Quit or Fired?

[iamwhatiseem]

Oh and by the way your rates went up this year likely due to your state increasing the percentage regardless of any increase/decrease in laid-off employees.
Many states (including mine) raised the rates because your government turned unemployment compensation into welfare.

 

[JoeB131]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

My first thought- why did you hire him to start with?

My second thought- The UI system is really designed to be friendly to workers, as it should be. After all, it's the government and they vote. Unless you documented every instance of non-attentdence and corrective actions you took, they'd probably rule in his favor.

 

[Paulie]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

My first thought- why did you hire him to start with?

Why do you ask? Because he admitted to having a past issue with drugs?

 

[The Professor]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

Your only burden is proving misconduct. Chronic non-attendance would be misconduct, no?

Many labor arbitrators have ruled that non-attendance which is the result of chronic illness is not "misconduct" as that word is generally defined. However, these same arbitrators acknowledge an employer's right to terminate an employee whose attendance reaches an unacceptable level, regardless of the cause.

A pivotal case involved the U.S. Postal Service. A few decades ago, the USPS started taking disciplinary action against its employees for poor attendance. The Union agreement specifically stated that no employee would be disciplined except for just cause, and the Union contended that an employee should not be disciplined because of something which was beyond his/her control. The Union took the case to arbitration and lost. The arbitrator ruled that although non-attendance caused by illness or injury was not misconduct, no employer is required to accept an employee who was unable to maintain a reliable schedule. The arbitrator said that an employee's inability to maintain an acceptable schedule constituted a failure to meet the requirements of the position and was grounds for termination.

Should an employee apply for Unemployment Compensation, the only thing in dispute is whether the employee's attendance was so terrible that termination was warranted. In making this determination, a number of factors must be considered, including local law, any union agreement or employees' handbook, and the company's history in dealing with non-attendance issues. In the present case, I am certain that the failure to show up for work for two months without notification to the employee is grounds for removal in any jurisdiction.

 

[Vidi]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

Didnt you have him sign seperation papers?

I make EVERY employee sign seperation papers before recieving their final paycheck. If they quit, it says so. If I fire them, it says so.

 

[The Professor]

One more comment before I go. Often, those people with attendance problems also have a problem with alcohol or drugs. People with such addictions often end up going to jail. Most working stiffs would get their final check as soon as they could, and the fact this guy didn't pick up his paycheck for two months raises all my red flags. I would ask the OP to check to see if the man was incarcerated during this time.

OK, I know you guys are tired of reading my posts, so see ya and have a great day.

 

[AVG-JOE]

In the future if you have an employee with a drug problem, or a problem getting to work, on time or at all, your best course of action is to have a 'chat' with him/her. Put them on notice that future violations of whatever will be cause for termination. Give them a last chance document, spell out your expectations and have the employee sign a "last chance" contract.

It's a simple way to solve what may become a problem.

You are right Wry. We had no "contract" but that conversation did take place. The guy was up front about his addiction when he was hired. He said he had been clean for 2 years and was in a stable relationship and was starting over. And as I said, he was very good at his job.

But this is the problem. I am fairly certain that my husband did warn him that subsequent "no show, no calls" would result in termination. And in that case, he could have assumed that he was fired, after the last one.

This is why it is tricky and he could very well prevail. But it's not right. What's to stop anyone from just not going to work and then getting fired?

BTW - Believe it or not, hubby could still use him. He's going to tell the UI office he can have his job back. If he refuses, (which I suspect he will), then we may have a stronger case.

You SHOULD have an impenetrable case! Isn't the unemployment benefit supposed to be a tide-me-over between jobs when one is lost through no fault of the employee? If he is offered a job and turns it down, that constitutes a 'quit' in my average opinion.

Sounds like the clowns who aught to be fired are the ones you and your neighbors have hired to protect the interests of the Unemployment Trust Fund in your state.

 

[Lovebears65]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

I thought you only got unemployment if it was no fault of your own. Him not showing up is his fault no matter if he quit or you fired him.

 

[Luissa]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

I doubt it. In most cases I have heard of,if the person quit they usually get denied unemployment.
I think you should wait..to make a judgment on this.

 

[JoeB131]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

My first thought- why did you hire him to start with?

Why do you ask? Because he admitted to having a past issue with drugs?

Amongst other things.

Did they do background checks with past employers? Check out references?

 

[JakeStarkey]

We have quarterly review-challenge meetings with our employees in which we document where they do well and challenge where improvement is required. That includes attendance. If a person develops an attendance problem that is documented in a meeting with a written review of issue and consequences. Our paperwork is always in order, and we have never had a problem with UI rates.

The key is a consistent documented employer track of employee behavior.