Recent development with Yellowstone Snowmobiling

MtnBiker

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Sep 28, 2003
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Bush snowmobile plans thrown out
WASHINGTON (AP) The National Park Service must revive a plan, scrapped by the Bush administration, to ban snowmobiles from Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks, a federal judge ordered Tuesday.

U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan said the Bush administration should not have set aside a Clinton administration plan that would have banned snowmobiles in favor of mass-transit snow coaches, which would reduce pollution in the parks.

The administration dropped that plan and decided to instead allow limited snowmobiling to continue under rules that only allowed snowmobiles with quieter and less-polluting engines.
The Park Service was set to start operating under the Bush rules today. Sullivan's ruling does not entirely close the parks to snowmobiling.

Instead, he ordered the Park Service to follow the older rules, which will eventually allow only snow coaches - which carry groups of winter visitors - in areas where individual snowmobilers once rode.

A limited number of snowmobilers will be allowed to enter this winter - about 490 per day in Yellowstone and 50 per day in Grand Teton.

The Bush administration plan would have allowed 950 snowmobilers per day in Yellowstone and 400 in Grand Teton, although most would have to ride the less environmentally harmful machines.

The Park Service called the administration plan a balance between its duty to protect the park and its responsibility to allow the public to visit and enjoy it.

In a lawsuit, the Greater Yellowstone Coalition of Bozeman, Mont., argued that the Park Service had ignored its own studies that show a ban on snowmobiles and the use of snow coaches would best protect the park's natural resources.

The group argued that unacceptable pollution and health risks to workers would have continued even with the new emission and entry limits on snowmobiles.

The Park Service had argued that the new plan is based on a generation of cleaner snowmobile engines that weren't considered when the earlier ban was drafted.

Sullivan rejected that argument.
"The prospect of new technology is not 'new,'" the judge wrote, noting that less-polluting machines were considered and rejected when the Clinton administration was deciding how to reduce the harmful effects of snowmobiling.

In separate claims, the Fund for Animals and other environmental groups challenged the practice of grooming snow-covered roads for snowmobile and snow coach use.

Those groups claimed the Park Service dismissed studies indicating groomed roads harm bison by creating unnatural corridors for them to move within and outside of Yellowstone.
Bison that leave Yellowstone in winter can be rounded up or killed under certain circumstances because many carry a disease ranchers fear could be spread to their cattle.

The Fund for Animals wanted Sullivan to order the Park Service to stop grooming most of the roads in Yellowstone - a ban that would effectively stop snowmobiling in those areas.

Sullivan did not do so. Instead, he ordered the Park Service to give an answer to a 1999 petition filed by one of the groups, the Bluewater Network, that sought rules prohibiting trail grooming in all national parks.

The judge did not direct a particular answer, although he said the Park Service must respond to the petition by Feb. 17.


link
 
Thanks for posting this. Good to see the Bush administration getting slapped in the face over this outrageous policy change.
 
So Clinton's plan was to remove snowmobiles in exchange for a 'Mass Transit Snow Coach'?:laugh: That's the most greanie thing I've ever heard.

Such a thing would (1) require the building of a ticket office, employee bunking, and garage (2) depending on the type of vehicle, might also require the installation of a track, and at the very least would result in a beaten path (3) would totally remove the thrill of driving through the snow yourself (4) require the development of a 'Mass Transit Snow Coach,' which would probably be no more efficient than a snowmobile, and even less efficient when only one person wants a ride. The attraction in the winter includes freezing citizens of Moscow waiting for the store to restock on overpriced bread.
 
Hey Mtnbiker, I did know about the conditions. I, in fact, was the first to mention snowmobiles and this policy in another thread about logging. So you don't need to keep me posted on national issues, I read three newspapers a day plus online news.

There should be no snowmobiles in Yellowstone except for emergency purposes. If you want to enjoy the park, do it on foot on skiis, or on a bicycle.
 
Originally posted by acludem
The executive order in question did deal with Yellowstone, but I made a mistake, it stated that Snowmobiles will now by allowed to run in all parts of Yellowstone.

There should be no snowmobiles in Yellowstone except for emergency purposes. If you want to enjoy the park, do it on foot on skiis, or on a bicycle.
In all parts of Yellowstone?
And what about automobiles?
 
There are roads through the park, I would assume (I've never been there). I would also guess that there are some roads for public use, and others that only park staff can use, at least that's how the state and federal parks in my area are set up. Snowmobiles, however, can go just about anywhere, and can be quite detrimental to the wildlife and plantlife in the park. If there are areas where snowmobiling can be done safely without harming the park, fine. Otherwise, keep the snowmobiles out.
 
I agree Acludem, snowmobiles can be detrimental to wildlife. And of course there are always a few idiots that cause problems by not complying to guidelines. It is true that snowmobiles have the ability to go anywhere but are not permitted to do so, in fact snowmobilers into the park must be accompained by a commercial guide and stay on designated roadways with a maximum speed limit of 45 miles per hour. So not much different than automibile use in the summer. A guy in a 4 wheel drive truck has the ability to go off road and do some damage as well, but I doubt there will be a ban on truck use in the park anytime soon.
 
I'm glad to hear that Mtn. In our parks here, trucks have to stay on roadways, if you get caught off-road, you can get a big ticket or even arrested for trespassing and destruction of property. I have a good friend who has old, beat-up four-wheel drive truck and I must tell you we have to fight the temptation to go out to the state park not far from his house and turn donuts in the big field after it rains. :p:
 
Yellowstone Snowmobiling Guidelines
Seems pretty resonable to me as long as everyone followed the rules. The only change would be the number per day from 450 to 950. Keep in mind that is for 4 different enterances, so it not like there are 950 snowmobiles all in one spot. Yellowstone is a very big place larger than Rhode Island and Delaware combined.
 
"snowmobiles can be detrimental to wildlife."
uhhhh anything CAN be detrimental to wildlife. If anything the noise the snowmobile produces helps wildlife avoid humans, and in some cases protects humans since most attacks are because of a human surprising an animal.

" And of course there are always a few idiots that cause problems by not complying to guidelines"
Key word here is few, and those few idiots will always be there no matter what the rules are.

If anything this ban is just going to hurt one of the few local business oppurtunities there.
 
Originally posted by injury

uhhhh anything CAN be detrimental to wildlife.......

If anything this ban is just going to hurt one of the few local business oppurtunities there.
Well I agree Injury, anything can be detrimental to wildlife. It just is in this case there have been some idiots chase after animals such as moose on their snowmobiles. Keep in mind, during the winter these animals have limited food supply and internal reserves to help survive the winter. When they expend unnecessary energy running from an asshole it doesn't help them any. Now I did say some idiots (most likely just a few), most snowmobilers do not behave in this fashion. So now we are governing snowmobiles when it is behavior that is the problem.

An all out ban would hurt all of the local economies of Yellowstone entry towns, most notably West Yellowstone (becasue it is the closest to Old Faithful).

BTW in my last few posts in this thread I purposefully left out an important condition of snowmobiling in Yellowstone, but nobody called me on it.
 
"It just is in this case there have been some idiots chase after animals such as moose on their snowmobiles"

Well if they were commercial guides they should have their licenses yanked, if they were taking off away from their guide maybe they should think about putting in some remote kill switches guides can use to keep people in check, and if they didn't have a guide they were operating illegally anyways...so a ban probably wouldn't stop them.

As far as what you mentioned about leaving out...I'm guessing it was about the BAT enviromental stuff? Personally outside of noise pollution I don't buy snowmobiles pollute all that much when compared to other engies (but then again bast on past readings I don't believe much anything the "green" crew spouts).
 
Judge revives Clinton-era challenge to Yellowstone snowmobile rules

CODY, Wyo. (AP) - In the latest twist over snowmobiling in Yellowstone National Park, a federal judge has agreed to revive a four-year-old suit challenging the Clinton administration ban on snowmobiles.

U.S. District Judge Clarence Brimmer is reopening the case, originally filed by snowmobile groups, but has not set a schedule for proceedings.

Attorneys on both sides of the snowmobile fight were notified this week of the decision, which could result in the dispute over snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks being debated in two federal courts.

Last month, U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan in Washington, D.C., ordered the National Park Service to revive the Clinton-era ban scrapped by the Bush administration.

That decision has been appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. A ruling could be handed down sometime next week.

The state of Wyoming, meanwhile, asked Brimmer to revive the federal case filed in Wyoming. That suit, a response to the snowmobile ban issued in 2000, led to a settlement in 2001 that eventually produced the Bush administration's latest proposal.

Officials at the attorney general's office, which asked Brimmer to reopen the case, have not commented yet.

But Michael O' Donnell, chief deputy attorney general, said late last month that the state wanted to challenge how the 2001 settlement was carried out.

He said the state and others are hoping Brimmer will allow this winter season to proceed as planned under the Bush administration plan while the rest of the legal issues are examined.

Doug Honnold, an attorney with Earthjustice, which has handled the snowmobile cases on behalf of several environmental groups, called it strange that Wyoming is challenging the snowmobile ruling in two courts.

link


Looks like this one will be in the courts for awhile more.
 
Typical liberal legislating from the bench.

People or wildlife have almost nothing to gain by banning snowmobiles in the park. Pollution? More polluting vehicles drive through the park in one day in the summer than the amount of snowmobiles that go through all winter. Disturbing the wildlife? As anyone who has been there knows Yellowstone is about the least wild place in the country next to your local zoo. Most of the animals are plenty used to humans plus snowmobiles are restricted to about 10% of the park on trails only.

Up here in MN we get a radio program called Garage Logic, in which someone actually crunched a few numbers. Yellowstone allowes a maximum of roughly 600 snowmobiles. in the park per day according to their website and only a certain number through each entrance. Yellowstone park is roughly 2.2 million acres sqaure in area. thats 1 snowmobile for every 3666 acres of park area. Pretty miniscule if you ask me. Not to mention that many business owners who depend on the snowmobile recreation depend on it for their livelyhood.
 
Originally posted by Bern80
Pollution? More polluting vehicles drive through the park in one day in the summer than the amount of snowmobiles that go through all winter.
Amen to that brother. The anti-snowmobilers will show pictures during an inversion (when a layer of cold air is trapped under a layer of warm air) that makes it look like down town L.A. smog. The thing is inversion do not happen in the summer despite the fact that there are thousands more vechiles going into the park.
 
What is your point? (I assume you are being saracastic in your praise, as most people on this board seem to be.) Pollution is pollution either way isn't it? What makes the miniscule amount of pollution that is casued by snowmobiles so much more terrible then the amount that occurs in the summer?
 
I edited my last post. I'm not sure if you are getting where I am coming from Bern80. I'm not at all being sarcastic.
What I meant to say is the air quality can be made to look very bad in the winter due to certian weather conditions. But the output of emission is much less during the winter as compared to the summer. I'm all for snowmobiling in Yellowstone.
 
Ahh, sorry to jump to conclusions, being a rather sracastic person myself, (I'm told) it can be hard to tell at times.
 

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