Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

[Sixties Fan]

Jews are an amalgam of many peoples and Jewish origins include a multitude of languages, nations, tribes, and skin colors.



What is so bad about this?

Um. Because its completely, totally and insultingly wrong.

The Jewish people are not an amalgam of many peoples. They are one single, existing people who have, through miracles (!), managed to retain their culture, customs and traditions despite ethnic cleansing from their indigenous territory by invaders and the constant pressure to assimilate and erase their culture, customs and traditions, even in the face of pogroms, persecution, discrimination, forced conversion, expulsions and genocide. The Jewish origins do NOT include a "multitude" of languages, nations, tribes and skin colors. (Bringing up that last is gross, btw). The Jewish origins are a single, united, unified origin with ONE language and ONE nation and ONE land.

When you talk about Arab Palestinians you mostly make sense. But, wow, when you start talking about Jews, its ugly.

I truly don’t understand your reaction except in one way, acknowledging any of this in any way feeds into certain ugly anti Semitic canards, because this seems like such an extreme reaction.

I Did not mean Jewish origins, which originated with one people in one area thousands of years ago, but what there is today and acknowledging that diversity should not be ugly and doesn’t make Jews any less a people or a shared culture so why do you label it ugly? The people today are the result of a diaspora, which includes many other people from around the world in addition to the original Jews. It is glorious in fact that a tiny group of people managed to survive, spread around the world, retain, sometimes in vestiges their culture and practices, and then bring it all with them to Israel. Today’s Jews are light skinned, dark skinned, blonde, brunette, red haired....what is WRONG with acknowledging that? Why is it gross? Are they any less Jewish if they don’t fit a stereotype?

Jews today include a multitude of languages that are not Hebrew. In fact one obstacle to some in Aliyah is having to learn Hebrew. There is ONE language that unites them as a people, but they bring many languages from the diaspora with them and diverse cultural traditions as well as the Jewish traditions they have in common with their fellow Jews. Again why is acknowledging this and even celebrating it completely taboo, or as you label it ugly?

This makes discussing things like walking through a minefield.

It is taboo, ugly and a minefield because of the antisemitic canard that Jews = Europeans. That claim is a claim used to prevent Jews from their rights to their indigenous homeland.

Even something as seemingly simple as saying, "Jews are an amalgam of peoples" erases Jewish origins and history and the unified nature of the Jewish people. It is used to do just that.

How could a person who grew up in the United States even push that lie in the first place is what I wonder. It is such common knowledge in the States that Jewish people living in Europe kept to their own communities, married among themselves and followed their own culture that I would think only a foreigner growing up in an Islamic country would think otherwise.

You are obviously borderline retarded then. Why don’t your use your much bragged upon Stanford educated brain? Jews did what any other people would do in a diaspora that spread across the world. They married outside their community. If, for what, three thousand years or more this tiny group of people only married among themselves you would have the most inbred population earth and that is clearly not true. But keep on trying to make this personal, it is what you do best.

It is not that Jews did not get married with those outside their community, but it is that once in the Diaspora, especially, they did mostly marry within their own community, which is not to say that they were all related to each other, which they were not.

It is rare that outsiders entered the Jewish community via marriage, and yes it did happen, but not to the extent one may be thinking.

2) The fact that Jews have lived all over the world and have lived amongst all of those different cultures, does not mean that they allowed themselves to assimilate into those cultures. They were somewhat closed. (Fiddler on the Roof, anyone? )

And if one considers how closed they were forced to be once Ghettos were created in Europe, then one can see that indeed they would not have married outside their communities, much less assimilated much of the culture which was outside that Ghetto.

And the same would be true in what we call the Middle East.

Why? Survival of the Jewish religion, culture, and everything else which makes Judaism.

The Jewish experience is not like that of other peoples, exactly because they were always few, and were always being made to move if the host countries became dangerous for them.

 

[Shusha]

They all have holy sites.

So easy to have a holy site when you can just steal it from another people.

The three Abrahamic faiths are built upon one another, they have many sites in common. Why the need to denigrate any of them?

Even this is disingenuous. The three faiths are not built on one another. They don't have sites in common.

Can you give me an example of a Jewish holy site which was built on top of a Christian or Muslim site? Without having a pre-existing Jewish site?

You are correct. What I should have said was Christianity was built upon Judaism and Islam was built upon Judaism and Christianity. My bad. I was attempting to point out the interrelatedness of the faiths.

But this is exactly where you are, perhaps unwittingly, demonstrating a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish perspective (at best).

The three faiths are NOT "interrelated" from a Jewish perspective. The Christian and Muslim faiths have borrowed from Judaism, corrupted it, changed it, added to it.

But there is nothing in either Christianity or Islam that relates to Judaism from the JEWISH point of view. There is no two way street here.

That does not mean cooperation and mutual respect can't happen. On the contrary, it is a tenet of the Jewish faith that the nations be welcome to pray in Jewish holy spaces and to acknowledge they will pray in their own way (with certain some very basic expectations). And that this is not only okay but correct.

This is where I am trying to challenge you. Your wish for equality in all things actually keeps you from acknowledging wrongs committed to original peoples.

 

[Coyote]

If what makes a people a people is being bound by a common identifying culture, then what difference does it make if that people have a mixed heritage as long as they maintained that cultural integrity? To put it bluntly (and I am sure I will get slammed yet again for saying it) that diversity is a reality. Jews from around the world bring with them parts of that other world into their Jewish culture. A tiny group of people could not survive thousands of years without marrying outside itself and no people can remain in a foreign culture for hundreds of years without adapting part of that culture. But apparently to speak of it gets one labeled as antisemitic in this forum.

 

[Shusha]

Um. Because its completely, totally and insultingly wrong.

The Jewish people are not an amalgam of many peoples. They are one single, existing people who have, through miracles (!), managed to retain their culture, customs and traditions despite ethnic cleansing from their indigenous territory by invaders and the constant pressure to assimilate and erase their culture, customs and traditions, even in the face of pogroms, persecution, discrimination, forced conversion, expulsions and genocide. The Jewish origins do NOT include a "multitude" of languages, nations, tribes and skin colors. (Bringing up that last is gross, btw). The Jewish origins are a single, united, unified origin with ONE language and ONE nation and ONE land.

When you talk about Arab Palestinians you mostly make sense. But, wow, when you start talking about Jews, its ugly.

I truly don’t understand your reaction except in one way, acknowledging any of this in any way feeds into certain ugly anti Semitic canards, because this seems like such an extreme reaction.

I Did not mean Jewish origins, which originated with one people in one area thousands of years ago, but what there is today and acknowledging that diversity should not be ugly and doesn’t make Jews any less a people or a shared culture so why do you label it ugly? The people today are the result of a diaspora, which includes many other people from around the world in addition to the original Jews. It is glorious in fact that a tiny group of people managed to survive, spread around the world, retain, sometimes in vestiges their culture and practices, and then bring it all with them to Israel. Today’s Jews are light skinned, dark skinned, blonde, brunette, red haired....what is WRONG with acknowledging that? Why is it gross? Are they any less Jewish if they don’t fit a stereotype?

Jews today include a multitude of languages that are not Hebrew. In fact one obstacle to some in Aliyah is having to learn Hebrew. There is ONE language that unites them as a people, but they bring many languages from the diaspora with them and diverse cultural traditions as well as the Jewish traditions they have in common with their fellow Jews. Again why is acknowledging this and even celebrating it completely taboo, or as you label it ugly?

This makes discussing things like walking through a minefield.

It is taboo, ugly and a minefield because of the antisemitic canard that Jews = Europeans. That claim is a claim used to prevent Jews from their rights to their indigenous homeland.

Even something as seemingly simple as saying, "Jews are an amalgam of peoples" erases Jewish origins and history and the unified nature of the Jewish people. It is used to do just that.

You know Shusha, maybe you ought to consider INTENT before just slamming something as ugly. It IS possible to celebrate and admire the rich diversity of Jewish culture WITHOUT delegitimizing it as a culture! But I guess that is absolutely taboo around here. And while you are at it, consider the INTENT of those who refer to Palestinians “Arab Moslems” and place that along side the words in your last paragraph.

I don't know your intent. I can only read your words.

People on this board regularly use the idea that Jews are nothing more than invading, colonizing Europeans All. The. Time. On this board. And in general.

So when you type "Jews are an amalgam of many peoples and Jewish origins include a multitude of different languages, nations, tribes and skin colours" what should I consider your intent to be?

Because that sounds eerily similar to my ears. It sounds like you are saying Jews are not A people but a mix of different people from all over the world who have a mix of different origins.

That denies the common, indigenous heritage of the Jewish people.

Have I ever done that?

Yep. I'm saying you are doing it in this conversation. Or at least close enough that I'm calling you out on it.

 

[Shusha]

If what makes a people a people is being bound by a common identifying culture, then what difference does it make if that people have a mixed heritage as long as they maintained that cultural integrity? To put it bluntly (and I am sure I will get slammed yet again for saying it) that diversity is a reality. Jews from around the world bring with them parts of that other world into their Jewish culture. A tiny group of people could not survive thousands of years without marrying outside itself and no people can remain in a foreign culture for hundreds of years without adapting part of that culture. But apparently to speak of it gets one labeled as antisemitic in this forum.

Because it becomes perilously close to the "not real Jews" argument.

Let me put it another way. Why bring up Israeli diversity? What's the point? If you agree that there is a unifying Jewish culture -- why bring up diverse culture at all in the context of this discussion. This discussion is about accepting EACH peoples self-identification as a unique peoples with strong culture, customs and traditions.

So why not stick with that?

 

[Coyote]

I truly don’t understand your reaction except in one way, acknowledging any of this in any way feeds into certain ugly anti Semitic canards, because this seems like such an extreme reaction.

I Did not mean Jewish origins, which originated with one people in one area thousands of years ago, but what there is today and acknowledging that diversity should not be ugly and doesn’t make Jews any less a people or a shared culture so why do you label it ugly? The people today are the result of a diaspora, which includes many other people from around the world in addition to the original Jews. It is glorious in fact that a tiny group of people managed to survive, spread around the world, retain, sometimes in vestiges their culture and practices, and then bring it all with them to Israel. Today’s Jews are light skinned, dark skinned, blonde, brunette, red haired....what is WRONG with acknowledging that? Why is it gross? Are they any less Jewish if they don’t fit a stereotype?

Jews today include a multitude of languages that are not Hebrew. In fact one obstacle to some in Aliyah is having to learn Hebrew. There is ONE language that unites them as a people, but they bring many languages from the diaspora with them and diverse cultural traditions as well as the Jewish traditions they have in common with their fellow Jews. Again why is acknowledging this and even celebrating it completely taboo, or as you label it ugly?

This makes discussing things like walking through a minefield.

It is taboo, ugly and a minefield because of the antisemitic canard that Jews = Europeans. That claim is a claim used to prevent Jews from their rights to their indigenous homeland.

Even something as seemingly simple as saying, "Jews are an amalgam of peoples" erases Jewish origins and history and the unified nature of the Jewish people. It is used to do just that.

You know Shusha, maybe you ought to consider INTENT before just slamming something as ugly. It IS possible to celebrate and admire the rich diversity of Jewish culture WITHOUT delegitimizing it as a culture! But I guess that is absolutely taboo around here. And while you are at it, consider the INTENT of those who refer to Palestinians “Arab Moslems” and place that along side the words in your last paragraph.

I don't know your intent. I can only read your words.

People on this board regularly use the idea that Jews are nothing more than invading, colonizing Europeans All. The. Time. On this board. And in general.

So when you type "Jews are an amalgam of many peoples and Jewish origins include a multitude of different languages, nations, tribes and skin colours" what should I consider your intent to be?

Because that sounds eerily similar to my ears. It sounds like you are saying Jews are not A people but a mix of different people from all over the world who have a mix of different origins.

That denies the common, indigenous heritage of the Jewish people.

Have I ever done that?

Yep. I'm saying you are doing it in this conversation. Or at least close enough that I'm calling you out on it.

Then I am done with discussion with you, Because I have never called or implied that they are invaders.

Good day.

 

[Shusha]

It is taboo, ugly and a minefield because of the antisemitic canard that Jews = Europeans. That claim is a claim used to prevent Jews from their rights to their indigenous homeland.

Even something as seemingly simple as saying, "Jews are an amalgam of peoples" erases Jewish origins and history and the unified nature of the Jewish people. It is used to do just that.

You know Shusha, maybe you ought to consider INTENT before just slamming something as ugly. It IS possible to celebrate and admire the rich diversity of Jewish culture WITHOUT delegitimizing it as a culture! But I guess that is absolutely taboo around here. And while you are at it, consider the INTENT of those who refer to Palestinians “Arab Moslems” and place that along side the words in your last paragraph.

I don't know your intent. I can only read your words.

People on this board regularly use the idea that Jews are nothing more than invading, colonizing Europeans All. The. Time. On this board. And in general.

So when you type "Jews are an amalgam of many peoples and Jewish origins include a multitude of different languages, nations, tribes and skin colours" what should I consider your intent to be?

Because that sounds eerily similar to my ears. It sounds like you are saying Jews are not A people but a mix of different people from all over the world who have a mix of different origins.

That denies the common, indigenous heritage of the Jewish people.

Have I ever done that?

Yep. I'm saying you are doing it in this conversation. Or at least close enough that I'm calling you out on it.

Then I am done with discussion with you, Because I have never called or implied that they are invaders.

Good day.

No you have not.

But you ARE using the same foundational argument.

And then expect me to assume good intent from you where there is ill intent from others.

I'm just suggesting you not use that foundational argument.

 

[Coyote]

If what makes a people a people is being bound by a common identifying culture, then what difference does it make if that people have a mixed heritage as long as they maintained that cultural integrity? To put it bluntly (and I am sure I will get slammed yet again for saying it) that diversity is a reality. Jews from around the world bring with them parts of that other world into their Jewish culture. A tiny group of people could not survive thousands of years without marrying outside itself and no people can remain in a foreign culture for hundreds of years without adapting part of that culture. But apparently to speak of it gets one labeled as antisemitic in this forum.

Because it becomes perilously close to the "not real Jews" argument.

Let me put it another way. Why bring up Israeli diversity? What's the point? If you agree that there is a unifying Jewish culture -- why bring up diverse culture at all in the context of this discussion. This discussion is about accepting EACH peoples self-identification as a unique peoples with strong culture, customs and traditions.

So why not stick with that?

I don’t remember what caused it to be brought up in the first place because this thread has rambled all over, but my reason saying what I do is I admire cultural richness and diversity. I don’t happen to see it as a negative nor do I see it as negating a people’s unique cultural identity, quite the opposite. Yet you keep insisting that is what it does. Culture is not a static thing.

 

[Coyote]

You know Shusha, maybe you ought to consider INTENT before just slamming something as ugly. It IS possible to celebrate and admire the rich diversity of Jewish culture WITHOUT delegitimizing it as a culture! But I guess that is absolutely taboo around here. And while you are at it, consider the INTENT of those who refer to Palestinians “Arab Moslems” and place that along side the words in your last paragraph.

I don't know your intent. I can only read your words.

People on this board regularly use the idea that Jews are nothing more than invading, colonizing Europeans All. The. Time. On this board. And in general.

So when you type "Jews are an amalgam of many peoples and Jewish origins include a multitude of different languages, nations, tribes and skin colours" what should I consider your intent to be?

Because that sounds eerily similar to my ears. It sounds like you are saying Jews are not A people but a mix of different people from all over the world who have a mix of different origins.

That denies the common, indigenous heritage of the Jewish people.

Have I ever done that?

Yep. I'm saying you are doing it in this conversation. Or at least close enough that I'm calling you out on it.

Then I am done with discussion with you, Because I have never called or implied that they are invaders.

Good day.

No you have not.

But you ARE using the same foundational argument.

And then expect me to assume good intent from you where there is ill intent from others.

I'm just suggesting you not use that foundational argument.

You and I have argued for several years. I thought you would have known me better after all this time.

 

[Shusha]

If what makes a people a people is being bound by a common identifying culture, then what difference does it make if that people have a mixed heritage as long as they maintained that cultural integrity? To put it bluntly (and I am sure I will get slammed yet again for saying it) that diversity is a reality. Jews from around the world bring with them parts of that other world into their Jewish culture. A tiny group of people could not survive thousands of years without marrying outside itself and no people can remain in a foreign culture for hundreds of years without adapting part of that culture. But apparently to speak of it gets one labeled as antisemitic in this forum.

Because it becomes perilously close to the "not real Jews" argument.

Let me put it another way. Why bring up Israeli diversity? What's the point? If you agree that there is a unifying Jewish culture -- why bring up diverse culture at all in the context of this discussion. This discussion is about accepting EACH peoples self-identification as a unique peoples with strong culture, customs and traditions.

So why not stick with that?

I don’t remember what caused it to be brought up in the first place because this thread has rambled all over, but my reason saying what I do is I admire cultural richness and diversity. I don’t happen to see it as a negative nor do I see it as negating a people’s unique cultural identity, quite the opposite. Yet you keep insisting that is what it does. Culture is not a static thing.

Well remember that I am used to wandering in this swampland of ugliness that is I/P.

If you want not to be part of that swampland (and I know that you are not), just be sensitive to calling attention to Jews as "foreigners". Thats all I'm suggesting.

 

[Shusha]

I don't know your intent. I can only read your words.

People on this board regularly use the idea that Jews are nothing more than invading, colonizing Europeans All. The. Time. On this board. And in general.

So when you type "Jews are an amalgam of many peoples and Jewish origins include a multitude of different languages, nations, tribes and skin colours" what should I consider your intent to be?

Because that sounds eerily similar to my ears. It sounds like you are saying Jews are not A people but a mix of different people from all over the world who have a mix of different origins.

That denies the common, indigenous heritage of the Jewish people.

Have I ever done that?

Yep. I'm saying you are doing it in this conversation. Or at least close enough that I'm calling you out on it.

Then I am done with discussion with you, Because I have never called or implied that they are invaders.

Good day.

No you have not.

But you ARE using the same foundational argument.

And then expect me to assume good intent from you where there is ill intent from others.

I'm just suggesting you not use that foundational argument.

You and I have argued for several years. I thought you would have known me better after all this time.

It's because I trust you that I feel comfortable challenging you to see a very nuanced and subtle side of the narratives.

 

[Sixties Fan]

If what makes a people a people is being bound by a common identifying culture, then what difference does it make if that people have a mixed heritage as long as they maintained that cultural integrity? To put it bluntly (and I am sure I will get slammed yet again for saying it) that diversity is a reality. Jews from around the world bring with them parts of that other world into their Jewish culture. A tiny group of people could not survive thousands of years without marrying outside itself and no people can remain in a foreign culture for hundreds of years without adapting part of that culture. But apparently to speak of it gets one labeled as antisemitic in this forum.

We have never said that non Jews did not marry into Judaism for the past 3500 years.
And we have never said that other cultures did not influence at one time or another one group of Jews or another around the world.

That has nothing to do with most Jewish people being indigenous to the land of Israel, where they originated.

All still carry studying the Torah, the same covenant with their G-d and keeping nearly the same habits, and of course they will adapt or create new foods, clothes, etc, based on the how long they spent in any part of the world and which people or invaders they had to deal with.

Still, there is a huge history, cultural norms, etc which are basically Jewish.

I still would like to know what makes the Palestinians Palestinians, different from every other Arab groups. They are different Arab tribes, with different norms, etc. put together because they ended up being in Mandate Palestine in 1948.

What is different about them, which separates them culturally, artistically, musically, etc from all other Arabs?

And I still would like to know, if they indeed do have an identity, why has it not been displayed in the Palestinian Museum?

They have had 100 years to choose from.
(Abbas will say 10,000 years, but.....where is it?)

And to turn this back to the topic of the thread......

Why should the US, or any other give any money to those who are clearly terrorists, and not willing to come to the table and discuss a peace treaty?

A peace treaty which would only make the lives of their population better, put an end to the waste we keep seeing, in education, in resources, in lives.

Why are Hamas and the PLO so against co-existing with Jews, normalizing relations with Israel and Jews, that they punish their population with death, sometimes, if they sell their homes or lands to Jews?

 

[Coyote]

They all have holy sites.

So easy to have a holy site when you can just steal it from another people.

The three Abrahamic faiths are built upon one another, they have many sites in common. Why the need to denigrate any of them?

Even this is disingenuous. The three faiths are not built on one another. They don't have sites in common.

Can you give me an example of a Jewish holy site which was built on top of a Christian or Muslim site? Without having a pre-existing Jewish site?

You are correct. What I should have said was Christianity was built upon Judaism and Islam was built upon Judaism and Christianity. My bad. I was attempting to point out the interrelatedness of the faiths.

But this is exactly where you are, perhaps unwittingly, demonstrating a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish perspective (at best).

The three faiths are NOT "interrelated" from a Jewish perspective. The Christian and Muslim faiths have borrowed from Judaism, corrupted it, changed it, added to it.

But there is nothing in either Christianity or Islam that relates to Judaism from the JEWISH point of view. There is no two way street here.

That does not mean cooperation and mutual respect can't happen. On the contrary, it is a tenet of the Jewish faith that the nations be welcome to pray in Jewish holy spaces and to acknowledge they will pray in their own way (with certain some very basic expectations). And that this is not only okay but correct.

This is where I am trying to challenge you. Your wish for equality in all things actually keeps you from acknowledging wrongs committed to original peoples.

I look at it from an outside and historical perspective, and none of them are two way streets. We have talked about it before, pretty much every religion is built upon older faiths and their stories, even Judaism. I agree on the primacy of the fundamental rights of Jews to their sacred places, with the caveat that for those succeeding faiths who have also made those spots sacred, that their rights of access also be protected.

 

[Coyote]

If what makes a people a people is being bound by a common identifying culture, then what difference does it make if that people have a mixed heritage as long as they maintained that cultural integrity? To put it bluntly (and I am sure I will get slammed yet again for saying it) that diversity is a reality. Jews from around the world bring with them parts of that other world into their Jewish culture. A tiny group of people could not survive thousands of years without marrying outside itself and no people can remain in a foreign culture for hundreds of years without adapting part of that culture. But apparently to speak of it gets one labeled as antisemitic in this forum.

Because it becomes perilously close to the "not real Jews" argument.

Let me put it another way. Why bring up Israeli diversity? What's the point? If you agree that there is a unifying Jewish culture -- why bring up diverse culture at all in the context of this discussion. This discussion is about accepting EACH peoples self-identification as a unique peoples with strong culture, customs and traditions.

So why not stick with that?

I don’t remember what caused it to be brought up in the first place because this thread has rambled all over, but my reason saying what I do is I admire cultural richness and diversity. I don’t happen to see it as a negative nor do I see it as negating a people’s unique cultural identity, quite the opposite. Yet you keep insisting that is what it does. Culture is not a static thing.

Well remember that I am used to wandering in this swampland of ugliness that is I/P.

If you want not to be part of that swampland (and I know that you are not), just be sensitive to calling attention to Jews as "foreigners". Thats all I'm suggesting.

I can attempt to do that.

 

[Coyote]

Have I ever done that?

Yep. I'm saying you are doing it in this conversation. Or at least close enough that I'm calling you out on it.

Then I am done with discussion with you, Because I have never called or implied that they are invaders.

Good day.

No you have not.

But you ARE using the same foundational argument.

And then expect me to assume good intent from you where there is ill intent from others.

I'm just suggesting you not use that foundational argument.

You and I have argued for several years. I thought you would have known me better after all this time.

It's because I trust you that I feel comfortable challenging you to see a very nuanced and subtle side of the narratives.

I accept the challenge then.

It is extremely hard not to be over sensitive in a place like IP because there are more people who’s focus is attacking others rather than attacking arguments and it goes downhill very quickly from there. I don’t react well to that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Then I would not be honest. They are all roughly equal in my view with plenty of good and bad to go around. What you don’t get is I oppose demonizing any religion in the dishonest and downright dangerous way we see all too often.

You make a lot demands. Like the one you just made.

If there were any actual truth in your statement, then why don't your postings reflect it?

You have made many tens of thousands of postings in service to Islam, with hundreds, if not thousands of them demanding that people attack Christianity and Judaism whenever the subject involves Islam.

If you truly saw them as equal, it would not be so obvious to all concerned that you always defend Islam.

The topic is not about me. Start one in the FZ if you wish to get personal and I will join you.

You have called me a liar several times in this thread for telling the truth.


You seem to consider telling the truth about your pattern of behavior an attack, yet have no qualms about calling others a liar when they tell the truth.

One truth is that "Palestinians" are an intentional invention created in order to manipulate people.

Palestinians are a people. It is a shame you, Sixties and others cant see that as you apply the same tactics of disenfranchisement and delegitimization on them as the antisemites do on Jews.

You are no different then they.

Let me know when you want to duke it out in the FZ since you seem incapable of refraining from making the topic about me.

Good day

Then I would not be honest. They are all roughly equal in my view with plenty of good and bad to go around. What you don’t get is I oppose demonizing any religion in the dishonest and downright dangerous way we see all too often.

You make a lot demands. Like the one you just made.

If there were any actual truth in your statement, then why don't your postings reflect it?

You have made many tens of thousands of postings in service to Islam, with hundreds, if not thousands of them demanding that people attack Christianity and Judaism whenever the subject involves Islam.

If you truly saw them as equal, it would not be so obvious to all concerned that you always defend Islam.

The topic is not about me. Start one in the FZ if you wish to get personal and I will join you.

You have called me a liar several times in this thread for telling the truth.


You seem to consider telling the truth about your pattern of behavior an attack, yet have no qualms about calling others a liar when they tell the truth.

One truth is that "Palestinians" are an intentional invention created in order to manipulate people.

Palestinians are a people. It is a shame you, Sixties and others cant see that as you apply the same tactics of disenfranchisement and delegitimization on them as the antisemites do on Jews.

You are no different then they.

Let me know when you want to duke it out in the FZ since you seem incapable of refraining from making the topic about me.

Good day

i have no intention of going to the basement with you, Coyote. If you cannot handle the truth without becoming this hysterical, that is your problem, not mine.

The truth of the matter, is that "Palestinians" are an intentional fabrication created as a weapon against Israel, and they have NEVER been about creating a state. If that were true, they would have been lobbying for one between 1948 and 1967. The reason they didn't is that they were Arabs who saw themselves simply as Arabs.

and they have NEVER been about creating a state. If that were true, they would have been lobbying for one between 1948 and 1967.

They did. The Palestinians declared independence in 1948.

You need to keep up.

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

It is not Islam that is against Jews - it is all in the Quran - but Palestinians. And lets not get into the rest of your bull$hit.

The supremacist manifesto called the Quoran instructs followers not to take Jews and Christians as friends and encourages lying to them.

Quote that part. good luck!

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It is not Islam that is against Jews - it is all in the Quran - but Palestinians. And lets not get into the rest of your bull$hit.

The supremacist manifesto called the Quoran instructs followers not to take Jews and Christians as friends and encourages lying to them.

Quote that part. good luck!

Quran 5:51 "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Quran 5:80 "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide."

Quran 3:28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..."

Quran 3:118 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..."

those are just some.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

If there were any actual truth in your statement, then why don't your postings reflect it?

You have made many tens of thousands of postings in service to Islam, with hundreds, if not thousands of them demanding that people attack Christianity and Judaism whenever the subject involves Islam.

If you truly saw them as equal, it would not be so obvious to all concerned that you always defend Islam.

The topic is not about me. Start one in the FZ if you wish to get personal and I will join you.

You have called me a liar several times in this thread for telling the truth.


You seem to consider telling the truth about your pattern of behavior an attack, yet have no qualms about calling others a liar when they tell the truth.

One truth is that "Palestinians" are an intentional invention created in order to manipulate people.

Palestinians are a people. It is a shame you, Sixties and others cant see that as you apply the same tactics of disenfranchisement and delegitimization on them as the antisemites do on Jews.

You are no different then they.

Let me know when you want to duke it out in the FZ since you seem incapable of refraining from making the topic about me.

Good day

If there were any actual truth in your statement, then why don't your postings reflect it?

You have made many tens of thousands of postings in service to Islam, with hundreds, if not thousands of them demanding that people attack Christianity and Judaism whenever the subject involves Islam.

If you truly saw them as equal, it would not be so obvious to all concerned that you always defend Islam.

The topic is not about me. Start one in the FZ if you wish to get personal and I will join you.

You have called me a liar several times in this thread for telling the truth.


You seem to consider telling the truth about your pattern of behavior an attack, yet have no qualms about calling others a liar when they tell the truth.

One truth is that "Palestinians" are an intentional invention created in order to manipulate people.

Palestinians are a people. It is a shame you, Sixties and others cant see that as you apply the same tactics of disenfranchisement and delegitimization on them as the antisemites do on Jews.

You are no different then they.

Let me know when you want to duke it out in the FZ since you seem incapable of refraining from making the topic about me.

Good day

i have no intention of going to the basement with you, Coyote. If you cannot handle the truth without becoming this hysterical, that is your problem, not mine.

The truth of the matter, is that "Palestinians" are an intentional fabrication created as a weapon against Israel, and they have NEVER been about creating a state. If that were true, they would have been lobbying for one between 1948 and 1967. The reason they didn't is that they were Arabs who saw themselves simply as Arabs.

Of course you don’t. You would much rather derail a thread while pretending to be on topic with your throw away lines because you are far to cowardly to take to the FZ where it belongs aren’t you?

And, like the antisemites you pretend to revile, you take a page right out of their books in denying the Palestinians their identity as a people...after all, as far as you are concerned all Arab cultures are the same from Morocco to Yemen to Egypt. Why don’t you take a geography course and learn something for a change?

You attack me in post after post while claiming I am making the thread about you.

You call me a liar for daring to tell the truth.

You accuse me of being some sort of Nazi while promoting Jews as Europeans themes ONLY found at neo Nazi and Islamist hate sites.



These does seem to be quite the pattern here, and I doubt that I am the only one seeing it.

 

[Coyote]

The topic is not about me. Start one in the FZ if you wish to get personal and I will join you.

You have called me a liar several times in this thread for telling the truth.


You seem to consider telling the truth about your pattern of behavior an attack, yet have no qualms about calling others a liar when they tell the truth.

One truth is that "Palestinians" are an intentional invention created in order to manipulate people.

Palestinians are a people. It is a shame you, Sixties and others cant see that as you apply the same tactics of disenfranchisement and delegitimization on them as the antisemites do on Jews.

You are no different then they.

Let me know when you want to duke it out in the FZ since you seem incapable of refraining from making the topic about me.

Good day

The topic is not about me. Start one in the FZ if you wish to get personal and I will join you.

You have called me a liar several times in this thread for telling the truth.


You seem to consider telling the truth about your pattern of behavior an attack, yet have no qualms about calling others a liar when they tell the truth.

One truth is that "Palestinians" are an intentional invention created in order to manipulate people.

Palestinians are a people. It is a shame you, Sixties and others cant see that as you apply the same tactics of disenfranchisement and delegitimization on them as the antisemites do on Jews.

You are no different then they.

Let me know when you want to duke it out in the FZ since you seem incapable of refraining from making the topic about me.

Good day

i have no intention of going to the basement with you, Coyote. If you cannot handle the truth without becoming this hysterical, that is your problem, not mine.

The truth of the matter, is that "Palestinians" are an intentional fabrication created as a weapon against Israel, and they have NEVER been about creating a state. If that were true, they would have been lobbying for one between 1948 and 1967. The reason they didn't is that they were Arabs who saw themselves simply as Arabs.

Of course you don’t. You would much rather derail a thread while pretending to be on topic with your throw away lines because you are far to cowardly to take to the FZ where it belongs aren’t you?

And, like the antisemites you pretend to revile, you take a page right out of their books in denying the Palestinians their identity as a people...after all, as far as you are concerned all Arab cultures are the same from Morocco to Yemen to Egypt. Why don’t you take a geography course and learn something for a change?

You attack me in post after post while claiming I am making the thread about you.

You call me a liar for daring to tell the truth.

You accuse me of being some sort of Nazi while promoting Jews as Europeans themes ONLY found at neo Nazi and Islamist hate sites.



These does seem to be quite the pattern here, and I doubt that I am the only one seeing it.

Dude, for the upteenth time, I am not going to argue this here, I said take to the FZ if you want to continue this. Stop stalking me here.

I am also going to point the rules. There is no rule against personal attacks except in Zone 1. The rules state that posts need to include content related to the discussion in addition to any flames, which you seem to know, since you have done so as have I.

So take to the FZ if you continue down this road. Period.