Republicans..The real allies of African Americans

[Dragon]

The more you post the more you sound like all the other liberal drones on the board the facts are that all your liberal big government programs have done nothing to help the poor and Black population what helps them is less government restrictions on our capitalists system which will release our economy and help to create jobs for them. You libs and your class warfare are a joke and that’s pretty much all you got. All this big powerful government is what has created the problems we have now smaller government means all these companies wouldn't have too cozy up to the politicians for special favors, big government has created this "Crony Capitalist" system we have now and Obama just wants to add to it

Do you realize that in that fairly long paragraph, you said absolutely nothing of substance?

Not once have you responded to any argument of mine with either reason or evidence to dispute it. All you offer up in rebuttal is invective and rhetoric -- which is to say, nothing.

 

[Dragon]

Do you read? He said welfare not civil rights. The Great Society and civil rights are two totally different things.

No, they are different things but not TOTALLY different things. Both helped African Americans overcome the troubles they faced as a result of the legacy of slavery and segregation. African-Americans are disproportionately poor and hence disproportionately helped by government action to level incomes, not just welfare but also, and more importantly, support for unions and other efforts to raise wages.

There's no point in howling about this. As I said, black voters are self-willed people capable of thinking for themselves. THEY think that what the Democrats have done since the 1960s is of benefit to them, or more so than what the Republicans have done since then. You are not going to be able to reverse that reality just by posting some right-wing screed on an internet board.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Silly fool. Daveman, you are simply a silly fool. The GOP needs the black vote, and needs to reach out to blacks and their needs. To say that is not so shows your simple foolishness.

 

[JakeStarkey]

the Democrat's welfare programs have amounted to a near genocide against blacks. Did you think it was Girl Scout welfare programs that destroyed the black family, sent the men to jail, and made the children illegitimate.

Its very easy to look at the progress blacks were making before LBJ's great welfare programs and after.

Welfare makes black men go to jail? Try ridiculous conservative war on drugs laws that fill our prisons with non violent offenders

Blacks were not making progress before LBJs great society. Civil Rights laws had to be forced down peoples throats. And when the response to civil rights laws was to block the hiring of blacks, affirmative action had to be forced down peoples throats

SNIP.

Jroc does not realize the issue was not political as it was geographical in the Civil Rights Campaigns. Dems and Pubs in the North and West overwhelmingly voted for civil rights. Dems and Pubs in the South overwhelmingly voted against civil rights.

Jroc does not hesitate to lie, and like daveman, needs to be called out everytime he doe it.

 

[Jroc]

Do you read? He said welfare not civil rights. The Great Society and civil rights are two totally different things.

No, they are different things but not TOTALLY different things. Both helped African Americans overcome the troubles they faced as a result of the legacy of slavery and segregation. African-Americans are disproportionately poor and hence disproportionately helped by government action to level incomes, not just welfare but also, and more importantly, support for unions and other efforts to raise wages.

There's no point in howling about this. As I said, black voters are self-willed people capable of thinking for themselves. THEY think that what the Democrats have done since the 1960s is of benefit to them, or more so than what the Republicans have done since then. You are not going to be able to reverse that reality just by posting some right-wing screed on an internet board.

You are wrong as we can see the state of the black community as it is today. Blacks that have succeeded have done so because they work to succeed. The fact the Blacks vote for Dems doesn't mean it is good for them, as blindly voting for one party isn't good in general. And when they call black conservatives "sell outs" "uncle toms” that says a lot.

As far as your liberal bull they are mainly talking the points from liberal elitist that seek to blur the lines with demagoguery. This is what they do in liberal universities they don't teach facts what they teach has to fit into there liberal ideology most of those people have no idea what they are talking about, I do because I have lived it. I know what goes on down in inner city Detroit. You? Jake? I highly doubt it

 

[Dragon]

Here's some nice, solid evidence of how much the Republican Party has changed since the 1950s. I'm going to present links to maps of electoral college votes from 1916 on.

File:ElectoralCollege1916.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a little misleading because it was a Wilson landslide, but note that Wilson (Democratic candidate in case anyone's forgotten) won the entire South, but lost most of the upper Midwest and Northeast states, as well as one state on the West Coast (Oregon).

File:ElectoralCollege1920.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1920, the Democratic candidate won almost the entire South (except for Tennessee) and lost everywhere else. The South voted Democratic, and the Northeast, upper Midwest, and West Coast voted Republican.

File:ElectoralCollege1924.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1924 was another big GOP win, but note once more: the Democratic candidate took the whole South. Republicans were weak there, and strong in the Northeast, upper Midwest and West Coast -- exactly the opposite of what we see today.

File:ElectoralCollege1928.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1928 was a Hoover landslide, so the outcome wasn't as pure, but again note that such strength as the Democratic candidate had was in the South.

File:ElectoralCollege1932.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1932 was an even bigger landslide for Roosevelt, but note that what states Hoover did win were in the Northeast.

The same was true in 1936, when FDR won all but two states: Maine and Vermont.

File:ElectoralCollege1940.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1940, Wilkie's strength, such as it was, was in the Northeast and upper Midwest.

File:ElectoralCollege1944.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Same pattern can be observed in 1944: Republicans strong in the Northeast and upper Midwest, Democrats in the South.

File:ElectoralCollege1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1948 we see the first signs of the Democrats losing their grip on the South. Truman mostly won the South and Dewey won no Southern states, but several states were peeled off by Strom Thurmond's third-party run. My guess is this had to do with Truman integrating the armed services.

File:ElectoralCollege1952.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:ElectoralCollege1956.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eisenhower won big both those elections, but again, such strength as the Democrat had was in the South.

File:ElectoralCollege1960.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1960 departed from the pattern slightly probably because the Democrats ran a charismatic candidate from the Northeast, and again a third-party run cost Kennedy a few Southern electoral votes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElectoralCollege1964.svg

In 1964, we see again an early sign of the change. It was of course a Johnson blowout, but note that of the states taken by Goldwater all but his home state was in the South -- clearly (to me anyway) the South was punishing Johnson for the Civil Rights Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElectoralCollege1968.svg

1968 was the year of Nixon's "Southern Strategy," with the GOP for the first time deliberately trying to capitalize on Southern white voters' anger with the Democrats. It didn't altogether work -- Wallace's third party success in the South showed that while Southerners were pissed off at the Dems, they weren't ready yet to vote for the Party of Lincoln. But they would get over it.

Important point: Note that as the Republicans are gaining the South, they are also losing the Northeast and upper Midwest, their original strongholds.

1972 was such a massive tidal wave it can't tell us anything.

File:ElectoralCollege1976.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1976 was, I believe, the last gasp of the old voting pattern, and yet not quite: Carter won strongly in the Northeast and upper Midwest, as well as in the South.

1980 and 1984 were both such landslides that the pattern isn't visible.

File:ElectoralCollege1988.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1988, on the other hand, clearly shows the emerging new pattern. Note where Dukakis' strength lay: in the Northeast, the upper Midwest, and the West Coast. He lost the entire South.

File:ElectoralCollege1992.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:ElectoralCollege1996.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll stop here, because by the Clinton years the new pattern was clear. The Republicans, formerly strong in the Northeast, upper Midwest, and West Coast, have ceded all those regions to the Democrats. The South, formerly a Democratic stronghold, has been taken over by the GOP.

When we have powerful a change in voting patterns, one of two things has happened. Either the character of regional politics has dramatically shifted, or else the parties have changed.

I think the latter is the more likely explanation, don't you?

 

[daveman]

Silly fool. Daveman, you are simply a silly fool. The GOP needs the black vote, and needs to reach out to blacks and their needs. To say that is not so shows your simple foolishness.

You want the GOP to try to buy the black vote the way Dems are doing?

How about treating them with respect and dignity? The Dems sure aren't doing that.

 

[Dragon]

You want the GOP to try to buy the black vote the way Dems are doing?

How about treating them with respect and dignity? The Dems sure aren't doing that.

And that Republican strategy to win the black vote is working out -- how well?

 

[daveman]

You want the GOP to try to buy the black vote the way Dems are doing?

How about treating them with respect and dignity? The Dems sure aren't doing that.

And that Republican strategy to win the black vote is working out -- how well?

Thank you for at least acknowledging Dems buy the black vote and do not treat blacks with respect and dignity.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one has acknowledged the Dems buy the black vote anymore than GOP buys the business vote.

Stop being a fool, daveman. We need to reach out in the GOP to the blacks, and we have failed since 1980 big time.

 

[daveman]

No one has acknowledged the Dems buy the black vote anymore than GOP buys the business vote.

Stop being a fool, daveman. We need to reach out in the GOP to the blacks, and we have failed since 1980 big time.

Did you get a tingle down your leg when Dear Leader was introduced as "His Excellency" at the UN?

 

[Dragon]

Thank you for at least acknowledging Dems buy the black vote and do not treat blacks with respect and dignity.

I did no such thing; at most, I acknowledged that that's what YOU believe. Are you going to answer the question?

 

[daveman]

Thank you for at least acknowledging Dems buy the black vote and do not treat blacks with respect and dignity.

I did no such thing; at most, I acknowledged that that's what YOU believe. Are you going to answer the question?

Of course you did.

 

[Dragon]

Of course you did.

No. Are you going to answer the question?

 

[flacaltenn]

No one has acknowledged the Dems buy the black vote anymore than GOP buys the business vote.

Stop being a fool, daveman. We need to reach out in the GOP to the blacks, and we have failed since 1980 big time.

Whatzamatter Jake --- no Black business people in this country? You're right somewhat. Reaching out works both ways. And if the black voters cared as much about their economic freedoms, it would be a more equal playing field. I get kinda nauseous when a politician panders directly to me. I don't need them eating fried okra and wearing a Tenn Vols Hat to get my interest.

The idea that our social freedoms and "programs" can exist without Capitalism or a vibrant economy are kinda shakey. We need both..

 

[Dragon]

And if the black voters cared as much about their economic freedoms, it would be a more equal playing field.

They do care about their economic freedoms. They just don't buy the lie that increasing Wall Street's economic freedom will increase theirs.

 

[konradv]

No one has acknowledged the Dems buy the black vote anymore than GOP buys the business vote.

That's right. because the truth is the exact opposite, business buys the GOP vote!

 

[flacaltenn]

And if the black voters cared as much about their economic freedoms, it would be a more equal playing field.

They do care about their economic freedoms. They just don't buy the lie that increasing Wall Street's economic freedom will increase theirs.

So what do successful Blacks invest in? Greek Bonds? Turnip Greens?

There are no Home Depots in black neighborhoods? Never eat at McDonald's? Don't have wireless service? What economy in America isn't represented on Wall Street?

 

[Dragon]

So what do successful Blacks invest in? Greek Bonds?

The point, which seems to have whooshed right over your head, is that a lot of blacks AREN'T successful in the sense and to the extent where what they invest in is a primary concern, as opposed to, say, finding a job, keeping a roof over their heads, having enough to eat, getting clothes for their children . . .

The economic freedom of the rich isn't the economic freedom of the non-rich. The two are antithetical, in fact. And so it isn't THEIR economic freedom that most black voters don't care about.

 

[flacaltenn]

So what do successful Blacks invest in? Greek Bonds?

The point, which seems to have whooshed right over your head, is that a lot of blacks AREN'T successful in the sense and to the extent where what they invest in is a primary concern, as opposed to, say, finding a job, keeping a roof over their heads, having enough to eat, getting clothes for their children . . .

The economic freedom of the rich isn't the economic freedom of the non-rich. The two are antithetical, in fact. And so it isn't THEIR economic freedom that most black voters don't care about.

Good God Man -- that's dismal.. Prozac ain't enough to fix that. Who taught you that young black men/women can't become professionals and successful economically? I wasn't just jabbering about stocks and bonds when I was saying "investment".

All that has to be done is to keep them in school, get them a library card and make sure they use it 4 hours a week. I spent time with a Jamaican engineer at a party recently. He told me that almost 25% of their kids end up in professional jobs either in Europe or America. Do you think the wealth disparity in Jamaica has them conditioned to doom?
We can't even get 50% of black kids thru HIGH SCHOOL in many urban areas..

SURE -- the economy sucks right now, there are many less low-skilled jobs in America, and the pressures are worse than they have been. That's not a conspiracy against race. It's the 21st century transition to the new definition of work. The disparity gets worse for Black Americans if they don't "get on board" for the future.