Public Schools, State-Neutrality & "Famous Christians In History" Class. A Cake Argument.

[Silhouette]

Emily gets the credit on inspiring this debate: Supremes Rule In Favor Of Baker She was ROCKING IT over on that thread on that page and the couple pages preceding it.

News to Moonglow:
People have preferences of behavior and discriminate all the time.
If you are biased negative towards religion, you are biased also...
.....Isn't it unfair that nonchristians would sue to remove Christian references from schools and

public institutions, then "complain" when LGBT beliefs and biases can't be forced on anyone either?

​

The USSC as you probably already know has ruled that a government cannot elevate one set of lifestyle ideals over another. If it punishes Christians in the marketplace for refusing to promote gay lifestyles in marriage, then it must also punish gay merchants for refusing to make products with messages they disagree with that Christians want.

I get what they're saying: they can't give ideological preference to any lifestyle being a government entity.

But has it ever occurred to folks that forcing public school kids to take a class called "Important Gays in History" is a violation of the neutrality mandate just handed down? Unless they make kids also take a class called "Famous Christians in History". But just try to make kids in school take that class and watch the steam blast out of ears.

And yet....
Teaching LGBT history complicated by historical figures who didn’t ‘out’ themselves

By next fall, millions of K-8 students in California schools may be learning from history textbooks that astronaut Sally Ride was a lesbian, Walt Whitman was gay, and a Gold Rush era stagecoach driver named Charley Parkhurst was born a woman, but lived as a man.

California earlier this month became the first state in the country to adopt textbooks that highlight the contributions of people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender to the development of the state and country.

From where I'm sitting, that ^^ isn't looking neutral AT ALL.

Let me change it up a bit to show you what I'm talking about:

By next fall, millions of K-8 students in California schools may be learning from history textbooks that astronaut Sally Ride was a Christian, Walt Whitman was Christian, and a Gold Rush era stagecoach driver named Charley Parkhurst was born atheist, but converted to Christian.

California earlier this month became the first state in the country to adopt textbooks that highlight the contributions of people who are Christian to the development of the state and country. ​

I think that needs to be the next lawsuit re: neutrality and the state. Immediately. Citing the baker vs Colorado case directly.

Discuss.

​

 

[rightwinger]

What a ridiculous thread

 

[Silhouette]

What a ridiculous thread

Why? Because it cites the recent USSC decision on states and neutrality re: ideology-lifestyles? I thought you would think so. Do you work for the city in Colorado recently admonished by any chance?

 

[Silhouette]

LEAVE THIS IN POLITICS WHERE IT BELONGS (REMOVE THE THREAD FROM "EDUCATION" DUNGEON.) As the moderators know, the emphasis of this topic is on NEUTRALITY in politics where government cannot elevate one ideology over another.

Emily gets the credit on inspiring this debate: Supremes Rule In Favor Of Baker She was ROCKING IT over on that thread on that page and the couple pages preceding it.

News to Moonglow:

People have preferences of behavior and discriminate all the time.

If you are biased negative towards religion, you are biased also...

.....Isn't it unfair that nonchristians would sue to remove Christian references from schools and public institutions, then "complain" when LGBT beliefs and biases can't be forced on anyone either?

The USSC as you probably already know has ruled that a government cannot elevate one set of lifestyle ideals over another. If it punishes Christians in the marketplace for refusing to promote gay lifestyles in marriage, then it must also punish gay merchants for refusing to make products with messages they disagree with that Christians want.

I get what they're saying: they can't give ideological preference to any lifestyle being a government entity.

But AS AN EXAMPLE OF JUST ONE OF MANY AREAS WHERE THE LGBT IS INSISTING THE PUBLIC BE INUNDATED WITH THEIR LIFESTYLE...has it ever occurred to folks that forcing public school kids to take a class called "Important Gays in History" is a violation of the neutrality mandate just handed down? Unless they make kids also take a class called "Famous Christians in History" with equal emphasis on their Christianity as important to the things they accomplished. But just try to make kids in school take that class and watch the heads spin around spewing green projectile vomit.

And yet....
Teaching LGBT history complicated by historical figures who didn’t ‘out’ themselves

By next fall, millions of K-8 students in California schools may be learning from history textbooks that astronaut Sally Ride was a lesbian, Walt Whitman was gay, and a Gold Rush era stagecoach driver named Charley Parkhurst was born a woman, but lived as a man.

California earlier this month became the first state in the country to adopt textbooks that highlight the contributions of people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender to the development of the state and country.

From where I'm sitting, that ^^ isn't looking neutral AT ALL.

Let me change it up a bit to show you what I'm talking about:

By next fall, millions of K-8 students in California schools may be learning from history textbooks that astronaut Sally Ride was a Christian, Walt Whitman was Christian, and a Gold Rush era stagecoach driver named Charley Parkhurst was born atheist, but converted to Christian.

California earlier this month became the first state in the country to adopt textbooks that highlight the contributions of people who are Christian to the development of the state and country.

I think that needs to be the next lawsuit re: neutrality and the state. Immediately. Citing the baker vs Colorado case directly. Attempts to chill this conversation won't make it go away.

Discuss.



​

 

[TheOldSchool]

The thing we're not talking about here, and that the MSM refuses to mention, is that Brown v. Board of Education abolished the rights of white Christians. So the OP obviously, according to the law, has no recourse. I suggest firing on Ft. Sumter as your best chance at reversing the direction of your country and making an America where not all are created equal.

 

[Moonglow]

Famous Christians have always been in history books so have gays but sometimes the lines are blurred on exactly what they be is..Because normally people don't flash those preferences publicly all the time.

 

[Silhouette]

Famous Christians have always been in history books so have gays but sometimes the lines are blurred on exactly what they be is..Because normally people don't flash those preferences publicly all the time.

Yes but you don't have textbooks in public schools that say "Famous Christians in History" on the cover, which emphasize their Christianity equally or above their actual accomplishments.

 

[Moonglow]

For centuries Christians have pretty much had it their way and I know yous guys are used to ruling the roost but with all things, in time those preferences and prejudices must or do change through external forces which change and elevate society to a new level of interpersonal relationship dynamics which replace the old with the new...

 

[Moonglow]

Famous Christians have always been in history books so have gays but sometimes the lines are blurred on exactly what they be is..Because normally people don't flash those preferences publicly all the time.

Yes but you don't have textbooks in public schools that say "Famous Christians in History" on the cover, which emphasize their Christianity equally or above their actual accomplishments.

Oh yes, they do at least the ones I have read do...

 

[Silhouette]

For centuries Christians have pretty much had it their way and I know yous guys are used to ruling the roost but with all things, in time those preferences and prejudices must or do change through external forces which change and elevate society to a new level of interpersonal relationship dynamics which replace the old with the new...

That is not how the USSC found in the baker vs Colorado case. Your argument appears to be "faith is passé' so public-neutrality doesn't apply in public schools". Good luck running that by the Supremes.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Actually, if Justice Kennedy retires at the end of the October 2017 term – which is likely to happen – the hate, bigotry, and stupidity of this thread’s premise will in a few years become the law of the land.

 

[Moonglow]

I would have never known about the Temperance movement which was a Christian movement along with women's suffrage and the overthrow of the male-dominated society if not for history class....Shall we go back to the patres familias social stigma yet again since yous guys are so conservative and the Bible tells women to walk behind their men and to stay barefoot and pregnant...
I don't remember anything in history about gays(queers) except how they were abused and ostracized by the good Christians...

 

[Moonglow]

For centuries Christians have pretty much had it their way and I know yous guys are used to ruling the roost but with all things, in time those preferences and prejudices must or do change through external forces which change and elevate society to a new level of interpersonal relationship dynamics which replace the old with the new...

That is not how the USSC found in the baker vs Colorado case. Your argument appears to be "faith is passé' so public-neutrality doesn't apply in public schools". Good luck running that by the Supremes.

I am not running anything past the USSC except a burning doobie.

 

[Moonglow]

I was raised a Baptist but no the fire and brimstone condemn everyone to hell preach from the corners Baptist. I am not unfamiliar with the Bible having had to memorize it in Sunday School and intensive research on scripture...But as Christ would say to you gay problems, "let those without sin cast the first stone".

 

[Silhouette]

.
I don't remember anything in history about gays(queers) except how they were abused and ostracized by the good Christians...

Applewhite's cult was shunned too by reasonable people. What's your point?

And actually I think it was Emily who said in her posts linked in the OP here that all she can remember is barroom thugs beating up gays. I've seen that myself, just after the gay guy kept making passes at a hetero guy he wanted to trick for the night; and clearly wasn't hearing the 'NO' as the answer. That's all I remember. Are you sure you're not mixing characters so your false narrative makes Christians look bad as a group? You know, prejudice wise, as a bigot against Christians as Emily called you out in her quote in the OP?

Muslims and Nazis are/were a bit more extreme. But the little ladies at the church picnics? Never saw any of them pick up their handbag and beat a gay lifestylist. I've heard them talking about how forbidden and foul the lifestyle is. But no beatings from them that I know of. Just some really good baked beans and scalloped potato recipes.

 

[Moonglow]

.
I don't remember anything in history about gays(queers) except how they were abused and ostracized by the good Christians...

Applewhite's cult was shunned too by reasonable people. What's your point?

And actually I think it was Emily who said in her posts linked in the OP here that all she can remember is barroom thugs beating up gays. I've seen that myself, just after the gay guy kept making passes at a hetero guy he wanted to trick for the night; and clearly wasn't hearing the 'NO' as the answer. That's all I remember. Are you sure you're not mixing characters so your false narrative makes Christians look bad as a group? You know, prejudice wise, as a bigot against Christians as Emily called you out in her quote in the OP?

Muslims and Nazis are/were a bit more extreme. But the little ladies at the church picnics? Never saw any of them pick up their handbag and beat a gay lifestylist. I've heard them talking about how forbidden and foul the lifestyle is. But no beatings from them that I know of. Just some really good baked beans and scalloped potato recipes.

I grew up in OKC, I knew guys that would act gay just to get gays to beat up and rob and a couple were close relations. I've seen even more during years of being the Scout's, athletics, military. I refuse to abuse any human that has done me no harm. I would never in my life lash out for what someone supposedly is or does that does not infringe on the rights of others. I am more about living in peace than extolling the virtues of hate and bigotry along with prejudice.
I do not hate the Christians I am very disappointed in their actions to be hateful, and oppressive, denying equal rights is not what Jesus was about. But yeah listen to the rhetorical dogma that Christ never spoke.
Enough said.

 

[Silhouette]

I grew up in OKC, I knew guys that would act gay just to get gays to beat up and rob and a couple were close relations. I've seen even more during years of being the Scout's, athletics, military. I refuse to abuse any human that has done me no harm. I would never in my life lash out for what someone supposedly is or does that does not infringe on the rights of others. I am more about living in peace than extolling the virtues of hate and bigotry along with prejudice.
I do not hate the Christians I am very disappointed in their actions to be hateful, and oppressive, denying equal rights is not what Jesus was about. But yeah listen to the rhetorical dogma that Christ never spoke.
.

Yes, right, thugs who disapprove of the gay lifestylists have beaten them. But I notice you didn't say Christians did. Assault is assault. Obviously anyone assaulting anyone else is because they hate them. Man assaulting woman. Woman assaulting man. Black assaulting white, and so on. Neighbor of any race, religion or gender assaulting neighbor of any race, religion or gender. All are assault born of hate.

Jesus' personal daily servant Jude reported that Jesus reminded him of one of the very mortal sins against God. And that was to assist the spread of homosexuality in any culture. To do so is to face eternal damnation. Read Jude 1 of the New Testament when you get a minute. Jesus didn't tell Christians to assault gays. He told them to "make a difference" in their lives. One that draws them closer to God's plan and away from their sin. Which was consistent with the rest of his witnessed passages in the New Testament.

 

[Silhouette]

Actually, if Justice Kennedy retires at the end of the October 2017 term – which is likely to happen – the hate, bigotry, and stupidity of this thread’s premise will in a few years become the law of the land.

Actually technically right now public schools cannot force kids to take a course called "important gays in history" anymore than they can force them to take "important Christians in history".

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Threads merged. If you start another one, you'll be banned. Period.

Your constant state of outrage does not permit you to break the rules.

 

[Silhouette]

OK, I just put the link in my signature and will refer people frequently and often to this topic generally about state-neutrality in all areas; here in "Education".