Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

[flacaltenn]

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

While neither the West Bank or the Gaza Strip have specific trade agreements; it does not mean there is no trade:

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Exports:
$1.955 billion (2017 est.) $1.827 billion (2016 est.) ​

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Imports:
$6.476 billion (2017 est.) $6.11 billion (2016 est.)
​

While no one claims that the economy of the Territories is flourishing (Ranked 142)(whereas Israel Ranked ≈ 45 @ Imports: $60B). But as we discussed before, neither the Ramallah Government nor the Gaza Government is reinvesting revenue back into the infrastructure and the economy. They don't even have a plan (or for that matter a Prospectus) for the development of Areas "A" or "B."

* NOTE: The Jerusalem Economy and the does not include the
...............Sharia-compliant Finance and, of course, effects of the Wadiah.
​

Can you answer the question? If we are removing aid what trade options exist?

(COMMENT)

There is no real (unclassified) textbook on the subject of the financial interests of either government (Gaza of Ramallah). Not only is there a matter of Donor Contributions, but there are also undisclosed external covert sources and the contemporary Islamic movements.

On an open market scale, the economies of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is parasitic. Essentially, the Central Bank for the both is the Palestinian Monetary Authority (PMA). It was an outcome of the Oslo I Accords (1994). For all practical purposes, US Aid has little effect on the operation of the PMA in matters of financial stability and sustainable economic growth.

Most Respectfully,
R

Here is another question, who do they export to and import from?

Well I know from the article I'm submitting that 80% of all West Bank exports go to Israel. And about 25% of materials is imported from Israel. It's like Israels own "captive" trading partner. That NEEDS to change. But like everything in a peace proposal -- it's NOT ENTIRELY FIXED BY ISRAEL. There are issues with West Bank trade with Egypt and Jordan as well.

In the case of Jordan, it's a lot of "protectionism" and only a bit of bad feelings. But Egypt isn't really doing much to encourage trade with the West Bank Palis either.

They NEED a Mediterranean seaport and their own Customs and airport. That's only gonna come from a peace proposal that sets a vision for the WHOLE neighborhood.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

To answer your question on trading partners.

The top export destinations of Palestine are Israel ($770M), Jordan ($67M), Saudi Arabia ($19.9M), the United Arab Emirates ($18.3M) and Qatar ($10M). The top import origins are Israel ($2.93B), Turkey ($309M), China ($282M), Jordan ($173M) and Germany ($128M).
LINK: Observatory of Economic Complexity (OEC - MIT) -

The OEC has a really nice visual breakdown.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Do they have zero ability to grow their economy.

That's rather the point when it comes to things like embargos as a response to belligerence.

What about the West Bank?

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

 

[Coyote]

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

While neither the West Bank or the Gaza Strip have specific trade agreements; it does not mean there is no trade:

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Exports:
$1.955 billion (2017 est.) $1.827 billion (2016 est.) ​

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Imports:
$6.476 billion (2017 est.) $6.11 billion (2016 est.)
​

While no one claims that the economy of the Territories is flourishing (Ranked 142)(whereas Israel Ranked ≈ 45 @ Imports: $60B). But as we discussed before, neither the Ramallah Government nor the Gaza Government is reinvesting revenue back into the infrastructure and the economy. They don't even have a plan (or for that matter a Prospectus) for the development of Areas "A" or "B."

* NOTE: The Jerusalem Economy and the does not include the
...............Sharia-compliant Finance and, of course, effects of the Wadiah.
​

Can you answer the question? If we are removing aid what trade options exist?

(COMMENT)

There is no real (unclassified) textbook on the subject of the financial interests of either government (Gaza of Ramallah). Not only is there a matter of Donor Contributions, but there are also undisclosed external covert sources and the contemporary Islamic movements.

On an open market scale, the economies of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is parasitic. Essentially, the Central Bank for the both is the Palestinian Monetary Authority (PMA). It was an outcome of the Oslo I Accords (1994). For all practical purposes, US Aid has little effect on the operation of the PMA in matters of financial stability and sustainable economic growth.

Most Respectfully,
R

Here is another question, who do they export to and import from?

Well I know from the article I'm submitting that 80% of all West Bank exports go to Israel. And about 25% of materials is imported from Israel. It's like Israels own "captive" trading partner. That NEEDS to change. But like everything in a peace proposal -- it's NOT ENTIRELY FIXED BY ISRAEL. There are issues with West Bank trade with Egypt and Jordan as well.

In the case of Jordan, it's a lot of "protectionism" and only a bit of bad feelings. But Egypt isn't really doing much to encourage trade with the West Bank Palis either.

They NEED a Mediterranean seaport and their own Customs and airport. That's only gonna come from a peace proposal that sets a vision for the WHOLE neighborhood.

That is what I thought I had read from one of your posts somewhere. But I also thought I had read they were not allowed to enter into any independent trade deals with other nations.

 

[flacaltenn]

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

While neither the West Bank or the Gaza Strip have specific trade agreements; it does not mean there is no trade:

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Exports:
$1.955 billion (2017 est.) $1.827 billion (2016 est.) ​

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Imports:
$6.476 billion (2017 est.) $6.11 billion (2016 est.)
​

While no one claims that the economy of the Territories is flourishing (Ranked 142)(whereas Israel Ranked ≈ 45 @ Imports: $60B). But as we discussed before, neither the Ramallah Government nor the Gaza Government is reinvesting revenue back into the infrastructure and the economy. They don't even have a plan (or for that matter a Prospectus) for the development of Areas "A" or "B."

* NOTE: The Jerusalem Economy and the does not include the
...............Sharia-compliant Finance and, of course, effects of the Wadiah.
​

Can you answer the question? If we are removing aid what trade options exist?

(COMMENT)

There is no real (unclassified) textbook on the subject of the financial interests of either government (Gaza of Ramallah). Not only is there a matter of Donor Contributions, but there are also undisclosed external covert sources and the contemporary Islamic movements.

On an open market scale, the economies of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is parasitic. Essentially, the Central Bank for the both is the Palestinian Monetary Authority (PMA). It was an outcome of the Oslo I Accords (1994). For all practical purposes, US Aid has little effect on the operation of the PMA in matters of financial stability and sustainable economic growth.

Most Respectfully,
R

Here is another question, who do they export to and import from?

Well I know from the article I'm submitting that 80% of all West Bank exports go to Israel. And about 25% of materials is imported from Israel. It's like Israels own "captive" trading partner. That NEEDS to change. But like everything in a peace proposal -- it's NOT ENTIRELY FIXED BY ISRAEL. There are issues with West Bank trade with Egypt and Jordan as well.

In the case of Jordan, it's a lot of "protectionism" and only a bit of bad feelings. But Egypt isn't really doing much to encourage trade with the West Bank Palis either.

They NEED a Mediterranean seaport and their own Customs and airport. That's only gonna come from a peace proposal that sets a vision for the WHOLE neighborhood.

That is what I thought I had read from one of your posts somewhere. But I also thought I had read they were not allowed to enter into any independent trade deals with other nations.

They do get exports out thru Jordan. Israel has little say in the matter except for collecting taxes and duties. But they don't HAVE global access by any means. Even some isolated pacific islands have more world connections than they do.

That's also NOT Israel's fault. It has more to do with WHAT they export.

Israel should have no real issue with stuff "going out".. If they had the access, the people would design products for a world market. They're very capable of doing business..

 

[Shusha]

Do they have zero ability to grow their economy.

That's rather the point when it comes to things like embargos as a response to belligerence.

What about the West Bank?

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

 

[Coyote]

Do they have zero ability to grow their economy.

That's rather the point when it comes to things like embargos as a response to belligerence.

What about the West Bank?

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

 

[Indeependent]

That's rather the point when it comes to things like embargos as a response to belligerence.

What about the West Bank?

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Collective Murder vs Collective Punishment.
Life’s a *****, ain’t it.

 

[Shusha]

That's rather the point when it comes to things like embargos as a response to belligerence.

What about the West Bank?

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Okay. So if someone is being belligerent and you can't place economic sanctions against them And you can't respond with military action, what is the solution to belligerence?

 

[fncceo]

One thousand plus posts on a subject that personally affects .01% of everyone here.

I can only hazard a guess why this particular subject elicits such emotions.

 

[Coyote]

What about the West Bank?

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Collective Murder vs Collective Punishment.
Life’s a *****, ain’t it.

Genocide is the ultimate collective punishment.

There is a good reason it is considered criminal.

 

[Coyote]

What about the West Bank?

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Okay. So if someone is being belligerent and you can't place economic sanctions against them And you can't respond with military action, what is the solution to belligerence?

Being belligerent how?

 

[Shusha]

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Okay. So if someone is being belligerent and you can't place economic sanctions against them And you can't respond with military action, what is the solution to belligerence?

Being belligerent how?

So, to be clear, you are fine with embargos as a response to belligerence? Yes or no?

 

[Coyote]

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Okay. So if someone is being belligerent and you can't place economic sanctions against them And you can't respond with military action, what is the solution to belligerence?

Being belligerent how?

So, to be clear, you are fine with embargos as a response to belligerence? Yes or no?

It is not a simple yes or no. It depends on how you define belligerence. Is ugly rhetoric belligerence? And how extreme the embargo is. At what point does it become a siege?

 

[flacaltenn]

The PA should pay their hospital bills instead of paying for the belligerence that is terrorism. Removing aide payments is step one of an embargo. Point is exactly the same.

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Collective Murder vs Collective Punishment.
Life’s a *****, ain’t it.

Genocide is the ultimate collective punishment.

There is a good reason it is considered criminal.

And how did you leap to genocide? You think those WBank Palis buying into expensive flats and condos in Wahabi are concerned with genocide??

 

[Coyote]

Actually I might have to rethink my answer. Embargo, blockade and siege are three very distinct terms with different meanings. I didn’t realize it until I looked it up.

'Blockade' and 'Embargo' Have Different Meanings

 

[Shusha]

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Okay. So if someone is being belligerent and you can't place economic sanctions against them And you can't respond with military action, what is the solution to belligerence?

Being belligerent how?

So, to be clear, you are fine with embargos as a response to belligerence? Yes or no?

It is not a simple yes or no. It depends on how you define belligerence. Is ugly rhetoric belligerence? And how extreme the embargo is. At what point does it become a siege?

I would argue that ugly words which have an effect of actual, physical violence is without doubt belligerence. I would argue that incitement or encouragement of actual, physical violence is belligerence. I would argue that paying people to commit violence is certainly belligerence.

Is embargo EVER a legitimate response to belligerence? Yes or no?

 

[Coyote]

So now the West Bank will be under embargo as well?

Is that a problem for you? Why?

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Collective Murder vs Collective Punishment.
Life’s a *****, ain’t it.

Genocide is the ultimate collective punishment.

There is a good reason it is considered criminal.

And how did you leap to genocide? You think those WBank Palis buying into expensive flats and condos in Wahabi are concerned with genocide??

Because I was responding collective murder vs collective punishment. The extrem end of collective punishment would be genocide don’t you think?

 

[Coyote]

Because I don’t think that is the right thing to do. It is collective punishment and unlike Hamas, the PA is not a terrorist organization.

Okay. So if someone is being belligerent and you can't place economic sanctions against them And you can't respond with military action, what is the solution to belligerence?

Being belligerent how?

So, to be clear, you are fine with embargos as a response to belligerence? Yes or no?

It is not a simple yes or no. It depends on how you define belligerence. Is ugly rhetoric belligerence? And how extreme the embargo is. At what point does it become a siege?

I would argue that ugly words which have an effect of actual, physical violence is without doubt belligerence. I would argue that incitement or encouragement of actual, physical violence is belligerence. I would argue that paying people to commit violence is certainly belligerence.

Is embargo EVER a legitimate response to belligerence? Yes or no?

Yes. It is a legitimate response to state sponsored belligerence in the form of ACTIONS.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,

While neither the West Bank or the Gaza Strip have specific trade agreements; it does not mean there is no trade:

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Exports:
$1.955 billion (2017 est.) $1.827 billion (2016 est.) ​

West Bank + Gaza Strip* Imports:
$6.476 billion (2017 est.) $6.11 billion (2016 est.)
​

While no one claims that the economy of the Territories is flourishing (Ranked 142)(whereas Israel Ranked ≈ 45 @ Imports: $60B). But as we discussed before, neither the Ramallah Government nor the Gaza Government is reinvesting revenue back into the infrastructure and the economy. They don't even have a plan (or for that matter a Prospectus) for the development of Areas "A" or "B."

* NOTE: The Jerusalem Economy and the does not include the
...............Sharia-compliant Finance and, of course, effects of the Wadiah.
​

Can you answer the question? If we are removing aid what trade options exist?

(COMMENT)

There is no real (unclassified) textbook on the subject of the financial interests of either government (Gaza of Ramallah). Not only is there a matter of Donor Contributions, but there are also undisclosed external covert sources and the contemporary Islamic movements.

On an open market scale, the economies of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is parasitic. Essentially, the Central Bank for the both is the Palestinian Monetary Authority (PMA). It was an outcome of the Oslo I Accords (1994). For all practical purposes, US Aid has little effect on the operation of the PMA in matters of financial stability and sustainable economic growth.

Most Respectfully,
R

Here is another question, who do they export to and import from?

Well I know from the article I'm submitting that 80% of all West Bank exports go to Israel. And about 25% of materials is imported from Israel. It's like Israels own "captive" trading partner. That NEEDS to change. But like everything in a peace proposal -- it's NOT ENTIRELY FIXED BY ISRAEL. There are issues with West Bank trade with Egypt and Jordan as well.

In the case of Jordan, it's a lot of "protectionism" and only a bit of bad feelings. But Egypt isn't really doing much to encourage trade with the West Bank Palis either.

They NEED a Mediterranean seaport and their own Customs and airport. That's only gonna come from a peace proposal that sets a vision for the WHOLE neighborhood.

That is what I thought I had read from one of your posts somewhere. But I also thought I had read they were not allowed to enter into any independent trade deals with other nations.

They do get exports out thru Jordan. Israel has little say in the matter except for collecting taxes and duties. But they don't HAVE global access by any means. Even some isolated pacific islands have more world connections than they do.

That's also NOT Israel's fault. It has more to do with WHAT they export.

Israel should have no real issue with stuff "going out".. If they had the access, the people would design products for a world market. They're very capable of doing business..

Neither the West Bank nor Gaza have any direct access to the outside world without going through Israel. Everything and everybody must pass through Israel so Israel controls everything. (None of the so called generous offers proposed in the fake peace process included direct access to the outside world. Israel would still control everything.) Exporting through Israel is arduous, time consuming, and expensive if allowed at all. Palestine cannot have a functioning economy without free access to markets.

Then there is this thing about productive capacity which is a different story for a different day.