Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

[BreezeWood]

.

ever so much of what constitutes the advancement of civilization is secular in nature and has always been so, fought tooth and nail by religious fanatics.

the scripted religions have no unifying theme as they deny the others existence, their conflicts are eternal.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

that is not what you posted ....

Prove that good things can be done without religion!

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical.

there was nothing rhetorical about your post, the fact is good things are done daily without (your) religion where honesty and care prevail over bigotry. the UN is a perfect example of progress through shared objectives the goals of which have nothing to do with scripted religion.

the same for everyday events in nature the criteria is the same, call it whatever you like separate from any madeup psychosis portraying humanity as some sort of singular quality.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion. I personally think, just the basic idea of the U.N. is rooted in human spirituality. So you don't have a point here and you'll never make this point because you reside in a universe where human spirituality exists and always will.

.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion.

you seem incapable of disseminating the facts presented when contrary to your personal opinion, like conversing with a brick wall ....

you now are equating Spirituality with religion (scriptural) and that beings both secular and Spiritual can not exist, to bad for you. that is what the spoken religions of Antiquity were always in flux for the final truth, a truth satisfactory for both secularism and spirituality by veracity.

 

[Boss]

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

that is not what you posted ....

Prove that good things can be done without religion!

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical.

there was nothing rhetorical about your post, the fact is good things are done daily without (your) religion where honesty and care prevail over bigotry. the UN is a perfect example of progress through shared objectives the goals of which have nothing to do with scripted religion.

the same for everyday events in nature the criteria is the same, call it whatever you like separate from any madeup psychosis portraying humanity as some sort of singular quality.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion. I personally think, just the basic idea of the U.N. is rooted in human spirituality. So you don't have a point here and you'll never make this point because you reside in a universe where human spirituality exists and always will.

.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion.

you seem incapable of disseminating the facts presented when contrary to your personal opinion, like conversing with a brick wall ....

you now are equating Spirituality with religion (scriptural) and that beings both secular and Spiritual can not exist, to bad for you. that is what the spoken religions of Antiquity were always in flux for the final truth, a truth satisfactory for both secularism and spirituality by veracity.

This is simply a matter of you misinterpreting something I said, in spite of me telling you it was rhetorical and explaining it to you like a three year old.

If I stated that people can't live without breathing, you are not proving me wrong by holding your breath. You've misinterpreted me. I said, prove good can be done without religion... it's a rhetorical request because religion exists. I didn't ask for an example of secular good. I understand there are countless examples of that. However, you cannot prove those examples would exist in a world without religion.

And yes, for the sake of argument, I am exchanging religious and spiritual. I understand the difference, you know I understand the difference, you also understand the context in this argument makes it obtuse to nitpick. But you're determined to act three years old.

 

[Boss]

Also, neither of you are presenting facts. You are giving your opinion and trying to do it authoritatively, as if that makes you factual.

 

[Mudda]

Also, neither of you are presenting facts. You are giving your opinion and trying to do it authoritatively, as if that makes you factual.

Sort of like you do when you talk about god? So why dump on them for doing what you do yourself?

 

[ScienceRocks]

I hate to say this but religion makes you a hateful, closed minded asshole to millions of people that choose to be different. I don't know how treating people like shit makes you more ethical.

 

[RWS]

.

ever so much of what constitutes the advancement of civilization is secular in nature and has always been so, fought tooth and nail by religious fanatics.

the scripted religions have no unifying theme as they deny the others existence, their conflicts are eternal.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

that is not what you posted ....

Prove that good things can be done without religion!

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical.

there was nothing rhetorical about your post, the fact is good things are done daily without (your) religion where honesty and care prevail over bigotry. the UN is a perfect example of progress through shared objectives the goals of which have nothing to do with scripted religion.

the same for everyday events in nature the criteria is the same, call it whatever you like separate from any madeup psychosis portraying humanity as some sort of singular quality.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion. I personally think, just the basic idea of the U.N. is rooted in human spirituality. So you don't have a point here and you'll never make this point because you reside in a universe where human spirituality exists and always will.

Again, you're confusing spirituality with religion. Religion is when people looking for power, fool people seeking explanations for their innate spirituality to follow them, to benefit their goal for power and wealth, and then institutionalize it to guarantee future growth, power, and wealth after the first ruler is dead. To the detriment of the followers that were seeking truth. They get converted into soldiers and money-making machines, and fuel the religious empire.

If you're a spiritual person, and intelligent enough to realize the truth that religious history has presented, then there is no way you can follow an institutionalized religion. But if you do, then you lack ethics and morals, since you dismiss the truth that made the Religion powerful enough to conquer your ancestors and then dictate your future religious allegiance. Since most people believe their religion because they were born into it.

If someone can believe in the religion, yet laugh off the evils it took to get them there, and just say it was stupidity and part of the past, then they have accepted a deep moral crack in their souls. Which is yearning to be cracked further open, once necessary again.

 

[RWS]

.

ever so much of what constitutes the advancement of civilization is secular in nature and has always been so, fought tooth and nail by religious fanatics.

the scripted religions have no unifying theme as they deny the others existence, their conflicts are eternal.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

that is not what you posted ....

Prove that good things can be done without religion!

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

Whoa dude, calling us obnoxious little bitter shits? You're getting a bit bitter there yourself bossman for no reason, considering that you're trying to persuade people here to like you. Even though you don't believe in their religion. And just arguing for shits and giggles.... and "like points" and "fantasy sex points". Honestly, that stuff doesn't matter (the forum like/sex points). The truth matters.

Oh, and before that you called me a bigot? Really?? The religions you argue for comprise the biggest bigots ever in the history of humanity! They are the most intolerant people that ever existed!

You gotta be kiddin me....

You don't have truth on your side. Your entire argument is dishonest. You continue to personally attack me because I've called you out and destroyed your baseless points with common sense and reason. I'm not bitter and I don't care if you like me. I'm not calling you a religious bigot to attack you, I'm stating what your post makes you. If you don't like being a bigot, stop being one.

And I will try once more to convey this to you... all religious people are not the same. In fact, there is virtually no group of individuals you can apply broad generalizations to as you continue to do here. By the way, that is the hallmark attribute of a bigot... That's what bigots do.

What?!? You are the one throwing insults around. I called you a troll, because you are. That's obvious from your own statements. You're just here to argue, even though you have said repeatedly that you don't believe in religion. I understand that you initially got yourself into this, maybe by accident, and now you have to defend yourself to save face. But your arguments were very weak to begin with, and are now veering heavily into ridicule, hostility, and name-calling due to your frustration. You can save face by just dropping the argument, and you'll be forgotten 2 pages from now... And nobody will think less of you. You get to keep your "likes", and ride off into the sunset on your high horse. But I don't think your ego will allow you to do that....

So you will argue, as the Devil's Advocate, for institutionalized religions that you don't believe in... Very ironic, huh?

 

[Mousterian]

Religion serves only to enslave. Insisting that 'moral' behavior is required by a god who will punish you for indiscretions, is just a tool to make people subservient to that god's Earthly representatives.
Christianity had the chance to become a credible institution, had they followed the teachings of Jesus.
But they (the idiots in charge back in 325CE) decided to include a heap of rubbish bronze-age mythology, (the Old Testament) in their new book.
Shame, the Golden Rule has had some really antisocial prohibitions tacked on to it.
That's why so many 'Christians' only love their neighbor if he/she is straight, the right color, and, most importantly, the same religion.

 

[Boss]

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

that is not what you posted ....

Prove that good things can be done without religion!

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

Whoa dude, calling us obnoxious little bitter shits? You're getting a bit bitter there yourself bossman for no reason, considering that you're trying to persuade people here to like you. Even though you don't believe in their religion. And just arguing for shits and giggles.... and "like points" and "fantasy sex points". Honestly, that stuff doesn't matter (the forum like/sex points). The truth matters.

Oh, and before that you called me a bigot? Really?? The religions you argue for comprise the biggest bigots ever in the history of humanity! They are the most intolerant people that ever existed!

You gotta be kiddin me....

You don't have truth on your side. Your entire argument is dishonest. You continue to personally attack me because I've called you out and destroyed your baseless points with common sense and reason. I'm not bitter and I don't care if you like me. I'm not calling you a religious bigot to attack you, I'm stating what your post makes you. If you don't like being a bigot, stop being one.

And I will try once more to convey this to you... all religious people are not the same. In fact, there is virtually no group of individuals you can apply broad generalizations to as you continue to do here. By the way, that is the hallmark attribute of a bigot... That's what bigots do.

What?!? You are the one throwing insults around. I called you a troll, because you are. That's obvious from your own statements. You're just here to argue, even though you have said repeatedly that you don't believe in religion. I understand that you initially got yourself into this, maybe by accident, and now you have to defend yourself to save face. But your arguments were very weak to begin with, and are now veering heavily into ridicule, hostility, and name-calling due to your frustration. You can save face by just dropping the argument, and you'll be forgotten 2 pages from now... And nobody will think less of you. You get to keep your "likes", and ride off into the sunset on your high horse. But I don't think your ego will allow you to do that....

So you will argue, as the Devil's Advocate, for institutionalized religions that you don't believe in... Very ironic, huh?

It has nothing to do with ego. My contention is with your OP argument. I don't think you came close to making the case. I'm not calling you names, I just explained how you are a bigot based on what you're posting. You can get mad and try to run me off but you're going to fail at that as well.

 

[Boss]

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

.

The U.N. isn't a charity organization, try again,

that is not what you posted ....

Prove that good things can be done without religion!

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical.

there was nothing rhetorical about your post, the fact is good things are done daily without (your) religion where honesty and care prevail over bigotry. the UN is a perfect example of progress through shared objectives the goals of which have nothing to do with scripted religion.

the same for everyday events in nature the criteria is the same, call it whatever you like separate from any madeup psychosis portraying humanity as some sort of singular quality.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion. I personally think, just the basic idea of the U.N. is rooted in human spirituality. So you don't have a point here and you'll never make this point because you reside in a universe where human spirituality exists and always will.

Again, you're confusing spirituality with religion. Religion is when people looking for power, fool people seeking explanations for their innate spirituality to follow them, to benefit their goal for power and wealth, and then institutionalize it to guarantee future growth, power, and wealth after the first ruler is dead. To the detriment of the followers that were seeking truth. They get converted into soldiers and money-making machines, and fuel the religious empire.

If you're a spiritual person, and intelligent enough to realize the truth that religious history has presented, then there is no way you can follow an institutionalized religion. But if you do, then you lack ethics and morals, since you dismiss the truth that made the Religion powerful enough to conquer your ancestors and then dictate your future religious allegiance. Since most people believe their religion because they were born into it.

If someone can believe in the religion, yet laugh off the evils it took to get them there, and just say it was stupidity and part of the past, then they have accepted a deep moral crack in their souls. Which is yearning to be cracked further open, once necessary again.

Again, I disagree that religion lacks ethics and morals and you haven't established that as a matter of fact. It may be your opinion... just like the opinions of others chiming in... that doesn't make something a fact.

You are all anti-christian bigots who dislike the influence of the religious in politics, especially social issues. Why can't you just admit that truth?

 

[Boss]

I hate to say this but religion makes you a hateful, closed minded asshole to millions of people that choose to be different. I don't know how treating people like shit makes you more ethical.

That's funny because there seems to be no shortage of intolerant hateful assholes with closed minds and no religion in this very thread.

 

[PK1]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an "oxymoron"... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

All we need is the "Golden Rule".
Religion is much ado about nothing.

 

[RWS]

.
that is not what you posted ....

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

Whoa dude, calling us obnoxious little bitter shits? You're getting a bit bitter there yourself bossman for no reason, considering that you're trying to persuade people here to like you. Even though you don't believe in their religion. And just arguing for shits and giggles.... and "like points" and "fantasy sex points". Honestly, that stuff doesn't matter (the forum like/sex points). The truth matters.

Oh, and before that you called me a bigot? Really?? The religions you argue for comprise the biggest bigots ever in the history of humanity! They are the most intolerant people that ever existed!

You gotta be kiddin me....

You don't have truth on your side. Your entire argument is dishonest. You continue to personally attack me because I've called you out and destroyed your baseless points with common sense and reason. I'm not bitter and I don't care if you like me. I'm not calling you a religious bigot to attack you, I'm stating what your post makes you. If you don't like being a bigot, stop being one.

And I will try once more to convey this to you... all religious people are not the same. In fact, there is virtually no group of individuals you can apply broad generalizations to as you continue to do here. By the way, that is the hallmark attribute of a bigot... That's what bigots do.

What?!? You are the one throwing insults around. I called you a troll, because you are. That's obvious from your own statements. You're just here to argue, even though you have said repeatedly that you don't believe in religion. I understand that you initially got yourself into this, maybe by accident, and now you have to defend yourself to save face. But your arguments were very weak to begin with, and are now veering heavily into ridicule, hostility, and name-calling due to your frustration. You can save face by just dropping the argument, and you'll be forgotten 2 pages from now... And nobody will think less of you. You get to keep your "likes", and ride off into the sunset on your high horse. But I don't think your ego will allow you to do that....

So you will argue, as the Devil's Advocate, for institutionalized religions that you don't believe in... Very ironic, huh?

It has nothing to do with ego. My contention is with your OP argument. I don't think you came close to making the case. I'm not calling you names, I just explained how you are a bigot based on what you're posting. You can get mad and try to run me off but you're going to fail at that as well.

I'm not trying to run you off, was just giving you an out so you can save face, since your contributions are merely serving to devolve this thread into insults. You're not bringing anything to the table, dude. Except trolling. Jus sayin...

My OP is crystal clear. And based on historical fact. Yet, you continue to argue the "fantasy" that you don't believe in... very strange...

 

[RWS]

.
that is not what you posted ....

religion has nothing to do with our gov't in fact and a majority of the others, it's people like you and ISIS that are trying to impose yourselves on others that has always been the bain of the civilized community.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical.

there was nothing rhetorical about your post, the fact is good things are done daily without (your) religion where honesty and care prevail over bigotry. the UN is a perfect example of progress through shared objectives the goals of which have nothing to do with scripted religion.

the same for everyday events in nature the criteria is the same, call it whatever you like separate from any madeup psychosis portraying humanity as some sort of singular quality.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion. I personally think, just the basic idea of the U.N. is rooted in human spirituality. So you don't have a point here and you'll never make this point because you reside in a universe where human spirituality exists and always will.

Again, you're confusing spirituality with religion. Religion is when people looking for power, fool people seeking explanations for their innate spirituality to follow them, to benefit their goal for power and wealth, and then institutionalize it to guarantee future growth, power, and wealth after the first ruler is dead. To the detriment of the followers that were seeking truth. They get converted into soldiers and money-making machines, and fuel the religious empire.

If you're a spiritual person, and intelligent enough to realize the truth that religious history has presented, then there is no way you can follow an institutionalized religion. But if you do, then you lack ethics and morals, since you dismiss the truth that made the Religion powerful enough to conquer your ancestors and then dictate your future religious allegiance. Since most people believe their religion because they were born into it.

If someone can believe in the religion, yet laugh off the evils it took to get them there, and just say it was stupidity and part of the past, then they have accepted a deep moral crack in their souls. Which is yearning to be cracked further open, once necessary again.

Again, I disagree that religion lacks ethics and morals and you haven't established that as a matter of fact. It may be your opinion... just like the opinions of others chiming in... that doesn't make something a fact.

You are all anti-christian bigots who dislike the influence of the religious in politics, especially social issues. Why can't you just admit that truth?

Can't speak for others, but I'm against any religious zealot having anything to do with politics and world affairs. They are the problem, not the solution... They seek to stoke religious flames to further their goals. Doesn't matter what religion.

 

[RWS]

I hate to say this but religion makes you a hateful, closed minded asshole to millions of people that choose to be different. I don't know how treating people like shit makes you more ethical.

That's funny because there seems to be no shortage of intolerant hateful assholes with closed minds and no religion in this very thread.

Maybe because we're right?

Matthew posted a very true statement of why people are rejecting religions today. It's a truth that people are now realizing more and more, especially with the advent of technology and enlightenment. We're no longer just stickin with what we were born with... We realize the meaning of these institutionalized religions, and what they did, and we choose to not follow them due to our personal ethics and morals.

You did the same apparently. Yet you argue differently. And you will continue to do so, because you need to, to feed your ego. Without providing reason or logic.

 

[RWS]

Let's turn this argument into a simple logic test based on all his posts:

Boss argues that ethics and morality are due to religion.

Boss does not believe in a religion.

Therefore Boss has no ethics or morality...

 

[Boss]

Let's turn this argument into a simple logic test based on all his posts:

Boss argues that ethics and morality are due to religion.

Boss does not believe in a religion.

Therefore Boss has no ethics or morality...

No. Boss believes that ethics, morality AND religion are all manifest from our unique spirituality. You again show a view where generalizations are applied with broad strokes. People are different, things happen in degrees. Ethics and morality are ever-changing and vary from culture to culture.

You don't have all the answers, you don't have any answers. You just want to pontificate your opinion and silence disagreement. I'm not cooperating and that's frustrating you.

This is another thing I find typical of bigots, they lack the ability to debate their ideas. It always boils down to, believe as I do or shut up. When you run across people like me, you have to marginalize us by calling us trolls or attempt to humiliate and intimidate.

None of that works on me because I know your tactics.

 

[Boss]

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone, dipshit. Will you please stop being a dishonest jerk? Why the fuck do you insist on acting this way?

Do either of you believe you're persuading people by being obnoxious little bitter shits?

.

The UN doesn't prove good things can be done without religion because religion still exists. My question was rhetorical.

there was nothing rhetorical about your post, the fact is good things are done daily without (your) religion where honesty and care prevail over bigotry. the UN is a perfect example of progress through shared objectives the goals of which have nothing to do with scripted religion.

the same for everyday events in nature the criteria is the same, call it whatever you like separate from any madeup psychosis portraying humanity as some sort of singular quality.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion. I personally think, just the basic idea of the U.N. is rooted in human spirituality. So you don't have a point here and you'll never make this point because you reside in a universe where human spirituality exists and always will.

Again, you're confusing spirituality with religion. Religion is when people looking for power, fool people seeking explanations for their innate spirituality to follow them, to benefit their goal for power and wealth, and then institutionalize it to guarantee future growth, power, and wealth after the first ruler is dead. To the detriment of the followers that were seeking truth. They get converted into soldiers and money-making machines, and fuel the religious empire.

If you're a spiritual person, and intelligent enough to realize the truth that religious history has presented, then there is no way you can follow an institutionalized religion. But if you do, then you lack ethics and morals, since you dismiss the truth that made the Religion powerful enough to conquer your ancestors and then dictate your future religious allegiance. Since most people believe their religion because they were born into it.

If someone can believe in the religion, yet laugh off the evils it took to get them there, and just say it was stupidity and part of the past, then they have accepted a deep moral crack in their souls. Which is yearning to be cracked further open, once necessary again.

Again, I disagree that religion lacks ethics and morals and you haven't established that as a matter of fact. It may be your opinion... just like the opinions of others chiming in... that doesn't make something a fact.

You are all anti-christian bigots who dislike the influence of the religious in politics, especially social issues. Why can't you just admit that truth?

Can't speak for others, but I'm against any religious zealot having anything to do with politics and world affairs. They are the problem, not the solution... They seek to stoke religious flames to further their goals. Doesn't matter what religion.

I know. That's why I said that is what this is all about. That's what is usually behind all these anti-religious threads. What you need to remember is, we live in a religiously free representative democracy, so those people have the same rights as you to shape policy.

 

[RWS]

Let's turn this argument into a simple logic test based on all his posts:

Boss argues that ethics and morality are due to religion.

Boss does not believe in a religion.

Therefore Boss has no ethics or morality...

No. Boss believes that ethics, morality AND religion are all manifest from our unique spirituality. You again show a view where generalizations are applied with broad strokes. People are different, things happen in degrees. Ethics and morality are ever-changing and vary from culture to culture.

You don't have all the answers, you don't have any answers. You just want to pontificate your opinion and silence disagreement. I'm not cooperating and that's frustrating you.

This is another thing I find typical of bigots, they lack the ability to debate their ideas. It always boils down to, believe as I do or shut up. When you run across people like me, you have to marginalize us by calling us trolls or attempt to humiliate and intimidate.

None of that works on me because I know your tactics.

Talking about yourself in third-person is kinda creepy.

Ethics and morality are part of our innate nature, thanks to evolution. Religion just tries to corrupt that nature, and make us do the opposite. Like I said before, anybody who violates their innate ethics or morality, is either insane, or following a religion. Which one are you?

I know I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. But I can rule out some things, to make it a little bit easier. And one of those things is to not follow a religion, at least not one of the OT religions. Buddhism is actually kinda good, but that's not what this thread is about.

And lastly, I have debated my ideas. You've been trolling them, with no reason other than to argue. You haven't brought anything to the table, except to argue my semantics. So yes, you are a troll, and I gave you many outs. You are not special in this thread, as you believe you are. You began with the insults. You have to accept your fate when people don't back down to your insults.

You cannot bully us boss-man. You're only hurting your reputation, whatever of that is left in your circles...

 

[RWS]

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there was nothing rhetorical about your post, the fact is good things are done daily without (your) religion where honesty and care prevail over bigotry. the UN is a perfect example of progress through shared objectives the goals of which have nothing to do with scripted religion.

the same for everyday events in nature the criteria is the same, call it whatever you like separate from any madeup psychosis portraying humanity as some sort of singular quality.

Again, you're missing the point. The U.N. doesn't exist in a universe devoid of religion, therefore, you don't know that they would exist without religion. I personally think, just the basic idea of the U.N. is rooted in human spirituality. So you don't have a point here and you'll never make this point because you reside in a universe where human spirituality exists and always will.

Again, you're confusing spirituality with religion. Religion is when people looking for power, fool people seeking explanations for their innate spirituality to follow them, to benefit their goal for power and wealth, and then institutionalize it to guarantee future growth, power, and wealth after the first ruler is dead. To the detriment of the followers that were seeking truth. They get converted into soldiers and money-making machines, and fuel the religious empire.

If you're a spiritual person, and intelligent enough to realize the truth that religious history has presented, then there is no way you can follow an institutionalized religion. But if you do, then you lack ethics and morals, since you dismiss the truth that made the Religion powerful enough to conquer your ancestors and then dictate your future religious allegiance. Since most people believe their religion because they were born into it.

If someone can believe in the religion, yet laugh off the evils it took to get them there, and just say it was stupidity and part of the past, then they have accepted a deep moral crack in their souls. Which is yearning to be cracked further open, once necessary again.

Again, I disagree that religion lacks ethics and morals and you haven't established that as a matter of fact. It may be your opinion... just like the opinions of others chiming in... that doesn't make something a fact.

You are all anti-christian bigots who dislike the influence of the religious in politics, especially social issues. Why can't you just admit that truth?

Can't speak for others, but I'm against any religious zealot having anything to do with politics and world affairs. They are the problem, not the solution... They seek to stoke religious flames to further their goals. Doesn't matter what religion.

I know. That's why I said that is what this is all about. That's what is usually behind all these anti-religious threads. What you need to remember is, we live in a religiously free representative democracy, so those people have the same rights as you to shape policy.

Exactly why the founding fathers wanted seperation of church and state. So that religious views don't overtake what is good for the people. A religious zealot nowadays, holding power to WMD's, is a very scary thing.