Zone1 Question for Christians

[BULLDOG]

I was devoutly Christian until I did a deep study of the bible which presented questions I couldn't find the answers to, and nobody I asked even tried to answer. I wish I could reclaim my faith. Believing in a loving, all knowing God who deeply cared about me personally gave me great comfort in hard times, and I wish I could regain peace that came from the belief that all things would work for the good to them that love God. I conveniently ignored the following part that said only those that were called according to his purpose.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness. God will show mercy or harden who he wants, and nothing we believe, say, or do will have anything to do with his choice. (Romans 9: 16-18) Paul goes on to explain that some people were only created as examples of his glory to be shown to the objects of his mercy. (Romans 9: 19-23) Obviously, those people were created to go to hell, since there is nothing they can believe , or do to change Gods decision on mercy.

Help me out here. Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

 

[Votto]

I was devoutly Christian until I did a deep study of the bible which presented questions I couldn't find the answers to, and nobody I asked even tried to answer. I wish I could reclaim my faith. Believing in a loving, all knowing God who deeply cared about me personally gave me great comfort in hard times, and I wish I could regain peace that came from the belief that all things would work for the good to them that love God. I conveniently ignored the following part that said only those that were called according to his purpose.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness. God will show mercy or harden who he wants, and nothing we believe, say, or do will have anything to do with his choice. (Romans 9: 16-18) Paul goes on to explain that some people were only created as examples of his glory to be shown to the objects of his mercy. (Romans 9: 19-23) Obviously, those people were created to go to hell, since there is nothing they can believe , or do to change Gods decision on mercy.

Help me out here. Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

Just because God knows what are choice will be, (he has to because there is prophesy), does not mean we did not have a choice to begin with.

And if we all had made all choices the way God wanted, did we have a choice to begin with?

No.

I understand how this can make your head explode.

 

[pknopp]

I believe in the teachings of Jesus, not the teachings of Paul.

I believe the example set by Jesus is a good example to try and lead your life regardless of anything else.

 

[Votto]

I believe in the teachings of Jesus, not the teachings of Paul.

I believe the example set by Jesus is a good example to try and lead your life regardless of anything else.

Paul has nothing to do with this question.

God is either all knowing or he is not. If he is, then he knows what are choices will be. At the same time, that does not mean God chose for us.

 

[pknopp]

Paul has nothing to do with this question.

Odd that.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness.

 

[Votto]

Odd that.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness.

Wait.........wut?

 

[Grumblenuts]

George? Ringo?

 

[Votto]

I think I have a grasp on this particular question, but the truth is there will always be questions we can't answer.

Why?

Because God is all knowing and we are not. There is no way to remedy that fact since he is infinite and we are finite, as there will always be mysteries for the created to learn.

That is why faith is required. Faith is trusting in God who knows and understands all when we never will because we are unable

Otherwise, we would be God.

 

[JohnDB]

I was devoutly Christian until I did a deep study of the bible which presented questions I couldn't find the answers to, and nobody I asked even tried to answer. I wish I could reclaim my faith. Believing in a loving, all knowing God who deeply cared about me personally gave me great comfort in hard times, and I wish I could regain peace that came from the belief that all things would work for the good to them that love God. I conveniently ignored the following part that said only those that were called according to his purpose.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness. God will show mercy or harden who he wants, and nothing we believe, say, or do will have anything to do with his choice. (Romans 9: 16-18) Paul goes on to explain that some people were only created as examples of his glory to be shown to the objects of his mercy. (Romans 9: 19-23) Obviously, those people were created to go to hell, since there is nothing they can believe , or do to change Gods decision on mercy.

Help me out here. Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

Paul was discussing and explaining what had happened to the Pharaoh's in Egypt during the 10 plagues as well as the rivalry between Jacob and Esau.

And what most people miss is that the Pharaoh's hardened their own hearts before God did it for them. IOW they were given the choice until they weren't. Meaning that where God is patient...that patience is not inexhaustible. Esau wanted "one last party" before settling down into his role....and missed out on the blessing while doing so.
Again not proper attitudes.

Jesus again explained this human condition in the parable of the different soils. Some people are never and will never honor God.

You choose to be who you want to be. The choice is yours. Who are you?

Having a relationship with God is not exactly a comfortable thing. His power and might is kinda scary to say the least. We, as humans, are prone to screw up. But God is kind and forgiving. Still not a comfortable place to be as having God as a friend.

It's even more difficult to find a good church group to be involved with. So many just simply suck. The preacher phones in his sermons, the people phone in their morality, they don't do much collectively except claim status as "good guys".

You can make good choices or bad....and just because God knows the future just as well as the past does not mean that He will make you choose poorly. But He definitely knows what to do with your choices to achieve His goals.

 

[SaxonJackson]

I was devoutly Christian until I did a deep study of the bible which presented questions I couldn't find the answers to, and nobody I asked even tried to answer. I wish I could reclaim my faith. Believing in a loving, all knowing God who deeply cared about me personally gave me great comfort in hard times, and I wish I could regain peace that came from the belief that all things would work for the good to them that love God. I conveniently ignored the following part that said only those that were called according to his purpose.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness. God will show mercy or harden who he wants, and nothing we believe, say, or do will have anything to do with his choice. (Romans 9: 16-18) Paul goes on to explain that some people were only created as examples of his glory to be shown to the objects of his mercy. (Romans 9: 19-23) Obviously, those people were created to go to hell, since there is nothing they can believe , or do to change Gods decision on mercy.

Help me out here. Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

As a fallen and sinful Christian, I struggle with verses like "many are called, but few are chosen," and the passage about the 10 virgins standing at the door but only 5 (the ones who prepared) were allowed in. Etc.

But none of us know the heart and mind of God. His ways are not our ways. We can't think for Him. The best we can do is try to understand His will by reading the Bible and praying for His wisdom and truth. Don't let ourselves be influenced by "the world" which wants us to abandon God and follow the ways of men.

I know the following verse is used so often that it has almost become cliché, but I still put my faith in what it says:

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

But just as important as John 3:16 is John 3:18:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

It boils down to that choice. Accept Christ or reject Christ. Ultimately, we all have to trust that something or someone is true while all else is a lie. I simply believe that the Bible and Christ's Word are true.

 

[Votto]

As a fallen and sinful Christian, I struggle with verses like "many are called, but few are chosen," and the passage about the 10 virgins standing at the door but only 5 (the ones who prepared) were allowed in. Etc.

But none of us know the heart and mind of God. His ways are not our ways. We can't think for Him. The best we can do is try to understand His will by reading the Bible and praying for His wisdom and truth. Don't let ourselves be influenced by "the world" which wants us to abandon God and follow the ways of men.

I know the following verse is used so often that it has almost become cliché, but I still put my faith in what it says:

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

But just as important as John 3:16 is John 3:18:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

It boils down to that choice. Accept Christ or reject Christ. Ultimately, we all have to trust that something or someone is true while all else is a lie. I simply believe that the Bible and Christ's Word are true.

The disciples also had moments of struggle as we see in John 6

Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”

61Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? 62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

63The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

65Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

66From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him.

Peter’s Confession of Faith
(Matthew 16:13–20; Mark 8:27–30; Luke 9:18–20)

67So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”

68Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God."

I feel like Peter. Where else is there to go as Jesus makes the most sense cuz only his words give us life and makes the most sense.

 

[SaxonJackson]

The disciples also had moments of struggle as we see in John 6

Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”

61Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? 62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

63The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

65Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

66From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him.

Peter’s Confession of Faith
(Matthew 16:13–20; Mark 8:27–30; Luke 9:18–20)

67So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”

68Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God."

I feel like Peter. Where else is there to go as Jesus makes the most sense cuz only his words give us life.

Many think that Christians rest on blind faith without any thought or pondering put into it. But I, like millions of Christians, ponder these questions often. Mankind had to come into existence somehow. Some believe it was by pure chance (which takes faith) but I believe that we're here by design (which also requires faith).

Either God created everything by design and with purpose, or life and the entire universe are chance mistakes with no purpose at all.

 

[HaShev]

I was devoutly Christian until I did a deep study of the bible which presented questions I couldn't find the answers to, and nobody I asked even tried to answer. I wish I could reclaim my faith. Believing in a loving, all knowing God who deeply cared about me personally gave me great comfort in hard times, and I wish I could regain peace that came from the belief that all things would work for the good to them that love God. I conveniently ignored the following part that said only those that were called according to his purpose.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness. God will show mercy or harden who he wants, and nothing we believe, say, or do will have anything to do with his choice. (Romans 9: 16-18) Paul goes on to explain that some people were only created as examples of his glory to be shown to the objects of his mercy. (Romans 9: 19-23) Obviously, those people were created to go to hell, since there is nothing they can believe , or do to change Gods decision on mercy.

Help me out here. Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

1)why is this question only for Christians?
2)Judaism states you should not listen to Paul, because he was a political prisoner (as well as a slayer of people based on prejudices) and that makes him compromised in various ways as well as affect his judgement on humanity.
Source:
The Dead Sea Scrolls



(4Q266 -7 fr 5) warned us of a rule they had back then about not listening to leaders/teachers who had been politically imprisoned as we see why through history, if only we had obeyed the simple rule.
List of Political prisoners who came out with a lust for blood and hate for humanity as they turned into psychopathic murderers who caused attrocities and were the cause of wars and more murders:

Paul of Tarsus who had murdered many varied christ cult followers wrote 3/4 the text that caused over thousands of wars and over 50 million murders and the 3main martyrs used to create the central figure YESHU son of Mary-YEHUDA the Galilean- and Theudas the River Jordan figure, all political prisoners who got their followers slain, but also are used for these thousands of wars and millions of murders.
Others this warning fits:
Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin,
Pol Pot, Saddam, Arafat, Zarquawi, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, Turkey's tyrant Erdogan and I think that Islamic radical guy in Africa Mokhtar Belmokhtar, & Idi Amin might be another qualifying for that list: he had similarities to Saddam: Deserted by his father at an early age, he was brought up by his mother like Saddam and came from a small Islamic tribe.
President Obote put Amin under house arrest so technically he was also a political prisoner before he declared himself president and did a number on the people mainly ' hunting down Obote's supporters' much like Saddam hunted down kurds and Shiites, & his opposition supporters
.


.

 

[there4eyeM]

I was devoutly Christian until I did a deep study of the bible which presented questions I couldn't find the answers to, and nobody I asked even tried to answer. I wish I could reclaim my faith. Believing in a loving, all knowing God who deeply cared about me personally gave me great comfort in hard times, and I wish I could regain peace that came from the belief that all things would work for the good to them that love God. I conveniently ignored the following part that said only those that were called according to his purpose.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness. God will show mercy or harden who he wants, and nothing we believe, say, or do will have anything to do with his choice. (Romans 9: 16-18) Paul goes on to explain that some people were only created as examples of his glory to be shown to the objects of his mercy. (Romans 9: 19-23) Obviously, those people were created to go to hell, since there is nothing they can believe , or do to change Gods decision on mercy.

Help me out here. Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

The basic theological premise is that "God" is perfect and only the perfect can be in "God"'s presence. Humans being as we are, we are almost universally excluded from the possibility of admittance to this presence. Therefore, any avenue for humans to regain access has to be something "God" has additionally provided out of sympathy for us. This is called grace. The Christian principal is that grace redeems us. That is the simple explanation of the belief in being able to get into heaven.
It is also possible that even if "God" exists we have so far completely misunderstood everything and will all have a very long laugh after we "shuffle off this mortal coil" and see truth for what it is.

 

[BULLDOG]

Paul was discussing and explaining what had happened to the Pharaoh's in Egypt during the 10 plagues as well as the rivalry between Jacob and Esau.

And what most people miss is that the Pharaoh's hardened their own hearts before God did it for them. IOW they were given the choice until they weren't. Meaning that where God is patient...that patience is not inexhaustible. Esau wanted "one last party" before settling down into his role....and missed out on the blessing while doing so.
Again not proper attitudes.

Jesus again explained this human condition in the parable of the different soils. Some people are never and will never honor God.

You choose to be who you want to be. The choice is yours. Who are you?

Having a relationship with God is not exactly a comfortable thing. His power and might is kinda scary to say the least. We, as humans, are prone to screw up. But God is kind and forgiving. Still not a comfortable place to be as having God as a friend.

It's even more difficult to find a good church group to be involved with. So many just simply suck. The preacher phones in his sermons, the people phone in their morality, they don't do much collectively except claim status as "good guys".

You can make good choices or bad....and just because God knows the future just as well as the past does not mean that He will make you choose poorly. But He definitely knows what to do with your choices to achieve His goals.

And that is exactly the same kind of gobbeldy gook that means nothing that I always receive, if I get any answer at all.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Remember what I said about "the world" attempting to pull you away from Christ. This effort will be made on a number of different fronts: religious, secular, political, social, and otherwise. Satan does NOT want you to follow Christ, the Bible, or His Apostles.

 

[BULLDOG]

As a fallen and sinful Christian, I struggle with verses like "many are called, but few are chosen," and the passage about the 10 virgins standing at the door but only 5 (the ones who prepared) were allowed in. Etc.

But none of us know the heart and mind of God. His ways are not our ways. We can't think for Him. The best we can do is try to understand His will by reading the Bible and praying for His wisdom and truth. Don't let ourselves be influenced by "the world" which wants us to abandon God and follow the ways of men.

I know the following verse is used so often that it has almost become cliché, but I still put my faith in what it says:

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

But just as important as John 3:16 is John 3:18:

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

It boils down to that choice. Accept Christ or reject Christ. Ultimately, we all have to trust that something or someone is true while all else is a lie. I simply believe that the Bible and Christ's Word are true.

That's exactly opposite of what Paul wrote.

 

[BULLDOG]

1)why is this question only for Christians?
2)Judaism states you should not listen to Paul, because he was a political prisoner (as well as a slayer of people based on prejudices) and that makes him compromised in various ways as well as affect his judgement on humanity.
Source:
The Dead Sea Scrolls



(4Q266 -7 fr 5) warned us of a rule they had back then about not listening to leaders/teachers who had been politically imprisoned as we see why through history, if only we had obeyed the simple rule.
List of Political prisoners who came out with a lust for blood and hate for humanity as they turned into psychopathic murderers who caused attrocities and were the cause of wars and more murders:

Paul of Tarsus who had murdered many varied christ cult followers wrote 3/4 the text that caused over thousands of wars and over 50 million murders and the 3main martyrs used to create the central figure YESHU son of Mary-YEHUDA the Galilean- and Theudas the River Jordan figure, all political prisoners who got their followers slain, but also are used for these thousands of wars and millions of murders.
Others this warning fits:
Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin,
Pol Pot, Saddam, Arafat, Zarquawi, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, Turkey's tyrant Erdogan and I think that Islamic radical guy in Africa Mokhtar Belmokhtar, & Idi Amin might be another qualifying for that list: he had similarities to Saddam: Deserted by his father at an early age, he was brought up by his mother like Saddam and came from a small Islamic tribe.
President Obote put Amin under house arrest so technically he was also a political prisoner before he declared himself president and did a number on the people mainly ' hunting down Obote's supporters' much like Saddam hunted down kurds and Shiites, & his opposition supporters
.


.

The question is only to Christians because I'm wanting answers concerning Christian beliefs. If I get courious about Judaism, I will start another thread.

 

[SaxonJackson]

That's exactly opposite of what Paul wrote.

I'm interested to see if or when Paul ever contradicted Christ.

 

[Blaster]

I was devoutly Christian until I did a deep study of the bible which presented questions I couldn't find the answers to, and nobody I asked even tried to answer. I wish I could reclaim my faith. Believing in a loving, all knowing God who deeply cared about me personally gave me great comfort in hard times, and I wish I could regain peace that came from the belief that all things would work for the good to them that love God. I conveniently ignored the following part that said only those that were called according to his purpose.

Paul was quite specific when he said there is nothing in human desire or effort to gain forgiveness. God will show mercy or harden who he wants, and nothing we believe, say, or do will have anything to do with his choice. (Romans 9: 16-18) Paul goes on to explain that some people were only created as examples of his glory to be shown to the objects of his mercy. (Romans 9: 19-23) Obviously, those people were created to go to hell, since there is nothing they can believe , or do to change Gods decision on mercy.

Help me out here. Does God offer the chance to go to heaven to everybody, or just his chosen few, and how do you justify what Paul wrote with the idea of a benevolent forgiving God?

Everyone has the chance to gain entry into Heaven. We all are sinners but God forgives those that repent their sins.