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Oooh ... one ... and you saw this personally?
saw what personally? are you denying mccain was asked and provided those documents?
Sure, why not, I didn't personally see it, I have no more proof that they exist than you have for Obama ... so yeah. McCain lied about it and the whole government covered it up.
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
His Eligibility for Presidency Is Questioned
...
One person who disagrees with that premise is New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is "not a natural born citizen." In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain's birth certificate.
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate - washingtonpost.com
http[/quote]
There are more pics of Obamas ... and no less compelling.[/QUOTE]
[B]obama did not post an original[/B], he posted a computer generated copy, a short form copy, it is not at all like mccains which is a copy of the ORIGINAL...have you even read what my post above like i asked you to?
you're all over the place, claiming mccain lied, that we haven't seen mccain's original...you're just showing people you know squat and are talking out your arse...why?
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
His Eligibility for Presidency Is Questioned
...
One person who disagrees with that premise is New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is "not a natural born citizen." In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain's birth certificate.
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate - washingtonpost.com
Hmm ... you just made it easier to see that Obama was a more legitimate candidate, thanks.
http[/quote]
There are more pics of Obamas ... and no less compelling.[/QUOTE]
[B]obama did not post an original[/B], he posted a computer generated copy, a short form copy, it is not at all like mccains which is a copy of the ORIGINAL...have you even read what my post above like i asked you to?
you're all over the place, claiming mccain lied, that we haven't seen mccain's original...you're just showing people you know squat and are talking out your arse...why?[/QUOTE]
Meh ... as I said, all you have is the government's word for it, and if they lied about Obama's then it's also likely they lied about McCain's.
There are more pics of Obamas ... and no less compelling.
obama did not post an original, he posted a computer generated copy, a short form copy, it is not at all like mccains which is a copy of the ORIGINAL...have you even read what my post above like i asked you to?
you're all over the place, claiming mccain lied, that we haven't seen mccain's original...you're just showing people you know squat and are talking out your arse...why?
Meh ... as I said, all you have is the government's word for it, and if they lied about Obama's then it's also likely they lied about McCain's.
goodnight kitten, sleep well
Yurt said:no, in a court of law, if the origional exists, the electronic copy would be stricken. prima facie evidence is not conclusive proof david, you had right in the beginning, it is merely evidence, not proof. i guarantee you 100% that if the courts actually allowed standing obama would be ordered to provide the original as HI claims the original exists. see; best evidence rule and prima facie
No, sir. That is NOT an electronic copy. The photographs that I showed you are actual PAPER copies. It is what ALL short form birth certificates from the State of Hawaii look like. In every single legal challenge so far, Obama's SHORT FORM birth certificate has been shown and every single legal challenge has been thrown out due to prima facie.
We have PROOF, Yurt. You and the other Conspiracy Theorists just don't accept it. That's your problem.tell me david, do you agree that citizens do not have standing to demand the best proof possible? why did mccain provide all the proof he could and obama did everything he could to hide a copy of the original?
LMAO....you didn't read the statutes did you....i told you to
hey moron...it was NOT thrown out due to proof, BUT FOR LACK OF STANDING....sheesh, do you listen to anything anyone tells you or do you like looking like a fool? what you see IS NOT THE ORIGINAL...it is a COMPUTER generated copy. it does NOT contain all the information in the original, that is a fact, undisputed the world over.
now, let's see if you can wrap your head around this:
prima facie - it is clear you did not look it up as i asked, so i am now forced to do your homework for you. prima facie evidence merely raise a PRESUMPTION of a fact, it is as i said before not conclusive. once someone has established a prima facie case, the burden then shifts to the other party to PROVE the prima facie evidence is false (i'm cliff noting here as it relates to thsi case)....in this case, the courts never allowed the other party to present any evidence to rebut obama's NON-ORIGINAL copy of his birth certificate. the courts threw out the challenges......are you ready
only for lack of standing
so no rebuttal evidence has ever been allowed to counter obama's prima facie case that his birth certificate is valid...
i believe it is valid, however, the issue is, what is he hiding in the original and why is he fighting so hard to HIDE the original, going to so far as TO ORDER IT SEALED.
david, don't make me do you homework again, show some respect...
edit:
and david....why do you think it is called a SHORT form? do ya think maybe cause there is a LONGER form??????
No, sir. That is NOT an electronic copy. The photographs that I showed you are actual PAPER copies. It is what ALL short form birth certificates from the State of Hawaii look like. In every single legal challenge so far, Obama's SHORT FORM birth certificate has been shown and every single legal challenge has been thrown out due to prima facie.
We have PROOF, Yurt. You and the other Conspiracy Theorists just don't accept it. That's your problem.
LMAO....you didn't read the statutes did you....i told you to
hey moron...it was NOT thrown out due to proof, BUT FOR LACK OF STANDING....sheesh, do you listen to anything anyone tells you or do you like looking like a fool? what you see IS NOT THE ORIGINAL...it is a COMPUTER generated copy. it does NOT contain all the information in the original, that is a fact, undisputed the world over.
now, let's see if you can wrap your head around this:
prima facie - it is clear you did not look it up as i asked, so i am now forced to do your homework for you. prima facie evidence merely raise a PRESUMPTION of a fact, it is as i said before not conclusive. once someone has established a prima facie case, the burden then shifts to the other party to PROVE the prima facie evidence is false (i'm cliff noting here as it relates to thsi case)....in this case, the courts never allowed the other party to present any evidence to rebut obama's NON-ORIGINAL copy of his birth certificate. the courts threw out the challenges......are you ready
only for lack of standing
so no rebuttal evidence has ever been allowed to counter obama's prima facie case that his birth certificate is valid...
i believe it is valid, however, the issue is, what is he hiding in the original and why is he fighting so hard to HIDE the original, going to so far as TO ORDER IT SEALED.
david, don't make me do you homework again, show some respect...
edit:
and david....why do you think it is called a SHORT form? do ya think maybe cause there is a LONGER form??????
Absolutely there is a longer form - but the certificate of birth as it is is legally acceptable document proving birth. The onus is on you and the other "truthers" out there to prove that this birth certificate is anything other than genuine. So far, all I'm seeing is supposition and assumption - no facts.
goodnight kitten, sleep well
Meh, seriously, I want all those who ran for president to put their B/C's on public display or all laws are null and void!
And NOT a natural born citizen.
Please PubliusInfinitum... enlighten us. Tell us what's wrong with my sig and how Obama is not a natural born citizen.
