Zone1 Religions Don't Need to Clash - Scott Ritter.

[alang1216]

Can anything in the bibles be relied upon as factual history, when even today Christians don't agree on what is literally true and what is not?

That would be pretty risky wouldn't it?

Let's question the history of Noah's ark and the flood that covered the earth to the tops of the mountains. Does that mean that the flood covered some 'earth'? (dirt)

To say that nothing can be relied on as factual is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Scholars have been separating the Biblical wheat from the chaff for over 100 years. My current favorite in this field is Bart D. Ehrman from UNC.

 

[Donald H]

I thought Catholics were OK with evolution being the mechanism of God's creation, meaning they are not mutually exclusive.

That's what the CC is trying to sell now that the supernatural nonsense isn't selling as well anymore and the congregations are melting away.

That's the reason we're talking about the stories that can't work as being literally true.

Better to now start asking the question on what in the bible is true? What's left standing?

 

[Donald H]

To say that nothing can be relied on as factual is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Scholars have been separating the Biblical wheat from the chaff for over 100 years. My current favorite in this field is Bart D. Ehrman from UNC.

Yes, I'm suggesting that the best way of investigating for truth is to assume it's all lies, and start from that premise.
It can't be any easier than starting with Genesis!

 

[alang1216]

Yes, I'm suggesting that the best way of investigating for truth is to assume it's all lies, and start from that premise.
It can't be any easier than starting with Genesis!

Good luck with that. Genesis is myth and legend. Almost no one thinks it is literally true. Jesus, on the other hand, almost certainly lived and died by crucifixion about 2,000 years ago. If you don't see a clear difference in the stories you'll never get any truth out of the text.

 

[ding]

I like that approach but I wonder how many would agree with you.

Does that matter?

 

[ding]

All human systems are good and bad so I appreciate the good and distain the bad but ultimately they are all a wash. Guns let us defend ourselves, which I appreciate, but also allow deranged people to kill innocent people in mass shootings.

I think people over exaggerate the bad and under estimate the good. We have essentially won the cosmic lottery.

 

[ding]

Yes, I'm suggesting that the best way of investigating for truth is to assume it's all lies, and start from that premise.
It can't be any easier than starting with Genesis!

That's wonderful logic.

 

[Donald H]

That's wonderful logic.

I said lies for general consumption by forum members. For the more informed such as Meriweather, I will suggest that they weren't deliberately lying in some cases, such as Noah's ark and the big fish story for examples. They likely believed that both would be possible..

As always, I appeal to you as a decent Christian to keep the discussion on topic and without the usual insults.

 

[alang1216]

Does that matter?

It would matter to me if I was the only one who believed in something. I might think to myself, what do they see that I don't. But that is just me.

 

[alang1216]

I think people over exaggerate the bad and under estimate the good. We have essentially won the cosmic lottery.

Ahh, the Royal We. Not everyone would agree, like say, a child in Gaza or Israel who is now a crippled orphan.

 

[ding]

I said lies for general consumption by forum members. For the more informed such as Meriweather, I will suggest that they weren't deliberately lying in some cases, such as Noah's ark and the big fish story for examples. They likely believed that both would be possible..

As always, I appeal to you as a decent Christian to keep the discussion on topic and without the usual insults.

Is there a nice way of saying you are using dumb logic?

 

[ding]

Ahh, the Royal We. Not everyone would agree, like say, a child in Gaza or Israel who is now a crippled orphan.

Still is better off than being a rock.

 

[Donald H]

I think people over exaggerate the bad and under estimate the good. We have essentially won the cosmic lottery.

That can sometimes be true. But to apply that logic to the bibles would be wrong on account of it being much easier to search for the lies instead of searching for the truths.

 

[ding]

It would matter to me if I was the only one who believed in something. I might think to myself, what do they see that I don't. But that is just me.

Great logic. With logic like that we'd still have slavery.

 

[ding]

That can sometimes be true. But to apply that logic to the bibles would be wrong on account of it being much easier to search for the lies instead of searching for the truths.

I'm just going to assume everything you say is a lie until you can prove to me that it isn't.

 

[Donald H]

I'm just going to assume everything you say is a lie until you can prove to me that it isn't.

The giraffe's heads sticking out of the roof on Noah's ark was a deliberate lie aimed at children.

The proof is in the fact that the god hadn't invented giraffes at that point in time. Had they shown Brontasaurus there could have been a point being made to children..

 

[ding]

The giraffe's heads sticking out of the roof on Noah's ark was a deliberate lie aimed at children.

The proof is in the fact that the god hadn't invented giraffes at that point in time. Had they shown Brontasaurus there could have been a point being made to children..

Was that in the children's Sunday school edition?

A quick internet search shows giraffes first emerged 1 million years ago, Einstein.

 

[alang1216]

Still is better off than being a rock.

Your bar is low for lottery winners.

 

[alang1216]

Great logic. With logic like that we'd still have slavery.

Really, that is your reply? You do realize that probably 1/2 the people in this country were opposed to slavery so I'd hardly have been the only one. If you were living then and thought slavery was OK, even though only you believed that, you'd feel OK to go around and enslave people.

 

[ding]

Your bar is low for lottery winners.

Is it? You are the most advanced thing the universe has produced that we know of. You are self aware. You get to experience existence unlike any creature on earth. If you actually cataloged every minute of your existence as being good or bad, I'm pretty sure you'd understand my bar.