Rep. Murtha: Semper Fi?

[Bonnie]

June 1st, 2006

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5541

As ugly as the Haditha incident appears to be, there are people who cannot resist the temptation to make it even uglier.

First reported in Time Magazine, the November 19, 2005 incident, in which up to two dozen civilians are alleged to have been killed by U.S. Marines, did not impact public opinion until Rep. John Murtha (D, PA) appeared on Hardball with Chris Matthews, where the soldier’s pal revealed that the attack had been carried out “in cold blood” and was “even worse” than outlined in the magazine report. Murtha also acquiesced to Matthews’ eager suggestions that the attack was “another My Lai”, which, however bad it may be, is unlikely to be the case. Murtha later accused the Marine Corps of attempting a cover-up. No evidence of such a thing exists on the public record.

Although Murtha alludes to informants in the Pentagon, his version of the story has been challenged on several counts. His claim that troops were not under fire after the IED explosion that killed Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas are contradicted by tapes of radio traffic made at the time. Furthermore, the father of the dead Marine has gone on record to state that his son’s squad mates told him that they were under fire from the house in question. If true, this might change the complexion of events.

But that’s almost beside the point, because the words “cold blood”, “My Lai”, and “coverup” have already tried and sentenced everyone involved. Murtha’s statements are the precise reason why there are such things as gag orders. In entangling himself in the machinery of justice, Murtha has made a fair hearing extraordinarily difficult. Members of the military court will be under extreme pressure from the media and congress. The interests of the victims are in danger of being shunted aside. The final verdict, whatever it may be, will be distorted in the direction of hysteria and innuendo. Even if exonerated, the soldiers involved will always labor under a cloud. Worse still are the possible morale effects on troops in the field.

Murtha’s motives are difficult to fathom. Claims by some commentators that he is attempting to shift attention from a pending investigation into influence-peddling involving his brother’s company are impossible to verify. It’s difficult to imagine a man using a case as horrific as this for purposes of political maneuvering. But his own contention that he’s acting as a former Marine on behalf of the troops is far less plausible. It isn’t the troops, after all, who have spent the past year frantically trying to dig up another My Lai.

And besides, we know how former Marines act.

Evans Carlson was the kind of eccentric that abounds in U.S. military history. In the late 1930s, he was serving with the Marines in Tientsin, China, when he took the opportunity to visit Mao and his 8th Route Army at Yenan. Carlson was so overwhelmed by the experience—the comradeship, the ideology, the excitement of being part of a cause – that he became for all practical purposes a convinced Maoist.

Which didn’t prevent him from remaining a Marine. Taking some of the lessons he’d learned (including the Maoist slogan “gung ho” – “work together”), Carlson applied them to Marine Corps tactics and organization. At the outbreak of World War II he convinced his superiors to allow him to form a pair of Raider battalions, units that based their tactics in large part on Mao’s theory of guerilla warfare. After a half-successful raid on the Japanese-held island of Makin, Carlson led a dramatic month-long raid behind enemy lines on Guadalcanal, clearly demonstrating the potential of the raider concept. Though the Raider battalions never quite lived up to Carlson’s billing, they provided valuable service and acted as a basis for postwar Marine practice in units such as Force Recon.

Carlson remained in the Marine Corps, and in the early 50s, came to the attention of one particular ex-Marine, Sen. Joe McCarthy. Always eager to produce an actual communist to back up his rhetoric (most active communists had already been bagged by the time he appeared), McCarthy planned to drag Carlson before his committee and expose him as a follower of the evil Mao tse-Tung, whose troops were even then fighting UN forces in Korea.

At least, that was what he planned until a high-ranking Marine officer stalked into his congressional office and explained to the senator that once a Marine, always a Marine, and that Marines, no matter what the circumstances, never betray their brothers in arms.

McCarthy replied that he understood. At which point, legend insists, the officer said, “And besides, man, this is Carlson! You get him riled, he will f***ing kill you!”

Joe McCarthy was, at best, a vulgar, cheap opportunist. But he understood where at least one line was drawn: Marines did not turn on other Marines.

It has taken over half a century, but the Democrats have achieved a historic landmark. They have produced a politician beneath the standards of Joe McCarthy. A man who does not know where the line is drawn. Who will not allow justice to take its course. A man who will devour his own for the purposes of saving his superannuated political career.

This is the point where you’re supposed to repeat the words of Joseph N. Welch at the Army-McCarthy hearings, words that have come down as branding an entire epoch.

“Have you no sense of decency? At long last, sir….”

But I think we can let that pass this time.

 

[1549]

June 1st, 2006

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5541

So Murtha is worse than McCarthy, for vividly describing the supposed atrocities committed by Marines at My Lai? McCarthy meanwhile put the nation into a frenzy on baseless claims and put the United States Army on trial. But that can be forgiven because he did not pursue a Marine?

I said this before in another thread: in a way Murtha is helping the Marines. By purging those who can not follow proper behavior, he is preserving the integrity of the corps. If the Marines are going to kill innocent civilians they are harming the United States. Rather than criticizing those bold enough to come foreward, we should direct some attention to those--even Marines--who try to sweep events like Haditha under the rug.

 

[Bonnie]

So Murtha is worse than McCarthy, for vividly describing the supposed atrocities committed by Marines at My Lai? McCarthy meanwhile put the nation into a frenzy on baseless claims and put the United States Army on trial. But that can be forgiven because he did not pursue a Marine?

I said this before in another thread: in a way Murtha is helping the Marines. By purging those who can not follow proper behavior, he is preserving the integrity of the corps. If the Marines are going to kill innocent civilians they are harming the United States. Rather than criticizing those bold enough to come foreward, we should direct some attention to those--even Marines--who try to sweep events like Haditha under the rug.

If any of those Marines truly are guilty of these allegations yes they should be dealt with. Do you seriously think Murtha's motives are pure intent though? Additionally he seems to be misrepresenting the facts which if true does in fact put our marines in jeopardy given the nature of the enemy's quick reflex to shoot first and always.

 

[trobinett]

Good article Bonnie, glad you posted it.

Points out how, through time, somethings DON'T change, and some will say, and do, ANYTHING, to take advantage of a sad situation.

Sadder yet, is that we, the people of this great country, seem to be taken in by people like these, time, and time again.

There are those, some on this board, that take every opportunity to exploit stories where American soldiers are REPORTED to have committed some terrible deed. Once found innocent of such accusations, you never hear from them again, no retractions, nothing, just like it didn't happen.

The damage is done, and they just go about spreading lies, and casting doubt on others.

Good job..........

 

[1549]

If any of those Marines truly are guilty of these allegations yes they should be dealt with. Do you seriously think Murtha's motives are pure intent though? Additionally he seems to be misrepresenting the facts which if true does in fact put our marines in jeopardy given the nature of the enemy's quick reflex to shoot first and always.

You could be right about a mixed motive. The article you posted believes Murtha wanted to shift attention away from a scandal...perhaps so, but I will just concede that the motive is in question. None the less, I do not think Murtha should be criticized for calling out fellow Marines. A blanket of secrecy will not help promote good conduct among troops. That is my big beef with the article.

Good article Bonnie, glad you posted it.

Points out how, through time, somethings DON'T change, and some will say, and do, ANYTHING, to take advantage of a sad situation.

Sadder yet, is that we, the people of this great country, seem to be taken in by people like these, time, and time again.

There are those, some on this board, that take every opportunity to exploit stories where American soldiers are REPORTED to have committed some terrible deed. Once found innocent of such accusations, you never hear from them again, no retractions, nothing, just like it didn't happen.

The damage is done, and they just go about spreading lies, and casting doubt on others.

Good job..........

I see what you are saying, but where is the line between extorting an event and respectfully using an event to make changes for the better?

I am not saying Murtha has done either of the above, I am merely throwing the question out there.

For example: My Lai. If one says: "look at this horrible slaughter...perhaps this war is having a profound mental impact on our soldiers and is really turning ugly. Maybe we should question being in Vietnam." Is that person extorting the tragedy...or recognizing a more serious problem?

While the murdered Iraqis are the obvious victims of Haditha, our soldiers are obviously suffering from some sort of mental problem. It could have just been an idiot who decided to kill some Iraqis, but it is more likely that these soldiers are suffering severe mental duress that made them act so violently.

So if I were to say that Haditha is an example of all that is wrong with war and a reason we should not be in Iraq...am I taking advantage of a sad situation, or is it a more respectful observation?

 

[Bonnie]

1549..So if I were to say that Haditha is an example of all that is wrong with war and a reason we should not be in Iraq...am I taking advantage of a sad situation, or is it a more respectful observation?

I would say that is your position no matter what the outcome of this war would be, you believe war is probably never the way to go. I believe some wars are justified, even necessary, some are not, and war should always be the last resort.

Regarding Murtha, forgetting his politcal motivations in exploiting this story( generally par for the course) the only real problem I have is his misrepresentation of the facts in what is already an extremely volatile situation for all our soldiers there. What Murtha is actually achieving for all of this is creating bad publicity for all the good marines out there... as the Haditha situation is already being investigated with proper action to follow whatever that may be, I fail to see the positive that can come from Murtha's actions?

on a different subject.... you live in NJ and are a White Sox fan??? Shame tisk tisk

 

[CSM]

My problem with Murtha is not his exploitation of the story; I have come to expect that sort of thing from politicians. I am appalled at his misrepresentation of the facts (particularly before all the facts are known) and his conviction of the Marines involved before a courtsmartial has even occured. That to me is what makes Murtha's actions so reprhensible.

If the Marines are guilty abd convicted through due process of murdering innocent civilians (as I have said before) then they should receive the maximum sentence allowed. Murtha, of all people, should understand the impact of his statements not only within the enemy camp but also on the prejudice that could be generated in those that have to try these Marines in court.

 

[1549]

I would say that is your position no matter what the outcome of this war would be, you believe war is probably never the way to go. I believe some wars are justified, even necessary, some are not, and war should always be the last resort.

Regarding Murtha, forgetting his politcal motivations in exploiting this story( generally par for the course) the only real problem I have is his misrepresentation of the facts in what is already an extremely volatile situation for all our soldiers there. What Murtha is actually achieving for all of this is creating bad publicity for all the good marines out there... as the Haditha situation is already being investigated with proper action to follow whatever that may be, I fail to see the positive that can come from Murtha's actions?

I see your points. There are certain ways to bring attention to a matter like this. Murtha's way of pulling Haditha under the spotlight might have been too brash. I feel sort of as if his face is attatched to the event. But in the end, I am glad it has been given attention and I think that overall Murtha did the right thing.

Regarding the bad publicity, it will be the Marines' job to help soldiers learn from this. Some Iraqi's will lose faith in America because of an incident like this, and as you say, soldiers lives are put at risk when Iraqis learn of Haditha. We must promote mental care for soldiers...not just when they come home, but when they are on the front lines. We have to let them know that war crimes are unacceptable and will result in admonishment. Hopefully some positives will come from this, so that the bad publicity will give way to a better Marine corps.

on a different subject.... you live in NJ and are a White Sox fan??? Shame tisk tisk

Yep...and I am proud of it

I grew up in a near suburb of Chicago and I was taught by my father at a very young age to love the Sox. I moved to New Jersey when I was in high school and I go to college there now. I am surrounded by Yankee fans They are ok I guess, but the constant talk of 26 championships get tiresome though! (I am just a bit jealous)

 

[Bonnie]

I see your points. There are certain ways to bring attention to a matter like this. Murtha's way of pulling Haditha under the spotlight might have been too brash. I feel sort of as if his face is attatched to the event. But in the end, I am glad it has been given attention and I think that overall Murtha did the right thing.

Regarding the bad publicity, it will be the Marines' job to help soldiers learn from this. Some Iraqi's will lose faith in America because of an incident like this, and as you say, soldiers lives are put at risk when Iraqis learn of Haditha. We must promote mental care for soldiers...not just when they come home, but when they are on the front lines. We have to let them know that war crimes are unacceptable and will result in admonishment. Hopefully some positives will come from this, so that the bad publicity will give way to a better Marine corps.



Yep...and I am proud of it

I grew up in a near suburb of Chicago and I was taught by my father at a very young age to love the Sox. I moved to New Jersey when I was in high school and I go to college there now. I am surrounded by Yankee fans They are ok I guess, but the constant talk of 26 championships get tiresome though! (I am just a bit jealous)

Oh I hate the Yankees (Skankees) as well. Im a Die hard Mets fan, you know if both the Mets and Sox keep playing they way they are it may be they will both be in the Series.

So you go to college in NJ....Rutgers or Montclair?

 

[1549]

Oh I hate the Yankees (Skankees) as well. Im a Die hard Mets fan, you know if both the Mets and Sox keep playing they way they are it may be they will both be in the Series.

So you go to college in NJ....Rutgers or Montclair?

I just finished my freshman year at Rutgers, the coolest school in the state!

A few of my friends are Met fans...when it comes to talking baseball, Met fans are all around more decent than Yankee fans.

I think the Mets can win the NL. If you guys end up meeting the Sox in the World Series, I might have to send some trash talk to your message box!

Are you a New Jerseyan (sp?) yourself?

 

[Gunny]

So Murtha is worse than McCarthy, for vividly describing the supposed atrocities committed by Marines at My Lai? McCarthy meanwhile put the nation into a frenzy on baseless claims and put the United States Army on trial. But that can be forgiven because he did not pursue a Marine?

I said this before in another thread: in a way Murtha is helping the Marines. By purging those who can not follow proper behavior, he is preserving the integrity of the corps. If the Marines are going to kill innocent civilians they are harming the United States. Rather than criticizing those bold enough to come foreward, we should direct some attention to those--even Marines--who try to sweep events like Haditha under the rug.

Hate to break your heart, bud, but My Lai was at the hands of the 1st AmeriCal Division -- US Army, not the Marines.

Two things wrong with "Murtha helping the Marines." One, the Marines don't need his help; and two, He and you are speaking of allegations being investigated as if they are factual events.

And I will criticize ANY left-wing political hack who could care less about the Marines and/or the people of Iraq. This nimrod is looking for headlines and villification of the Bush Administration and the conduct of a war he disagrees with.

When you go so far as to lie your ass off on more than one occasion simply to try and sway sentiment to your side for political gain, then you suck. Simple as that.

 

[1549]

Hate to break your heart, bud, but My Lai was at the hands of the 1st AmeriCal Division -- US Army, not the Marines.

Two things wrong with "Murtha helping the Marines." One, the Marines don't need his help; and two, He and you are speaking of allegations being investigated as if they are factual events.

And I will criticize ANY left-wing political hack who could care less about the Marines and/or the people of Iraq. This nimrod is looking for headlines and villification of the Bush Administration and the conduct of a war he disagrees with.

When you go so far as to lie your ass off on more than one occasion simply to try and sway sentiment to your side for political gain, then you suck. Simple as that.

Most of that is a political rant so I am not going to comment. I don't really know why you brought up my lai. I never stated or implied that the marines were involved with my lai.

I did reference a part of Bonnie's article that stated McCarthy did not pursue a high ranking Marine suspected of being a communist. Is that the cause of this mix up?

EDIT: Oh shit...I see the problem. That post in question should say "the supposed atrocities...at Haditha", not My lai. My fault, I do a pretty poor job of editing my posts.

 

[Semper Fi]

Rep. Murtha: Semper Fi?

Yyyyes?

 

[Bonnie]

I just finished my freshman year at Rutgers, the coolest school in the state!

A few of my friends are Met fans...when it comes to talking baseball, Met fans are all around more decent than Yankee fans.

I think the Mets can win the NL. If you guys end up meeting the Sox in the World Series, I might have to send some trash talk to your message box!

Are you a New Jerseyan (sp?) yourself?

I am for most of my adult life, spent my youth in Florida and a few years in England and Hong Kong. But yes Mets fans are mostly pretty nice. I went to Rutgers as well a few years back, go to a different college now.
I'd like very much to see the Mets go to the series, they have been playing very well this year but it's early in the season so who knows? If they get too over confident they will get sloppy, plus aside from Martinez and Glavin their pitching bull pen is inconsistent.

Trash talk huh? okay bring it on

 

[Gunny]

Most of that is a political rant so I am not going to comment. I don't really know why you brought up my lai. I never stated or implied that the marines were involved with my lai.

I did reference a part of Bonnie's article that stated McCarthy did not pursue a high ranking Marine suspected of being a communist. Is that the cause of this mix up?

EDIT: Oh shit...I see the problem. That post in question should say "the supposed atrocities...at Haditha", not My lai. My fault, I do a pretty poor job of editing my posts.

I beg to differ. The political ranting is coming from Murtha, not me. I can only assume you aren't commenting because you can't.

I'll say the same thing I have always said .... IF the Marines are charged and found guilty, hang 'em. There is no excuse for war crimes.

That does not excuse the left via Murtha's ranting sensationalizing the issue. Y'all did the same thing with Abu Ghraib and in the end, those found guilty of violating the law were punished. Didn't stop all the lies and political hackery in the meantime though, did it?

 

[1549]

I beg to differ. The political ranting is coming from Murtha, not me. I can only assume you aren't commenting because you can't.

Your first post had three main components:

1) The Marines don't need Murtha's help. -->I ask you, if politicians are not going to police the armed forces, then who will? When the service is left to look out for itself, things can be hidden from the public. As I said earlier, bringing public attention to matters like this will hopefully lead to changes and improvements.

2) Speaking of allegations as if they are fact. -->You are probably correct. Though it happens every single day involving all kinds of crimes. Hell, O.J. was even found not-guilty and many still refer to him as guilty. But I will give you that point. I might even through in alleged or something of that nature more often.

3) The left is using this for political gain. -->This was the rant. Besides it already came up and was debated earlier in the thread. To sum up: Do politicians use tragedies for political gain? yes *cough*9/11*cough*. Does everyone do it? No. Earlier I asked where the line is drawn between exploiting an event and respectfully recognizing that the event is part of a broader problem. It is an interesting question.

That does not excuse the left via Murtha's ranting sensationalizing the issue. Y'all did the same thing with Abu Ghraib and in the end, those found guilty of violating the law were punished. Didn't stop all the lies and political hackery in the meantime though, did it?

As previously stated in the thread: Murtha may be a little brash, but the issue needed to be brought to the public. Republicans and democrats alike will push over elderly women to get a hold of a bomb with such political ramifications. It is a shame that Haditha and Abu Grahib can not be handled in a more bi-partisan manner.

To get back to the original point of this thread. Murtha had every right to bring this to the public and we should be thankful he did. Though, it could have been done in a more tasteful fashion. In addition, Marines should not be bound by secrecy because of their duty to the corps. Shedding light on a problem is the only way to fix it.

 

[pegwinn]

Your first post had three main components:

1) The Marines don't need Murtha's help. -->I ask you, if politicians are not going to police the armed forces, then who will? When the service is left to look out for itself, things can be hidden from the public. As I said earlier, bringing public attention to matters like this will hopefully lead to changes and improvements. I have no issue with politicians who are in the chain of command setting policy within the services. To the best of my knowlege Murtha is not in the chain of command. If he wishes to influence the service, the proper way is to address the service secretary.

2) Speaking of allegations as if they are fact. -->You are probably correct. Though it happens every single day involving all kinds of crimes. Hell, O.J. was even found not-guilty and many still refer to him as guilty. But I will give you that point. I might even through in alleged or something of that nature more often. I wrote murtha a letter spelling out all the ways his outburst is wrong. Anyway, yeah it goes on in other sectors as well, I guess two wrongs really do make a right?

3) The left is using this for political gain. -->This was the rant. Besides it already came up and was debated earlier in the thread. To sum up: Do politicians use tragedies for political gain? yes *cough*9/11*cough*. Does everyone do it? No. Earlier I asked where the line is drawn between exploiting an event and respectfully recognizing that the event is part of a broader problem. It is an interesting question.



As previously stated in the thread: Murtha may be a little brash, but the issue needed to be brought to the public. Republicans and democrats alike will push over elderly women to get a hold of a bomb with such political ramifications. It is a shame that Haditha and Abu Grahib can not be handled in a more bi-partisan manner.

To get back to the original point of this thread. Murtha had every right to bring this to the public and we should be thankful he did. Though, it could have been done in a more tasteful fashion. In addition, Marines should not be bound by secrecy because of their duty to the corps. Shedding light on a problem is the only way to fix it.

I disagree. Murtha had no right to do it as he did. What secrecy? Hate to tell ya, but if NCIS recommends a court, these guys could be sent up for life, or shot. Marines are either your best friend or worst enemy. If they are exonerated do you think Murtha would apologize? I bet not.

*

 

[Gunny]

Your first post had three main components:

1) The Marines don't need Murtha's help. -->I ask you, if politicians are not going to police the armed forces, then who will? When the service is left to look out for itself, things can be hidden from the public. As I said earlier, bringing public attention to matters like this will hopefully lead to changes and improvements.

See PEGWINN's statement in regard to this. Murtha has no military oversight responsibility.

There are plenty of things hidden from the public and rightly so.

2) Speaking of allegations as if they are fact. -->You are probably correct. Though it happens every single day involving all kinds of crimes. Hell, O.J. was even found not-guilty and many still refer to him as guilty. But I will give you that point. I might even through in alleged or something of that nature more often.

What is the point to begin with of dragging it through the mud over-and-over again without new evidence? Everything from the allegation to the results of the investigation is nothing but supposition and political rhetoric.

3) The left is using this for political gain. -->This was the rant. Besides it already came up and was debated earlier in the thread. To sum up: Do politicians use tragedies for political gain? yes *cough*9/11*cough*. Does everyone do it? No. Earlier I asked where the line is drawn between exploiting an event and respectfully recognizing that the event is part of a broader problem. It is an interesting question.

There is no rant. This is a political message board for voicing one's political opinion. If you can speak of unsupported allegation as fact, at least try to not be a hypocrite about it and allow me my unsupported allegations as well.

Whether or not you asked the question, the fact is, if this isn't Murtha exploiting the event, I don't know what is. And if the Dem's aren't exploiting Murtha knowing the second any criticism is levelled his way for his retarded political opinion that they'll jumpr right in and accuse his detractors of not honoring his service (a completely irrelevant issue), then the sky ain't blue.

As previously stated in the thread: Murtha may be a little brash, but the issue needed to be brought to the public. Republicans and democrats alike will push over elderly women to get a hold of a bomb with such political ramifications. It is a shame that Haditha and Abu Grahib can not be handled in a more bi-partisan manner.

To get back to the original point of this thread. Murtha had every right to bring this to the public and we should be thankful he did. Though, it could have been done in a more tasteful fashion. In addition, Marines should not be bound by secrecy because of their duty to the corps. Shedding light on a problem is the only way to fix it.

Marines are not "bound by secrecy." That's just yours, or someone's purposeful misinterpretation of the facts. Marines involved in an investigation are not allowed to discuss anything pertaining to the investigation until it is complete. Pretty-much the same as civilians. The only difference is, the Marines WILL prosecute you for it while the civilians are too chickenshit to enforce their own laws.

As far as any "duty to the Corps" .... you're talking to a career Marine. You can shove THAT. You don't know what you're talking about.

One's duty to the Corps includes following orders and obeying the law. It is one's duty to disobey an unlawful order and report it immediately .... up the chain of command, not to the NYT or Murtha.

And I will make my argument REAL simple: Had this not been sensationalized and getting the beat the dead horse treatment, there WAS a chance for a fair and impartial investigation. And if you thing NIS/CID errs on the side of the average Marine, you can rethink THAT here and now.

Now, regardless the outcome, there is no chance for anything to be fair and impartial. It's going to be a circus instead.

 

[pegwinn]

What he said. Good Job Guns.

vBulletin Message
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunnyL again.

 

[nt250]

I learned a lot during the last election.

I'm 47 years old, and female, so the Vietnam war is nothing but a distant memory for me. I grew up and have lived in Rhode Island for most of my life, so I have some familiarity with John Kerry's long political career.

Every time he ran for office, and every time he came up for relection after winning his senate seat, there were always articles in The Providence Journal about his past "betrayal" of his fellow soldiers. He's been hated by veterans for 30 years. The last election was nothing new at all. But I always thought the main beef they had with him was about the phony throwing-away-his-medals incident where he pretended to throw his medals away during a protest, and then years later admitted that they weren't his medals after all.

Then, during the election, the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth showed up. This was nothing new for me. Veterans always came out to oppose Kerry every time he ran a campaign. What I found appalling was how the mainstream media kept presenting the Swiftees as dupes of the Republicans. Like they were paid to oppose Kerry. I knew there was a deep seated hatred for Kerry by many, many Vietnam veterans that went back years. I just didn't know why.

Then I watched the press conference that the Swiftees gave when they first launched in the Spring of 2004. I haven't been back to their site in a couple of years, but if anyone wants to watch it, I'll see if I can find a link to it. These men were so incensed that it wasn't just politics. They weren't against Kerry because they supported George W. Bush. Grown men do not have to fight back tears to speak in a room full of reporters because of politics. They felt betrayed.

One man, who was the son of a dead admiral who have forgiven Kerry for his betrayal and came out in 1998 to support Kerry in his close relection race with Bill Weld, only to see Kerry repeat many of his accusations in his authorized biography "Tour Of Duty", was incensed that his dead father was bismirched again in Kerry's biography.

I knew then, after watching that press conference, that there was a lot more to this story than a few thrown medals. So I started reading. And what I read shocked me.

I read John Kerry's "testimony" before the Senate committee on Foreign Relations on April 22, 1971. I put the word "testimony" in quotes because I have never been able to find out if he was ever sworn in. As far as I can tell, he wasn't. He was treated like a rock star.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony

In his statements, he accuses his fellow service members of committing war crimes and atrocities on "day to day basis" with the "full awareness of all levels of command". A blatant lie. Were atrocities committed? Yes. But they were rare. John Kerry lied for his own politcal gain.

Kerry also admits to committing treason. He says:

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.

The Democratic Republic of Vietnam was the North Vietnamese government. The Provisional Revolutionary Government was the Viet Cong. He met with the enemy, came back and advanced their goals, and admitted it on floor of the senate.

Kerry was trying to start a politcal career. Why Murtha is betraying his fellow service members is anyones guess.