Republican ? Democrat ? American ?

[Skylar]

And government didn't. That was the people's job, not government's.

The idea that government should take care of the people, is distinctly Un-American. And it is wrong. Because it simply doesn't work. It fails every time it's tried.

Lets explore this a little. What has failed every time its tried, specifically? Something like universal healthcare has failed ever time? Social security has failed every single time? Public education has failed every single time? Anti-discrimination laws have failed every single time? State funded higher education has failed every single time? Environmental regulation has failed every single time?

Because there are nations all over the planet using those policies to varying degrees. Some far more than we are. And they're still here. Some are quite prosperous. So how do you reconcile the existence of what you insist can't exist? The success of what you insist has to fail?

There's genuine room for disagreement, on degree, on specific policy. As reality isn't a binary switch, where its either lassie faire capitalism or collapse. There's plenty of middle ground.

And that is where I think where many people have lost the ability to perceive. They get caught up in oversimplification, in bumpersticker slogans, in polarization. Where anything but what they believe must be wrong, ignorant and dangerous. And there seems to be a far higher priority placed on ideological purity over practical, pragmatic results. Which is fucking stupid in my opinion. There's plenty of room in between the polar extremes. In fact, that's where almost everyone lives.

The ideologically 'pure' are some lonely motherfuckers.

There are a growing number of people who don't see that. But their ignorance and misguided notions don't make it right. They push the notion of robbing Peter to pay Paul, by pointing out how much good it does for Paul. While glossing over the fact that it's grossly unfair to Peter, and eventually persuades Peter to stop producing or accumulating any wealth. And so the whole country slides downhill as a result.

That sounds like the last chapter of Atlas Shrugged. Where all the rich people moved to Colorado because they were taxed and regulated. But that's fantasy. We've had far higher taxes in the past than we do now and we did just fine. The idea unless we drop tax rates the wealthy and successful are just going to stop working is beyond silly. It hasn't happened. Even at a much higher tax rate, there are still enormous rewards to be had from working, inventing, building and growing. And people are going to keep doing it.

The entire premise of your argument is literally nonsense.

Those people will also scream how much it would hurt Paul if the program were stopped. While still ignoring the fact that it's far more unfair to Peter to keep it going. Or they will say Peter deserved to be robbed for some reason. They are lying.

Taxation isn't theft. We all have to pay for programs we don't like. You're outraged by say, school lunches for children? Someone else is pissed about military spending. Or highway block grants. Or subsidization of corporation farms. The idea that unless you agree with every policy, you're being 'robbed' is blithering nonsense.

The fundamental problem on both the left and right in regards to government spending is this: we want more than we're willing to pay for. And we punish politicians who either take away the services we demand, or insist on raising taxes to match their actual price tag. Leaving deficit spending the only politically viable way for them to move forward.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Refusing to vote does nothing. Quite literally. Laws still get made. Policy is still enacted. You just don't get a say in it.

It's not so much a refusal as an admission that it's not something that's happened yet. I was in tech school during the presidential election and got my absentee ballot sometime around mid-January. I'm kind of on the other side of the continent from my home state and fuck becoming a California resident. Those are just my requirements from a politician were I to get the opportunity vote in an election: regardless of party, they'd have to be pro-life and pro-US, preferably without any divisions in their loyalty (whether to a foreign state or an ideology). Just those two hard requirements alone still cut much of the viable candidates I'd ever get to choose from. The guy calling out the Creationists for trying to infiltrate the schools to still probably busts his ass to keep the abortion clinics killing my generation and our children open for business. The guy condemning Russia for taking over all the land they owned as the USSR would still be willing to take orders from Israel to nuke Tehran for religious and/or tribal reasons.

*As in actually pro-life - being anti-abortion, anti-capital punishment, anti-unnecessary war, supportive of welfare and free healthcare for people who can't afford it; their overall platform would have to be consistent with the idea that, hey, maybe we should go out of our way just a little bit if it means not depriving other living things of their inherent right to continue existing.

 

[Skylar]

Refusing to vote does nothing. Quite literally. Laws still get made. Policy is still enacted. You just don't get a say in it.

It's not so much a refusal as an admission that it's not something that's happened yet. I was in tech school during the presidential election and got my absentee ballot sometime around mid-January. I'm kind of on the other side of the continent from my home state and fuck becoming a California resident. Those are just my requirements from a politician were I to get the opportunity vote in an election: regardless of party, they'd have to be pro-life and pro-US, preferably without any divisions in their loyalty (whether to a foreign state or an ideology). Just those two hard requirements alone still cut much of the viable candidates I'd ever get to choose from. The guy calling out the Creationists for trying to infiltrate the schools to still probably busts his ass to keep the abortion clinics killing my generation and our children open for business. The guy condemning Russia for taking over all the land they owned as the USSR would still be willing to take orders from Israel to nuke Tehran for religious and/or tribal reasons.

*As in actually pro-life - being anti-abortion, anti-capital punishment, anti-unnecessary war, supportive of welfare and free healthcare for people who can't afford it; their overall platform would have to be consistent with the idea that, hey, maybe we should go out of our way just a little bit if it means not depriving other living things of their inherent right to continue existing.

Rephrasing my post slightly to match your circumstances doesn't change its accuracy:

Failing to vote does nothing. Quite literally. Laws still get made. Policy is still enacted. You just don't get a say in it.

 

[Iceweasel]

Your vote is important, as well as the future of your children and grand children. How will you vote? AMERICAN?

I've voting Republican. No Democrat for major office has any where near my values. Libertarians serve only to give the opposite side the votes, a sign of mental illness.

a sign of mental illness
voting for either democrats or republicans.....yep....

LOL, throwing your vote away makes more sense to you.

 

[FJO]

I don't vote party, I vote for who will actually right the wrong that the middle class has been through the last 3-4 decades.

Only the middle class? So you don't care if you screw everybody else?

Or have you convinced yourself that everybody else deserved the screwing you give them?

Please tell me who has been screwed over more than the working middle class.

Whites.
Men.
Christians.
White men.
White Christians.

Regardless of economical class.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Your vote is important, as well as the future of your children and grand children. How will you vote? AMERICAN?

I've voting Republican. No Democrat for major office has any where near my values. Libertarians serve only to give the opposite side the votes, a sign of mental illness.

a sign of mental illness
voting for either democrats or republicans.....yep....

LOL, throwing your vote away makes more sense to you.

You're throwing your vote away if you vote for the ones that the rich, the powerful, and the influential place on the ballots. The past 50 plus years prove that point. When you vote for them, you're aiding and abetting the very ones hell-bent on the further destruction of this once great nation.

 

[Iceweasel]

You're throwing your vote away if you vote for the ones that the rich, the powerful, and the influential place on the ballots. The past 50 plus years prove that point. When you vote for them, you're aiding and abetting the very ones hell-bent on the further destruction of this once great nation.

I don't live in a ideologically pure universe. All I can do is vote for someone that can win that represents my views better than any other. The pure throw their votes away voting for some hard ass that can't win anything more than dog catcher, empowering the other side, so they can sit on their moral high ground and bitch like school girls.

 

[kiwiman127]

I don't vote party, I vote for who will actually right the wrong that the middle class has been through the last 3-4 decades.

Only the middle class? So you don't care if you screw everybody else?

Or have you convinced yourself that everybody else deserved the screwing you give them?

Please tell me who has been screwed over more than the working middle class.

Whites.
Men.
Christians.
White men.
White Christians.

Regardless of economical class.

Really?
Please explain why you came up with such an answer.
Thanks.

 

[Sonny Clark]

You're throwing your vote away if you vote for the ones that the rich, the powerful, and the influential place on the ballots. The past 50 plus years prove that point. When you vote for them, you're aiding and abetting the very ones hell-bent on the further destruction of this once great nation.

I don't live in a ideologically pure universe. All I can do is vote for someone that can win that represents my views better than any other. The pure throw their votes away voting for some hard ass that can't win anything more than dog catcher, empowering the other side, so they can sit on their moral high ground and bitch like school girls.

So, what has your vote accomplished over the past 50 plus years? Do you feel good about voting for the crooks that have sold us out? Remember, campaign talk is nothing more than "Dr. Feelgood" speeches. Once elected to office, professional politicians exert their will, and not the will of the people. By the time they reach office, they owe many favors, and they pay back those favors. Honesty and politics mix like water and oil. Professional politicians are all about egos, self-service, power, greed, and climbing the political ladder at all cost. NOTE: Look at the sad shameful state this once great nation is presently in. What have voters accomplished by playing their ( politicians ) game?

 

[Iceweasel]

You're throwing your vote away if you vote for the ones that the rich, the powerful, and the influential place on the ballots. The past 50 plus years prove that point. When you vote for them, you're aiding and abetting the very ones hell-bent on the further destruction of this once great nation.

I don't live in a ideologically pure universe. All I can do is vote for someone that can win that represents my views better than any other. The pure throw their votes away voting for some hard ass that can't win anything more than dog catcher, empowering the other side, so they can sit on their moral high ground and bitch like school girls.

So, what has your vote accomplished over the past 50 plus years? Do you feel good about voting for the crooks that have sold us out? Remember, campaign talk is nothing more than "Dr. Feelgood" speeches. Once elected to office, professional politicians exert their will, and not the will of the people. By the time they reach office, they owe many favors, and they pay back those favors. Honesty and politics mix like water and oil. Professional politicians are all about egos, self-service, power, greed, and climbing the political ladder at all cost. NOTE: Look at the sad shameful state this once great nation is presently in. What have voters accomplished by playing their ( politicians ) game?

We are in this mess because too many people voted for liberals.

 

[Sonny Clark]

You're throwing your vote away if you vote for the ones that the rich, the powerful, and the influential place on the ballots. The past 50 plus years prove that point. When you vote for them, you're aiding and abetting the very ones hell-bent on the further destruction of this once great nation.

I don't live in a ideologically pure universe. All I can do is vote for someone that can win that represents my views better than any other. The pure throw their votes away voting for some hard ass that can't win anything more than dog catcher, empowering the other side, so they can sit on their moral high ground and bitch like school girls.

So, what has your vote accomplished over the past 50 plus years? Do you feel good about voting for the crooks that have sold us out? Remember, campaign talk is nothing more than "Dr. Feelgood" speeches. Once elected to office, professional politicians exert their will, and not the will of the people. By the time they reach office, they owe many favors, and they pay back those favors. Honesty and politics mix like water and oil. Professional politicians are all about egos, self-service, power, greed, and climbing the political ladder at all cost. NOTE: Look at the sad shameful state this once great nation is presently in. What have voters accomplished by playing their ( politicians ) game?

We are in this mess because too many people voted for liberals.

I disagree, We're in this mess because people voted for and elected professional politicians to run this once great nation. We're in this mess because voters swallowed hook, line, and sinker, every word spewed from the mouths of those hell-bent on our further socioeconomic destruction. The proof is on Main Street America, and in daily headlines.

 

[Iceweasel]

I disagree, We're in this mess because people voted for and elected professional politicians to run this once great nation. We're in this mess because voters swallowed hook, line, and sinker, every word spewed from the mouths of those hell-bent on our further socioeconomic destruction. The proof is on Main Street America, and in daily headlines.

Politicians are the ones running for office. If you aren't voting for someone that can actually win then you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[Dot Com]

Parties are just a diversion to obscure who is reallt calling the shots. They are simply two sides of the same coin. Thats why I refuse to vote for either of them. George Washington had it right. And its Washington Airport not Reagan Airport

 

[Sonny Clark]

I disagree, We're in this mess because people voted for and elected professional politicians to run this once great nation. We're in this mess because voters swallowed hook, line, and sinker, every word spewed from the mouths of those hell-bent on our further socioeconomic destruction. The proof is on Main Street America, and in daily headlines.

Politicians are the ones running for office. If you aren't voting for someone that can actually win then you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

A matter of opinion. I see it the other way around. I see it as those that voter for the ones that the rich, the powerful, and the influential place on the ballots are the problem. How can I be the problem when I'm not the one aiding and abetting the crooks that make up "The Washington Brotherhood"? I haven't had a hand in encouraging "The Selling of America". How can I be blamed for the mess when I refused to take part in the game?

 

[kiwiman127]

I disagree, We're in this mess because people voted for and elected professional politicians to run this once great nation. We're in this mess because voters swallowed hook, line, and sinker, every word spewed from the mouths of those hell-bent on our further socioeconomic destruction. The proof is on Main Street America, and in daily headlines.

Politicians are the ones running for office. If you aren't voting for someone that can actually win then you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

"you aren't voting for someone that can actually win then you are not part of the solution"
The solution is getting qualified people to run for office that have something called ethics.
All we get from the two parties are professional politicians who spend a majority of their time in office, raising campaign funds. That is the most consuming part of their job. When we talk about campaign funds, we are leaving out the largest segment of the American public out because that's the group who don't have expendable income to throw at politicians.
So because they don't throw money at the professional politicians their voices aren't heard and or listened to. The politicians use polls to guide them through the re-election process so they can act like they are in touch.
The working American public has lost it's voice because no one is listening. A good example is raising the minimum wage. Well over 70% of the people in every single poll support it, but the politicians biggest financial backers are against it. We all know the result of that set up. Money shouts down voices.
Why in the hell is the voter at fault? It's the fucking system set up by the sleazeball politicians in the first place.
Get Big Money out of politics and we will get a much more representative government as intended by our Founding Fathers.

 

[Iceweasel]

I disagree, We're in this mess because people voted for and elected professional politicians to run this once great nation. We're in this mess because voters swallowed hook, line, and sinker, every word spewed from the mouths of those hell-bent on our further socioeconomic destruction. The proof is on Main Street America, and in daily headlines.

Politicians are the ones running for office. If you aren't voting for someone that can actually win then you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

A matter of opinion. I see it the other way around. I see it as those that voter for the ones that the rich, the powerful, and the influential place on the ballots are the problem. How can I be the problem when I'm not the one aiding and abetting the crooks that make up "The Washington Brotherhood"? I haven't had a hand in encouraging "The Selling of America". How can I be blamed for the mess when I refused to take part in the game?

Not everybody shares your childish worldview of politicians.

 

[Iceweasel]

"you aren't voting for someone that can actually win then you are not part of the solution"

The solution is getting qualified people to run for office that have something called ethics.
All we get from the two parties are professional politicians who spend a majority of their time in office, raising campaign funds.

No, that's a lie. Many run with little to no experience and many do good work. Sell your shit to some grade schooler.

That is the most consuming part of their job. When we talk about campaign funds, we are leaving out the largest segment of the American public out because that's the group who don't have expendable income to throw at politicians.
So because they don't throw money at the professional politicians their voices aren't heard and or listened to. The politicians use polls to guide them through the re-election process so they can act like they are in touch.
The working American public has lost it's voice because no one is listening. A good example is raising the minimum wage. Well over 70% of the people in every single poll support it, but the politicians biggest financial backers are against it. We all know the result of that set up. Money shouts down voices.
Why in the hell is the voter at fault? It's the fucking system set up by the sleazeball politicians in the first place.
Get Big Money out of politics and we will get a much more representative government as intended by our Founding Fathers.

LOL, the founders never envisioned a national minimum wage. FAIL!

 

[kaz]

[ This is a piece that I wrote on 6/11/2005. It still remains true today, especially considering the upcoming elections in 2016. ( edited version ) ]


REPUBLICAN ? DEMOCRAT ? AMERICAN ?


Political affiliation and personal preference guide voters when choosing our policy makers. The right to vote, and have that vote counted, is one of the most important privileges of a free society. Way too often in America, citizens vote along party lines without actually looking at which candidate has the best plan. If someone has voted Republican all their lives, they usually vote Republican, even if they disagree with the general position their candidate takes on important issues. The same can be said for Democrats, as well as Independents and other political parties.


America needs voters that vote for America. We need to get away from party affiliations and vote for candidates that have the best plan for making America a military and economic super power. No one can claim that their party has done the most good for America, and that our problems are the fault of one particular party. Republicans and Democrats alike have contributed to the problems we face as a nation. Being loyal to one party or the other hasn’t, and never will solve the problems we face as a nation. On the other hand, being loyal to America, and voting for those having the best plan for America, is the only logical choice when choosing our representatives.


Before we vote, the most important things we can do is ask the tough questions, and demand straight answers. Politicians are masters at avoiding answering tough questions detailing plans. Job scared moderators on television repeatedly let politicians off the hook when given the opportunity to pin them down on tough issues. Moderators asking questions during candidate debates are equally as guilty of letting tough questions go unanswered. Smooth talking, silver-tongued politicians have conned many Americans into voting for them. If an issue is important to you, ask the tough questions until you get satisfactory answers.


Being a Liberal, a Moderate, Conservative, Right Wing, Left Wing, Independent, Republican, or a Democrat doesn’t mean American loyalty. Labels can be put on anything, but it’s the actions and desire for fairness and justice that count in the end. Don’t label yourself anything other than American, and don’t vote for anyone labeled other than American. Your vote is important, as well as the future of your children and grand children. How will you vote? AMERICAN?

When I was young in the 80s, I voted for the best candidate. Usually I voted Republican, but I lived in Maryland, a deep blue State and some of the Republicans were pretty bad and hard to take seriously since the good candidates often didn't run since they had no chance. Living in Montgomery County, I voted for a Democrat for House the first several times I voted for Michael Barnes.

Then there was an election in a close race in Indiana. The Republican won the count, the recount and the court case. Then the Democratically controlled House voted to overturn the election with no explanation and give it to the Democrat. Michael Barnes voted for it, I lost all respect for him. That was when I realized how much Party determines how they vote most of the time. You can elect a tuna fish sandwich or a Rhodes scholar and what party they are in makes more difference than everything else combined.

So I'd like to look at it the way you do, I used to look at it that way, but I no longer do

 

[kiwiman127]

"you aren't voting for someone that can actually win then you are not part of the solution"

The solution is getting qualified people to run for office that have something called ethics.
All we get from the two parties are professional politicians who spend a majority of their time in office, raising campaign funds.

No, that's a lie. Many run with little to no experience and many do good work. Sell your shit to some grade schooler.

That is the most consuming part of their job. When we talk about campaign funds, we are leaving out the largest segment of the American public out because that's the group who don't have expendable income to throw at politicians.
So because they don't throw money at the professional politicians their voices aren't heard and or listened to. The politicians use polls to guide them through the re-election process so they can act like they are in touch.
The working American public has lost it's voice because no one is listening. A good example is raising the minimum wage. Well over 70% of the people in every single poll support it, but the politicians biggest financial backers are against it. We all know the result of that set up. Money shouts down voices.
Why in the hell is the voter at fault? It's the fucking system set up by the sleazeball politicians in the first place.
Get Big Money out of politics and we will get a much more representative government as intended by our Founding Fathers.

LOL, the founders never envisioned a national minimum wage. FAIL!

If these politicians do such good work, why is their favorably rating in the singles digits?
Secondly, (I'm so sorry it went over your head), the public's overwhelming desire for an increase in the Minimum Wage was a simple example of politicians not listening to a huge majority of voters. I don't know it was so tough to understand!

 

[whitehall]

[ This is a piece that I wrote on 6/11/2005. It still remains true today, especially considering the upcoming elections in 2016. ( edited version ) ]


REPUBLICAN ? DEMOCRAT ? AMERICAN ?


Political affiliation and personal preference guide voters when choosing our policy makers. The right to vote, and have that vote counted, is one of the most important privileges of a free society. Way too often in America, citizens vote along party lines without actually looking at which candidate has the best plan. If someone has voted Republican all their lives, they usually vote Republican, even if they disagree with the general position their candidate takes on important issues. The same can be said for Democrats, as well as Independents and other political parties.


America needs voters that vote for America. We need to get away from party affiliations and vote for candidates that have the best plan for making America a military and economic super power. No one can claim that their party has done the most good for America, and that our problems are the fault of one particular party. Republicans and Democrats alike have contributed to the problems we face as a nation. Being loyal to one party or the other hasn’t, and never will solve the problems we face as a nation. On the other hand, being loyal to America, and voting for those having the best plan for America, is the only logical choice when choosing our representatives.


Before we vote, the most important things we can do is ask the tough questions, and demand straight answers. Politicians are masters at avoiding answering tough questions detailing plans. Job scared moderators on television repeatedly let politicians off the hook when given the opportunity to pin them down on tough issues. Moderators asking questions during candidate debates are equally as guilty of letting tough questions go unanswered. Smooth talking, silver-tongued politicians have conned many Americans into voting for them. If an issue is important to you, ask the tough questions until you get satisfactory answers.


Being a Liberal, a Moderate, Conservative, Right Wing, Left Wing, Independent, Republican, or a Democrat doesn’t mean American loyalty. Labels can be put on anything, but it’s the actions and desire for fairness and justice that count in the end. Don’t label yourself anything other than American, and don’t vote for anyone labeled other than American. Your vote is important, as well as the future of your children and grand children. How will you vote? AMERICAN?

You complain about political labels and yet "party affiliation" is just a political label. People don't vote strictly on party loyalty, they vote for the best candidate who represents their views. The modern political system has become so complicated that nobody is able to keep up with the pending legislation or committee decisions or even foreign policy. People trust their chosen political party to do the right thing because they can't possibly keep track of every political nuance. The much maligned Tea Party people go a step further and try to work within the system to get the best republican candidate just as CUSA probably has influence in the democrat party.Party loyalty is an extremely important factor in choosing the best candidate when it's nearly impossible to research every aspect of the candidate's history.