Reason and Experience tell us that there is Evidence for a Creator

[Czernobog]

Why are you chasing me? We only chase those things we want. Do you want me?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I am happy enough for you to deny who you are through your silence.

Your happiness is not my concern. This is an open forum, and I am allowed to post whatever I like.

Sure and keep whatever secrets you want to keep too. We are only as sick as the secrets we keep.

Are you telling us that you are sick? Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Are you gay?

You are really obsessed with my sexuality. I keep trying to give you a hint. I do not find you sexually attractive. If you are looking for a gay lover, try Tinder.

 

[ding]

I am happy enough for you to deny who you are through your silence.

Your happiness is not my concern. This is an open forum, and I am allowed to post whatever I like.

Sure and keep whatever secrets you want to keep too. We are only as sick as the secrets we keep.

Are you telling us that you are sick? Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Are you gay?

You are really obsessed with my sexuality. I keep trying to give you a hint. I do not find you sexually attractive. If you are looking for a gay lover, try Tinder.

Ok, stay in the closet.

 

[Czernobog]

Your happiness is not my concern. This is an open forum, and I am allowed to post whatever I like.

Sure and keep whatever secrets you want to keep too. We are only as sick as the secrets we keep.

Are you telling us that you are sick? Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Are you gay?

You are really obsessed with my sexuality. I keep trying to give you a hint. I do not find you sexually attractive. If you are looking for a gay lover, try Tinder.

Ok, stay in the closet.

So...a stalker, and presumptuous. You really should get help.

 

[ding]

Sure and keep whatever secrets you want to keep too. We are only as sick as the secrets we keep.

Are you telling us that you are sick? Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Are you gay?

You are really obsessed with my sexuality. I keep trying to give you a hint. I do not find you sexually attractive. If you are looking for a gay lover, try Tinder.

Ok, stay in the closet.

So...a stalker, and presumptuous. You really should get help.

In my defense I was only presumptuous because you won't come right out and say one way or another. I believe that you don't want to deny what you are and you also don't want to acknowledge the basis for your hatred of Christians. It's a losing hand either way, so it makes perfect sense that you will sit this one out by trying to be coy. The reality is that that in and of itself is still a denial of who you are. Like I said before, its a losing hand either way. Being coy about it doesn't change the outcome.

 

[Czernobog]

Are you telling us that you are sick? Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Are you gay?

You are really obsessed with my sexuality. I keep trying to give you a hint. I do not find you sexually attractive. If you are looking for a gay lover, try Tinder.

Ok, stay in the closet.

So...a stalker, and presumptuous. You really should get help.

In my defense I was only presumptuous because you won't come right out and say one way or another. I believe that you don't want to deny what you are and you also don't want to acknowledge the basis for your hatred of Christians. It's a losing hand either way, so it makes perfect sense that you will sit this one out by trying to be coy. The reality is that that in and of itself is still a denial of who you are. Like I said before, its a losing hand either way. Being coy about it doesn't change the outcome.

What you believe is of little consequence. There is no benefit to answering your question. You clearly have already decided that I am gay, so even were I to tell you that I am not, you would just accuse me of not being honest. You can therefore presume whatever you would like, as you have already made your belief clear, regardless of your lack of foundation. It is what the religious do. They form their beliefs, and then use whatever means are necessary to force everything they encounter to fit their preconceived notions independent of reality.

 

[ding]

Are you gay?

You are really obsessed with my sexuality. I keep trying to give you a hint. I do not find you sexually attractive. If you are looking for a gay lover, try Tinder.

Ok, stay in the closet.

So...a stalker, and presumptuous. You really should get help.

In my defense I was only presumptuous because you won't come right out and say one way or another. I believe that you don't want to deny what you are and you also don't want to acknowledge the basis for your hatred of Christians. It's a losing hand either way, so it makes perfect sense that you will sit this one out by trying to be coy. The reality is that that in and of itself is still a denial of who you are. Like I said before, its a losing hand either way. Being coy about it doesn't change the outcome.

What you believe is of little consequence. There is no benefit to answering your question. You clearly have already decided that I am gay, so even were I to tell you that I am not, you would just accuse me of not being honest. You can therefore presume whatever you would like, as you have already made your belief clear, regardless of your lack of foundation. It is what the religious do. They form their beliefs, and then use whatever means are necessary to force everything they encounter to fit their preconceived notions independent of reality.

I will absolutely believe you if you say you are not gay. Try me.

 

[Czernobog]

You are really obsessed with my sexuality. I keep trying to give you a hint. I do not find you sexually attractive. If you are looking for a gay lover, try Tinder.

Ok, stay in the closet.

So...a stalker, and presumptuous. You really should get help.

In my defense I was only presumptuous because you won't come right out and say one way or another. I believe that you don't want to deny what you are and you also don't want to acknowledge the basis for your hatred of Christians. It's a losing hand either way, so it makes perfect sense that you will sit this one out by trying to be coy. The reality is that that in and of itself is still a denial of who you are. Like I said before, its a losing hand either way. Being coy about it doesn't change the outcome.

What you believe is of little consequence. There is no benefit to answering your question. You clearly have already decided that I am gay, so even were I to tell you that I am not, you would just accuse me of not being honest. You can therefore presume whatever you would like, as you have already made your belief clear, regardless of your lack of foundation. It is what the religious do. They form their beliefs, and then use whatever means are necessary to force everything they encounter to fit their preconceived notions independent of reality.

I will absolutely believe you if you say you are not gay. Try me.

*sigh*. No, Ding, I'm not gay. Are you?

 

[ding]

Ok, stay in the closet.

So...a stalker, and presumptuous. You really should get help.

In my defense I was only presumptuous because you won't come right out and say one way or another. I believe that you don't want to deny what you are and you also don't want to acknowledge the basis for your hatred of Christians. It's a losing hand either way, so it makes perfect sense that you will sit this one out by trying to be coy. The reality is that that in and of itself is still a denial of who you are. Like I said before, its a losing hand either way. Being coy about it doesn't change the outcome.

What you believe is of little consequence. There is no benefit to answering your question. You clearly have already decided that I am gay, so even were I to tell you that I am not, you would just accuse me of not being honest. You can therefore presume whatever you would like, as you have already made your belief clear, regardless of your lack of foundation. It is what the religious do. They form their beliefs, and then use whatever means are necessary to force everything they encounter to fit their preconceived notions independent of reality.

I will absolutely believe you if you say you are not gay. Try me.

*sigh*. No, Ding, I'm not gay. Are you?

I'm glad we finally settled that. No. I'm not gay either. So why do you condemn respect for people who believe in God?

 

[Czernobog]

So...a stalker, and presumptuous. You really should get help.

In my defense I was only presumptuous because you won't come right out and say one way or another. I believe that you don't want to deny what you are and you also don't want to acknowledge the basis for your hatred of Christians. It's a losing hand either way, so it makes perfect sense that you will sit this one out by trying to be coy. The reality is that that in and of itself is still a denial of who you are. Like I said before, its a losing hand either way. Being coy about it doesn't change the outcome.

What you believe is of little consequence. There is no benefit to answering your question. You clearly have already decided that I am gay, so even were I to tell you that I am not, you would just accuse me of not being honest. You can therefore presume whatever you would like, as you have already made your belief clear, regardless of your lack of foundation. It is what the religious do. They form their beliefs, and then use whatever means are necessary to force everything they encounter to fit their preconceived notions independent of reality.

I will absolutely believe you if you say you are not gay. Try me.

*sigh*. No, Ding, I'm not gay. Are you?

I'm glad we finally settled that. No. I'm not gay either. So why do you condemn respect for people who believe in God?

I condemn respect for any behaviour that replaces reason, exploration, and pursuit of fact with acceptance of fairy tale, superstition, and release of moral responsibility. You Christians always speak of "free will", yet whenever you do something that you believe is immoral, or unethical, it is never "I did this, "; it is, "Satan led me astray,", or "Satan tested me, and I failed," Never just, "I made a choice". On the other hand, nothing good that ever happens is ever just something good; it's alwayus "God blessed me with ___" (fill in the blank). Ironically whenever something bad happens, it's either "Satan is attacking me," or "God is testing me,"

The latter is what I find both amusing, and infuriating. Christians are incapable of postulating that their God could ever do something cruel, or unkind. So, they have to convince themselves that God was, somehow, justified when he allows horrible things happen to them. You presume that my understanding of Christianity comes from "an outsiders" perspective, but it doesn't. It comes from 18 years as a Christian, and 3 years of in-depth study of the Bible at seminary. That's right. I was going to be an evangelist. Unfortunately, the deeper I dug into the Bible - particularly in its original, uninterpreted, language - the more I came to understand that Christians are largely ignorant of what the Bible actually says, and means; mostly because Christians are not taught to think for themselves. They are not encouraged to take the Bible apart, study it, and learn what it actually says. They are encouraged to listen to their pastors, and to let their church leaders tell them what the Bible says, and means.

And, lest you try to infer something in my words that was not there, no, I did not have a favourite puppy die. I didn't have some wish that God said "No" to. I didn't suffer some tragedy that made me "hate God". I just learned. And I read. And I understood.

 

[ding]

In my defense I was only presumptuous because you won't come right out and say one way or another. I believe that you don't want to deny what you are and you also don't want to acknowledge the basis for your hatred of Christians. It's a losing hand either way, so it makes perfect sense that you will sit this one out by trying to be coy. The reality is that that in and of itself is still a denial of who you are. Like I said before, its a losing hand either way. Being coy about it doesn't change the outcome.

What you believe is of little consequence. There is no benefit to answering your question. You clearly have already decided that I am gay, so even were I to tell you that I am not, you would just accuse me of not being honest. You can therefore presume whatever you would like, as you have already made your belief clear, regardless of your lack of foundation. It is what the religious do. They form their beliefs, and then use whatever means are necessary to force everything they encounter to fit their preconceived notions independent of reality.

I will absolutely believe you if you say you are not gay. Try me.

*sigh*. No, Ding, I'm not gay. Are you?

I'm glad we finally settled that. No. I'm not gay either. So why do you condemn respect for people who believe in God?

I condemn respect for any behaviour that replaces reason, exploration, and pursuit of fact with acceptance of fairy tale, superstition, and release of moral responsibility. You Christians always speak of "free will", yet whenever you do something that you believe is immoral, or unethical, it is never "I did this, "; it is, "Satan led me astray,", or "Satan tested me, and I failed," Never just, "I made a choice". On the other hand, nothing good that ever happens is ever just something good; it's alwayus "God blessed me with ___" (fill in the blank). Ironically whenever something bad happens, it's either "Satan is attacking me," or "God is testing me,"

The latter is what I find both amusing, and infuriating. Christians are incapable of postulating that their God could ever do something cruel, or unkind. So, they have to convince themselves that God was, somehow, justified when he allows horrible things happen to them. You presume that my understanding of Christianity comes from "an outsiders" perspective, but it doesn't. It comes from 18 years as a Christian, and 3 years of in-depth study of the Bible at seminary. That's right. I was going to be an evangelist. Unfortunately, the deeper I dug into the Bible - particularly in its original, uninterpreted, language - the more I came to understand that Christians are largely ignorant of what the Bible actually says, and means; mostly because Christians are not taught to think for themselves. They are not encouraged to take the Bible apart, study it, and learn what it actually says. They are encouraged to listen to their pastors, and to let their church leaders tell them what the Bible says, and means.

And, lest you try to infer something in my words that was not there, no, I did not have a favourite puppy die. I didn't have some wish that God said "No" to. I didn't suffer some tragedy that made me "hate God". I just learned. And I read. And I understood.

No. You condemn respect for people. What is it that you have done that makes you believe you are better than others?

 

[BULLDOG]

So, let me make sure that I have this correct, according to your own words. If I do not respond to you, I am, as you called me in post #21, a "*****", but if I respond to you, I am, as you say in post #178 (and others) chasing you. Lovely no-win scenario you have set up for yourself there, allowing you to insult me no matter how I respond.

That's only because YOU are playing a no win hand. That's not my fault. But since you blame me for YOU playing a losing hand, YOU have transferred your control to an external source which would be me.

a no win hand that you devised, as evidenced by your own words.

Again you have demonstrated that you have transferred your control to me. Someone you love is going to take a beating tonight.

This silliness has already gone on for too long, but just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be evidence of a creator? I mean something other than a gut feeling.

I agree.

That's a fair question and you seem like you are being genuinely curious about why I believe what I do. The order of the universe. It is incredibly ordered and it does so despite chaos. The evolution of matter to consciousness and how each phase was so similar in its process and how we can see that throughout nature here on earth. The similarity of the cycles in nature and how the saeculm cycle mirrors that. The fact that we prefer good over evil. The fact that virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind. The law of compensation that seems to be at work which acts to prune us whether we believe in Him or not. That we are given feedback to know the difference between doing right and doing wrong but rationalizing that we are doing right. The fact that all of the teachings on forgiveness, thankfulness, forgiveness and humility have practical applications that naturally lead to successful outcomes. The fact that dying to self leads one to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to self and leads to seeing objective reality. These are incredibly powerful behaviors which naturally lead to success in all endeavors, especially relationships. Did you know that it is happiness which leads to success and not the other way around? Happiness turns on all of the learning centers of the brain. But most importantly, I have seen the miracles in my life and those around me when I chose to make this journey. I have come to realize that everything that happened to me that I thought was bad was really good. I can see and feel God's hand guiding me. So whether people believe in Him or not, He does believe in us and He is pruning us all for our own betterment here in this world. The only question is will we recognize it and learn or will we keep playing our self centric movie over and over again in our head. The ball is in your court, brother. You can choose to mock me or accept me as I am. Your call.

I was genuinely curious until I read some of your further posts. It's obvious that your stated beliefs on the efficacy of good and evil, and the concept of selflessness are flowery sounding, but you aren't quite capable of following them yourself. Just like most who claim Christianity, you are lacking the understanding or self control required to apply what you arrogantly demand from others.

 

[ding]

That's only because YOU are playing a no win hand. That's not my fault. But since you blame me for YOU playing a losing hand, YOU have transferred your control to an external source which would be me.

a no win hand that you devised, as evidenced by your own words.

Again you have demonstrated that you have transferred your control to me. Someone you love is going to take a beating tonight.

This silliness has already gone on for too long, but just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be evidence of a creator? I mean something other than a gut feeling.

I agree.

That's a fair question and you seem like you are being genuinely curious about why I believe what I do. The order of the universe. It is incredibly ordered and it does so despite chaos. The evolution of matter to consciousness and how each phase was so similar in its process and how we can see that throughout nature here on earth. The similarity of the cycles in nature and how the saeculm cycle mirrors that. The fact that we prefer good over evil. The fact that virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind. The law of compensation that seems to be at work which acts to prune us whether we believe in Him or not. That we are given feedback to know the difference between doing right and doing wrong but rationalizing that we are doing right. The fact that all of the teachings on forgiveness, thankfulness, forgiveness and humility have practical applications that naturally lead to successful outcomes. The fact that dying to self leads one to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to self and leads to seeing objective reality. These are incredibly powerful behaviors which naturally lead to success in all endeavors, especially relationships. Did you know that it is happiness which leads to success and not the other way around? Happiness turns on all of the learning centers of the brain. But most importantly, I have seen the miracles in my life and those around me when I chose to make this journey. I have come to realize that everything that happened to me that I thought was bad was really good. I can see and feel God's hand guiding me. So whether people believe in Him or not, He does believe in us and He is pruning us all for our own betterment here in this world. The only question is will we recognize it and learn or will we keep playing our self centric movie over and over again in our head. The ball is in your court, brother. You can choose to mock me or accept me as I am. Your call.

I was genuinely curious until I read some of your further posts. It's obvious that your stated beliefs on the efficacy of good and evil, and the concept of selflessness are flowery sounding, but you aren't quite capable of following them yourself. Just like most who claim Christianity, you are lacking the understanding or self control required to apply what you arrogantly demand from others.

I'm not surprised. You only saw my responses in a vacuum because that was what you wanted to see. I guess those other guys were saints, right? I never said I was a saint. We always judge ourselves differently than we judge others, especially others who are not of our tribe. I have no idea where you got the idea that I demanded anything from others.

Now I am curious, which posts did you believe were over the line and why?

 

[BULLDOG]

a no win hand that you devised, as evidenced by your own words.

Again you have demonstrated that you have transferred your control to me. Someone you love is going to take a beating tonight.

This silliness has already gone on for too long, but just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be evidence of a creator? I mean something other than a gut feeling.

I agree.

That's a fair question and you seem like you are being genuinely curious about why I believe what I do. The order of the universe. It is incredibly ordered and it does so despite chaos. The evolution of matter to consciousness and how each phase was so similar in its process and how we can see that throughout nature here on earth. The similarity of the cycles in nature and how the saeculm cycle mirrors that. The fact that we prefer good over evil. The fact that virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind. The law of compensation that seems to be at work which acts to prune us whether we believe in Him or not. That we are given feedback to know the difference between doing right and doing wrong but rationalizing that we are doing right. The fact that all of the teachings on forgiveness, thankfulness, forgiveness and humility have practical applications that naturally lead to successful outcomes. The fact that dying to self leads one to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to self and leads to seeing objective reality. These are incredibly powerful behaviors which naturally lead to success in all endeavors, especially relationships. Did you know that it is happiness which leads to success and not the other way around? Happiness turns on all of the learning centers of the brain. But most importantly, I have seen the miracles in my life and those around me when I chose to make this journey. I have come to realize that everything that happened to me that I thought was bad was really good. I can see and feel God's hand guiding me. So whether people believe in Him or not, He does believe in us and He is pruning us all for our own betterment here in this world. The only question is will we recognize it and learn or will we keep playing our self centric movie over and over again in our head. The ball is in your court, brother. You can choose to mock me or accept me as I am. Your call.

I was genuinely curious until I read some of your further posts. It's obvious that your stated beliefs on the efficacy of good and evil, and the concept of selflessness are flowery sounding, but you aren't quite capable of following them yourself. Just like most who claim Christianity, you are lacking the understanding or self control required to apply what you arrogantly demand from others.

I'm not surprised. You only saw my responses in a vacuum because that was what you wanted to see. I guess those other guys were saints, right? I never said I was a saint. We always judge ourselves differently than we judge others, especially others who are not of our tribe. I have no idea where you got the idea that I demanded anything from others.

Now I am curious, which posts did you believe were over the line and why?

You presented yourself as someone who could prove credible evidence of the existence of a creator, and later implied that the things commonly accepted as moral behavior were a directly from that creator. Here is a hint. Next time you want to be a fountain of religious information and the value of morality, don't childishly accuse someone of being gay in the middle of your homily.

 

[Czernobog]

Again you have demonstrated that you have transferred your control to me. Someone you love is going to take a beating tonight.

This silliness has already gone on for too long, but just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be evidence of a creator? I mean something other than a gut feeling.

I agree.

That's a fair question and you seem like you are being genuinely curious about why I believe what I do. The order of the universe. It is incredibly ordered and it does so despite chaos. The evolution of matter to consciousness and how each phase was so similar in its process and how we can see that throughout nature here on earth. The similarity of the cycles in nature and how the saeculm cycle mirrors that. The fact that we prefer good over evil. The fact that virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind. The law of compensation that seems to be at work which acts to prune us whether we believe in Him or not. That we are given feedback to know the difference between doing right and doing wrong but rationalizing that we are doing right. The fact that all of the teachings on forgiveness, thankfulness, forgiveness and humility have practical applications that naturally lead to successful outcomes. The fact that dying to self leads one to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to self and leads to seeing objective reality. These are incredibly powerful behaviors which naturally lead to success in all endeavors, especially relationships. Did you know that it is happiness which leads to success and not the other way around? Happiness turns on all of the learning centers of the brain. But most importantly, I have seen the miracles in my life and those around me when I chose to make this journey. I have come to realize that everything that happened to me that I thought was bad was really good. I can see and feel God's hand guiding me. So whether people believe in Him or not, He does believe in us and He is pruning us all for our own betterment here in this world. The only question is will we recognize it and learn or will we keep playing our self centric movie over and over again in our head. The ball is in your court, brother. You can choose to mock me or accept me as I am. Your call.

I was genuinely curious until I read some of your further posts. It's obvious that your stated beliefs on the efficacy of good and evil, and the concept of selflessness are flowery sounding, but you aren't quite capable of following them yourself. Just like most who claim Christianity, you are lacking the understanding or self control required to apply what you arrogantly demand from others.

I'm not surprised. You only saw my responses in a vacuum because that was what you wanted to see. I guess those other guys were saints, right? I never said I was a saint. We always judge ourselves differently than we judge others, especially others who are not of our tribe. I have no idea where you got the idea that I demanded anything from others.

Now I am curious, which posts did you believe were over the line and why?

You presented yourself as someone who could prove credible evidence of the existence of a creator, and later implied that the things commonly accepted as moral behavior were a directly from that creator. Here is a hint. Next time you want to be a fountain of religious information and the value of morality, don't childishly accuse someone of being gay in the middle of your homily.

Oh! but, he didn't accuse me of being gay! He just "asked the question". Wait for it...

Oh, and don't forget about calling me a *****, and a stalker, and setting up this adorable little no-win scenario so that, no matter how I reacted, he got to gloat about his moral superiority.

 

[BULLDOG]

This silliness has already gone on for too long, but just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be evidence of a creator? I mean something other than a gut feeling.

I agree.

That's a fair question and you seem like you are being genuinely curious about why I believe what I do. The order of the universe. It is incredibly ordered and it does so despite chaos. The evolution of matter to consciousness and how each phase was so similar in its process and how we can see that throughout nature here on earth. The similarity of the cycles in nature and how the saeculm cycle mirrors that. The fact that we prefer good over evil. The fact that virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind. The law of compensation that seems to be at work which acts to prune us whether we believe in Him or not. That we are given feedback to know the difference between doing right and doing wrong but rationalizing that we are doing right. The fact that all of the teachings on forgiveness, thankfulness, forgiveness and humility have practical applications that naturally lead to successful outcomes. The fact that dying to self leads one to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to self and leads to seeing objective reality. These are incredibly powerful behaviors which naturally lead to success in all endeavors, especially relationships. Did you know that it is happiness which leads to success and not the other way around? Happiness turns on all of the learning centers of the brain. But most importantly, I have seen the miracles in my life and those around me when I chose to make this journey. I have come to realize that everything that happened to me that I thought was bad was really good. I can see and feel God's hand guiding me. So whether people believe in Him or not, He does believe in us and He is pruning us all for our own betterment here in this world. The only question is will we recognize it and learn or will we keep playing our self centric movie over and over again in our head. The ball is in your court, brother. You can choose to mock me or accept me as I am. Your call.

I was genuinely curious until I read some of your further posts. It's obvious that your stated beliefs on the efficacy of good and evil, and the concept of selflessness are flowery sounding, but you aren't quite capable of following them yourself. Just like most who claim Christianity, you are lacking the understanding or self control required to apply what you arrogantly demand from others.

I'm not surprised. You only saw my responses in a vacuum because that was what you wanted to see. I guess those other guys were saints, right? I never said I was a saint. We always judge ourselves differently than we judge others, especially others who are not of our tribe. I have no idea where you got the idea that I demanded anything from others.

Now I am curious, which posts did you believe were over the line and why?

You presented yourself as someone who could prove credible evidence of the existence of a creator, and later implied that the things commonly accepted as moral behavior were a directly from that creator. Here is a hint. Next time you want to be a fountain of religious information and the value of morality, don't childishly accuse someone of being gay in the middle of your homily.

Oh! but, he didn't accuse me of being gay! He just "asked the question". Wait for it...

Oh, and don't forget about calling me a *****, and a stalker, and setting up this adorable little no-win scenario so that, no matter how I reacted, he got to gloat about his moral superiority.

Those things aren't too easy to forget. It's what most bible thumpers do when they realize that they can't justify their claims.

 

[ding]

I didn't expect anything different from you guys. You are hammers looking for a nail.

 

[PK1]

Can I use something you have created as evidence?

Boy, is that line getting old!
LOL

Only because it challenges your beliefs. Truth usually hurts before it helps.

What truth are you referring to?

 

[PK1]

So, let me make sure that I have this correct, according to your own words. If I do not respond to you, I am, as you called me in post #21, a "*****", but if I respond to you, I am, as you say in post #178 (and others) chasing you. Lovely no-win scenario you have set up for yourself there, allowing you to insult me no matter how I respond.

That's only because YOU are playing a no win hand. That's not my fault. But since you blame me for YOU playing a losing hand, YOU have transferred your control to an external source which would be me.

a no win hand that you devised, as evidenced by your own words.

Again you have demonstrated that you have transferred your control to me. Someone you love is going to take a beating tonight.

This silliness has already gone on for too long, but just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be evidence of a creator? I mean something other than a gut feeling.

I agree.

That's a fair question and you seem like you are being genuinely curious about why I believe what I do. The order of the universe. It is incredibly ordered and it does so despite chaos. The evolution of matter to consciousness and how each phase was so similar in its process and how we can see that throughout nature here on earth. The similarity of the cycles in nature and how the saeculm cycle mirrors that. The fact that we prefer good over evil. The fact that virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind. The law of compensation that seems to be at work which acts to prune us whether we believe in Him or not. That we are given feedback to know the difference between doing right and doing wrong but rationalizing that we are doing right. The fact that all of the teachings on forgiveness, thankfulness, forgiveness and humility have practical applications that naturally lead to successful outcomes. The fact that dying to self leads one to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to self and leads to seeing objective reality. These are incredibly powerful behaviors which naturally lead to success in all endeavors, especially relationships. Did you know that it is happiness which leads to success and not the other way around? Happiness turns on all of the learning centers of the brain. But most importantly, I have seen the miracles in my life and those around me when I chose to make this journey. I have come to realize that everything that happened to me that I thought was bad was really good. I can see and feel God's hand guiding me. So whether people believe in Him or not, He does believe in us and He is pruning us all for our own betterment here in this world. The only question is will we recognize it and learn or will we keep playing our self centric movie over and over again in our head. The ball is in your court, brother. You can choose to mock me or accept me as I am. Your call.

Patterns can be perceived in different ways, like a Rorschach image.
Everything you mentioned has natural explanations too.

 

[ding]

Can I use something you have created as evidence?

Boy, is that line getting old!
LOL

Only because it challenges your beliefs. Truth usually hurts before it helps.

What truth are you referring to?

The kind none of your kind wants to hear.

 

[ding]

Again you have demonstrated that you have transferred your control to me. Someone you love is going to take a beating tonight.

This silliness has already gone on for too long, but just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be evidence of a creator? I mean something other than a gut feeling.

I agree.

That's a fair question and you seem like you are being genuinely curious about why I believe what I do. The order of the universe. It is incredibly ordered and it does so despite chaos. The evolution of matter to consciousness and how each phase was so similar in its process and how we can see that throughout nature here on earth. The similarity of the cycles in nature and how the saeculm cycle mirrors that. The fact that we prefer good over evil. The fact that virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind. The law of compensation that seems to be at work which acts to prune us whether we believe in Him or not. That we are given feedback to know the difference between doing right and doing wrong but rationalizing that we are doing right. The fact that all of the teachings on forgiveness, thankfulness, forgiveness and humility have practical applications that naturally lead to successful outcomes. The fact that dying to self leads one to not have a preference for an outcome or consequence to self and leads to seeing objective reality. These are incredibly powerful behaviors which naturally lead to success in all endeavors, especially relationships. Did you know that it is happiness which leads to success and not the other way around? Happiness turns on all of the learning centers of the brain. But most importantly, I have seen the miracles in my life and those around me when I chose to make this journey. I have come to realize that everything that happened to me that I thought was bad was really good. I can see and feel God's hand guiding me. So whether people believe in Him or not, He does believe in us and He is pruning us all for our own betterment here in this world. The only question is will we recognize it and learn or will we keep playing our self centric movie over and over again in our head. The ball is in your court, brother. You can choose to mock me or accept me as I am. Your call.

I was genuinely curious until I read some of your further posts. It's obvious that your stated beliefs on the efficacy of good and evil, and the concept of selflessness are flowery sounding, but you aren't quite capable of following them yourself. Just like most who claim Christianity, you are lacking the understanding or self control required to apply what you arrogantly demand from others.

I'm not surprised. You only saw my responses in a vacuum because that was what you wanted to see. I guess those other guys were saints, right? I never said I was a saint. We always judge ourselves differently than we judge others, especially others who are not of our tribe. I have no idea where you got the idea that I demanded anything from others.

Now I am curious, which posts did you believe were over the line and why?

You presented yourself as someone who could prove credible evidence of the existence of a creator, and later implied that the things commonly accepted as moral behavior were a directly from that creator. Here is a hint. Next time you want to be a fountain of religious information and the value of morality, don't childishly accuse someone of being gay in the middle of your homily.

I see. So it's not because you never had the intention of being open minded, it is because it is my fault in how I responded to others. As near as I can tell, an external locus of control is a requirement of being a militant atheist.