Remember, it was Bush and the GOP who tricked this country into invading Iraq. PERIOD!

[whitehall]

You could say that the U.S. was tricked into WW2 when FDR grossly underestimated the Japanese military and invited attack so that we could get into the "real war" in Europe. You could say that the U.S. was tricked into Korea when Truman sent Troops on an executive order and bungled the conflict to such an extent that we lost an estimated 50,000 Americans during the three year quagmire that should have lasted six months. We know that the U.S. was tricked into Vietnam with a fake crisis created by LBJ and he rigged the conflict so that we could win every battle and still lose the war.God knows that Bill Clinton tricked NATO into bombing a defenseless country into the stone age when he was caught with his pants down. President Bush did everything on the up and up and even gave Saddam a year to comply with U.N. sanctions. Somehow, with the cooperation of the left wing media, the small minded angry left got it into their small minds that they were tricked into the Iraq conflict when congress including 36% of democrats voted for boots on the ground.

After 9-11, we gave Bush a 9-11 card where he could do anything in the name of fighting terrorism

Bush abused our faith in an unnecessary invasion of Iraq[/QUO
If "we" (36% of elected democrats and a majority of republicans) gave President Bush a 9-11 card where he could DO ANYTHING in the name of fighting terrorism it follows that the only way he could have abused our faith is to do nothing. The dirty little secret is that democrats took back the 9-11 card and undermined the mission and then (with the cooperation of the left wing media) pretended that they were "tricked". Even though it makes democrats look like fools it seems that the concept works for angry lefties who supported Clinton's carpet bombing of a defenseless country but it still doesn't make sense.

 

[rightwinger]

Too many acceded to the invasion. The wise opposed it.The criminals got their way. Now, we live with it.

In post 9-11 America, it was a matter of false patriotism

Being called weak on terror would end your political career. So Bush was given the latitude to do what he wanted

America paid the price with 7000 dead

 

[xyz]

relevant:
Trump pardons 'Scooter' Libby, former Iraq war-era Cheney aide

although Trump's motives were probably meant to discredit the US intelligence services, it also implies an approval of the Iraq War.

 

[there4eyeM]

Too many acceded to the invasion. The wise opposed it.The criminals got their way. Now, we live with it.

In post 9-11 America, it was a matter of false patriotism

Being called weak on terror would end your political career. So Bush was given the latitude to do what he wanted

America paid the price with 7000 dead

Cowards caved in, true. Congress persons who knew better did what was of tactical value and traded America'a well being for their own.
When we speak of the original intent of the "Founders" about anything Constitutional, we should remember that above all they did not want a central power that was above all.

 

[rightwinger]

relevant:
Trump pardons 'Scooter' Libby, former Iraq war-era Cheney aide

although Trump's motives were probably meant to discredit the US intelligence services, it also implies an approval of the Iraq War.

Republicans cover for their criminals

 

[Yarddog]

Remember, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, Bush Sr. chased them back into Iraq. And rightfully so. We had treaties with Kuwait.

But he stopped at the border.

And you know, that being a former WWII officer and a hero, he didn't just walk away from Iraq. He left sanctions in place, a watchful military and satellites overhead to monitor Iraqi actions. PERIOD!

What the GOP did to the economy was bad enough, but the shambles they left the military and the Middle East were criminal. I have always felt Obama's big mistake was that he didn't bring Bush and Cheney and other members of that wicked cabal up on charges.

Obama was handed a wrecked economy and a Middle East debacle and from what I've seen, he actually did turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Instead of attacking Obama, certain members of the GOP should be happy he didn't bring them up on charges. Maybe if he had, they wouldn't be acting the fools they are today.

If you don't know what the DEM alternative plan was --- I'll GLADLY educate you. It involved continuing the DAILY BOMBINGS and 200,000 deaths of Iraqi civilians dying from starvation, lack of med supplies and cratered infrastructure.. With a SEC STATE who CALLED all that carnage "acceptable collateral damage"...

Allies wanted to do the right thing and just WALK AWAY from the embargo. You assholes wanted to CONTINUE it.

Bless GW for doing SOMETHING. Even if it wasn't the RIGHT thing, it was better than us looking like Kim Jung Il...

continuing the DAILY BOMBINGS and 200,000 deaths of Iraqi civilians dying from starvation, lack of med supplies and cratered infrastructure

Where do you get this stuff? You're brain must be really something special to come up with such nonsense.

If you don't know this stuff, don't embarrass yourself.. Being ignorant isn't as bad as being a CONFIDENT idiot. You don't know that Human Rights orgs estimated the Iraqi CItizen death toll from starvation, lack of meds and destroying infrastructure to be anywhere between 200,000 and 400,000 over 12 years?

I Ain't helping you -- you're far beyond that. And a waste of time to discuss with..

From the far left Journal The Nation

A Hard Look at Iraq Sanctions

The humanitarian disaster resulting from sanctions against Iraq has been frequently cited as a factor that motivated the September 11 terrorist attacks. Osama bin Laden himself mentioned the Iraq sanctions in a recent tirade against the United States. Critics of US policy in Iraq claim that sanctions have killed more than a million people, many of them children. Saddam Hussein puts the death toll at one and a half million. The actual numbers are lower than that, although still horrifying.

The grim question of how many people have died in Iraq has sparked heated debate over the years. The controversy dates from 1995, when researchers with a Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) study in Iraq wrote to The Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Society, asserting that sanctions were responsible for the deaths of 567,000 Iraqi children. The New York Times picked up the story and declared "Iraq Sanctions Kill Children." CBS followed up with a segment on 60 Minutes that repeated the numbers and depicted sanctions as a murderous assault on children. This was the program in which UN ambassador (and later Secretary of State) Madeleine Albright, when asked about these numbers, coldly stated, "The price is worth it."

Ali, a researcher at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, and Shah, an analyst for the World Health Organization in Geneva, conducted a demographic survey for UNICEF in cooperation with the government of Iraq. In early 1999 their study surveyed 40,000 households in south-central Iraq and in the northern Kurdish zone. In south-central Iraq, child mortality rates rose from 56 per 1,000 births for the period 1984-89 to 131 per 1,000 for the period 1994-99. In the autonomous Kurdish region in the north, Ali and Shah found that child mortality rates actually fell during the same period, from 80 per 1,000 births to 72 per 1,000.

Garfield has recently recalculated his numbers, based on the additional findings of the Ali and Shah study, to arrive at an estimate of approximately 350,000 through 2000. Most of these deaths are associated with sanctions, according to Garfield, but some are also attributable to destruction caused by the Gulf War air campaign, which dropped 90,000 tons of bombs in forty-three days, a far more intensive attack than the current strikes against Afghanistan. The bombing devastated Iraq's civilian infrastructure, destroying eighteen of twenty electricity-generating plants and disabling vital water-pumping and sanitation systems. Untreated sewage flowed into rivers used for drinking water, resulting in a rapid spread of infectious disease. Comprehensive trade sanctions compounded the effects of the war, making it difficult to rebuild, and adding new horrors of hunger and malnutrition.

I don't know how any one would have the COURAGE to ADMIT they were unaware of this and still shoot their mouth off as much as you do Deanie. Keep it up..

From the link....

"CBS followed up with a segment on 60 Minutes that repeated the numbers and depicted sanctions as a murderous assault on children. This was the program in which UN ambassador (and later Secretary of State) Madeleine Albright, when asked about these numbers, coldly stated, "The price is worth it."

 

[Yarddog]

relevant:
Trump pardons 'Scooter' Libby, former Iraq war-era Cheney aide

although Trump's motives were probably meant to discredit the US intelligence services, it also implies an approval of the Iraq War.

Republicans cover for their criminals

thats a government problem in whole..... not a republican problem. They all think about the next election and how many seats they hold. If they can manipulate the media for damage control they will do it.

 

[whitehall]

Can we agree that the coalition between the FDR administration and the media "tricked" us into thinking Japan would be a pushover? Can we agree that Truman's executive order that sent Troops to Korea was illegal and that the conflict was so mismanaged that it defies understanding? Can we agree that LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam under a fake (CIA manufactured?) crisis? It makes Bush's adventure in Iraq just about the only Military mission that wasn't faked in the last 75 years.

 

[rightwinger]

Can we agree that the coalition between the FDR administration and the media "tricked" us into thinking Japan would be a pushover? Can we agree that Truman's executive order that sent Troops to Korea was illegal and that the conflict was so mismanaged that it defies understanding? Can we agree that LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam under a fake (CIA manufactured?) crisis? It makes Bush's adventure in Iraq just about the only Military mission that wasn't faked in the last 75 years.

Japan attacked us
They had one of the worlds biggest Navies and they controlled most of the Pacific

Hardly a pushover

 

[whitehall]

Can we agree that the coalition between the FDR administration and the media "tricked" us into thinking Japan would be a pushover? Can we agree that Truman's executive order that sent Troops to Korea was illegal and that the conflict was so mismanaged that it defies understanding? Can we agree that LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam under a fake (CIA manufactured?) crisis? It makes Bush's adventure in Iraq just about the only Military mission that wasn't faked in the last 75 years.

Japan attacked us
They had one of the worlds biggest Navies and they controlled most of the Pacific

Hardly a pushover

You make my point. There is ample documentation that the FDR administration considered the Japanese as inferior nearsighted race of little monkeys who were incapable of building a ship that would float or a plane that would fly. Likewise the little haberdasher that democrats hand picked was afraid of his own general and misunderstood Red China's threat of entering into the Korean conflict if US/UN Troops approached the Yalu River.

 

[flacaltenn]

What are you talking about, "partisan"?

Most Republicans and Democrats were for the war and bombing, he didn't say he was for the bombing and said he was against the war.

The daily bombing was part and parcel of the Containment that RWer asserted "was working". Most EVERYONE now was "against the occupation" but maybe not against the war. Containment was falling apart and was a morality nightmare for this country. UNHRC chief RESIGNED pointing the finger at us. I think it was the middle finger.

And my major point here is -- the "containment" was based on the same FAULTY charges that Bush and Clinton both used for THEIR roles in all this. So it was clear then (because of years of "UN inspections") and it's clearer now --- that damn near ALL of our actions were unjustified. Yet -- WE killed over 300,000 because of embargo and containment and bombed an advanced Arab country back into the Middle Ages.

I'm GONNA argue with ANYONE who didn't have an alternative to either CONTINUING the embargo or invading and removing Saddam..

Takes principles and spine to tell people to "WALK AWAY" when virtually all of our Political Leadership didn't have the cajones to do that.

 

[flacaltenn]

relevant:
Trump pardons 'Scooter' Libby, former Iraq war-era Cheney aide

although Trump's motives were probably meant to discredit the US intelligence services, it also implies an approval of the Iraq War.

You have to be able to pretzel yourself pretty far to leap to that conclusion. Scooter Libby was bullied into a process crime in an investigation with a VERY LIMITED scope around Valerie Plame. Says more about his concerns of "special counsel over-reach" than ANYTHING about the Iraq War.

 

[xyz]

What are you talking about, "partisan"?

Most Republicans and Democrats were for the war and bombing, he didn't say he was for the bombing and said he was against the war.

The daily bombing was part and parcel of the Containment that RWer asserted "was working".

I didn't notice him praising the bombing in particular. Although I think that's something he'll have to respond to.

 

[whitehall]

Can we agree that President Bush didn't "trick" anyone anymore than FDR, Harry Truman, LBJ and Bill Clinton? The dirty little secret is that every military adventure in the bloody 20th century happened during a democrat administration and most involved propaganda sustained by the left wing media and really bad strategy that cost a hundred times more casualties than the conflict in Iraq.. George Bush's adventure in Iraq is probably the best run and most successful mission in a hundred years but democrats hate the Military during republican administrations and undermined it from the start. Meanwhile the left wing media claims that (congress) and Americans were "tricked". No surprises here.

 

[rightwinger]

Can we agree that the coalition between the FDR administration and the media "tricked" us into thinking Japan would be a pushover? Can we agree that Truman's executive order that sent Troops to Korea was illegal and that the conflict was so mismanaged that it defies understanding? Can we agree that LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam under a fake (CIA manufactured?) crisis? It makes Bush's adventure in Iraq just about the only Military mission that wasn't faked in the last 75 years.

Japan attacked us
They had one of the worlds biggest Navies and they controlled most of the Pacific

Hardly a pushover

You make my point. There is ample documentation that the FDR administration considered the Japanese as inferior nearsighted race of little monkeys who were incapable of building a ship that would float or a plane that would fly. Likewise the little haberdasher that democrats hand picked was afraid of his own general and misunderstood Red China's threat of entering into the Korean conflict if US/UN Troops approached the Yalu River.

As a former undersecretary of the Navy, FDR understood the Japanese had a superior carrier task force as well as extensive submarines.
The Zero was also superior to what we had at the time

 

[rightwinger]

Can we agree that President Bush didn't "trick" anyone anymore than FDR, Harry Truman, LBJ and Bill Clinton? The dirty little secret is that every military adventure in the bloody 20th century happened during a democrat administration and most involved propaganda sustained by the left wing media and really bad strategy that cost a hundred times more casualties than the conflict in Iraq.. George Bush's adventure in Iraq is probably the best run and most successful mission in a hundred years but democrats hate the Military during republican administrations and undermined it from the start. Meanwhile the left wing media claims that (congress) and Americans were "tricked". No surprises here.

Bush botched his invasion of Iraq
First by abandoning the war on terror to conduct an unnecessary invasion
Secondly, by prematurely declaring victory
Thirdly by having insufficient forces on the ground to maintain the peace

Resulted in 6000 American deaths

 

[whitehall]

Congress thought it was a legitimate mission and authorized boots on the ground. Harry Truman never consulted congress and we lost about 50,000 Americans in a three year quagmire in Korea. LBJ faked a crisis and set the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still lose the freaking war in Vietnam. Democrats tried like hell to "botch" the Military mission in Iraq but from a military standpoint the U.S. forces went further and faster and took less casualties than any other mission of it's kind in history. It's been twenty years and lefties are still determined to undermine the mission.

 

[rightwinger]

Congress thought it was a legitimate mission and authorized boots on the ground. Harry Truman never consulted congress and we lost about 50,000 Americans in a three year quagmire in Korea. LBJ faked a crisis and set the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still lose the freaking war in Vietnam. Democrats tried like hell to "botch" the Military mission in Iraq but from a military standpoint the U.S. forces went further and faster and took less casualties than any other mission of it's kind in history. It's been twenty years and lefties are still determined to undermine the mission.

Congress based their decision on the post 9-11 political climate and doctored intelligence provided by Bush

6000 died after “Mission Accomplished”

 

[whitehall]

Congress thought it was a legitimate mission and authorized boots on the ground. Harry Truman never consulted congress and we lost about 50,000 Americans in a three year quagmire in Korea. LBJ faked a crisis and set the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still lose the freaking war in Vietnam. Democrats tried like hell to "botch" the Military mission in Iraq but from a military standpoint the U.S. forces went further and faster and took less casualties than any other mission of it's kind in history. It's been twenty years and lefties are still determined to undermine the mission.

Congress based their decision on the post 9-11 political climate and doctored intelligence provided by Bush

6000 died after “Mission Accomplished”

You don't get to assume how congress based it's decision and congress members don't get to take their decision back and undermine the mission. Congress didn't have a chance to make a decision in Korea or Vietnam. The Military mission in Iraq was textbook and brilliant. Lefties hate it because a republican was in office and they hate the Military anyway.

 

[sparky]

It was brilliant? Those people handed it all over to the next tin pot fool as soon as the dust cleared from our last truck leaving.....~S~