R.I.P. "Never-Trump" movement, 2015-2024

Tougher border security would solve the entire problem. They wouldn't be here in the first place. Democrats are stupid. It's that simple.
Meanwhile, Biden is selling off the border wall for 5 cents on the taxpayer dollar.
 
Meanwhile, Biden is selling off the border wall for 5 cents on the taxpayer dollar.

Right, because they don't care one bit about people coming into the country illegally. They believe it ultimately means for votes and that is all they care about. Our nation's sovereignty be damned.
 
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Then you trust people only in it for personal gain. The money for hating Trump has come from gullible fucks like you. 51 Intel people lied about the laptop of Hunters. Testimony has proven witnesses wrong. The media has been sued and have settled. You are looking at a failure. Your narrative has been blown to bits.
 
They even apply tariffs to the food you export so you think they care about costs to their citizens? Are citizens not going to eat anymore?

China only started applying tariffs to American Agriculture after Trump imposed tariffs on Chinese Manufactured goods.

So here's how China got around that.

1) They bought their agricultural goods from other countries, particularly South America.
2) They sold their manufactured goods to wholesalers in Latin America (with no tariffs) who sold them in the US with no Tariffs.

China is the greatest trade abuser in the world. I don't blame them they are just exploiting the corrupt and weak global leadership. I blame the rocket scientist Establishment who ran the West for the last 30 years.

I blame our leadership for not maintaining manufacturing in this country.

Their greatest crime is the suppression of their currency which doesn't float. For that reason alone, you are subsidizing China to the tune of hundreds of billions a year, which China then lends back to you. The U.S taxpayer should be outraged!

That sounds like a problem with our leadership not living within their means, not China's fault for loaning us some of the money we need to borrow.

China only holds about 800 Billion of the 33 Trillion the US is in debt, about 3%. I know this is hard for you to grasp, you are still wetting yourself over the imaginary Chinaman hiding under your bed.

The number of incidents and details I could provide would go on forever and you aren't interested in seeing the facts anyways. You are living as if it's 1999.

Because, frankly, most of what you come up with as facts, are a lot of bullshit.

If space aliens had been looking at this planet for the last 200 years, they'd find a lot more fault with the West than China. But you'll freak out if they take some crappy little Island in the South China Sea.

Thankfully, your ideology is fading faster than a Michael Jordan fade-away shot.

Sorry, bud... Trump will fail and we'll go back to doing it my way.
 
Meanwhile, Biden is selling off the border wall for 5 cents on the taxpayer dollar.

Awesome. Our money never should have been wasted on that shit.

Right, because they don't care one bit about people coming into the country illegally. They believe it ultimately means for votes and that is all they care about. Our nation's sovereignty be damned.

Here's the problem, guy.

We actually need those people. Americans by themselves aren't reproducing at replacement rates.

But because of politicians want to pander to Billy-Bob Cleetus, who lives in mortal fear that a Mexican might date his sister, we don't have a sensible immigration policy.
 
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You are stupid, aren't you, Cleetus.

The problem with building a 20" Fence for millions of dollars is someone can buy a 21-Foot ladder for $300,

A wall slows them down. Coupled with cameras, they make a huge difference.

Walls and fences work, which is why they are used by everyone all over the world.

Again, you guys aren't to bright.
 
Yup. He warns that we will pay more for lettuce if we deport illegals.

(Never mind the $150 billion a year we’ll save.)

They are unable to grasp the fact that not securing the border cost us a lot of money and is a major security threat. We have to start to realize that people like Joe can't change, short a lobotomy.
 
A wall slows them down. Coupled with cameras, they make a huge difference.

Walls and fences work, which is why they are used by everyone all over the world.

Again, you guys aren't to bright.

What works in the rest of the world is the rest of the world aren't places people want to go.

Again, if you want to end illegal immigration, you go after the people who are hiring them to start with.

That would end it.

We won't, because that would upset too many business interests who really WANT exploitable labor.

A fence that can be defeated by a $300 ladder or a $79.00 Sawzall isn't a very good investment. Half of the undocumented immigrants never came here over a fence. They came here legally on student, work, or tourist visas that they overstayed.
 
So we put razor wire at the top.

Wire cutters. You don't seem to understand human ingenuity, do you?

Yup. He warns that we will pay more for lettuce if we deport illegals.

(Never mind the $150 billion a year we’ll save.)

Wow, you are pretty stupid, aren't you? I thought you people were supposed to be smart with money.


  • Mass deportation would exacerbate the U.S. labor shortage. In 2022, nearly 90 percent of undocumented immigrants were of working age, compared to 61.3 percent of the U.S.-born population aged between 16 and 64, making undocumented immigrants more likely to actively participate in the labor force. Losing these working-age undocumented immigrants would worsen the severe workforce challenges that many industries have already been struggling with in the past few years.
  • Mass deportation would hurt several key U.S. industries that rely heavily on undocumented workers. The construction and agriculture industries would lose at least one in eight workers, while in hospitality, about one in 14 workers would be deported due to their undocumented status. Among those industries, certain trades would be hit even harder. Mass deportation would remove more than 30 percent of the workers in major construction trades, such as plasterers, roofers, and painters; nearly 28 percent of graders and sorters of agriculture products; and a fourth of all housekeeping cleaners.
  • he U.S. would lose out on key contributions undocumented households make to social safety net programs annually, including $22.6 billion to Social Security and $5.7 billion to Medicare. As the U.S. population ages, the loss of these payments would make it increasingly challenging to keep social safety net programs solvent.
  • Mass deportation would deprive federal, state, and local governments of billions in local tax contributions from undocumented households. In 2022 alone, undocumented immigrant households paid $46.8 billion in federal taxes and $29.3 billion in state and local taxes. After taxes, they were left with $256.8 billion in spending power, money that could be spent in local communities.
  • Deporting undocumented immigrants would separate 4 million mixed-status families, affecting 8.5 million U.S. citizens with undocumented family members (5.1 million of whom are U.S. citizen children). It would slash the income of their households by an average of 62.7 percent ($51,200 per year).
  • Overall, mass deportation would lead to a loss of 4.2 percent to 6.8 percent of annual U.S. GDP, or $1.1 trillion to $1.7 trillion in 2022 dollars. In comparison, the U.S. GDP shrunk by 4.3 percent during the Great Recession between 2007 and 2009.
  • The negative impact would be the most significant in California, Texas, and Florida, the three states that were home to 47.2 percent of the country's undocumented immigrants in 2022 and where one in every 20 residents would be deported.
 
Yep, there is no denying it anymore--- Biden was a fluke, he was never about America.

That just leaves you still a shitstain.

Well, Vichy Mac is a shitstain, but if anyone is a fluke, it's Trump.

He's at that weird intersection of America that considers celebrity to be an intersection with merit. That and he was very lucky with bad opponents. (If he had to run against someone with the skills of Obama or Bill Clinton, he'd have been toast.)
 
They are unable to grasp the fact that not securing the border cost us a lot of money and is a major security threat. We have to start to realize that people like Joe can't change, short a lobotomy.

Well, your irrational fears aren't really a good basis for policy.

Having already debunked the whole "Immigrants are bad for the economy" (when in fact, the economy depends on them), let's look at the "Security" issue.

Number of illegal immigrants who have committed terrorist acts? ZERO. They've all either been American citizens radicalized online (more likely by White Nationalists than Islamic fundamentalists) or foreigners who came here on legal visas with the full blessing of our government. 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, but we are still kissing Saudi ass.

As for crime, in fact, immigrants commit less crime than people born here. Understandable, because even an arrest for a petty crime has the potential of deportation.


Researchers also looked specifically at homicide arrest trends. These rates tend to fluctuate more than the overall violent crime arrest rates because murders are relatively rare compared to other crimes. In addition, a large share of homicides go unsolved. Still, undocumented immigrants had the lowest homicide arrest rates throughout the entire study period, averaging less than half the rate at which U.S.-born citizens were arrested for homicide.[3] (The homicide rate for documented immigrants fluctuated. Sometimes it was higher than the rate for U.S.-born citizens and sometimes it was lower.)

Every other violent and property crime type the researchers examined followed the same general pattern. The offending rates of undocumented immigrants were consistently lower than both U.S.-born citizens and documented immigrants for assault, sexual assault, robbery, burglary, theft, and arson.

For drug offenses, too, undocumented immigrants were less than half as likely to be arrested as native-born U.S. citizens.[4] Moreover, the drug crime arrest rate for the undocumented population held steady throughout the seven years of data, while the rate for native-born citizens increased almost 30% during that time. As a result, undocumented immigrants had a smaller share of arrests for drug crimes in 2018 than they had in 2012.

Finally, the researchers conducted statistical tests to determine whether the share of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants had increased for any offense types between 2012 and 2018. They concluded, “There is no evidence that the prevalence of undocumented immigrant crime has grown for any category.”[5] As with drug offenses, evidence suggests the share of property and traffic crimes committed by undocumented immigrants decreased or remained close to constant throughout the period.
 
What works in the rest of the world is the rest of the world aren't places people want to go.

Again, if you want to end illegal immigration, you go after the people who are hiring them to start with.

That would end it.

We won't, because that would upset too many business interests who really WANT exploitable labor.

A fence that can be defeated by a $300 ladder or a $79.00 Sawzall isn't a very good investment. Half of the undocumented immigrants never came here over a fence. They came here legally on student, work, or tourist visas that they overstayed.
Nice. Let's not worry about the raped and murdered by people that should not be here. You want chaos.
 
Again, if you want to end illegal immigration, you go after the people who are hiring them to start with.

It is hilarious that you still believe that hte only reason people come to the US is for jobs. You don’t think pregnant women days before their due dates don’t cross our border to have baby for free in an American hospital that will then be an American citizen, meaning they qualify for all sorts of federal and local aid? You don’t think they come because sanctuary cities are offering them, food, money and housing? You don’t get that our standard of living, even for those illegals that are not working, is significantly better than where many have come. You don’t think they are aware that Democrats are hell bent on providing them amnesty at the least and even potential citizenship for political reasons? There are plenty of incentives other than jobs for people to illegally cross our border.

A fence that can be defeated by a $300 ladder or a $79.00 Sawzall isn't a very good investment.

You still don’t get it. A wall is a significant slow down. For starters, carrying a large extension ladder from their homeland to the wall would be just a tad inconvenient. Maybe you have never carried a large one before. Secondly, cameras would see them attempting to climb the wall, providing ample time for a nearby border patrol agent in a helicopter to get there. You have fallen for false rhetoric regarding a wall. The idea that it is antiquated and isn’t is a left-wing talking point not based in reality. It would not be 100%, but would be far better than the nothing we have now.

Having already debunked the whole "Immigrants are bad for the economy" (when in fact, the economy depends on them), let's look at the "Security" issue.

“ILLEGAL immigrants are bad for the economy”. Fixed it for you.

Number of illegal immigrants who have committed terrorist acts?

I don’t believe a Mexican illegal is likely to commit a terrorist act in the US. I am also not so naive to know that an Islamic terrorist could just as easily walk across our Southern border and many likely have. Statistically speaking, out of 8-10 million to crossing the border, 1000 terrorists would be a small number. They will eventually do something and I am sure that Democrats will blame Republicans for the acts, especially if Trump is President. Nobody and I mean nobody, can possibly believe that it is not a security issue to allow people to walk across our border without us knowing anything about them or that they are even here. That is just plain stupid.
 
The "Never-Trumper" coalition is dead. It's over. While they were yammering about "fascism" and "protect muh democracy" and voting for Kamala Harris, what ordinary people really cared about this year were the high cost of living and the chaos at the border.


Done With Never Trump​


"It’s been more than nine years since I first denounced Donald Trump as a “loudmouth vulgarian appealing to quieter vulgarians.” I’ve called myself a Never Trump conservative ever since, even when I agreed with his policies from time to time. I also opposed him throughout his run this year.

Could his second term be as bad as his most fervent critics fear? Yes. Is it time to drop the heavy moralizing and incessant doomsaying that typified so much of the Never Trump movement — and that rendered it politically impotent and frequently obtuse? Yes, please.

Who, and what, is Trump? He’s a man and the symbol of a movement. The man is crass but charismatic, ignorant but intuitive, dishonest but authentic. The movement is patriotic — and angry.

Some of that anger is intensely bigoted and some of it misplaced. That side of the anger gets most of the media’s attention. But some of it, too, is correctly directed at a self-satisfied elite that thinks it knows better but often doesn’t, whether the subject is Covid restrictions, immigration policy or how to get our allies to pay more for their defense.

It’s Trump’s sulfurous contempt for that elite — his refusal to be shaped by their norms or shamed by their scorn and his willingness to call out their hypocrisy — that makes him a hero to his followers. Cases in point: How come so many who denounce Trump as a sexual predator were, 20 years earlier, Bill Clinton’s steadfast defenders? Why were the same people who demanded investigations into every corner of the Trump family’s business dealings so incurious about the Biden family’s dealings, like the curiously high prices for Hunter’s paintings?

Never Trumpers — I include myself in this indictment — never quite got the point. It wasn’t that we’d forgotten Clinton’s scandals or were ignorant of the allegations about the Bidens. It’s that we thought Trump degraded the values that conservatives were supposed to stand for. We also thought that Trump represented a form of illiberalism that was antithetical to our “free people, free markets, free world” brand of conservatism and that was bound to take the Republican Party down a dark road.

In this we weren’t wrong: There’s plenty to dislike and fear about Trump from a traditionally conservative standpoint. But Never Trumpers also overstated our case and, in doing so, defeated our purpose.

How so? We warned that Trump would be a reckless president who might stumble into World War III. If anything, his foreign policy in his first term was, in practice, often cautious to a fault. We hyperventilated about his odd chumminess with Vladimir Putin. But the collusion allegations were a smear, and Trump’s Russia policy — whether it was his opposition to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline or his covert aid to Ukraine — was much tougher than either Barack Obama’s or (at least until Russia invaded Ukraine) President Biden’s.

We predicted that Trump’s rhetoric would wreck the Republican Party’s chances to win over the constituencies the party had identified, after 2012, as key to its future. But we missed that his working-class appeal would also reach working-class minorities — like the 48 percent of Latino male voters who cast their ballots for him last month. And we were alarmed by Trump’s protectionism and big-spending ways. But the economy mostly thrived under him, at least until the pandemic.

We also talked a lot about democracy. That’s important: The memory of Jan. 6 and Trump’s 2020 election lies were the main reasons I voted for Kamala Harris. But if democracy means anything, it’s that ordinary people, not elites, get to decide how important an event like Jan. 6 is to them. Turns out, not so much.

What ordinary people really cared about this year were the high cost of living and the chaos at the border. Why did Trump — so often deprecated by his critics as a fortunate fool — understand this so well while we fecklessly carried on about the soul of the nation?

What else did we not sufficiently appreciate? That, as much as Trump might lie, Americans also felt lied to by the left — particularly when it came to the White House cover-up of Biden’s physical and mental decline. That, as bigoted as elements of the MAGA world can be, there is plenty of bigotry to go around — not least in the torrent of Israel-bashing and antisemitism that emerged from the cultural left after Oct. 7. That, as much as we fear Trump could wreck some of our institutions, whether it’s higher education or the F.B.I., many of those institutions are already broken and may need to be reconceived or replaced.

So here’s a thought for Trump’s perennial critics, including those of us on the right: Let’s enter the new year by wishing the new administration well, by giving some of Trump’s cabinet picks the benefit of the doubt, by dropping the lurid historical comparisons to past dictators, by not sounding paranoid about the ever-looming end of democracy, by hoping for the best and knowing that we need to fight the wrongs that are real and not merely what we fear, that whatever happens, this too shall pass.

Enjoy the holidays."

Opinion | Done With Never Trump


They should still shave their heads and move to France.


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