Zone1 Religion is not needed if a "golden rule" is valued

[zaangalewa]

at least you are not a jew,

Who knows this?

next up christianity ... save yourself.

Ahem. ... Who should save oneselve in a spiritual sense of this word? A Christian? Why? For what? How?

 

[zaangalewa]

You really don't need to teach it. People innately understand, which is why all will answer to God for not following their conscience.

As Socrates once said, who predated Christ, "One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him"

Only to make something clear in this context: Sokrates never said anything to us directly. Others told us what he said. And one of the worst 'philosophical' sentences is "I know that I know nothing". That's only nonsense. We know something. Not good enough perhaps, but we do not only know nothing. I heard Soctates once said: "My authority bases on the fact that I know on exact reasons what we do not know." For sure we do not know what we do not know. And we do also do not know what others know and not know.

And in general did none of the "atheistic" philosophers of the ancient Greeks "predate" Christ or monotheism. The Greek culture had been very pessimistic. "It's better not to be born" was a wide spread opinion in the Greek world. By the way: The lingua franka in the Roman empire had been Greek, not Latin. Into this depressive atmosphere the Christian faith came like a warm summer rain and many things suddenly made sense which ancient atheistic philosophers had said before.

And to be honest: I do not see any sense in a rule like: "One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him." Why should someone do so? If even the highest representatives of the USA not had been able to follow this rule in case of Osama Bin Laden ´- what is worthy such a rule?

We all know the Golden Rule, yet we all break the Golden Rule at some point despite this. That is because we are fighting darker forces more powerful than we are, which is why we need God to break our chains and set us free.

Sounds very pathetic but when someoine will kill a member of my family then I will just simple kill him in return. Whether I will really do so or not is another theme, because I do not know now what I really will do in case such an unbelievable crime. This would be a totally new situaion for me. But it is better such a criminal idiot knows he will not survive.

 

[BreezeWood]

Ahem. ... Who should save oneselve in a spiritual sense of this word? A Christian? Why? For what? How?

christians live in sin, the religion of antiquity is to triumph over sin as taught by jesus and was the reason for the 1st century events - the repudiation of judaism.

the 4th century christian bible deliberately replaces the teachings of jesus and those that gave their lives for the true religion - for their 4th century religion of servitude and denial.

 

[zaangalewa]

christians live in sin,

I guess all human beings - and not only Christians - are sinners.

the religion of antiquity

?

is to triumph over sin as taught by jesus and was the reason for the 1st century events - the repudiation of judaism.

The what? ... ¿Ablehnung des Judentums? ... Sorry: But the problem was the repudiation of the children of god. "Christians" had been a Jewish sect. And "repudiation" of the own parents means with other words: to find a new identity. When the Jews had to flee 70 BC then all over the Roman empire lived in this Greek world other "Jews" - also called Christians - who had helped this displaced Jews. What is today called anti-Semitism did not exist in the first thousand years of the Christian religion. This nonsense came with the first crusade. And I doubt in general about that Jews still would exist if not also Christians had existed - reason: Good deeds are often as invisible as god is invisible while everything what goes wrong fills skyscrapers of prejudices.

the 4th century christian bible deliberately replaces the teachings of jesus and those that gave their lives for the true religion - for their 4th century religion of servitude and denial.

Nice cliche of the modern mentally deficient atheists who understand every English speaking alien from the Andromada galaxy but not their neighbors. The books of the bible existed a long time ago. The bible itselve is only a reference list, a quality seal. Reason for the creation of the bible was it to avoid confusion. What's written in the bible are authentic textes.

 

[BreezeWood]

Sorry: But the problem was the repudiation of the children of god. "Christians" had been a Jewish sect.

those are neither they are the confluence of judaism and 4th century christianity who crucified jesus for their heavenly mission, liberation theology, self determination to keep for themselves their false religions of servitude and denial.

 

[zaangalewa]

those are neither they are the confluence of judaism

The confluence of "Greekism" with "Judaism" into "Christianism" . "-ism" is normally written for ideologies. But the Christian religion is no ideology as well as also the Jewish and Greek cultures and traditions are not ideologies.

and 4th century christianity who crucified jesus

I guess now came the moment not to try to take serios any longer what you say, You seem to love nonsense. What about to become a comedian? That's a very honorful profession and as a comedian your are able to use all forms of nonsense in all discussions.

for their heavenly mission, liberation theology,

Is an expression from the 20th century. Most people do not know what this means and this nice expressions causes many misunderstandings and is unfortunatelly not only positive to see. Cardinal Gerhard Müller shocked me a lot when he said he follows this form of theology. From my point of view he seems to follow only one freedom: the own freedom.

self determination

?

to keep for themselves

?

their

?

false

?

religions

??

of servitude

To serve god is a free decision which makes free. On the other side: All forms of destructive behavior against life - with the own free will or against the own free will - make unfree - specially the victims of such deeds but also the culprits who cause this are unfree.

and denial.

?

 

[ViewFromAbove]

No one should confuse "independent thinking" with taking the opposite point of view. That is not thinking at all, it is taking the contrary position of another's independent thoughts. Being contrary is a trait of most two-year-olds.

I wouldn't recommend happiness as one's primary goal in life, although it might have worked when we were two.

Truly, I don't mean to come across as snarky, when I am merely puzzled by your philosophy.

Why would you not recommend happiness as a primary goal in life? Of course, with empathy, respect for others, and fairness as major values in a social/cultural environment, one would be happiest if others were happy too.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

What were you looking for intellectually? And why did you think you could find it studying religious behaviors and philosophies? Seriously. Growing up we had a set of Encyclopedias and a Bible. When I wanted fact-knowledge, I read an Encyclopedia. When I wanted wisdom-knowledge, I found some books of the Bible helpful. That is, as long as I stayed away from Solomon. As a kid, I pretty much thought he did some mighty stupid and foolish things despite the praise being heaped on him for being wise about who had the right to a specific baby.

I was looking to see if any others were happy for reasons I did not understand. I tend to be open-minded and curious; love to explore ... until I find what I am looking for. Since there are MANY things we do not understand about Nature and our Universe, I will always be curious to explore with practical methods.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

You really don't need to teach it. People innately understand, which is why all will answer to God for not following their conscience.

As Socrates once said, who predated Christ, "One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him"

We all know the Golden Rule, yet we all break the Golden Rule at some point despite this. That is because we are fighting darker forces more powerful than we are, which is why we need God to break our chains and set us free.

I don't share your mythical views. I am a scientist, with agnostic philosophy. God is an antiquated concept, along with "dark forces" (devil?).

 

[Invisibleflash]

There are MANY religions, and most are thousands of years old when few were able to read, and even fewer understood scientific knowledge about the universe that is evident today.
Which religion is best? Why would you choose a religion when its leaders don't understand natural, scientific reality?

Empathy and a golden rule is all one needs to be "ethical".

Yes...but humans have a hard time at it without the burning in hell part.

If we were ants or bees, we could be good commies...but we can't.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

No idea what you speak about now. Do you speak about a biological, a psychological, a cultural or social phenomenon? How to learn what you call "empathy"? Is everyone able to learn this? What are the positive and what are the negative aspects? What is the difference to the old simple word "compassion"?



Egocentrism (individualism, profit motives) is the standard "philosophy" (ideology) of the "modern" unchristian world.

I was using terms understood in academic psychology.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Yes...but humans have a hard time at it without the burning in hell part.

If we were ants or bees, we could be good commies...but we can't.

View attachment 883513

Hell is a fantasy, like heaven. Get real with Nature, that we connect to.

 

[Meriweather]

Why would you not recommend happiness as a primary goal in life? Of course, with empathy, respect for others, and fairness as major values in a social/cultural environment, one would be happiest if others were happy too.

Consider all that is happening around you. With all that is going on, the most important thing is for you to be happy?

 

[Grumblenuts]

With all that is going on, the most important thing is for you to be happy?

You just quoted VFA's actual words. Why not just address them honestly?

 

[zaangalewa]

I was using terms understood in academic psychology.

I fear I know a little more about academic psychology than you know on your own. And in general I fear I have to say have that academic psychology lost a lot of very interesting aspects since the USA is dominating this science. Always only to try to find a reproducable behavior in everything is always also a little in confrontation with the unbelievable high degree of freedom of human beings.

Psychology nevertheless tries to explain behavior. So psychology speaks about "empathy" as a psychological phenomenon. But this gives "empathy" not any moral direction. "Compassion" gives such a direction. And we are not only created to be an "I"ndividual we are also created to be a "we". That's why we speak with each other here for example. The "ability to use language" in psychological dimensions makes on the other side absolutelly not clear what we speak about and what will be the consequences. That's the same with empathy. The use of empathy is perhaps more free than you think it is. And who has no empathy at all is biologically not sane and needs our all compassion and help to be able to follow "unchangeable social conventions" such as for example "not to kill others". Such rules are no question of "empathy or no empathy".

 

[Meriweather]

Why not just address them honestly?

I wanted to make you Grumble.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Do unto VFA as you would have VFA make me Grumble?

 

[ding]

Why would you choose a religion when its leaders don't understand natural, scientific reality?

For the same reason I don't choose my tailor based upon his understanding of chess.

 

[ding]

All 3 Abraham religions are based on mythical stories written by unknown authors. Genesis is BS. God made the first woman from Adam's rib???
All-powerful God took 6 whole days & nights to create "Earth"? Did I get that right?

No. Not exactly.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were credited to Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

The first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia which was an actual historical event. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people - like yourself - don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

 

[ding]

Religion is not needed at all.

Religion is the bane of humankind.

That's exactly what the militant atheists regimes of the 20th century thought too.