Raise Taxes or Cut Waste?

[PaintMyHouse]

Raise Taxes or Cut Waste?

Both, and grow the economy.

Lets "cut" first and then see where we are. Yes, we do need to grow the economy, but providing self-supporting opportunities that cover all education and skill levels will take care of that.

Sure, list your cuts and how much? Start with the DOD, tons of fat in that. Don't start with Welfare since that isn't money.

WASTE: The care and support of illegal immigrants, foreign aid, projects such as the fence along our southern border, senseless deadly costly wars, supplying weapons to drug lords and terrorists, building mosques on foreign soil, subsidies to Brazilian corn crops, no-bid government contracts, excessive military and defense spending, Medicare and Medicaid fraud, subsidies to rich farmers and big oil, exploring the far reaches of the universe, looking for water on the surface of Mars, bribes paid to North Korea and Iran, excessive government travel, lavish White House parties, lavish vacations for the president and his wife, pork spending, ridiculous perks and benefits given to members of Congress, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Do the math, not the ideology.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Raise Taxes or Cut Waste?

Both, and grow the economy.

Lets "cut" first and then see where we are. Yes, we do need to grow the economy, but providing self-supporting opportunities that cover all education and skill levels will take care of that.

Sure, list your cuts and how much? Start with the DOD, tons of fat in that. Don't start with Welfare since that isn't money.

Hmmmm...welfare isn't money.....how so?

Do the math this time. You have 4,000 billions to play with. Try and find the real money first.

It's money, but it's all debt.

 

[2aguy]

Raise Taxes or Cut Waste?

Both, and grow the economy.

Lets "cut" first and then see where we are. Yes, we do need to grow the economy, but providing self-supporting opportunities that cover all education and skill levels will take care of that.

Sure, list your cuts and how much? Start with the DOD, tons of fat in that. Don't start with Welfare since that isn't money.

Hmmmm...welfare isn't money.....how so?

Do the math this time. You have 4,000 billions to play with. Try and find the real money first.

Give me a list and I'll bring the scissors......

 

[2aguy]

We should not be funding wasteful unnecessary wars like that ass wipe Bush got us into ...what a waste of trillions eh conservatives ....way to go ....

Uhm, you do realize that it was actually the Democrats that voted like twice to go to war?

In fact.....they insisted that he let them vote on it.....

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Raise Taxes or Cut Waste?

Both, and grow the economy.

Lets "cut" first and then see where we are. Yes, we do need to grow the economy, but providing self-supporting opportunities that cover all education and skill levels will take care of that.

Sure, list your cuts and how much? Start with the DOD, tons of fat in that. Don't start with Welfare since that isn't money.

Hmmmm...welfare isn't money.....how so?

Do the math this time. You have 4,000 billions to play with. Try and find the real money first.

Give me a list and I'll bring the scissors......

Do that yourself, and then show us the numbers. If you've never read the Federal Budget, now would be a good time. Start with Google: US Federal Budget items...

 

[Sonny Clark]

Raise Taxes or Cut Waste?

Both, and grow the economy.

Lets "cut" first and then see where we are. Yes, we do need to grow the economy, but providing self-supporting opportunities that cover all education and skill levels will take care of that.

Sure, list your cuts and how much? Start with the DOD, tons of fat in that. Don't start with Welfare since that isn't money.

WASTE: The care and support of illegal immigrants, foreign aid, projects such as the fence along our southern border, senseless deadly costly wars, supplying weapons to drug lords and terrorists, building mosques on foreign soil, subsidies to Brazilian corn crops, no-bid government contracts, excessive military and defense spending, Medicare and Medicaid fraud, subsidies to rich farmers and big oil, exploring the far reaches of the universe, looking for water on the surface of Mars, bribes paid to North Korea and Iran, excessive government travel, lavish White House parties, lavish vacations for the president and his wife, pork spending, ridiculous perks and benefits given to members of Congress, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Do the math, not the ideology.

The math would take a very long time, a lot of research, and would still show untold multi-$Billions in waste. Maybe even $Trillions. Just what we spend on the care and support of illegal immigrants is in the $Billions. It doesn't take an MIT graduate, nor a Philadelphia lawyer to see the enormous astronomical waste.

 

[hadit]

First, total transparency. Only when the taxpayers can get an accurate and clear picture of exactly where the money is going and who is routing it to their own pockets will we be able to agree on what is waste and what is not.
No more omnibus spending bills larded up with hidden riders and special interest spending that doesn't relate to the bill. Each federal department should have its own spending bill with items relating only to it. We pay a lot to keep Washington in session, let them earn it by understanding and hashing out where the money is to actually go. No more obamadon'tcare carp rammed through at the last minute. No more stool sample "we have to pass it to see what's in it" garbage.

Next, all spending bills must be posted openly online at least a week before they are voted on. Give the citizens a chance to educate themselves if they wish and make their voices heard.

Next, every spending bill must cite the Constitutional language permitting Congress to spend the money.

These steps by themselves wouldn't cut spending OR raise taxes. What they WOULD do is let the citizens see what's going on and would ultimately bring pressure to bring the budget in line. Let people see how much money is spent on a "bridge to nowhere", or outhouses on Skyline Drive, or massaging rabbits, etc.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Lets "cut" first and then see where we are. Yes, we do need to grow the economy, but providing self-supporting opportunities that cover all education and skill levels will take care of that.

Sure, list your cuts and how much? Start with the DOD, tons of fat in that. Don't start with Welfare since that isn't money.

Hmmmm...welfare isn't money.....how so?

Do the math this time. You have 4,000 billions to play with. Try and find the real money first.

Give me a list and I'll bring the scissors......

Do that yourself, and then show us the numbers. If you've never read the Federal Budget, now would be a good time. Start with Google: US Federal Budget items...

Everything spent is NOT in the budget. Part of defense spending is always classified and never revealed.

 

[PratchettFan]

I think we can raise taxes while lowering them across the board just by removing all loopholes and deductions. It could be a flat tax or based upon income as we have today. Of course, that would mean a tax system which was simple and you immediately have both the lawyers and the accountants in opposition, not to mention large corporations who would actually have to start paying tax.

The problem with waste is that it really doesn't have much of an impact. People will get up in arms because of a miniscule grant to study squid but will defend monstrous waste in other areas. More than $8 billion in cash just disappeared in Iraq, and I don't mean misspent - I mean disappeared, and no one was held accountable, no congressional committee was formed to investigate, no uproar in the press. Major contractors will underbid projects with the feds and then pump of the cost through cost over runs and no one bats an eye.

Yes, I remember reading about all the money that went missing in Iraq. Yes, defense spending is favoritism, kick-backs, and wasteful beyond words. But, we have many other areas of obvious waste and abuse of tax dollars also. We could save untold multi-$Billions by cutting just the obvious waste.

What waste?

Building mosques on foreign soil, building the fence along our southern border, supplying weapons to drug lords and terrorists, foreign aid, luxury prisons, the care and support of illegal immigrants, subsidies, excessive government travel, senseless deadly costly wars, no-bid government contracts, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Interesting. You want to open up our borders but you don't want to have care and support for illegal immigrants. Do you see a contradiction there? Social security is a subsidy, as is money paid to states for education. Government travel is so small as to be inconsequential. I agree with you on wars, but where is the line? Foreign aid is a real benefit to us, especially if you don't want to get involved in costly wars. Luxury prisons? I'm not sure I follow that.

I think the point really is that there is little which someone is not going to see as essential.

I have never ever said, nor implied, that I want to open our borders, never. I have said many times that we should uphold our immigration laws to the letter. I have also said many times, that we should place everyone that hires, or gives any kind of help or assistance to illegal immigrants, in prison for life without the possibility of parole. Social Security is NOT a subsidy, by any stretch of the imagination. Social Security is money paid in by payroll deductions and employers. Money for education comes from property taxes and other taxes. We pay for education out f our pockets. I pay a school tax every single year through my property taxes. Government travel is included in the waste regardless of how small it is. The line on wars is to fight war as war, get it over and done with in a matter of days, and then come home. Foreign aid is "give-aways" to foreign governments. Very little of the foreign aid actually goes for the purposes and causes for which it is given. Africa I a great example of that. Prisons have gyms, computers, libraries, big screen TV's, basket ball courts, etc. etc. etc. Prison are confinement resorts.

You want the borders closed but you don't want a fence. Thus we have the real problem. What you would call waste I might call essential. What we both my call essential, someone else would call waste. For example, my problem with foreign aid is that we don't do enough of it. The problem with prisons is that there are not enough luxuries. The so called war on drugs is a complete waste of money, but others would say it needs to be ramped up. Everyone has a different view and this is a representative democracy.

 

[deltex1]

We could certainly reduce the cost of war. A couple of old nukes would replace feeding and supplying 100000 soldiers for 5 years.

True. Just as putting a bullet in your head will drastically reduce your food budget. But the solution is a tad counter productive.

We would be nuking them, not us.

 

[PratchettFan]

We could certainly reduce the cost of war. A couple of old nukes would replace feeding and supplying 100000 soldiers for 5 years.

True. Just as putting a bullet in your head will drastically reduce your food budget. But the solution is a tad counter productive.

We would be nuking them, not us.

If you actually think that, it is a good thing you don't have access to them.

 

[Roadrunner]

Raise taxes on the rich, tax college savings, raise gasoline taxes, and cut social programs? Or, cut the enormous waste that we all know should be cut? Or, should we do a combination of both? If your answer is to cut waste, what are the most obvious areas of waste that you would cut? If your answer is to raise taxes, what taxes would you increase? Or, what new taxes would you add? If your answer is to raise taxes, where would you use the new revenue? If your answer is to cut waste, where would you use the savings?

We need to reduce waste, that is a given, but, we also need to put the lower middle class back on the tax rosters.

We need a debt reduction surcharge too.

If people were actually feeling the debt, they might pay attention to who they elect and how their reps vote.

The debt proves that as a society, we are grossly undertaxed.

Far too many have no skin in the game.

Everyone pays taxes. Everyone pays when they make a purchase. And, don't forget, car tags, property taxes, taxes added to phone bills and cable bills, etc. We all pay taxes. Not everyone pays payroll taxes because not everyone is employed.

If your net taxes paid do not exceed unearned benefits received, for all practical purposes, you are not a taxpayer.

That is more than half the country.

 

[CowboyTed]

Lower taxes on everyone, especially thr cih (progressive taxation is completely unfair, everyone should be taxed at the same rate ala a flat tax.)

Implement mandatory conservation, recycling, and more efficient versions of things. It's absurd we tax more rather than cutting back even if that means draconian laws 'encouraging' it. Can't build new power generating plants everytime existing supply can't meet the deamnd - you cut back usage and the demand. Otherwise it's like raising the debt ceiling every year instead of capping it and facing the music at long last.

I also believe in taxing everyone at the same rate. And, I believe that having a sales tax that covers all taxation is way better than what we have now.

All taxation is just legalized theft by the government. Suppose it's a necessary evil though. Though I'd lvoe to see what happens when there are no taxes at all. Bet there's less wars... But it seems to me if we tax more successful people a higher percentage then that's just punishing that success and is thus unfair. Also, there seems to be a lot of overlap with taxes. If you tax a set amount once, then taxing it again is also unfair. Yet that's exactly what we do with federal, state, and local taxes taxing the same fixed amount multiple times.

We tax earnings.
Then we tax what remains again at the state level.
Then we tax that remainder a third time locally.
Then we tax it yet again, a fourth time if you dare to actually spend any of it via Sales Tax.
And we don't stop there. You get taxed additional times if you invest in others and are actually successful. Get taxed if you dare die and have a balance remaining.

We're awfully taxed for a supposedly free coutnry. This is the only area I'm aware of I actually agree with the Tea Partiers.

So having the record wealth inequality is not enough, you want more.

Even the the rich are worried:
At Davos rising income inequality worries some billionaires too - CSMonitor.com

So drink the kool-aid...

 

[deltex1]

We could certainly reduce the cost of war. A couple of old nukes would replace feeding and supplying 100000 soldiers for 5 years.

True. Just as putting a bullet in your head will drastically reduce your food budget. But the solution is a tad counter productive.

We would be nuking them, not us.

If you actually think that, it is a good thing you don't have access to them.

I had access for ten years...if you got em, use em.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Raise taxes on the rich, tax college savings, raise gasoline taxes, and cut social programs? Or, cut the enormous waste that we all know should be cut? Or, should we do a combination of both? If your answer is to cut waste, what are the most obvious areas of waste that you would cut? If your answer is to raise taxes, what taxes would you increase? Or, what new taxes would you add? If your answer is to raise taxes, where would you use the new revenue? If your answer is to cut waste, where would you use the savings?

We need to reduce waste, that is a given, but, we also need to put the lower middle class back on the tax rosters.

We need a debt reduction surcharge too.

If people were actually feeling the debt, they might pay attention to who they elect and how their reps vote.

The debt proves that as a society, we are grossly undertaxed.

Far too many have no skin in the game.

Everyone pays taxes. Everyone pays when they make a purchase. And, don't forget, car tags, property taxes, taxes added to phone bills and cable bills, etc. We all pay taxes. Not everyone pays payroll taxes because not everyone is employed.

If your net taxes paid do not exceed unearned benefits received, for all practical purposes, you are not a taxpayer.

That is more than half the country.

That is really ridiculous to me. But, we're all entitled to our opinion, and I respect your right to express yours.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Yes, I remember reading about all the money that went missing in Iraq. Yes, defense spending is favoritism, kick-backs, and wasteful beyond words. But, we have many other areas of obvious waste and abuse of tax dollars also. We could save untold multi-$Billions by cutting just the obvious waste.

What waste?

Building mosques on foreign soil, building the fence along our southern border, supplying weapons to drug lords and terrorists, foreign aid, luxury prisons, the care and support of illegal immigrants, subsidies, excessive government travel, senseless deadly costly wars, no-bid government contracts, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Interesting. You want to open up our borders but you don't want to have care and support for illegal immigrants. Do you see a contradiction there? Social security is a subsidy, as is money paid to states for education. Government travel is so small as to be inconsequential. I agree with you on wars, but where is the line? Foreign aid is a real benefit to us, especially if you don't want to get involved in costly wars. Luxury prisons? I'm not sure I follow that.

I think the point really is that there is little which someone is not going to see as essential.

I have never ever said, nor implied, that I want to open our borders, never. I have said many times that we should uphold our immigration laws to the letter. I have also said many times, that we should place everyone that hires, or gives any kind of help or assistance to illegal immigrants, in prison for life without the possibility of parole. Social Security is NOT a subsidy, by any stretch of the imagination. Social Security is money paid in by payroll deductions and employers. Money for education comes from property taxes and other taxes. We pay for education out f our pockets. I pay a school tax every single year through my property taxes. Government travel is included in the waste regardless of how small it is. The line on wars is to fight war as war, get it over and done with in a matter of days, and then come home. Foreign aid is "give-aways" to foreign governments. Very little of the foreign aid actually goes for the purposes and causes for which it is given. Africa I a great example of that. Prisons have gyms, computers, libraries, big screen TV's, basket ball courts, etc. etc. etc. Prison are confinement resorts.

You want the borders closed but you don't want a fence. Thus we have the real problem. What you would call waste I might call essential. What we both my call essential, someone else would call waste. For example, my problem with foreign aid is that we don't do enough of it. The problem with prisons is that there are not enough luxuries. The so called war on drugs is a complete waste of money, but others would say it needs to be ramped up. Everyone has a different view and this is a representative democracy.

Closing the border doesn't require a fence. Yes, we're all entitled to our opinion, I agree.

 

[hipeter924]

Raising or lowering taxes won't limit government waste, as it is a work culture issue and to do with corporate welfare policy. Cut taxes and you just have a less efficient and more disorganized government. Increase taxes and you incremently increase the waste alongside it.

 

[hadit]

Raising or lowering taxes won't limit government waste, as it is a work culture issue and to do with corporate welfare policy. Cut taxes and you just have a less efficient and more disorganized government. Increase taxes and you incremently increase the waste alongside it.

It is true that the culture in Washington is focused on preventing budget growth from ever slowing, much less actual budget cuts. That's where transparency comes in. Eliminate baseline budgeting and hidden deals.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Raising or lowering taxes won't limit government waste, as it is a work culture issue and to do with corporate welfare policy. Cut taxes and you just have a less efficient and more disorganized government. Increase taxes and you incremently increase the waste alongside it.

The government could run and function just fine with less taxes. They could easily fund government with the waste and abuse of tax dollars.

 

[hipeter924]

Raising or lowering taxes won't limit government waste, as it is a work culture issue and to do with corporate welfare policy. Cut taxes and you just have a less efficient and more disorganized government. Increase taxes and you incremently increase the waste alongside it.

The government could run and function just fine with less taxes. They could easily fund government with the waste and abuse of tax dollars.

And how will you get that waste down, as more often than not the waste has a way of protecting itself at the expense of the rest of the department, when cuts are made.