Religion of peace? Not in the slightest. A religion of authorized killing.

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April 28, 2006, 6:24 a.m.
Not for the Feint of Heart
Robert Spencer asks the hard questions about Islam...and answers them.

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), by Robert Spencer (Regnery, 233 pp., $19.95)

It is often said that in order to keep polite company polite, we must refrain from speaking of religion and politics. Yet, the two are not equals in the hierarchy of politesse. Political debate may be unwelcome in many settings, but no one clears the room by observing that the great totalitarian evils of the 20th century, Communism and fascism, were directly responsible for incalculable carnage.

Not so when it comes to religion — or, at least, one particular religion. The past three decades have borne witness to a rising, global tide of terrorist atrocities, wrought by Muslims who proclaim without apology — indeed, with animating pride — that their actions are compelled by Islam. Nonetheless, the quickest ticket to oblivion on PC's pariah express is to suggest that the root cause of Islamic terrorism might be, well, Islam.

That the possibility is utterable at all today owes exclusively to the sheer audacity of Muslim legions, who have rioted globally, on cue, based on what even their exhausted defenders must now concede are trifles (newspaper cartoons and a tall tale of Koran abuse at Guantanamo Bay leap to mind). But the largest obstacle to any examination of creed — larger even than a growing alphabet soup of Muslim interest groups — has been the same Western elites who are the prime targets of jihadist ire. In the most notable instance, President Bush absolved Islam of any culpability even as fires raged at the remains of the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. And, although attacks before and after that date have been numerous and widespread, it has become nearly as much an oratorical staple as "My fellow Americans" for U.S. politicians to begin any discussion of our signal national security challenge with the observation that Islam is a "religion of peace" — a religion that has surely been perverted, "hijacked," and otherwise misconstrued by terrorists.

No more, insists Robert Spencer, the intrepid author and analyst behind the Jihad Watch website. Spencer's theory is as logical as it is controversial: when the single common thread that runs through virtually all of the international terrorism of the modern era is that its perpetrators are Muslims, and when the jihadists themselves tell us that their religion is the force that drives them, we should seriously consider the probability that Islam is a causative agent, even the principal causative agent, of their terrorist actions. This he undertakes to do in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)..

One might once have assumed it inarguable that an ideological battle cannot be fought with complete inattention to ideology. But that has been the case with the war on terror, and Spencer's mission is to rectify that with a simple, user-friendly volume that walks the reader through elementary facts about Islam — its tenets, its scriptures, and its history, including most prominently the Koran and the life and deeds of the Prophet Mohammed. It is a tutorial shorn of wishful thinking.

While Spencer does not declare that anyone adhering to Islam is a terrorist waiting to happen, he clearly believes it is a perilous belief system. Make no mistake: This is a disturbing account. And most disturbing is that the truly arresting passages are not the author's contentions and deductions. They are the actual words of Islamic scripture and the accounts of several revered events in Islamic tradition.

The story by which Islam achieves hegemony over much the world and the loyalty of millions of worshippers, very nearly extending its dominion throughout Europe, is a story of military conquest. Mohammed, deemed the final Messenger of Allah — superseding the prophets of the Judeo-Christian tradition, a group in which Muslims include Jesus — was a warrior, in addition to wearing the hats of poet, philosopher, and economist, among others.

The Koran, Spencer argues, does not teach tolerance and peace. At best, he explains, there are isolated sections which urge Muslims to leave unbelievers alone in their errant ways, and which counsel that forced conversion is forbidden. But these must be considered in context with other verses, such as those directing that Mohammed "make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them," and that the faithful "slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them," and so on.

What are we to make of the seeming contradiction? Obviously, self-professed moderate Muslims point often to the benign passages, while terrorists echo the belligerent ones. Who is right? Spencer vigorously contends that the militants have the better of the argument. The Koran, which is not arranged chronologically but according to the length of its chapters (or "suras"), is theologically divided between Mohammed's Meccan and Medinan periods. The former, from the early part of the Prophet's ministry when he was calling inhabitants of Mecca to Islam, are the soothing, poetic verses. The latter, written in Medina after Mohammed was ousted from Mecca, are the more bellicose. The Medinan scriptures come later in time and, sensibly, overrule their predecessors.

This is bracing in at least two ways. First, even if there were a logical counterargument to this (and let us pray that someone comes up with a compelling one soon), it underscores the seeming impossibility of proving wrong those who commit atrocities in the name of Islam. When they claim justification in their religion for merciless attacks and other brutalities (such as beheadings), they are not imagining it out of thin air — it's right there in black-and-white. The reformers may try gamely to minimize or reinterpret, but they cannot make the words go away.

Second, those words are taken to be the words of God Himself. The Koran is not like the books of the Old and New Testaments. It is not thought to be "inspired," to be related through intermediaries whose assumed human gloss opens up possibilities of reinterpretation or correction. Muslims believe the Koran contains the unvarnished teachings of Allah, dictated directly to Mohammed by the archangel Gabriel. This renders all the more challenging (to put it mildly) the burden of discrediting terrorist operatives who claim to be doing precisely what they have been divinely instructed to do — and doing it in the service of jihad, the "striving" which, Spencer explains, is a bedrock obligation of all Muslims.

Islam, Spencer elaborates, aims at nothing less than total domination — first, unrivalled supremacy in any territory that is (or was at any time) under its sway, and, ultimately, spreading throughout the world — whether by persuasion or by sheer force. The bleak choices presented to non-believers in the Muslim lands are to accept Islam (and its attendant social system, which is particularly oppressive of women); to live the grim life of dhimmitude by submitting to the authority of the Islamic state (permitted to practice other religions under tight regulations and only if the jizya, or poll-tax on non-Muslims, is paid); or to die. The bleak future for non-believers in the rest of the world is a state of war until they are subdued, as — beginning in the seventh century — were the Byzantine Empire, Persia and the Christian strongholds of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.

Consistent with the "Politically Incorrect" model, Spencer spends much of his time deconstructing "PC Myths." These involve not only the sugar-coated conventional wisdom about Muslim doctrine but also what he sees as the cognate project to revise Islamic history.

The "Golden Age" of Islam, for example, is, according to the author, a gross exaggeration. He does not deny that there were grand achievements under caliphates that ruled various places from the tenth through the fourteenth centuries, and Muslims themselves, he acknowledges, were responsible for important advances in mathematics and, to a lesser extent, medicine. Nonetheless, Spencer counters that many of the epoch's achievements either occurred despite Islam (particularly in the areas of literature, art, and music) or are better understood as the accomplishments (especially in science and architecture) of better educated peoples whom Muslims conquered.

Islamic culture, for Spencer, thwarted great possibilities. Muslim philosophers were singularly responsible for preserving and explicating the work of Aristotle — but over time, these philosophers were read primarily in the West, because waves of anti-intellectualism and a conceit that rote study of the Koran was sufficient education overtook the Islamic world. Medical advance was stymied because of traditions that forbade or discouraged dissections and artistic representations of the human body. Spencer does credit Islam with causing the Renaissance and the discovery of the New World — but only indirectly. The conquest of Constantinople caused Europeans (like Columbus) to seek new trade routes to the East and hastened the flight of Greek intellectuals to Western Europe.

A final "Myth" Spencer endeavors to explode is the legacy of the Crusades. While not gainsaying Christian excesses and brutality, the story, he asserts, is far from one-sided. It is just that, consistent with today's victimology leitmotif, only one side gets told anymore.

The comprehensive narrative, Spencer insists, stretches back for 450 years before the supposed eleventh century start of the Crusades — back to the conquest of Jerusalem in 638. "The sword spread Islam" and ultimately repressed the formerly predominant non-Muslim populations that are tiny minorities in what are now Islamic countries. The Crusades, Spencer relates, were largely defensive struggles to protect threatened Christians. He does not dispute that the political agenda of recapturing what had been eastern Christendom loomed large, but he does contend that the legends of forced conversions, insatiable looting, and mindless atrocities are largely overblown.

This is not a book for the feint of heart. Nonetheless, it is well done and extremely important. Much of current American policy hinges on the notions that there is a vibrant moderate Islam and that it must simply be possessed of the intellectual firepower necessary to put the lie to the militants. These are the premises behind the ambitious projects to democratize the Middle East, to establish a Palestinian state that will peacefully coexist with its Israeli neighbor, and to win the vast majority of the world's billion-plus Muslims over to our side in the War on Terror.

They are, however, premises that are more the product of assumption than critical thought. In this highly accessible, well-researched, quick-paced read, Robert Spencer dares to bring that critical thought to the equation. The result is not a promising landscape, but it's a landscape we must understand. You really can't fight an ideological battle without grappling with the ideology.

— Andrew C. McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor, is a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/mccarthy/mccarthy200604280624.asp


Of course the informed already know Islam condones violence and murder. It's time to call Islam what it is. A religion of violence whose believers practice and condone the killing of others. I hope soon our "leaders" including unfortunately George Bush, pull their heads out of their politically correct backsides and open their eyes to the truth.
 
Well, to THAT article, I say RIGHT FUCKING ON................... :rock:

Mine may not be crital thought, but by God, it's MY thought, and I'm sick in fuckin tired of people making excuses for these ass-hoe's, who profess to be people of religion.

They are NOT people of religion, their murder's and worst. Cowards, and users.

Why do the liberals of the world continue to make excuses for them?

The sooner they exposed for what they are, pretenders, the better.

The sooner they are hunted down, and treated to the the same final solution they wish on others, the better.

I only hope I live long enough to see the disbandment of such a evil, and counter productive religion.
 
trobinett said:
Well, to THAT article, I say RIGHT FUCKING ON................... :rock:

Mine may not be crital thought, but by God, it's MY thought, and I'm sick in fuckin tired of people making excuses for these ass-hoe's, who profess to be people of religion.

They are NOT people of religion, their murder's and worst. Cowards, and users.

Why do the liberals of the world continue to make excuses for them?

The sooner they exposed for what they are, pretenders, the better.

The sooner they are hunted down, and treated to the the same final solution they wish on others, the better.

I only hope I live long enough to see the disbandment of such a evil, and counter productive religion.
Yep, at this point in time I'll settle for them becoming Christians, secularists, agnostics, atheists, anything but Muslim! Really!
 
Robert Spencer said:
"... Communism and fascism, were directly responsible for incalculable carnage."
Communism and fascism, ironicly, were also the irrationally emotional rejoinders to the incalcuable carnage of the totalitarian theocracies that preceded them. This Mr. Spencer while railing against Islamic theocratic idealism (OH NOES!!! AYE-RABS!!!!), and accusing the left as being accomplices, he appears to let Judeao/Christian theocrats, their rightist-corporatist/fascist accomplices, and their fascist response to terrorism right off the hook.
 
LOki said:
Communism and fascism, ironicly, were also the irrationally emotional rejoinders to the incalcuable carnage of the totalitarian theocracies that preceded them. This Mr. Spencer while railing against Islamic theocratic idealism (OH NOES!!! AYE-RABS!!!!), and accusing the left as being accomplices, he appears to let Judeao/Christian theocrats, their rightist-corporatist/fascist accomplices, and their fascist response to terrorism right off the hook.

Ironic you say? Notice that they were both "totalitarian" in nature....as is Islamofascism today.

"Fascist response to terrorism"? I suppose you also thought that the WWI and WWII responses by democratic countries were also "fascist" responses"?
 
ScreamingEagle said:
Ironic you say? Notice that they were both "totalitarian" in nature....as is Islamofascism today.
I'm glad you recognize that I understand what "ironic" means.
ScreamingEagle said:
"Fascist response to terrorism"? I suppose you also thought that the WWI and WWII responses by democratic countries were also "fascist" responses"?
Allow me to presume that you might suspect that I also know what "fascist" means; I'll presume further that you know what "fascist" means, and if you are careful, and prescise, I'll just be that you could guess which "responses by democratic countries" might come to mind that are/were certainly fascist, or like fascism, in nature. Yes?
 
LOki said:
I'm glad you recognize that I understand what "ironic" means.Allow me to presume that you might suspect that I also know what "fascist" means; I'll presume further that you know what "fascist" means, and if you are careful, and prescise, I'll just be that you could guess which "responses by democratic countries" might come to mind that are/were certainly fascist, or like fascism, in nature. Yes?

LOL...you need to fall back onto a dictionary to defend your statements?
 
ScreamingEagle said:
LOL...you need to fall back onto a dictionary to defend your statements?
Why are you afraid to make sense?
 
LOki said:
Why are you afraid to make sense?

It's obvious you don't care about Spencer's position. Come on, why don't you just really vent...you know you want to. Tell us more about these "fascist responses".
 
ScreamingEagle said:
It's obvious you don't care about Spencer's position.
I think it's obvious you're wrong.
ScreamingEagle said:
Come on, why don't you just really vent...you know you want to.
I believe I have expressed myself sufficiently.
ScreamingEagle said:
Tell us more about these "fascist responses".
I cannot fathom the usefulness of pointing out to you what I have already presumed is apparent to you.
 
Of course the informed already know Islam condones violence and murder. It's time to call Islam what it is. A religion of violence whose believers practice and condone the killing of others. I hope soon our "leaders" including unfortunately George Bush, pull their heads out of their politically correct backsides and open their eyes to the truth.

Bush and the rest are smart enough to know that's not the case. The struggle is not with Islam, it's with a small number of nutcases who are abusing a religion for non-religious purposes. Islam isn't a religion of violence and those who accuse it of being so are either ignorant or wilfully blind to the truth of it. I'm glad that they aren't running the show, they're merely screaming abuse from the sidelines while the real work gets done.
 
Diuretic said:
Bush and the rest are smart enough to know that's not the case. The struggle is not with Islam, it's with a small number of nutcases who are abusing a religion for non-religious purposes. Islam isn't a religion of violence and those who accuse it of being so are either ignorant or wilfully blind to the truth of it. I'm glad that they aren't running the show, they're merely screaming abuse from the sidelines while the real work gets done.
Oh good, someone who really can explain why it's not a religion of violence and rather one of peace. :smoke:
 
Diuretic said:
Bush and the rest are smart enough to know that's not the case. The struggle is not with Islam, it's with a small number of nutcases who are abusing a religion for non-religious purposes. Islam isn't a religion of violence and those who accuse it of being so are either ignorant or wilfully blind to the truth of it. I'm glad that they aren't running the show, they're merely screaming abuse from the sidelines while the real work gets done.

Sure, willfully blind to the truth...truth like bloody riots, terrorist acts, and bombings all over the Muslim world over political cartoons and a fake story about alleged Koran abuse. Yep, it's just a small group of a couple hundred million nutcases.
 
LOki said:
I cannot fathom the usefulness of pointing out to you what I have already presumed is apparent to you.

Why the avoidance? I would think an answer to a simple question would be easy for you.

Don't presume the answer is "apparent"...especially to a Judeo/Christian "theocrat" like myself. :halo:
For the last tiem, what specific "fascist responses" are you talking about?
 
ScreamingEagle said:
Why the avoidance? I would think an answer to a simple question would be easy for you.

Don't presume the answer is "apparent"...especially to a Judeo/Christian "theocrat" like myself. :halo:
For the last tiem, what specific "fascist responses" are you talking about?
Well, if you're asking about WWII, I'd say that internment camps were a rather fascist response considering how the fascists set the standard for rounding up people on the basis of ethnicity.

If you are talking about this current war in Iraq, I'd mention that pre-emptive warfare has been quite the vogue amongst the fascists of history.

Certainly these things are not new to you?

I can predict that you're about to assert that I believe the U.S. is a fascist country run by a fascist, you'll suggest that I'd rather "do nothing" or better yet, insist on U.N. involvement, or some such nonsense. Of course you'd be wrong, because all I'm really pointing out is that these responses are hardly effective, and more importantly, are not worthy of a country known as The Land of the Free.
 
LOki said:
Well, if you're asking about WWII, I'd say that internment camps were a rather fascist response considering how the fascists set the standard for rounding up people on the basis of ethnicity.

If you are talking about this current war in Iraq, I'd mention that pre-emptive warfare has been quite the vogue amongst the fascists of history.

Certainly these things are not new to you?

I can predict that you're about to assert that I believe the U.S. is a fascist country run by a fascist, you'll suggest that I'd rather "do nothing" or better yet, insist on U.N. involvement, or some such nonsense. Of course you'd be wrong, because all I'm really pointing out is that these responses are hardly effective, and more importantly, are not worthy of a country known as The Land of the Free.

The U.S. Dept. of Justice camps were not fascist --- certainly nothing like the Nazi extermination camps in Germany. However imperfect, they were implemented as self-protection measures. I'm all for racial profiling when it's a matter of survival.

So you believe power hungry dictators should be allowed to threaten with nuclear weaponry because we should not act like "unworthy fascists" by instigating preemptive measures in the interest of our own survival? Just what kind of "effective" and "non-fascist" response do you suggest?
 
ScreamingEagle said:
The U.S. Dept. of Justice camps were not fascist --- certainly nothing like the Nazi extermination camps in Germany. However imperfect, they were implemented as self-protection measures.
Fascism justified by the specter of self preservation. Nicely played--by you and the Nazis. :D
ScreamingEagle said:
I'm all for racial profiling when it's a matter of survival.
So you would have supported puting people who looked like Germans in internment camps for "self protection"--funny how that didn't happen. You would now support treating everyone who is ethnically similar to Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kazinski as a terrorist threat for "self protection"--funny, i don't see that happening either. It is patently clear that for "self protectionists" of your kind, racial profiling is only justifiable for protecting whites.
ScreamingEagle said:
So you believe power hungry dictators should be allowed to threaten with nuclear weaponry...
Firstly, Saddam had no nukes. Secondly, nations have a right to their own nuclear weapons exactly as we have a right to ours, and for the same reasons we have a right to ours.
ScreamingEagle said:
...because we should not act like "unworthy fascists" by instigating preemptive measures in the interest of our own survival?
Starting a war is not in the interest of our survival--certainly not our survival as a free nation of free people.
ScreamingEagle said:
Just what kind of "effective" and "non-fascist" response do you suggest?
We were effectively keeping Saddam's bullshit contained--we didn't have to start this "war of liberation" that the Iraqis couldn't start themselves. Now what we have is civil war in Iraq, which should have, and could have, happened without us--but get this, in the rabid zeal to fight a war on "terrorism", we have brought Al-Qaeda to a hands-on training ground against the U.S. where they, and we, weren't before. Well played again. :thup:

I'd make sure that "undocumented" (heh) immigrants became well aware that their illegal status meant that they were likely terrorist suspects--10 business days to get your paperwork in order, or get out of the country. I certainly would not have signed any extension of the assault weapons ban. In fact, I'd probably find a way to cut funding to schools that did not teach assualt weapons safety--using the exact same argument used for safe-sex education requirements in public schools. I'd have spent less time finding new ways to infringe the privacy rights of U.S. citizens, and spent more time gathering credible intelligence on the actual nuclear threats presented by N. Korea and--FUCKING SURRPRISE!!!!--Iran. I think I would have played the smart game of spending less time and resources disrupting Saddam any more than what was already being done by everyone else, and spent more time in re-establishing our own intelligence infrastructure so I could get that information about N.Korea and Iran. I think I'd have spent alot less time making up bullshit rationalizations for invading Iraq, and instead would have let his neighbors continue to worry him, while I concentrated on the legit target, Afghanistan, and made sure that Osama and the Taliban were really finished.
 
LOki said:
Fascism justified by the specter of self preservation. Nicely played--by you and the Nazis. :D
So you would have supported puting people who looked like Germans in internment camps for "self protection"--funny how that didn't happen. You would now support treating everyone who is ethnically similar to Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kazinski as a terrorist threat for "self protection"--funny, i don't see that happening either. It is patently clear that for "self protectionists" of your kind, racial profiling is only justifiable for protecting whites.
Firstly, Saddam had no nukes. Secondly, nations have a right to their own nuclear weapons exactly as we have a right to ours, and for the same reasons we have a right to ours.
Starting a war is not in the interest of our survival--certainly not our survival as a free nation of free people.We were effectively keeping Saddam's bullshit contained--we didn't have to start this "war of liberation" that the Iraqis couldn't start themselves. Now what we have is civil war in Iraq, which should have, and could have, happened without us--but get this, in the rabid zeal to fight a war on "terrorism", we have brought Al-Qaeda to a hands-on training ground against the U.S. where they, and we, weren't before. Well played again. :thup:

I'd make sure that "undocumented" (heh) immigrants became well aware that their illegal status meant that they were likely terrorist suspects--10 business days to get your paperwork in order, or get out of the country. I certainly would not have signed any extension of the assault weapons ban. In fact, I'd probably find a way to cut funding to schools that did not teach assualt weapons safety--using the exact same argument used for safe-sex education requirements in public schools. I'd have spent less time finding new ways to infringe the privacy rights of U.S. citizens, and spent more time gathering credible intelligence on the actual nuclear threats presented by N. Korea and--FUCKING SURRPRISE!!!!--Iran. I think I would have played the smart game of spending less time and resources disrupting Saddam any more than what was already being done by everyone else, and spent more time in re-establishing our own intelligence infrastructure so I could get that information about N.Korea and Iran. I think I'd have spent alot less time making up bullshit rationalizations for invading Iraq, and instead would have let his neighbors continue to worry him, while I concentrated on the legit target, Afghanistan, and made sure that Osama and the Taliban were really finished.

Heh, just as I thought. Another liberal on the board.

Next time things get hot in the terrorist war I'd like to see you calmly get on a plane with half a dozen unprofiled, uninspected young Arab men. I'm sure you wouldn't mind at all... You libs will sacrifice self-preservation of this country with your idiotic claims of fairness.

And you are wrong about the U.S. internment camps not putting German-looking people in them. In fact there was a large component of the camps composed of people of Germans and Italians in addition to the Japanese. They were also discriminated against when the Japs got compensated for their pains but they didn't.

Your "Saddam had no nukes" claim is after-the-fact rhetoric. There was no proof of that before the war but there was every indication that he was hiding them. It was a nasty standoff with a nasty, brazen dictator who had already proven he would use WOMD. You liberals are always fine with appeasement but only when it is in your self-interest. It's the same today...or pls tell me, what is the pro-war stance of the Dems regarding Iran? I wonder, do you even support the troops in Iraq? Seems like that would be contrary to your "rational" thinking...

By the way, your pro-gun stance doesn't impress me. Libs lost that argument long ago so it doesn't hurt them now to agree with it.
 
ScreamingEagle said:
Heh, just as I thought. Another liberal on the board.
Hahaha! The "you're a liberal" dismissal--how predictably dumbass. Just because my responses don't stroke your jingo/racist/religio sensibilities, it does not follow that I'm a "Liberal."

I will admit, however, to not conforming to the jingo/racist/religio sensibilities of the new white/fascist/corporatist/republican fear mongering paradigm.

ScreamingEagle said:
Next time things get hot in the terrorist war I'd like to see you calmly get on a plane with half a dozen unprofiled, uninspected young Arab men. I'm sure you wouldn't mind at all...
I won't have as much problem with them, as I will with you, running around in your summer dress and pink bonnet screaming "OH NOES!!! AYRABS!!!!"
ScreamingEagle said:
You libs will sacrifice self-preservation of this country with your idiotic claims of fairness.
I'm not about fairness, I'm about freedom--and retards of you ilk will sacrifice every liberty to the "The War On Terror (TM)" as long as your personal complacent "safety trance" might in any manner be disturbed.
ScreamingEagle said:
And you are wrong about the U.S. internment camps not putting German-looking people in them. In fact there was a large component of the camps composed of people of Germans and Italians in addition to the Japanese.
I see that you are right about German- and Italian-American internment, but I still see nothing in the way of establishing this internment to be the right thing to do. In fact, it appears that interenment is universally construed as wrong, unconsitutional and eerily fascist, which seems to agree with my position on the practice, rather than yours.

Odd, though--if you are really going to go for the retarded gusto of defending internment camps as freedom and American as apple pie, why not take the position that internemnt was done for the good of the interned?
ScreamingEagle said:
Your "Saddam had no nukes" claim is after-the-fact rhetoric.
It's seems rather well documented that this is not so.
ScreamingEagle said:
There was no proof of that before the war but there was every indication that he was hiding them.
There's no proof that you have no nukes, but that's no reason to kick in you door.
ScreamingEagle said:
It was a nasty standoff with a nasty, brazen dictator who had already proven he would use WOMD.
Yes, yes--Saddam is a first class turd--but what of Kim Jong-il, and Robert Mugabe, and Charles Taylor, and Fidel Castro, and Muammar Qaddafi, and Omar al-Bashir, and Than Shwe, and Hu Jintao--all assholes of the first caliber, and all richly deserving of "regime change", yet we bravely pick on the guy who we already kicked down, who is already hemmed in by sanctions, who (if we are to accept you assertion that Saddam's lack of nuke capacity was unknown) may have nukes, instead of going at the known nuclear threats. I'm not buying this "we were playing chicken with a mmmaaaAAAAADDDdddd man" rhetoric.
ScreamingEagle said:
You liberals are always fine with appeasement but only when it is in your self-interest.
First, eat chain shit-knuckle, for "you liberals," and secondly go fuck youself with that "appeasement" bullshit, as I said nothing of the sort.
ScreamingEagle said:
It's the same today...or pls tell me, what is the pro-war stance of the Dems regarding Iran?
I wouldn't know, but since the Democrats are just the other totalitarian political party, I'm sure it's a bullshit excuse to further encroach on liberty.
ScreamingEagle said:
I wonder, do you even support the troops in Iraq?
Ah, you tug at the little patriotic heart strings--how banal, how utterly without thought, how monumentally predictable.
ScreamingEagle said:
Seems like that would be contrary to your "rational" thinking...
I am not at all surpised that you would not consider supporting our troops rational.
ScreamingEagle said:
By the way, your pro-gun stance doesn't impress me. Libs lost that argument long ago so it doesn't hurt them now to agree with it.
They actually won that one.

By the way, your jingoism, distain for reason, and patheticly insipid appeal-to-emotion dismissals don't impress anybody.
 

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