Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

[Shusha]

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

What is the objective standard for "they can"?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

Have we cut off aid to those three countries?

The Palestinians get FOURTEEN TIMES as much as aide as the Yemenis do per capita. And the Palestinians have FAR more resources.

Why should the Palestinians get many times the aide as a middle class country than the poorest most destitute countries get?

Seriously.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Are Canadian Children, or Mexican ones bussed into the USA for schooling?

Lol. Better to ask why Americans who can't afford health care aren't bussed to Canada.

Or Mexico, and many do go there for "cheaper" treatments.

 

[Shusha]

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

What is the objective standard for "they can"?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I am not sure you can have a completely objective standard because each situation is unique and affected by different factors.

Delineating those factors would be an excellent start. Give it a try.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

If any one of us sounds happy about any aid being cut is because, as we have said before, that aid does not end up in the hands of the population which needs it, but in the hands of the leaders who even dare to sell it to the population.

Which is a major factor as to why the Arab/Muslims countries have stopped offering aid to the people in Gaza or the PA.

 

[P F Tinmore]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?
.

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

Well... the bombs dropped on Gaza are made in the US. Missiles fired into Palestinian homes are made in the US. Bulldozers that are used to destroy Palestinian homes and farmland are made in the US. And on and on.

Don't think this goes unnoticed.

 

[Coyote]

Are Canadian Children, or Mexican ones bussed into the USA for schooling?

Lol. Better to ask why Americans who can't afford health care aren't bussed to Canada.

She said the Palestinians aren’t going to suffer, they can get an education in Israel. One of the primary things aid pays for is children’s education.

 

[Shusha]

None of us are happy to see people suffer! FFS. Is that the impression I've given over the past two years on this board?!

We only want the proper people to be responsible for, you know, THEIR people. Why is that so freaking difficult for the Palestinians?

 

[Coyote]

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

What is the objective standard for "they can"?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

Have we cut off aid to those three countries?

The Palestinians get FOURTEEN TIMES as much as aide as the Yemenis do per capita. And the Palestinians have FAR more resources.

Why should the Palestinians get many times the aide as a middle class country than the poorest most destitute countries get?

Seriously.

Why should Israel?

 

[flacaltenn]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

Your own OP article focuses almost exclusively on benefits to Gaza.. Read it again. I was wrong about USAID. The cuts are not out of the USAID foreign aid budget. They are reductions to programs that keep GAZA alive thru the UN relief agencies. It's all about pressuring HAMAS and Gaza IS currently a basket case.

This is not at all about the West Bank Palestinians. They STILL get USAID thru the PA. The PA just refuses to SHARE THAT AID with Hamas in the West Bank. Let's back up and realize what the game REALLY IS before you launch off on how this HURTS anything.

Hamas is shut off by the Palestinian Authority. You do realize that --- right? That's why the article focuses on benefits to Gaza thru the UN relief agencies.

 

[Indeependent]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?
.

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

Well... the bombs dropped on Gaza are made in the US. Missiles fired into Palestinian homes are made in the US. Bulldozers that are used to destroy Palestinian homes and farmland are made in the US. And on and on.

Don't think this goes unnoticed.

Of course it’s noticed...the entire world wants Israel to destroy Gaza or they’d get Gazans to behave.

 

[Sixties Fan]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?
.

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

Well... the bombs dropped on Gaza are made in the US. Missiles fired into Palestinian homes are made in the US. Bulldozers that are used to destroy Palestinian homes and farmland are made in the US. And on and on.

Don't think this goes unnoticed.

Also not going unnoticed:

The Made in Iran rockets, etc, etc, etc fired from Gaza into Israel.
Thousands of them for the past 13 years.

Which, by the way have destroyed quite a few buildings and killed
many Israelis and Residents with working visas.

Stop the war on Israel, going on since 1920, and no more aid, to either side will be needed.

 

[Coyote]

None of us are happy to see people suffer! FFS. Is that the impression I've given over the past two years on this board?!

We only want the proper people to be responsible for, you know, THEIR people. Why is that so freaking difficult for the Palestinians?

Then again...why is that standard not applied across the board?

No I don’t think you are happy to see people suffer but they clearly will suffer.

 

[Indeependent]

None of us are happy to see people suffer! FFS. Is that the impression I've given over the past two years on this board?!

We only want the proper people to be responsible for, you know, THEIR people. Why is that so freaking difficult for the Palestinians?

Then again...why is that standard not applied across the board?

No I don’t think you are happy to see people suffer but they clearly will suffer.

Act like an asshole and you suffer.
Happens in American slums everyday.

 

[Coyote]

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

Your own OP article focuses almost exclusively on benefits to Gaza.. Read it again. I was wrong about USAID. The cuts are not out of the USAID foreign aid budget. They are reductions to programs that keep GAZA alive thru the UN relief agencies. It's all about pressuring HAMAS and Gaza IS currently a basket case.

This is not at all about the West Bank Palestinians. They STILL get USAID thru the PA. The PA just refuses to SHARE THAT AID with Hamas in the West Bank. Let's back up and realize what the game REALLY IS before you launch off on how this HURTS anything.

Hamas is shut off by the Palestinian Authority. You do realize that --- right? That's why the article focuses on benefits to Gaza thru the UN relief agencies.

My mistake, I thought it was all the Palestinians.

But the aid cuts are to all the Palestinians.

 

[Indeependent]

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

Your own OP article focuses almost exclusively on benefits to Gaza.. Read it again. I was wrong about USAID. The cuts are not out of the USAID foreign aid budget. They are reductions to programs that keep GAZA alive thru the UN relief agencies. It's all about pressuring HAMAS and Gaza IS currently a basket case.

This is not at all about the West Bank Palestinians. They STILL get USAID thru the PA. The PA just refuses to SHARE THAT AID with Hamas in the West Bank. Let's back up and realize what the game REALLY IS before you launch off on how this HURTS anything.

Hamas is shut off by the Palestinian Authority. You do realize that --- right? That's why the article focuses on benefits to Gaza thru the UN relief agencies.

My mistake, I thought it was all the Palestinians.

But the aid cuts are to all the Palestinians.

I wonder why.
Why don’t you send them money.

 

[Coyote]

Why

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

Your own OP article focuses almost exclusively on benefits to Gaza.. Read it again. I was wrong about USAID. The cuts are not out of the USAID foreign aid budget. They are reductions to programs that keep GAZA alive thru the UN relief agencies. It's all about pressuring HAMAS and Gaza IS currently a basket case.

This is not at all about the West Bank Palestinians. They STILL get USAID thru the PA. The PA just refuses to SHARE THAT AID with Hamas in the West Bank. Let's back up and realize what the game REALLY IS before you launch off on how this HURTS anything.

Hamas is shut off by the Palestinian Authority. You do realize that --- right? That's why the article focuses on benefits to Gaza thru the UN relief agencies.

My mistake, I thought it was all the Palestinians.

But the aid cuts are to all the Palestinians.

I wonder why.
Why don’t you send them money.

Why don’t you quit trolling?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Are Canadian Children, or Mexican ones bussed into the USA for schooling?

Lol. Better to ask why Americans who can't afford health care aren't bussed to Canada.

She said the Palestinians aren’t going to suffer, they can get an education in Israel. One of the primary things aid pays for is children’s education.

Who said that the Palestinians aren't going to suffer?

The Arabs (Wealthy and poor) have been made to suffer since 1920 when Jihad Husseini chose war on the Jews, if they did not help on the way, or suffered the reaction of attempting to destroy Israel in 1948 or any successive wars the Arab leaders imposed on them.

Arab children do not come from Areas A and B into Israel for education.
It is for University students, mainly.

It is up to the Arab Israelis to make sure that their children do get an education which is not focused on destroying Israel. Which is mainly what they have always gotten, until recently in very few of the schools in Israel.

Why should the world pay citizens or residents of Israel to be taught to hate Jews and that the land is theirs, or that the country they live in should be destroyed, and they should become the way in the future to do it?

 

[Shusha]

None of us are happy to see people suffer! FFS. Is that the impression I've given over the past two years on this board?!

We only want the proper people to be responsible for, you know, THEIR people. Why is that so freaking difficult for the Palestinians?

Then again...why is that standard not applied across the board?

No I don’t think you are happy to see people suffer but they clearly will suffer.

Oh see a minute ago I thought you used the word gleeful.

Again, why can't the government of Palestine be required to provide health care to its own people? The US is. Even though people in the US suffer horrifically compared to Canadians with respect to health care.

Is it Canada's responsibility to provide health care to US citizens?

 

[flacaltenn]

From the OP cite ---

Second, U.S. assistance should be used to substantially expand trade between Palestinians and Israelis. Consider the northern West Bank city of Jenin: Israel decided 15 years ago that if it opened a crossing point so Israeli Arabs could shop in the West Bank, it would be a stabilizer, even though the Second Intifada rebellion was ongoing. That calculation was successful; increased Palestinian trade has reduced unemployment in the northern West Bank from reportedly 50 percent in 2003 to below 20 percent now.

This is a patently BAD idea as I explained above about the Pali economy being held hostage by Israel in terms of exports and other trade partners. Stupidity like this just INCREASES their captivity...

Did I ever post about "The mushroom compost dust-up"? Short version is, Pali entrepreneurs start a very aggressive mushroom culturing business. They start to succeed wildly. Israeli mushroom farmers get angry. Because the West Bank is no longer buying their mushrooms. Israel cuts off the supply of the compost that these folks were importing for their mushroom bedding on the grounds of national security.. They classify the compost as a type of fertilizer that is rationed for import to West Bank.

Composting is NOT explosive high concentration fertilizer that can be used in bombs. But this is the kind of manipulation that Israel can do BECAUSE they smother the Palestinian ability to trade wider in the region. NO plan should include making that relationship more unnatural and disturbing...

 

[Indeependent]

Why

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

Your own OP article focuses almost exclusively on benefits to Gaza.. Read it again. I was wrong about USAID. The cuts are not out of the USAID foreign aid budget. They are reductions to programs that keep GAZA alive thru the UN relief agencies. It's all about pressuring HAMAS and Gaza IS currently a basket case.

This is not at all about the West Bank Palestinians. They STILL get USAID thru the PA. The PA just refuses to SHARE THAT AID with Hamas in the West Bank. Let's back up and realize what the game REALLY IS before you launch off on how this HURTS anything.

Hamas is shut off by the Palestinian Authority. You do realize that --- right? That's why the article focuses on benefits to Gaza thru the UN relief agencies.

My mistake, I thought it was all the Palestinians.

But the aid cuts are to all the Palestinians.

I wonder why.
Why don’t you send them money.

Why don’t you quit trolling?

You are trolling.
Every Thread you create on this situation is a Troll.
You have all the facts at your fingertips but still have an overwhelming amount of pity for a group of people who promote murder on a societal basis.