due to lack of media coverage most people are unaware that Muslims are slaughtering each other.

 

[Coyote]

What is the Trump Administration doing towards that strategy and where is it articulated?

Trump has insulted and distanced from many key allies in his America First ideology - he thinks America can do it better alone. Why would you expect THIS endeavor to be any different? China is increasing it's global powerhouse, NK is laughing at us as Trump proclaims they are no longer a nuclear menace, and Russia? Is being Russia. Another unfettered wannabe power broker. Why do you expect a different plan here?

P.S. I don't disagree with the strategy for pulling Arab states and Israel in a regional agreement - there is no other effective long turm solution. But I'm not seeing that.

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

There cannot be a coherent policy in an area of the world where 21 nations are at war.
Due to lack of media coverage most people are unaware that Muslims are slaughtering each other.

There certainly can be. It's foolish to take actions with out some sort of long term strategy. I get that you hate Muslims.

 

[Indeependent]

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

There cannot be a coherent policy in an area of the world where 21 nations are at war.
Due to lack of media coverage most people are unaware that Muslims are slaughtering each other.

There certainly can be. It's foolish to take actions with out some sort of long term strategy. I get that you hate Muslims.

Only the 1/3 who support Jihad.
Most of the Muslims my son is friends with love America and are pretty nice people.
I can’t control the fact that they murder each other.

 

[flacaltenn]

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

What is the Trump Administration doing towards that strategy and where is it articulated?

Trump has insulted and distanced from many key allies in his America First ideology - he thinks America can do it better alone. Why would you expect THIS endeavor to be any different? China is increasing it's global powerhouse, NK is laughing at us as Trump proclaims they are no longer a nuclear menace, and Russia? Is being Russia. Another unfettered wannabe power broker. Why do you expect a different plan here?

P.S. I don't disagree with the strategy for pulling Arab states and Israel in a regional agreement - there is no other effective long turm solution. But I'm not seeing that.

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

Not gonna find it with regards to US Middle East policy. Not in our lifetimes. EVER...

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

There cannot be a

There certainly can be. It's foolish to take actions with out some sort of long term strategy. I get that you hate Muslims.

My original point in all this was that the blockade serves to protect Israel and her citizens from the government of Gaza which is a terrorist organization voicing genocidal tendencies towards Jews. While flacalten was pointing out that it doesn't solve anything in the long run, it does serve a vital purpose with respect to the safety of the Jewish people.

As you have pointed out several times on this thread, Gaza and the WB are very different, yes, should be handled differently.

Thank you.

That said, Abbas and his advisers have made comments, particularly concerning the Temple Mount, which are heinous, comparing Israel to the Inquisition and the Nazis.

Pretty heinious comments have been made all around. Netanyahu's comparison of the Palestinians to Nazi's. Ayelet Shaked, referring to Palestinian children as snakes and that the mother's, neighbors and families of terrorists should be exterminated (a genocidal tendancy). You have Avignor Lieberman calling for the beheading of "disloyal" Israeli Arabs. Increasingly intolerant rhetoric abounds on both sides and eventually, both sides will be so backed into their respective positions it will erupt. There is NO ONE to tone it down, no one to moderate either side anymore - the US has abandoned that role. Given what is going on throughout the ME - from the abandonment of the Iran deal, the increasingly confrontational rhetoric, multiple failing states (Libya, Iraq, Yeman) and civil wars (Syria) - this kind of rhetoric is not good from either side.

You do not seem to know the Nazi history of the Palestinians.
When the Muslims call the Israelis Nazis, they are not telling the truth.
When Israel calls the Palestinians Nazis, although there aren't that many who might do that, that comes not only from the Arab Palestinians history with Nazi Germany, but many of their actions and words which continue to be like those of the Nazis.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

Amin Al Husseini: Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood

Many of the Jews in the actions that led to the founding of Israel were terrorists. Does that make it accurate to call Israel a terrorist regime or to call Israeli Jews terrorists today? No.

Comparing the Palestinians today to Nazi's is the same and serves no useful purporses. You want to have your cake and eat it to - you can call the Palestinians Nazi's but don't you dare call the Israeli's similar serious insults.

Being called a terrorist, while defending themselves from barbarian Arabs, and uncaring English, is not the same as people from a religion, taught to hate you, and intent in never wanting you to have your own country on your own ancient homeland ARE two totally different issues.

You do not realize that the Arabs from 1920 on have been wanting to not only destroy Israel but kill, or subjugate all the Jews, just as they had them before......as second class citizens known as Dhimmis.

Your knowledge of history continues to be thin.

The Palestinians today are not Nazis.
They are a totally different group of terrorists, like the Nazis, who want to have power over land which does not belong to them, and over the indigenous people on those lands.

The ones who started with the Nazi comparison were the Arab Palestinians.

They will use any comparison against the Jews and Israel which will help make them look like the victims they are truly not.

Bullshit. Bombing open market places and civilian bus's is terrorism plain and simple. You're trying to make distinctions that aren't there. Which is why I say Israel can do no wrong - you just find a way to justify it and white wash the less savory elements of your own history.

As far as the Nazi comparison from Netanyahu? It was highly inappropriate, and even many Jews were angered over it. But you will support it and justify it won't you?

Yes, 1600 Jews were angered by it. The 16 million who know real history, however, weren't.

Al Husseini collaborated directly with the Nazis, and his nephew just happens to be a fellow who changed his name to Arafat.

I realize that you know extremely little and all you do is repeat all the talking points and language you find at Islamist sites, but are you actually trying to deny that?

 

[Coyote]

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

There cannot be a

There certainly can be. It's foolish to take actions with out some sort of long term strategy. I get that you hate Muslims.

Thank you.

Pretty heinious comments have been made all around. Netanyahu's comparison of the Palestinians to Nazi's. Ayelet Shaked, referring to Palestinian children as snakes and that the mother's, neighbors and families of terrorists should be exterminated (a genocidal tendancy). You have Avignor Lieberman calling for the beheading of "disloyal" Israeli Arabs. Increasingly intolerant rhetoric abounds on both sides and eventually, both sides will be so backed into their respective positions it will erupt. There is NO ONE to tone it down, no one to moderate either side anymore - the US has abandoned that role. Given what is going on throughout the ME - from the abandonment of the Iran deal, the increasingly confrontational rhetoric, multiple failing states (Libya, Iraq, Yeman) and civil wars (Syria) - this kind of rhetoric is not good from either side.

You do not seem to know the Nazi history of the Palestinians.
When the Muslims call the Israelis Nazis, they are not telling the truth.
When Israel calls the Palestinians Nazis, although there aren't that many who might do that, that comes not only from the Arab Palestinians history with Nazi Germany, but many of their actions and words which continue to be like those of the Nazis.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

Amin Al Husseini: Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood

Many of the Jews in the actions that led to the founding of Israel were terrorists. Does that make it accurate to call Israel a terrorist regime or to call Israeli Jews terrorists today? No.

Comparing the Palestinians today to Nazi's is the same and serves no useful purporses. You want to have your cake and eat it to - you can call the Palestinians Nazi's but don't you dare call the Israeli's similar serious insults.

Being called a terrorist, while defending themselves from barbarian Arabs, and uncaring English, is not the same as people from a religion, taught to hate you, and intent in never wanting you to have your own country on your own ancient homeland ARE two totally different issues.

You do not realize that the Arabs from 1920 on have been wanting to not only destroy Israel but kill, or subjugate all the Jews, just as they had them before......as second class citizens known as Dhimmis.

Your knowledge of history continues to be thin.

The Palestinians today are not Nazis.
They are a totally different group of terrorists, like the Nazis, who want to have power over land which does not belong to them, and over the indigenous people on those lands.

The ones who started with the Nazi comparison were the Arab Palestinians.

They will use any comparison against the Jews and Israel which will help make them look like the victims they are truly not.

Bullshit. Bombing open market places and civilian bus's is terrorism plain and simple. You're trying to make distinctions that aren't there. Which is why I say Israel can do no wrong - you just find a way to justify it and white wash the less savory elements of your own history.

As far as the Nazi comparison from Netanyahu? It was highly inappropriate, and even many Jews were angered over it. But you will support it and justify it won't you?

Yes, 1600 Jews were angered by it. The 16 million who know real history, however, weren't.

Al Husseini collaborated directly with the Nazis, and his nephew just happens to be a fellow who changed his name to Arafat.

I realize that you know extremely little and all you do is repeat all the talking points and language you find at Islamist sites, but are you actually trying to deny that?

Link to that 16 million? Or did you pull it out of your ass? Many were angered, particularly at the misuse of the Holocaust for political purposes. That is what it is. A lot of people collaborated with the Nazi's to serve their own nationalist goals. To equate the Palestinians with Hitler's actions is false moral equivalency (maybe your "Standford" education missed that bit). The Palestinians did not kill 2/3 of Europe's Jews.

 

[Indeependent]

Link to the last time you found a strategy you approved of that didn’t include another country taking US dollars and not giving anything in return.

Link to a coherent foreign policy strategy here.

There cannot be a

There certainly can be. It's foolish to take actions with out some sort of long term strategy. I get that you hate Muslims.

You do not seem to know the Nazi history of the Palestinians.
When the Muslims call the Israelis Nazis, they are not telling the truth.
When Israel calls the Palestinians Nazis, although there aren't that many who might do that, that comes not only from the Arab Palestinians history with Nazi Germany, but many of their actions and words which continue to be like those of the Nazis.

Amin Al Husseini: Nazi Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

Amin Al Husseini: Father of Jihad, Al Qaeda, Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood

Many of the Jews in the actions that led to the founding of Israel were terrorists. Does that make it accurate to call Israel a terrorist regime or to call Israeli Jews terrorists today? No.

Comparing the Palestinians today to Nazi's is the same and serves no useful purporses. You want to have your cake and eat it to - you can call the Palestinians Nazi's but don't you dare call the Israeli's similar serious insults.

Being called a terrorist, while defending themselves from barbarian Arabs, and uncaring English, is not the same as people from a religion, taught to hate you, and intent in never wanting you to have your own country on your own ancient homeland ARE two totally different issues.

You do not realize that the Arabs from 1920 on have been wanting to not only destroy Israel but kill, or subjugate all the Jews, just as they had them before......as second class citizens known as Dhimmis.

Your knowledge of history continues to be thin.

The Palestinians today are not Nazis.
They are a totally different group of terrorists, like the Nazis, who want to have power over land which does not belong to them, and over the indigenous people on those lands.

The ones who started with the Nazi comparison were the Arab Palestinians.

They will use any comparison against the Jews and Israel which will help make them look like the victims they are truly not.

Bullshit. Bombing open market places and civilian bus's is terrorism plain and simple. You're trying to make distinctions that aren't there. Which is why I say Israel can do no wrong - you just find a way to justify it and white wash the less savory elements of your own history.

As far as the Nazi comparison from Netanyahu? It was highly inappropriate, and even many Jews were angered over it. But you will support it and justify it won't you?

Yes, 1600 Jews were angered by it. The 16 million who know real history, however, weren't.

Al Husseini collaborated directly with the Nazis, and his nephew just happens to be a fellow who changed his name to Arafat.

I realize that you know extremely little and all you do is repeat all the talking points and language you find at Islamist sites, but are you actually trying to deny that?

Link to that 16 million? Or did you pull it out of your ass? Many were angered, particularly at the misuse of the Holocaust for political purposes. That is what it is. A lot of people collaborated with the Nazi's to serve their own nationalist goals. To equate the Palestinians with Hitler's actions is false moral equivalency (maybe your "Standford" education missed that bit). The Palestinians did not kill 2/3 of Europe's Jews.

When’s the last time you lost sleep over Egypt barricading Gaza?
When’s the last time you lost sleep over Syria taking over Lebanon and displacing millions of Lebanese?
When’s the last time you lost sleep over Jordan asking Israel to keep Palis out of Jordan?
Are you even aware that these are just a few of the problems plaguing the Arab world?

And I’d like to know why you clicked a Smiley concerning the Rothschilds purchasing tons of land from Arabs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

But you ASSUME their IS a "Palestinian position" to take !!! If that position is so well articulated and represented, the PA would STILL BE in business wouldn't they?

So you ARE starting with a flawed premise that Israel has all the "partners in peace" lined up at a table -- and that's FAR from the truth. WHO are they supposed to negotiate with -- YOU?

Where ARE the "Palestinians"? 1/2 of them aren't even enjoying the relative prosperity in Israel, but living in dingy camps under guard of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan. Do you represent THOSE Palestinians as well? Or only the ones that "tortured and tormented" in Israel?

What the hell are you talking about? All Palestinians. That is what I am referring to. And I have not said anything about torturing or tormenting so do not put words in my mouth. I have also consistently said that Israel lacks a negotiating partner that speaks for all Palestinians so would you stop putting words in my mouth?

In the meantime what is Trumps strategy here because all I am seeing is pissy vengeful behavior because the Palestinians arent properly humble and adoring after he gave on Jerusalem whole and undivided to Israel.

The strategy is to pull Arab states into the picture for a regional agreement.
For that each player has to be given proportionate position, according to their real weight and potential for normalization, making the Palis last on the list for having nothing to offer, but patent disruption of any notion to normalization.

Or did You think it was all done without cooperation?

What is the Trump Administration doing towards that strategy and where is it articulated?

Trump has insulted and distanced from many key allies in his America First ideology - he thinks America can do it better alone. Why would you expect THIS endeavor to be any different? China is increasing it's global powerhouse, NK is laughing at us as Trump proclaims they are no longer a nuclear menace, and Russia? Is being Russia. Another unfettered wannabe power broker. Why do you expect a different plan here?

P.S. I don't disagree with the strategy for pulling Arab states and Israel in a regional agreement - there is no other effective long turm solution. But I'm not seeing that.

The Trump counseling session is down the hall to the FAR left. You HAVE to distance yourself from some abusive people to form more productive relationships and deals.

There was a LOT of dysfunctional foreign policy out there that was "kicking the can down the road" stuff that did HARM the US and some of it's allies.

Unfortunately, any unique REAL solutions to ending THIS stand-off from the from the US under Trump are not happening. But -- he's encouraging the new acceptance of Israel in the Mid-East as a ally to many Arab Sunni states. And THAT will lead somewhere useful... Mutual aid and security in that region now CONSIDERS Israel to be a part of the plan..

I don't kiss Trump's butt nor do I see a coherent foreign policy strategy at play here.

I always thought of Trump as a loose cannon. (Even before the election.) He just does without any detectable thought process.

The "deal of the century" is just another flop in the works.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

So now I am the topic? Is that your discussion strategy here?

If you are free to use the themes and language you find at pro-terrorist sites, I should be free to point out where you are getting your views.

if you had any sort of actual education on the subject, you would not be using all the jargon designed for useful idiots.

Discuss the subject or stay out of the thread. Do not disrupt threads to talk about member here, regardless as to what your opinion of someone is, unless you are posting in the Flame Zone, Badlands, or The Rubber Room. Understand?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ et al,

IF the US were to decide to "reshape" the aid package to Arab Palestine, it has to be compatible and coordinated with the Arab Palestinians "transformation" away from the lawless and violent people they are and the corrupt people they support.

I always thought of Trump as a loose cannon. (Even before the election.) He just does without any detectable thought process.

The "deal of the century" is just another flop in the works.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians are caught in an endless inward swirl of generationally transferred hatred. In order for any real success → the culture must eradicate its intense emotional need for conflict with the Israelis. The Arab Palestinians must make a High-G turn away from their "dependency" on the socially driven objective to neutralization of the Jews (Zionist or whatever) → 180º from the abhorrence of the Jews and focus that energy towards the development in a multinational effort in nation-building.

But that is not happening anytime soon. No one trusts anyone else.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ et al,

IF the US were to decide to "reshape" the aid package to Arab Palestine, it has to be compatible and coordinated with the Arab Palestinians "transformation" away from the lawless and violent people they are and the corrupt people they support.

I always thought of Trump as a loose cannon. (Even before the election.) He just does without any detectable thought process.

The "deal of the century" is just another flop in the works.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians are caught in an endless inward swirl of generationally transferred hatred. In order for any real success → the culture must eradicate its intense emotional need for conflict with the Israelis. The Arab Palestinians must make a High-G turn away from their "dependency" on the socially driven objective to neutralization of the Jews (Zionist or whatever) → 180º from the abhorrence of the Jews and focus that energy towards the development in a multinational effort in nation-building.

But that is not happening anytime soon. No one trusts anyone else.

Most Respectfully,
R

Agree. The question then is whether continued aide supports this transformation or detracts from it.