Republicans pass a bill to kill our freedoms

[Conservative]

I don't see how a law like this can pass Constitutional muster. Our government does not have the right to regulate my activities on foreign soil. Our laws end at our borders.

It's not regulating acts on foreign soil. It's trying to regulate the act of conspiracy if it occurs 'within the US', regardless of where the acts being conspired would occur.

Dumb idea, will never pass.

You should pay more attention to federal laws. Not only will it pass, it will get signed, and, when challenged, it will hold up in court.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Anyway, the main contention of most people in this thread is that the proposed law would actually regulate activity on foreign soil. It doesn't. It regulates the act of conspiracy, when it takes place on US soil, even if the acts being conspired would take place on foreign soil.

 

[Greenbeard]

Blame the progressives and the courts for that one.

Indeed, when someone introduces silly legislation the first thing to do is find someone else to blame for it. Particularly when that someone is a prominent conservative and a member of the House Tea Party Caucus. Then it's definitely someone else's fault!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not regulating acts on foreign soil. It's trying to regulate the act of conspiracy if it occurs 'within the US', regardless of where the acts being conspired would occur.

Dumb idea, will never pass.

You should pay more attention to federal laws. Not only will it pass, it will get signed, and, when challenged, it will hold up in court.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Anyway, the main contention of most people in this thread is that the proposed law would actually regulate activity on foreign soil. It doesn't. It regulates the act of conspiracy, when it takes place on US soil, even if the acts being conspired would take place on foreign soil.

You really should start educating yourself about federal laws before you start thinking a law will not pass just because you think it is stupid.

What You Don

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Blame the progressives and the courts for that one.

Indeed, when someone introduces silly legislation the first thing to do is find someone else to blame for it. Particularly when that someone is a prominent conservative and a member of the House Tea Party Caucus. Then it's definitely someone else's fault!

How is me pointing out that progressives used the courts to expand the commerce clause in the pass blaming others for something someone else did? If I start writing laws that use the commerce clause to justify stupid overreach you have a point, until then you just look silly.

 

[frazzledgear]

U.S. Drug Policy Would Be Imposed Globally By New House Bill

How is this possible in America?

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON!

You have no clue what real freedom even is. There is no inherent right as an American to engage in any activity anywhere that is illegal to commit in THIS country! Are you really so stupid as to believe Americans living OUTSIDE of this country have MORE rights than Americans living IN this country? Seriously??? What you are calling "freedom" is in reality just a technical loophole of merely going to another country where THEIR citizens have that right to engage in that activity. The rights of THEIR citizens do not endow you with those "rights" as an AMERICAN though!

Hate to break the bad news to you, there are still ALL sorts of activities that are illegal to do whether you do it IN this country or in some other country and if you commit those acts ANYWHERE in the world, you as an AMERICAN will be arrested by YOUR government if you commit that crime! Apparently you don't know this -but you are ALWAYS an American citizen who is legally obligated to ALL US law no matter where you go, inside this country or in any other country. Your geographical location does NOT remove your obligation to abide by all US law! The laws of another nation do not supplant your obligation to US law as an American -the laws of another nation are added on top of the laws you are already obligated to obey where other activities that may be legal here -are not. But it does NOT work the other way around where you as an American have a right to engage in activities that are criminal acts if done IN this country -by simply going someplace where it isn't a crime! It doesn't work that way! If it is illegal for any American to do here, it means you as an American have NO right to commit that act at all -ANYWHERE. This is nothing new. Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal in this country no matter where you choose to commit it -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. If it is illegal for an American to commit that act IN this country, it is still illegal for an American to commit it ANYWHERE because it means no American has a right to do it! Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! Yet you really are stupid enough to believe otherwise!!! Wow. Government doesn't have the resources to enforce all US law for all Americans outside the country so it confines itself to a short list of activities that it has announced will always be enforced -no matter where you as an American are when you commit that crime. Because you as an AMERICAN -have no right to commit that act -period. If you have no right to commit that act HERE -then you as an AMERICAN have no inherent right to commit it anywhere! You didn't gain a new "right" to do it by merely changing your location when all other Americans still have no right to commit that crime at all! You don't have MORE rights as an American by leaving the country than an American who lives here!

NOTHING you are whining about has a FUCKING THING to do with your FREEDOMS as an American!

If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

 

[Full-Auto]

U.S. Drug Policy Would Be Imposed Globally By New House Bill

How is this possible in America?

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON!

You have no clue what real freedom even is. There is no inherent right as an American to engage in any activity anywhere that is illegal to commit in THIS country! Are you really so stupid as to believe Americans living OUTSIDE of this country have MORE rights than Americans living IN this country? Seriously??? What you are calling "freedom" is in reality just a technical loophole of merely going to another country where THEIR citizens have that right to engage in that activity. The rights of THEIR citizens do not endow you with those "rights" as an AMERICAN though!

Hate to break the bad news to you, there are still ALL sorts of activities that are illegal to do whether you do it IN this country or in some other country and if you commit those acts ANYWHERE in the world, you as an AMERICAN will be arrested by YOUR government if you commit that crime! Apparently you don't know this -but you are ALWAYS an American citizen who is legally obligated to ALL US law no matter where you go, inside this country or in any other country. Your geographical location does NOT remove your obligation to abide by all US law! The laws of another nation do not supplant your obligation to US law as an American -the laws of another nation are added on top of the laws you are already obligated to obey where other activities that may be legal here -are not. But it does NOT work the other way around where you as an American have a right to engage in activities that are criminal acts if done IN this country -by simply going someplace where it isn't a crime! It doesn't work that way! If it is illegal for any American to do here, it means you as an American have NO right to commit that act at all -ANYWHERE. This is nothing new. Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal in this country no matter where you choose to commit it -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. If it is illegal for an American to commit that act IN this country, it is still illegal for an American to commit it ANYWHERE because it means no American has a right to do it! Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! Yet you really are stupid enough to believe otherwise!!! Wow. Government doesn't have the resources to enforce all US law for all Americans outside the country so it confines itself to a short list of activities that it has announced will always be enforced -no matter where you as an American are when you commit that crime. Because you as an AMERICAN -have no right to commit that act -period. If you have no right to commit that act HERE -then you as an AMERICAN have no inherent right to commit it anywhere! You didn't gain a new "right" to do it by merely changing your location when all other Americans still have no right to commit that crime at all! You don't have MORE rights as an American by leaving the country than an American who lives here!

NOTHING you are whining about has a FUCKING THING to do with your FREEDOMS as an American!

If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

I understand what you are trying to put forth.

But it isnt legal to fight Bulls here. Should I be jailed for traveling to spain for the purpose of spectating. How about mexico to watch some cock fights?

 

[newpolitics]

U.S. Drug Policy Would Be Imposed Globally By New House Bill

How is this possible in America?

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON!

You have no clue what real freedom even is. There is no inherent right as an American to engage in any activity anywhere that is illegal to commit in THIS country! Are you really so stupid as to believe Americans living OUTSIDE of this country have MORE rights than Americans living IN this country? Seriously??? What you are calling "freedom" is in reality just a technical loophole of merely going to another country where THEIR citizens have that right to engage in that activity. The rights of THEIR citizens do not endow you with those "rights" as an AMERICAN though!

Hate to break the bad news to you, there are still ALL sorts of activities that are illegal to do whether you do it IN this country or in some other country and if you commit those acts ANYWHERE in the world, you as an AMERICAN will be arrested by YOUR government if you commit that crime! Apparently you don't know this -but you are ALWAYS an American citizen who is legally obligated to ALL US law no matter where you go, inside this country or in any other country. Your geographical location does NOT remove your obligation to abide by all US law! The laws of another nation do not supplant your obligation to US law as an American -the laws of another nation are added on top of the laws you are already obligated to obey where other activities that may be legal here -are not. But it does NOT work the other way around where you as an American have a right to engage in activities that are criminal acts if done IN this country -by simply going someplace where it isn't a crime! It doesn't work that way! If it is illegal for any American to do here, it means you as an American have NO right to commit that act at all -ANYWHERE. This is nothing new. Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal in this country no matter where you choose to commit it -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. If it is illegal for an American to commit that act IN this country, it is still illegal for an American to commit it ANYWHERE because it means no American has a right to do it! Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! Yet you really are stupid enough to believe otherwise!!! Wow. Government doesn't have the resources to enforce all US law for all Americans outside the country so it confines itself to a short list of activities that it has announced will always be enforced -no matter where you as an American are when you commit that crime. Because you as an AMERICAN -have no right to commit that act -period. If you have no right to commit that act HERE -then you as an AMERICAN have no inherent right to commit it anywhere! You didn't gain a new "right" to do it by merely changing your location when all other Americans still have no right to commit that crime at all! You don't have MORE rights as an American by leaving the country than an American who lives here!

NOTHING you are whining about has a FUCKING THING to do with your FREEDOMS as an American!

If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

I regret posting such a hostile title to this thread, because I did not want to invite such hostility as I have done here. I am sincerely concerned about the implications this bill would set forth if passed into law, that it is all. This bill exemplifies gross over-reach by our judicial system into personal matters, and the ability for this bill, if passed, to be used and abused to persecute an people on very dubious claims. It seems wholly unconstitutional to grant the government this much power, to be able to charge people with serious crimes based on such dubious claims such as 'planning,' requiring little evidence. This will open the floodgates for some serious state-control over all of our lives. This is approaching true 'police-state' proportions with this bill, and I think it should be seen as that. My title of blaming republicans is something I regret. I am, admittedly, quite angry at republicans on this board, and their continual blind hatred of the left and blaming the left for everything, but this is altogether a digression.

Frazzledgear, you're lengthy rant against me was entirely presumptuous and at no point reflected truth. It was comical to read, but thank you for you response.

 

[whitehall]

First of all the "bill" made it out of the judiciary committee. Maybe ignorant leftie drug addicts think it means the bill has become law and they will be busted in Amsterdam but it don't. Let's put our cards on the table shall we? If the bridal party wants to take the risk and smuggle marijuana into the US as a "gift" to the bride they are more stupid than pot heads usually are. Even mind numbed leftie radicals must know what the law intends. It means that Americans would be subject to US laws if they conspired with drug cartels to smuggle drugs into the US. Would it be good news to left wingers if the law stipulated certain drugs or would mind numbed anti-Americans be offended if the bridal party was busted in Amsterdam with a pound of heroin?

I think you misread that part...

"Under this bill, if a young couple plans a wedding in Amsterdam, and as part of the wedding, they plan to buy the bridal party some marijuana, they would be subject to prosecution,"

He's saying the wedding would be in Amsterdam, and the pot would be for the bridal party (he does not specify where, but one can reasonably assume from the context that this would also be in Amsterdam, where pot is legal). They are not talking about smuggling pot into the US.

In any case, he's wrong anyway.

Yeah, OK I stand corrected. The Bridal party wasn't planning to smuggle drugs, they just wanted to make the bride happy while the American couple lived overseas. A pleasant enough druggy scenario presented by Huffington. The truth is that I thought a conspiracy which was considered criminal in the US was also illegal for Americans overseas. Silly me.

 

[Luissa]

According to the OP's source, the acts would have to be carried out in the US. Since this wedding is in Amsterdam, there would be no possibility of prosecution.

No, they would not have to be carried out in the U.S. They would have to be illegal IF carried out in the U.S. Thus, buying some marijuana for the bride and groom, which is legal in Holland, would be illegal if they did it in the U.S., and so they can be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit an act in a foreign country that would be illegal in the U.S.

It's already illegal to conspire to commit an illegal act on U.S. territory; no new legislation would be required for that.

re-read this text...

Whoever, within the United States, conspires with one or more persons, or aids or abets one or more persons, regardless of where such other persons are located, to engage in conduct at any place outside the United States that would constitute a violation of this title if committed within the United States, shall be subject to the same penalties that would apply to such conduct if it were to occur within the United States.'

My initial interpretation was based on the OP article. I have re-read the actual text, and while the acts themselves do not have to happen in the US, it clearly states that the conspiring must be while you are 'within the United States'. If the conspiring takes place outside the US (as in the Amsterdam wedding example), and so do the acts, the proposal doesn't affect the situation.

The wedding story could be true if they planned with someone in another country before leaving the US. So, if a bridesmaid calls anyone in Amsterdam to find out prices or to set up a sale for when they get there, then this will apply to them.

It is a pretty stupid bill, and it seems like they want the government controlling more of people's lives. Lets hope it doesn't go far in the senate.

We also need to stop wasting money on the War on Drugs. I always thought it was interesting the drug problem in the US increased at a much higher rate once Nixon started the War on Drugs.

 

[frazzledgear]

U.S. Drug Policy Would Be Imposed Globally By New House Bill

How is this possible in America?

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON!

You have no clue what real freedom even is. There is no inherent right as an American to engage in any activity anywhere that is illegal to commit in THIS country! Are you really so stupid as to believe Americans living OUTSIDE of this country have MORE rights than Americans living IN this country? Seriously??? What you are calling "freedom" is in reality just a technical loophole of merely going to another country where THEIR citizens have that right to engage in that activity. The rights of THEIR citizens do not endow you with those "rights" as an AMERICAN though!

Hate to break the bad news to you, there are still ALL sorts of activities that are illegal to do whether you do it IN this country or in some other country and if you commit those acts ANYWHERE in the world, you as an AMERICAN will be arrested by YOUR government if you commit that crime! Apparently you don't know this -but you are ALWAYS an American citizen who is legally obligated to ALL US law no matter where you go, inside this country or in any other country. Your geographical location does NOT remove your obligation to abide by all US law! The laws of another nation do not supplant your obligation to US law as an American -the laws of another nation are added on top of the laws you are already obligated to obey where other activities that may be legal here -are not. But it does NOT work the other way around where you as an American have a right to engage in activities that are criminal acts if done IN this country -by simply going someplace where it isn't a crime! It doesn't work that way! If it is illegal for any American to do here, it means you as an American have NO right to commit that act at all -ANYWHERE. This is nothing new. Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal in this country no matter where you choose to commit it -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. If it is illegal for an American to commit that act IN this country, it is still illegal for an American to commit it ANYWHERE because it means no American has a right to do it! Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! Yet you really are stupid enough to believe otherwise!!! Wow. Government doesn't have the resources to enforce all US law for all Americans outside the country so it confines itself to a short list of activities that it has announced will always be enforced -no matter where you as an American are when you commit that crime. Because you as an AMERICAN -have no right to commit that act -period. If you have no right to commit that act HERE -then you as an AMERICAN have no inherent right to commit it anywhere! You didn't gain a new "right" to do it by merely changing your location when all other Americans still have no right to commit that crime at all! You don't have MORE rights as an American by leaving the country than an American who lives here!

NOTHING you are whining about has a FUCKING THING to do with your FREEDOMS as an American!

If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

I understand what you are trying to put forth.

But it isnt legal to fight Bulls here. Should I be jailed for traveling to spain for the purpose of spectating. How about mexico to watch some cock fights?

It isn't illegal to WATCH bull fighting in this country and you can see it on tv, rent any dvd that shows bull fighting if you want. BUT if you were part of the bull fighting TRADE -buying, selling and fighting them yourself, yes the US could choose to enforce those laws and prosecute you as an American who violated US law. Your citizenship obligates you to obey US law -not your geographic location! And that is where some people have made the error here.

Technically the US could choose to enforce any and all US laws with regard to its own citizens regardless of where they are but it isn't practical to do so. I understand the point you think you are making with the bull fighting but it isn't a valid example since watching it is not illegal at all.

You are the citizen of the US and are obligated to obey US law no matter where you are -and no matter whether the US CHOOSES to enforce a particular US law or not with regard to US citizens traveling outside the country. No country has the resources to enforce all their existing laws with regard to their own citizens who may be outside the country and much of that law is replicated in other countries anyway -so nations choose laws they want to make sure their own citizens know will be enforced no matter where they go and no matter whether it is allowed in other countries or not. Every nation has the right to do that because those are THEIR citizens even if they are visiting another nation. THEY are responsible for them -not the host nation. On top of which the laws of most countries exceed those of our own and once you are in any country you must obey any of their laws we don't have -as well as our own. But the reverse isn't true -there is NO "right" to just violate any US law just because it is legal in the country you are visiting. Which is why even in countries that allow or do not enforce child prostitution laws or sex slavery laws for example -the US will still prosecute you if you do it anyway. You have no right as an American to become part of the sex slave trade -not here, not anywhere and not even if you do it in a country that allows it or doesn't enforce laws against it. You don't have MORE rights as an American by being outside the country than you have by being IN it. EVER. Does that even make sense to you that an American living outside of his own country has more "rights" than an American living IN their country? Come on. CITIZENSHIP obligates you to obey US law regardless of where you travel -NOT your geographical location. The fact you travel to a different country then obligates you to also obey any of their laws that are even more stringent than our own but never gives you a "right" to violate US law just because a particular law may not be enforced there. It is a one way street -traveling outside the country can REDUCE your rights as an American -but it will NEVER NEVER increase them to be more than those of any American living IN the US.

You all seem to understand that you must obey any laws of a country even if they don't exist in this country -but seem to not grasp the fact that it doesn't mean you suddenly have a "right" to commit acts that are crimes in this country just because you happen to be in another one that allows those acts.

The guarantee you have the rights and freedoms spelled out in the Constitution -ends at OUR border and no other nation is obligated to uphold them -but your obligation to obey US law as an American citizen does not end at the border and that obligation remains no matter where you go. If you as an American have no right to commit a certain act in this country, it doesn't matter where you go, you still have no right to commit it AS AN AMERICAN anywhere. In order to have the right to commit that act, you would have to renounce your citizenship and become a citizen of the nation where you are allowed to commit that act. Something may not be illegal in another country but that only means THEIR citizens have a right to commit that act in their own country but it doesn't endow YOU with that right as an AMERICAN -even if they allow you to commit that act, it doesn't obligate the US government to treat it like a "right" that exists for you but not other Americans! Under NO circumstances do you have more rights by living in another country than Americans have by living in THEIR OWN.

 

[LOki]

The kitchen-sink approach to national security.

Privileges once reserved for overseas intelligence work were extended to domestic criminal investigations. There was less judicial oversight and very little transparency. The bill’s symbolism mattered also, signaling that the moral deference previously given to the Special Forces would be broadened until it encompassed much of the apparatus of the American state. Local prosecutors, military policemen, CIA lawyers—these were indispensable patriots too.

P2: Sneak-and-Peek
Delayed-notice search warrants issued under the
expanded powers of the Patriot Act, 2006–2009.​

The Patriot Act was designed to fight terror, but ... it has been used primarily to ramp up the War on Drugs.

 

[newpolitics]

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON!

You have no clue what real freedom even is. There is no inherent right as an American to engage in any activity anywhere that is illegal to commit in THIS country! Are you really so stupid as to believe Americans living OUTSIDE of this country have MORE rights than Americans living IN this country? Seriously??? What you are calling "freedom" is in reality just a technical loophole of merely going to another country where THEIR citizens have that right to engage in that activity. The rights of THEIR citizens do not endow you with those "rights" as an AMERICAN though!

Hate to break the bad news to you, there are still ALL sorts of activities that are illegal to do whether you do it IN this country or in some other country and if you commit those acts ANYWHERE in the world, you as an AMERICAN will be arrested by YOUR government if you commit that crime! Apparently you don't know this -but you are ALWAYS an American citizen who is legally obligated to ALL US law no matter where you go, inside this country or in any other country. Your geographical location does NOT remove your obligation to abide by all US law! The laws of another nation do not supplant your obligation to US law as an American -the laws of another nation are added on top of the laws you are already obligated to obey where other activities that may be legal here -are not. But it does NOT work the other way around where you as an American have a right to engage in activities that are criminal acts if done IN this country -by simply going someplace where it isn't a crime! It doesn't work that way! If it is illegal for any American to do here, it means you as an American have NO right to commit that act at all -ANYWHERE. This is nothing new. Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal in this country no matter where you choose to commit it -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. If it is illegal for an American to commit that act IN this country, it is still illegal for an American to commit it ANYWHERE because it means no American has a right to do it! Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! Yet you really are stupid enough to believe otherwise!!! Wow. Government doesn't have the resources to enforce all US law for all Americans outside the country so it confines itself to a short list of activities that it has announced will always be enforced -no matter where you as an American are when you commit that crime. Because you as an AMERICAN -have no right to commit that act -period. If you have no right to commit that act HERE -then you as an AMERICAN have no inherent right to commit it anywhere! You didn't gain a new "right" to do it by merely changing your location when all other Americans still have no right to commit that crime at all! You don't have MORE rights as an American by leaving the country than an American who lives here!

NOTHING you are whining about has a FUCKING THING to do with your FREEDOMS as an American!

If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

I understand what you are trying to put forth.

But it isnt legal to fight Bulls here. Should I be jailed for traveling to spain for the purpose of spectating. How about mexico to watch some cock fights?

It isn't illegal to WATCH bull fighting in this country and you can see it on tv, rent any dvd that shows bull fighting if you want. BUT if you were part of the bull fighting TRADE -buying, selling and fighting them yourself, yes the US could choose to enforce those laws and prosecute you as an American who violated US law. Your citizenship obligates you to obey US law -not your geographic location! And that is where some people have made the error here.

Technically the US could choose to enforce any and all US laws with regard to its own citizens regardless of where they are but it isn't practical to do so. I understand the point you think you are making with the bull fighting but it isn't a valid example since watching it is not illegal at all.

You are the citizen of the US and are obligated to obey US law no matter where you are -and no matter whether the US CHOOSES to enforce a particular US law or not with regard to US citizens traveling outside the country. No country has the resources to enforce all their existing laws with regard to their own citizens who may be outside the country and much of that law is replicated in other countries anyway -so nations choose laws they want to make sure their own citizens know will be enforced no matter where they go and no matter whether it is allowed in other countries or not. Every nation has the right to do that because those are THEIR citizens even if they are visiting another nation. THEY are responsible for them -not the host nation. On top of which the laws of most countries exceed those of our own and once you are in any country you must obey any of their laws we don't have -as well as our own. But the reverse isn't true -there is NO "right" to just violate any US law just because it is legal in the country you are visiting. Which is why even in countries that allow or do not enforce child prostitution laws or sex slavery laws for example -the US will still prosecute you if you do it anyway. You have no right as an American to become part of the sex slave trade -not here, not anywhere and not even if you do it in a country that allows it or doesn't enforce laws against it. You don't have MORE rights as an American by being outside the country than you have by being IN it. EVER. Does that even make sense to you that an American living outside of his own country has more "rights" than an American living IN their country? Come on. CITIZENSHIP obligates you to obey US law regardless of where you travel -NOT your geographical location. The fact you travel to a different country then obligates you to also obey any of their laws that are even more stringent than our own but never gives you a "right" to violate US law just because a particular law may not be enforced there. It is a one way street -traveling outside the country can REDUCE your rights as an American -but it will NEVER NEVER increase them to be more than those of any American living IN the US.

You all seem to understand that you must obey any laws of a country even if they don't exist in this country -but seem to not grasp the fact that it doesn't mean you suddenly have a "right" to commit acts that are crimes in this country just because you happen to be in another one that allows those acts.

The guarantee you have the rights and freedoms spelled out in the Constitution -ends at OUR border and no other nation is obligated to uphold them -but your obligation to obey US law as an American citizen does not end at the border and that obligation remains no matter where you go. If you as an American have no right to commit a certain act in this country, it doesn't matter where you go, you still have no right to commit it AS AN AMERICAN anywhere. In order to have the right to commit that act, you would have to renounce your citizenship and become a citizen of the nation where you are allowed to commit that act. Something may not be illegal in another country but that only means THEIR citizens have a right to commit that act in their own country but it doesn't endow YOU with that right as an AMERICAN -even if they allow you to commit that act, it doesn't obligate the US government to treat it like a "right" that exists for you but not other Americans! Under NO circumstances do you have more rights by living in another country than Americans have by living in THEIR OWN.

If I want to go Amsterdam and buy an eighth of shrooms and have sex with 8 prostitutes, that is my right, because I am in AMSTERDAM, not America. We are not held to the arbritrary American standard of law when we travel, hence, why is it called TRAVELING. Get real bub. Once you leave you these boarders, you live by the law of whatever land you are in.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

First of all the "bill" made it out of the judiciary committee. Maybe ignorant leftie drug addicts think it means the bill has become law and they will be busted in Amsterdam but it don't. Let's put our cards on the table shall we? If the bridal party wants to take the risk and smuggle marijuana into the US as a "gift" to the bride they are more stupid than pot heads usually are. Even mind numbed leftie radicals must know what the law intends. It means that Americans would be subject to US laws if they conspired with drug cartels to smuggle drugs into the US. Would it be good news to left wingers if the law stipulated certain drugs or would mind numbed anti-Americans be offended if the bridal party was busted in Amsterdam with a pound of heroin?

I think you misread that part...

"Under this bill, if a young couple plans a wedding in Amsterdam, and as part of the wedding, they plan to buy the bridal party some marijuana, they would be subject to prosecution,"

He's saying the wedding would be in Amsterdam, and the pot would be for the bridal party (he does not specify where, but one can reasonably assume from the context that this would also be in Amsterdam, where pot is legal). They are not talking about smuggling pot into the US.

In any case, he's wrong anyway.

Yeah, OK I stand corrected. The Bridal party wasn't planning to smuggle drugs, they just wanted to make the bride happy while the American couple lived overseas. A pleasant enough druggy scenario presented by Huffington. The truth is that I thought a conspiracy which was considered criminal in the US was also illegal for Americans overseas. Silly me.

Conspiracy implies an intent to commit an illegal act. If you plan to go do something that is perfectly legal it is not a conspiracy, it is a plan.

 

[yidnar]

Because idiots like you keep voting for the same people.

you know it's the House with its tea loons, right?

it won't get through the Senate.

i found the wording interesting... it's illegal to "plan or discuss" things in this country that you intend to do in another country?

it seems to deal with more than drugs...

THE TEA PARTY IS COMING FOR YOU !!!WAIT!!......WHAT WAS THAT NOISE ???OH NO THEY'RE OUTSIDE YOUR HOUSE TRYING TO GET IN !!! AAAAAAAAAAA RUN FOR YOUR LIFE !!!

 

[Full-Auto]

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON!

You have no clue what real freedom even is. There is no inherent right as an American to engage in any activity anywhere that is illegal to commit in THIS country! Are you really so stupid as to believe Americans living OUTSIDE of this country have MORE rights than Americans living IN this country? Seriously??? What you are calling "freedom" is in reality just a technical loophole of merely going to another country where THEIR citizens have that right to engage in that activity. The rights of THEIR citizens do not endow you with those "rights" as an AMERICAN though!

Hate to break the bad news to you, there are still ALL sorts of activities that are illegal to do whether you do it IN this country or in some other country and if you commit those acts ANYWHERE in the world, you as an AMERICAN will be arrested by YOUR government if you commit that crime! Apparently you don't know this -but you are ALWAYS an American citizen who is legally obligated to ALL US law no matter where you go, inside this country or in any other country. Your geographical location does NOT remove your obligation to abide by all US law! The laws of another nation do not supplant your obligation to US law as an American -the laws of another nation are added on top of the laws you are already obligated to obey where other activities that may be legal here -are not. But it does NOT work the other way around where you as an American have a right to engage in activities that are criminal acts if done IN this country -by simply going someplace where it isn't a crime! It doesn't work that way! If it is illegal for any American to do here, it means you as an American have NO right to commit that act at all -ANYWHERE. This is nothing new. Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal in this country no matter where you choose to commit it -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. If it is illegal for an American to commit that act IN this country, it is still illegal for an American to commit it ANYWHERE because it means no American has a right to do it! Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! Yet you really are stupid enough to believe otherwise!!! Wow. Government doesn't have the resources to enforce all US law for all Americans outside the country so it confines itself to a short list of activities that it has announced will always be enforced -no matter where you as an American are when you commit that crime. Because you as an AMERICAN -have no right to commit that act -period. If you have no right to commit that act HERE -then you as an AMERICAN have no inherent right to commit it anywhere! You didn't gain a new "right" to do it by merely changing your location when all other Americans still have no right to commit that crime at all! You don't have MORE rights as an American by leaving the country than an American who lives here!

NOTHING you are whining about has a FUCKING THING to do with your FREEDOMS as an American!

If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

I understand what you are trying to put forth.

But it isnt legal to fight Bulls here. Should I be jailed for traveling to spain for the purpose of spectating. How about mexico to watch some cock fights?

It isn't illegal to WATCH bull fighting in this country and you can see it on tv, rent any that shows bull fighting if you want. BUT if you were part of the bull fighting TRADE -buying, selling and fighting them yourself, yes the US could choose to enforce those laws and prosecute you as an American who violated US law. Your citizenship obligates you to obey US law -not your geographic location! And that is where some people have made the error here.

Technically the US could choose to enforce any and all US laws with regard to its own citizens regardless of where they are but it isn't practical to do so. I understand the point you think you are making with the bull fighting but it isn't a valid example since watching it is not illegal at all.

You are the citizen of the US and are obligated to obey US law no matter where you are -and no matter whether the US CHOOSES to enforce a particular US law or not with regard to US citizens traveling outside the country. No country has the resources to enforce all their existing laws with regard to their own citizens who may be outside the country and much of that law is replicated in other countries anyway -so nations choose laws they want to make sure their own citizens know will be enforced no matter where they go and no matter whether it is allowed in other countries or not. Every nation has the right to do that because those are THEIR citizens even if they are visiting another nation. THEY are responsible for them -not the host nation. On top of which the laws of most countries exceed those of our own and once you are in any country you must obey any of their laws we don't have -as well as our own. But the reverse isn't true -there is NO "right" to just violate any US law just because it is legal in the country you are visiting. Which is why even in countries that allow or do not enforce child prostitution laws or sex slavery laws for example -the US will still prosecute you if you do it anyway. You have no right as an American to become part of the sex slave trade -not here, not anywhere and not even if you do it in a country that allows it or doesn't enforce laws against it. You don't have MORE rights as an American by being outside the country than you have by being IN it. EVER. Does that even make sense to you that an American living outside of his own country has more "rights" than an American living IN their country? Come on. CITIZENSHIP obligates you to obey US law regardless of where you travel -NOT your geographical location. The fact you travel to a different country then obligates you to also obey any of their laws that are even more stringent than our own but never gives you a "right" to violate US law just because a particular law may not be enforced there. It is a one way street -traveling outside the country can REDUCE your rights as an American -but it will NEVER NEVER increase them to be more than those of any American living IN the US.

You all seem to understand that you must obey any laws of a country even if they don't exist in this country -but seem to not grasp the fact that it doesn't mean you suddenly have a "right" to commit acts that are crimes in this country just because you happen to be in another one that allows those acts.

The guarantee you have the rights and freedoms spelled out in the Constitution -ends at OUR border and no other nation is obligated to uphold them -but your obligation to obey US law as an American citizen does not end at the border and that obligation remains no matter where you go. If you as an American have no right to commit a certain act in this country, it doesn't matter where you go, you still have no right to commit it AS AN AMERICAN anywhere. In order to have the right to commit that act, you would have to renounce your citizenship and become a citizen of the nation where you are allowed to commit that act. Something may not be illegal in another country but that only means THEIR citizens have a right to commit that act in their own country but it doesn't endow YOU with that right as an AMERICAN -even if they allow you to commit that act, it doesn't obligate the US government to treat it like a "right" that exists for you but not other Americans! Under NO circumstances do you have more rights by living in another country than Americans have by living in THEIR OWN.

Can it safely be said you are a big government supporter. A government that should be able to guide your every move regardless of where you are in the world? Do those other nations give up their rights of tourism because our government can encroach with the commerce clause. Whats next surround them with troops? Fear an island off of our coast? What?

 

[Conservative]

You should pay more attention to federal laws. Not only will it pass, it will get signed, and, when challenged, it will hold up in court.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Anyway, the main contention of most people in this thread is that the proposed law would actually regulate activity on foreign soil. It doesn't. It regulates the act of conspiracy, when it takes place on US soil, even if the acts being conspired would take place on foreign soil.

You really should start educating yourself about federal laws before you start thinking a law will not pass just because you think it is stupid.

What You Don

I did NOT say it would not pass, simply because I think it's stupid. Perhaps you should actually READ posts before commenting on them, dipshit.

I said I thought it was stupid, and I also said it would not pass.

 

[Conservative]

No, they would not have to be carried out in the U.S. They would have to be illegal IF carried out in the U.S. Thus, buying some marijuana for the bride and groom, which is legal in Holland, would be illegal if they did it in the U.S., and so they can be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit an act in a foreign country that would be illegal in the U.S.

It's already illegal to conspire to commit an illegal act on U.S. territory; no new legislation would be required for that.

re-read this text...

Whoever, within the United States, conspires with one or more persons, or aids or abets one or more persons, regardless of where such other persons are located, to engage in conduct at any place outside the United States that would constitute a violation of this title if committed within the United States, shall be subject to the same penalties that would apply to such conduct if it were to occur within the United States.'

My initial interpretation was based on the OP article. I have re-read the actual text, and while the acts themselves do not have to happen in the US, it clearly states that the conspiring must be while you are 'within the United States'. If the conspiring takes place outside the US (as in the Amsterdam wedding example), and so do the acts, the proposal doesn't affect the situation.

The wedding story could be true if they planned with someone in another country before leaving the US. So, if a bridesmaid calls anyone in Amsterdam to find out prices or to set up a sale for when they get there, then this will apply to them.

It is a pretty stupid bill, and it seems like they want the government controlling more of people's lives. Lets hope it doesn't go far in the senate.

We also need to stop wasting money on the War on Drugs. I always thought it was interesting the drug problem in the US increased at a much higher rate once Nixon started the War on Drugs.

I was going strictly by the example given, as given...no additions or suppositions of my own, and by the exact text of the proposed law. You're adding more into the wedding story, using supposition, than was actually used in the given example.

 

[frazzledgear]

U.S. Drug Policy Would Be Imposed Globally By New House Bill

How is this possible in America?

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON! ..........................

...............Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal no matter where their own citizen may choose to commit that act -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. ........Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! ...........

.........If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

I regret posting such a hostile title to this thread, because I did not want to invite such hostility as I have done here. I am sincerely concerned about the implications this bill would set forth if passed into law, that it is all. This bill exemplifies gross over-reach by our judicial system into personal matters, and the ability for this bill, if passed, to be used and abused to persecute an people on very dubious claims. It seems wholly unconstitutional to grant the government this much power, to be able to charge people with serious crimes based on such dubious claims such as 'planning,' requiring little evidence. This will open the floodgates for some serious state-control over all of our lives. This is approaching true 'police-state' proportions with this bill, and I think it should be seen as that. My title of blaming republicans is something I regret. I am, admittedly, quite angry at republicans on this board, and their continual blind hatred of the left and blaming the left for everything, but this is altogether a digression.

Frazzledgear, you're lengthy rant against me was entirely presumptuous and at no point reflected truth. It was comical to read, but thank you for you response.

NO IT DOESN'T reflect ANY kind of judicial overreach of any kind -which is why you got that "rant" from me! I don't tolerate ignorance lightly any more because in this day and age there is NO excuse for it except by CHOICE. No one in their right mind would allow the chosen ignorance of someone to dictate ANYTHING.

First of all this was a bill put forth by the legislative branch -not the judicial branch so it in no way represents "judicial overreach". It is just the same reiteration of the fact all US citizens are obligated to obey US law and TRAVEL doesn't relieve ANY citizen of that fact! This bill is a warning that simply traveling to a country where such activity may be legal doesn't endow you with a new "right" to commit certain crimes which will still be enforced no matter where you are when you commit them! And even if some other country does not. Do you seriously think this only happens with Americans or what? You think the US shouldn't be able to enforce its own laws with regard to endangered species? Child prostitution? Human smuggling? Arms dealing? Organized crime with regard to drugs or sex slave trade? REALLY? As I said, I can't believe people are so poorly educated as refuse comprehending this one. The US government is obligated to make sure you know that certain acts and activities in THIS country can result in your imprisonment if you do them in other countries -and likewise is obligated to make sure you understand your own government will prosecute you for certain crimes even if other countries do not! Because under US law the commission of that act by an American is a CRIME! And it is still a crime under OUR laws even if you commit it in a country that allows it! Among those acts that are still crimes no matter where you are when you choose to commit them - are child prostitution, sex slavery, kidnapping and murder, plots against the US, violation of ANY US laws regarding endangered species which is actually dozens of individual laws, arms dealing, racketeering, terrorism and any organized criminal activity involving any of these as well as those involving DRUGS. This just makes sure AMERICANS know and understand committing these acts where it may be allowed will NOT save them from prosecution because it is ALWAYS a CRIME under US law and all Americans are obligated to obey US law. No matter where they are! TRAVEL doesn't relieve ANY American from obeying US law. PERIOD. You don't gain "rights" that are denied to Americans here at home by simply traveling somewhere else -and I am truly ASTOUNDED we have MORONS among us who don't get that. Your rights will frequently be restricted while traveling abroad but NEVER EVER expanded beyond those of Americans at home.

None of what you are bitching about represents any kind of infringement of ANY "right" or "freedom" because as a US citizen, you never had the "right" to commit that crime in the first place! Again -TRAVEL doesn't endow you with ANY rights that are denied to Americans inside their own country! Just because some other nation still exists as a barbaric nation and may allow all sorts of criminal enterprises that are illegal everywhere else -doesn't mean the US can't enforce its own laws with regard to its OWN citizens. It can't enforce those laws against non-citizens who commit those crimes in another country, but all countries can, will AND DO punish their own citizens who violate the major laws of their own nation while traveling. Your citizenship obligates you to obey US law, not your location and even if you don't get that one, every nation on the planet does when it comes to their own citizens as well.

Any intelligent person would make sure they not only knew what laws applied to them in the country they intend to visit -but which of our own laws will follow them everywhere as well even if those activities are not illegal in the country they intend to visit. And that list includes sex slavery, child prostitution, illegal arms dealing, plots against the US, terrorism as well as the organized criminal activity of any of these as well as organized criminal activity involving DRUGS! Duh. Why this would amaze and astound you in a day and age where drug cartels are essentially holding the law abiding citizens of Mexico hostage and their violent crimes are spilling across the border into our own country is beyond me!

The laws of other nations are typically more strict than our own so the greater concern is being ignorant about the existence of foreign laws forbidding acts that are legal here but crimes in those countries -so that some people do not appreciate the fact our own laws follow them too. Going to some backwater country still living in the Dark Ages that doesn't enforce child prostitution laws or sex slave laws, illegal arms dealings, organized criminal activity involving slavery, sex trade, arms and yes, DRUGS -will not save you from being prosecuted for it here because it violates OUR laws and as a citizen of THIS country, it is a crime you have NO right to commit anywhere at all. Deal with it.

 

[Full-Auto]

I'm still trying to grasp your title of this thread. You actually think your FREEDOM mean "a right to plot and conspire to engage in activities in another country when those activities are illegal in your own country"? Seriously? I'm sorry -but exactly where is your "freedom" in that and exactly where is that found in the Bill of Rights? Looking for technical loopholes for the purpose of engaging in activities that are illegal in your country has NOTHING to do with FREEDOM you MORON! ..........................

...............Technically government could choose to enforce EVERY SINGLE US law regarding ANY activity that is illegal no matter where their own citizen may choose to commit that act -because there is no such thing as a "right" for an AMERICAN to avoid US law by simply going to a country where that illegal activity is allowed. ........Americans living outside of the country do not EVER -as in NEVER -have greater or more rights than those living IN this country! ...........

.........If you seriously want to avoid being prosecuted by your government for committing what are crimes under US law even if you happen to go to another country, there is one surefire way to do that. RENOUNCE YOUR US CITIZENSHIP. You always have the right to do that! And I heartily recommend it for anyone STUPID enough to believe Americans living outside the country somehow have greater and more rights than those living IN the country! I am still stunned by the level of your idiocy -so surely some other delightful backwater country still living in the Dark Ages is more deserving of you! And don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Were you also under the impression that simply living in a country that either refuses to enact or enforce such laws means you have a "right" to engage in the sex slave trade? Child prostitution? Illegal arms dealing? Plots against the US? Organized criminal activity regarding the drug trade has been added to that list. These are all criminal activities no American living ANYWHERE has a right to do and never did. PERIOD. Whether they are in this country or a different one. Even if the citizens of some other country have a right to do them -you as an AMERICAN -do not EVER have a right to commit those crimes. Conspiring to engage in criminal activity with regard to the drug trade is NOT your right as an American -and simply being in a country where their citizens have a right to commit that act doesn't change anything. It still isn't a right you as an AMERICAN have and this is merely announcing this is a law the US WILL continue to enforce with regard to its own citizens -even if you try to avoid enforcement by going to some other country so you could commit what is still a crime for ANY American to do!

But your stupid whining ABSOLUTELY highlights the FACT the useful idiots of the left really have NO clue what freedom even is. Which begs the question -when you have NO clue what your REAL RIGHTS and REAL FREEDOMS even are -then it sure makes it easier for those intent on stripping you of them, doesn't it? And it means you are far less likely to even notice when your REAL rights disappear. Those who seek the destruction of your REAL rights heartily approve of MORONS like you who make it so obvious they don't know what their real rights are and no clue what real freedom even means! Makes their job a hell of a lot easier -and hate to break more bad news. But it is those on the left who are the biggest threat to your REAL rights and freedoms -none of which involve a "right" to engage in criminal activity by merely leaving the country. If you don't know why the real threat to your true rights and freedoms come from the left -it only highlights the glaring lack in your public school education. A public school education that is by no coincidence, largely determined and controlled by the left.

I regret posting such a hostile title to this thread, because I did not want to invite such hostility as I have done here. I am sincerely concerned about the implications this bill would set forth if passed into law, that it is all. This bill exemplifies gross over-reach by our judicial system into personal matters, and the ability for this bill, if passed, to be used and abused to persecute an people on very dubious claims. It seems wholly unconstitutional to grant the government this much power, to be able to charge people with serious crimes based on such dubious claims such as 'planning,' requiring little evidence. This will open the floodgates for some serious state-control over all of our lives. This is approaching true 'police-state' proportions with this bill, and I think it should be seen as that. My title of blaming republicans is something I regret. I am, admittedly, quite angry at republicans on this board, and their continual blind hatred of the left and blaming the left for everything, but this is altogether a digression.

Frazzledgear, you're lengthy rant against me was entirely presumptuous and at no point reflected truth. It was comical to read, but thank you for you response.

NO IT DOESN'T reflect ANY kind of judicial overreach of any kind -which is why you got that "rant" from me! I don't tolerate ignorance lightly any more because in this day and age there is NO excuse for it except by CHOICE. No one in their right mind would allow the chosen ignorance of someone to dictate ANYTHING.

First of all this was a bill put forth by the legislative branch -not the judicial branch so it in no way represents "judicial overreach". It is just the same reiteration of the fact all US citizens are obligated to obey US law and TRAVEL doesn't relieve ANY citizen of that fact! This bill is a warning that simply traveling to a country where such activity may be legal doesn't endow you with a new "right" to commit certain crimes which will still be enforced no matter where you are when you commit them! And even if some other country does not. Do you seriously think this only happens with Americans or what? You think the US shouldn't be able to enforce its own laws with regard to endangered species? Child prostitution? Human smuggling? Arms dealing? Organized crime with regard to drugs or sex slave trade? REALLY? As I said, I can't believe people are so poorly educated as refuse comprehending this one. The US government is obligated to make sure you know that certain acts and activities in THIS country can result in your imprisonment if you do them in other countries -and likewise is obligated to make sure you understand your own government will prosecute you for certain crimes even if other countries do not! Because under US law the commission of that act by an American is a CRIME! And it is still a crime under OUR laws even if you commit it in a country that allows it! Among those acts that are still crimes no matter where you are when you choose to commit them - are child prostitution, sex slavery, kidnapping and murder, plots against the US, violation of ANY US laws regarding endangered species which is actually dozens of individual laws, arms dealing, racketeering, terrorism and any organized criminal activity involving any of these as well as those involving DRUGS. This just makes sure AMERICANS know and understand committing these acts where it may be allowed will NOT save them from prosecution because it is ALWAYS a CRIME under US law and all Americans are obligated to obey US law. No matter where they are! TRAVEL doesn't relieve ANY American from obeying US law. PERIOD. You don't gain "rights" that are denied to Americans here at home by simply traveling somewhere else -and I am truly ASTOUNDED we have MORONS among us who don't get that. Your rights will frequently be restricted while traveling abroad but NEVER EVER expanded beyond those of Americans at home.

None of what you are bitching about represents any kind of infringement of ANY "right" or "freedom" because as a US citizen, you never had the "right" to commit that crime in the first place! Again -TRAVEL doesn't endow you with ANY rights that are denied to Americans inside their own country! Just because some other nation still exists as a barbaric nation and may allow all sorts of criminal enterprises that are illegal everywhere else -doesn't mean the US can't enforce its own laws with regard to its OWN citizens. It can't enforce those laws against non-citizens who commit those crimes in another country, but all countries can, will AND DO punish their own citizens who violate the major laws of their own nation while traveling. Your citizenship obligates you to obey US law, not your location and even if you don't get that one, every nation on the planet does when it comes to their own citizens as well.

Any intelligent person would make sure they not only knew what laws applied to them in the country they intend to visit -but which of our own laws will follow them everywhere as well even if those activities are not illegal in the country they intend to visit. And that list includes sex slavery, child prostitution, illegal arms dealing, plots against the US, terrorism as well as the organized criminal activity of any of these as well as organized criminal activity involving DRUGS! Duh. Why this would amaze and astound you in a day and age where drug cartels are essentially holding the law abiding citizens of Mexico hostage and their violent crimes are spilling across the border into our own country is beyond me!

The laws of other nations are typically more strict than our own so the greater concern is being ignorant about the existence of foreign laws forbidding acts that are legal here but crimes in those countries -so that some people do not appreciate the fact our own laws follow them too. Going to some backwater country still living in the Dark Ages that doesn't enforce child prostitution laws or sex slave laws, illegal arms dealings, organized criminal activity involving slavery, sex trade, arms and yes, DRUGS -will not save you from being prosecuted for it here because it violates OUR laws and as a citizen of THIS country, it is a crime you have NO right to commit anywhere at all. Deal with it.

What are the new uniforms going to look like? Will you stay with the full length boot?

 

[freedombecki]

U.S. Drug Policy Would Be Imposed Globally By New House Bill

How is this possible in America?

That is answered in your link, and I quote:

The law is a reaction to a 2007 case in which the 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals threw out the convictions of two men who planned the transfer of cocaine from a Colombian drug cartel to a Saudi prince for distribution in Europe. Though the men planned the transaction from Miami, the court found that because the cocaine never reached the U.S. and was never intended to reach the U.S., the men hadn't committed any crime against the United States.

Do you always ask questions to which you already know the answer?