Pure Spirit? Really?

[hobelim]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden. Think about that. It is not necessarily about audible footsteps.

They were still in the realm where God is perceptible to human beings. The connection between them through the only thing incorporeal about man, the conscious mind, was not yet broken.

 

[Czernobog]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Except that's not what it said. It says they heard his footsteps. One's footsteps cannot make a sound unless one is physical.

Next.

Depends on what version of the Bible you use, but the main version of the Bible that is the most used is the KJV, and that verse says that they heard His voice as He was walking in the garden.

Next.

BTW, why the snark? I was actually trying to answer your question, not get into a pissing contest. At least, until you started it.

Yeah.,..that's the problem with the King James. While the Old English is lyrical, the translation is, by far, the least accurate. You see, the word translated as "voice" in that verse is קוֹל(qowl), which acvtually means, either voice, or sound. However, the only other time "voice" is used is when it is actively ascribing the sound to a person speaking. Hence, the more logical translation in 3:8 is as it is found in the NIV - "Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day,"

Otherwise, if it was his "voice", what was he saying, and why was that not recorded, as it is every other time qowl is translated as "voice"?

The KJV is a modern English translation.

And you're not fooling anyone; you're not trying to get a theist to explain the discrepancy.

Yeah...you've got a very interesting definition of "modern". No one has talked the way the King James is written in...about 400 years. Regardless it is, inarguably, the least accurate translation of the original text available. And what is that you think I am doing?

 

[ValerieYanez]

If God didn’t exist science wouldn’t exist. Common sense.

Not even going to bother responding to that bullshit. Instead, I'll just wait for someone to actually respond to my OP.

That’s the truth

It's really not, but even if it were, it doesn't address the question in the OP. I'll assume that you have no answer. You are dismissed.

How are you going to post something and “dismiss” people with answers you don’t like. The bigger issue in your post needed to be addressed before answering the question. But whatever bye and enjoy your safe space SJW

I dismiss responses that are non-sequiturs. If you would like to be recognised, try responding on topic.

I would like to be red neck agonized

 

[Czernobog]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Except that's not what it said. It says they heard his footsteps. One's footsteps cannot make a sound unless one is physical.

Next.

Depends on what version of the Bible you use, but the main version of the Bible that is the most used is the KJV, and that verse says that they heard His voice as He was walking in the garden.

Next.

BTW, why the snark? I was actually trying to answer your question, not get into a pissing contest. At least, until you started it.

Yeah.,..that's the problem with the King James. While the Old English is lyrical, the translation is, by far, the least accurate. You see, the word translated as "voice" in that verse is קוֹל(qowl), which acvtually means, either voice, or sound. However, the only other time "voice" is used is when it is actively ascribing the sound to a person speaking. Hence, the more logical translation in 3:8 is as it is found in the NIV - "Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day,"

Otherwise, if it was his "voice", what was he saying, and why was that not recorded, as it is every other time qowl is translated as "voice"?

Thank you for saying that the KJV is full of errors. Most Christians would yell and scream if you said that to them. But, what do you expect from a book that was translated from Hebrew, to Greek, to Roman, to English?

If you're only sticking point is that they heard His voice but didn't record it, ever consider that God may have been humming or singing to Himself? He may have been particularly happy that day.

My "sticking point' is that translating the original Hebrew to "voice" makes no logical sense as it is found in that particular verse. "Sound" is the only translation of the word that works in the context.

 

[Czernobog]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden. Think about that. It is not necessarily about audible footsteps.

They were still in the realm where God is perceptible to human beings. The connection between them through the only thing incorporeal about man, the conscious mind, was not yet broken.

Yeah...think about that. It makes no sense. This is why the other, more accurate versions of the bible, translate the original Hebrew as sound not voice. Now, if we're going to spend all of our time arguing the proper translations, then we're going to get nowhere.

 

[Meriweather]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

 

[Czernobog]

Not even going to bother responding to that bullshit. Instead, I'll just wait for someone to actually respond to my OP.

That’s the truth

It's really not, but even if it were, it doesn't address the question in the OP. I'll assume that you have no answer. You are dismissed.

How are you going to post something and “dismiss” people with answers you don’t like. The bigger issue in your post needed to be addressed before answering the question. But whatever bye and enjoy your safe space SJW

I dismiss responses that are non-sequiturs. If you would like to be recognised, try responding on topic.

I would like to be red neck agonized

Gee. More non -sequiturs. And she wonders why I dismissed her.

 

[hobelim]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden. Think about that. It is not necessarily about audible footsteps.

They were still in the realm where God is perceptible to human beings. The connection between them through the only thing incorporeal about man, the conscious mind, was not yet broken.

Yeah...think about that. It makes no sense. This is why the other, more accurate versions of the bible, translate the original Hebrew as sound not voice. Now, if we're going to spend all of our time arguing the proper translations, then we're going to get nowhere.

Let me put it this way. If you cannot perceive the living God with your incorporeal mind a microscope won't help.

You might as well be seeking scientific proof that three pigs can build houses.

You are straining at a gnat but swallowing a camel.

 

[Czernobog]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

No. The Hebrew indicates that it was the sound of God moving. Trying to discount that part changers the entire passage. However, even ignoring that part. How does one "hear" something that is not physical?

 

[ABikerSailor]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

Thank you for the Hebrew translations Meriweather. One of the really important parts of those translations is that in the one that says they heard His voice, yes, that could be telepathy, and I think it may very well be.

But, Czernobog is saying that there are other versions that translate as "sound" instead of "voice", and in the other two translations that say sound instead of voice, it also says that where God was moving around in the garden, it was breezy or windy. Maybe His presence caused the wind, which in turn generated the noise?

 

[hobelim]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

No. The Hebrew indicates that it was the sound of God moving. Trying to discount that part changers the entire passage. However, even ignoring that part. How does one "hear" something that is not physical?

Words without sound.

What do you hear in your mind when you read?

Nothing?

What do you hear when you think if not words that make no sound?

 

[Czernobog]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden. Think about that. It is not necessarily about audible footsteps.

They were still in the realm where God is perceptible to human beings. The connection between them through the only thing incorporeal about man, the conscious mind, was not yet broken.

Yeah...think about that. It makes no sense. This is why the other, more accurate versions of the bible, translate the original Hebrew as sound not voice. Now, if we're going to spend all of our time arguing the proper translations, then we're going to get nowhere.

Let me put it this way. If you cannot perceive the living God with your incorporeal mind a microscope won't help.

You might as well be seeking scientific proof that three pigs can build houses.

You really need to quit using fables, and fairy tales as your analogies. Because that is rather the whole point of us atheists - that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of fables, and fairy tales written by men, and is no more reliable as evidence of anything than any other work of fiction.

 

[Czernobog]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

Thank you for the Hebrew translations Meriweather. One of the really important parts of those translations is that in the one that says they heard His voice, yes, that could be telepathy, and I think it may very well be.

But, Czernobog is saying that there are other versions that translate as "sound" instead of "voice", and in the other two translations that say sound instead of voice, it also says that where God was moving around in the garden, it was breezy or windy. Maybe His presence caused the wind, which in turn generated the noise?

Only if his presence was physical...

 

[hobelim]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden. Think about that. It is not necessarily about audible footsteps.

They were still in the realm where God is perceptible to human beings. The connection between them through the only thing incorporeal about man, the conscious mind, was not yet broken.

Yeah...think about that. It makes no sense. This is why the other, more accurate versions of the bible, translate the original Hebrew as sound not voice. Now, if we're going to spend all of our time arguing the proper translations, then we're going to get nowhere.

Let me put it this way. If you cannot perceive the living God with your incorporeal mind a microscope won't help.

You might as well be seeking scientific proof that three pigs can build houses.

You really need to quit using fables, and fairy tales as your analogies. Because that is rather the whole point of us atheists - that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of fables, and fairy tales written by men, and is no more reliable as evidence of anything than any other work of fiction.

So they amount to fairy tales and fables. So what. Why stop there?

What are those fables and fairy tales teaching?

If that remains hidden from you, you really have no way to measure their worth.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

Thank you for the Hebrew translations Meriweather. One of the really important parts of those translations is that in the one that says they heard His voice, yes, that could be telepathy, and I think it may very well be.

But, Czernobog is saying that there are other versions that translate as "sound" instead of "voice", and in the other two translations that say sound instead of voice, it also says that where God was moving around in the garden, it was breezy or windy. Maybe His presence caused the wind, which in turn generated the noise?

Only if his presence was physical...

Well, then think about this....................it is said that God is Light, and we know that light generates heat.

We also know that temperature differences is what generates wind.

Ever consider that it was the heat and light that God generates just by being Him caused temperature differentials where He was at in the garden, resulting in the breeze or wind being generated, and thus the sound?

 

[Meriweather]

I certainly take the Bible seriously, but not literally. There is a lot of honest guidance and comfort to be found in the bible. I use it for that. If you choose to take it literally, that's fine, but my life experience and logic doesn't allow me to do that. If it is more than I think it is, I hope someone will show me where I am wrong. It would be great to just let someone, or something make my decisions for me, and not have to worry if things will turn out for the best.

Centuries before the one we live in, Hebrew commentary did not take Genesis literally. Nor did it offer decisions. Instead, it offered insight on the human condition and the problems inherent in our humanity. Therefore, many of us consider your approach to the Bible spot on.

 

[Czernobog]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

No. The Hebrew indicates that it was the sound of God moving. Trying to discount that part changers the entire passage. However, even ignoring that part. How does one "hear" something that is not physical?

Words without sound.

What do you hear in your mind when you read?

Nothing?

What do you hear when you think if not words that make no sound?

Exactly. I hear nothing. Unless I'm read aloud. Which I rarely do if I am reading to myself. Interpreting words read is not the same as hearing them said. In fact, two very different parts of the brain are used to interpret visual cues (reading) and auditory cues (hearing). That's kinda basic physiology.

 

[Czernobog]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden. Think about that. It is not necessarily about audible footsteps.

They were still in the realm where God is perceptible to human beings. The connection between them through the only thing incorporeal about man, the conscious mind, was not yet broken.

Yeah...think about that. It makes no sense. This is why the other, more accurate versions of the bible, translate the original Hebrew as sound not voice. Now, if we're going to spend all of our time arguing the proper translations, then we're going to get nowhere.

Let me put it this way. If you cannot perceive the living God with your incorporeal mind a microscope won't help.

You might as well be seeking scientific proof that three pigs can build houses.

You really need to quit using fables, and fairy tales as your analogies. Because that is rather the whole point of us atheists - that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of fables, and fairy tales written by men, and is no more reliable as evidence of anything than any other work of fiction.

So they amount to fairy tales and fables. So what. Why stop there?

What are those fables and fairy tales teaching?

If that remains hidden from you, you really have no way to measure their worth.

Basically, they are teaching obedience to the theocratic government of the time.

 

[Czernobog]

I'll give it a shot.........................

God is a being of pure spirit and energy, which means that He would communicate via telepathy, and the reason they "heard" Him is probably that they heard Him thinking or more likely, felt His presence.

I mean, think about it..................when a person prays, they generally bow their heads and pray silently. That means they are using telepathy to speak to God.

BTW...................small favor next time...............could you include the whole Bible verse along with your OP next time? It sucks to have to go look up the verse on Google just so I can answer your question.

And no..................I'm not gonna post the verse for you either. If others want to know what the verse says, they can look it up themselves like I did.

Yes. Hebrew does not always translate well into English.

The translation in my Bible of Genesis 3:8 - When they heard the sound of the Lord God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of day, the man and his wife hid themselves...

Some Hebrew translations into English use - When they heard the voice of the Lord God
Another notes - They heard the sound of the Holy One as He walked in the garden in the wind of the day...

While the English translation gives the impression it was the sound of walking or moving around, the Hebrew indicates it was the sound of God. As you note this communication could have been more like we think of telepathy or of hearts communicating.

Thank you for the Hebrew translations Meriweather. One of the really important parts of those translations is that in the one that says they heard His voice, yes, that could be telepathy, and I think it may very well be.

But, Czernobog is saying that there are other versions that translate as "sound" instead of "voice", and in the other two translations that say sound instead of voice, it also says that where God was moving around in the garden, it was breezy or windy. Maybe His presence caused the wind, which in turn generated the noise?

Only if his presence was physical...

Well, then think about this....................it is said that God is Light, and we know that light generates heat.

We also know that temperature differences is what generates wind.

Ever consider that it was the heat and light that God generates just by being Him caused temperature differentials where He was at in the garden, resulting in the breeze or wind being generated, and thus the sound?

All of which is physical. All you're doing is confirming that, if he exists, the bible confirms that God is a physical being. If he is physical, then it should be possible to discover objective evidence of his existence.

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you for the Hebrew translations Meriweather. One of the really important parts of those translations is that in the one that says they heard His voice, yes, that could be telepathy, and I think it may very well be.

But, Czernobog is saying that there are other versions that translate as "sound" instead of "voice", and in the other two translations that say sound instead of voice, it also says that where God was moving around in the garden, it was breezy or windy. Maybe His presence caused the wind, which in turn generated the noise?

All I know is that it said "Sound of the Lord God" as He walked...not "The sound of the Lord God walking..." It is my understanding that "the windy part of the day" may also be more of an indicator of time. One of the words may indicate "west" or the evening of the day. Perhaps in that area, wind rose as the sun began to set? I am no expert in Hebrew, but I do know the Hebrew language is not subjective--it presents a picture.