putin begins massive war call-up, flights sell out

[toomuchtime_]

If the Russian people turn against Putin, America will win the war.
If there is a large enough popular resistance, Putin will be assassinated.
Act like an adult or our conversation is over.

The Russian people have never had any influence over the Russian government except for a minute in 1917 and two minutes in the 1990's, and since there are no individual rights recognized by the Russian government there are no limits on how much force Putin can use to stop a popular uprising. If Putin is removed/assassinated it will be by other ultra-nationalists who are disgusted by his incompetence, and neither the people of Russia nor Ukraine will benefit.

 

[Donald H]

The Russian people have never had any influence over the Russian government except for a minute in 1917 and two minutes in the 1990's, and since there are no individual rights recognized by the Russian government there are no limits on how much force Putin can use to stop a popular uprising. If Putin is removed/assassinated it will be by other ultra-nationalists who are disgusted by his incompetence, and neither the people of Russia nor Ukraine will benefit.

You don't offer any hope at all for the Russian people preventing Putin from starting a nuclear war.

 

[alexa]

No, and not even inevitable. I'm only suggesting that Putin's resolve is solid and I suspect that the Russian people will stay the course with him.

I think that US and UK government will stay their course too.
And the people's resolve could be as strong and determined as is the Russian people's.

I would agree, but I haven't put much thinking into what that peace could entail.
We can all speculate but the rater childish tone of this board most likely won't suggest any answers.

About all I'll offer is a return to the Minsk agreement with UN policing.

Up until here I have no major issue. However the President of Ukraine was talking with Russia about that and possibly got good results because he then went and told Azov or/and similar to stop fighting. They told him in no uncertain terms 'No'. These Nationalists are not prepared to stop fighting until they have all Ukraine back. Then what they want I don't know but they are presumably going to make a peace deal difficult. Zelensky was told his life would go if he did not do what they wanted. So he has.,

No alexa, both sides aren't insane and that's not helpful.

It depends on what you mean by insane.

To that I suggest that America promoted the opportunity to escalate the fighting in the Ukraine that destroyed the Minsk agreement. The reason being that America's PNAC agenda is still the goal.

I think the US's interest in Ukraine goes even further back than PNAC though without that aggressiveness decided we would have been unlikely to see them wanting to seek out confrontation with Russia
Donald H
We're not going to fight an armchair war with each other! I'm here to explore the possibilities, as I expect you will too.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You don't offer any hope at all for the Russian people preventing Putin from starting a nuclear war.

Your post makes no sense unless you define "nuclear war". Do you mean a full scaled nuclear war between Russia and NATO or using some nukes in Ukraine?

 

[task0778]

Those who are trying to leave Russia now shoulda left a long time ago.

 

[Donald H]

Your post makes no sense unless you define "nuclear war". Do you mean a full scaled nuclear war between Russia and NATO or using some nukes in Ukraine?

I'm talking about the many possibilities. I'll talk about it in any way you choose to frame it. And I've already given my opinion that Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon would most likely not bring a full scale nuclear response by America.

Or, it 'would' bring a full scale nuclear response from America, if you like?

But of course the scenario I wouldn't entertain is that Russia will accept defeat and so if there is a significant nuclear response by America on Russia, there wouldn't be the obvious in return.

If you really want a grownup conversation with me, you can frame it any way you like.

I don't see much point.

 

[hadit]

I doubt if Putin will leave peacefully, much like his protégé Trump

Although, unlike TRUMP!, he is disposed to violence. No court room antics for him.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm talking about the many possibilities. I'll talk about it in any way you choose to frame it. And I've already given my opinion that Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon would most likely not bring a full scale nuclear response by America.

Or, it 'would' bring a full scale nuclear response from America, if you like?

But of course the scenario I wouldn't entertain is that Russia will accept defeat and so if there is a significant nuclear response by America on Russia, there wouldn't be the obvious in return.

If you really want a grownup conversation with me, you can frame it any way you like.

I don't see much point.

NATO would not have to provide a nuclear response
We could cripple them with conventional weapons.

Right now, Russia controls the skies

Once NATO gets involved, that would not be the case
He would not be able to support his supply lines and his home cities would be attacked

 

[Donald H]

NATO would not have to provide a nuclear response
We could cripple them with conventional weapons.

Right now, Russia controls the skies

Once NATO gets involved, that would not be the case
He would not be able to support his supply lines and his home cities would be attacked

If you're not going to pay attention to what I said, there's no point in wasting your time. I'll make it clear one more time.

Russia can't win a war against America, regardless of nato countries joining in.

Russia won't accept defeat.

Face it, the question is on whether or not the Russian people stay loyal to Putin and their military's resolve.

Ignore my opinion if that's what pleases you.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I'm talking about the many possibilities. I'll talk about it in any way you choose to frame it. And I've already given my opinion that Russia's use of a tactical nuclear weapon would most likely not bring a full scale nuclear response by America.

Or, it 'would' bring a full scale nuclear response from America, if you like?

But of course the scenario I wouldn't entertain is that Russia will accept defeat and so if there is a significant nuclear response by America on Russia, there wouldn't be the obvious in return.

If you really want a grownup conversation with me, you can frame it any way you like.

I don't see much point.

So I take it that when you talk about Russia starting a nuclear war as you did in your previous post you are talking about Russia using nukes in Ukraine and not about Russia launching a full scale nuclear attack on NATO. In either case, the Russian people have no influence on the actions of the Russian government.

The interesting question is, why would Putin use nukes in Ukraine since there are no military targets in Ukraine that Russia can't destroy with conventional weapons? The only answer that makes sense is that Putin would want to attack Ukrainian civilians on a scale so great and horrifying that he would hope to frighten everyone into surrendering, millions of dead civilians, perhaps tens of millions. Such an action would be a de facto confession from Putin that Russia cannot win the war in Ukraine.

There would be no nuclear response from the civilized world because it would serve no useful purpose, but there would be a reinvigorated commitment to destroy Russian forces in Ukraine and to grind down the Russian economy with economic sanctions. There simply is no scenario in which Russia does not lose in Ukraine and suffer greatly unless it withdraws completely from Ukraine.

 

[toomuchtime_]

NATO would not have to provide a nuclear response
We could cripple them with conventional weapons.

Right now, Russia controls the skies

Once NATO gets involved, that would not be the case
He would not be able to support his supply lines and his home cities would be attacked

It seems logical that the very large Russian air force would control the skies over Ukraine, but the Ukrainian air force has been playing a very active role in the counter offensive and Russia appears unable to stop them.

 

[task0778]

It seems logical that the very large Russian air force would control the skies over Ukraine, but the Ukrainian air force has been playing a very active role in the counter offensive and Russia appears unable to stop them.

I suspect the Ukrainian air defense systems are a big part of Russia's problems gaining control over Ukraine. I do not know the numbers, but I'd suggest that we and other NATO countries have probably sent over a ton of shoulder-fired surface to air missiles. Sorry, military hardware isn't my thing, but we seem to be sending a lotta stuff over there.

 

[toomuchtime_]

If you're not going to pay attention to what I said, there's no point in wasting your time. I'll make it clear one more time.

Russia can't win a war against America, regardless of nato countries joining in.

Russia won't accept defeat.

Face it, the question is on whether or not the Russian people stay loyal to Putin and their military's resolve.

Ignore my opinion if that's what pleases you.

What makes you think Russia won't accept defeat? It is clear by now that defeat on the battlefields in Ukraine and in Russia's resistance to sanctions is inevitable, so what is to be gained by "not accepting it?"

 

[xyz]

Right now, Russia controls the skies

They do not. I read something, it was a couple of days ago, maybe a week ago, they said Russian planes have not flown over Ukrainian-held areas in like a month, because they were too afraid of getting shot down and they lost too many planes.

 

[Litwin]

Your post makes no sense unless you define "nuclear war". Do you mean a full scaled nuclear war between Russia and NATO or using some nukes in Ukraine?

Those who are trying to leave Russia now shoulda left a long time ago.

NATO would not have to provide a nuclear response
We could cripple them with conventional weapons.

Right now, Russia controls the skies

Once NATO gets involved, that would not be the case
He would not be able to support his supply lines and his home cities would be attacked

They do not. I read something, it was a couple of days ago, maybe a week ago, they said Russian planes have not flown over Ukrainian-held areas in like a month, because they were too afraid of getting shot down and they lost too many planes.

video : Moscow´s Muslim colony Kabardino-Balkaria
- My two sons were taken away from my house, why?
- I would have sent my son too, but he is not eligible.


pootler is Nikolas the second N2

 

[Litwin]

Pootler could not satisfy his thirst for ethnic cleansing in Ukraine, so he does it to Moscow minorities

 

[Litwin]

 

[Litwin]

 

[Likkmee]

Sorry Donny

But it is much more complex than that.
The people don’t have much choice. Putin does not care about what the people think and will do what is necessary to stay in power. He is very good at it.

Try to keep up.

The people make up the band of meatheads with jingles.Jinglers are a problem.Meatheads say "YES SIR" to anything they're told

 

[Litwin]